Continuity on offense. This has obviously not gone to script. As a matter of fact, it has been an unmitigated disaster.
I'm not sure what we have with McAdoo. Did the front office hire McAdoo because they felt he had the chops to be a head coach, or did they want a caretaker for Eli's remaining years?
Reese has his work cut out for him on the personnel end. He damn well better figure out the OL, TE, and #2 WR at a minimum.
The question is, what does the front office do with the offensive coaching staff? Do they bring a real OC on board to run the west coast offense and call plays? I know they have Mike Sullivan, but from what I understand, he has not worked much in the WCO.
We said the same thing about "continuity" on the O-Line. If you're continuing poor play, that's not good.
Sorry...that's overly harsh. This team is 8-4. Has the offense performed up to expectations? No. But we're a legit 8-4 in a watered down NFL.
This game was decided by a handful of plays.
Maybe the offense looked better last year, because we were usually playing from behind, and had to take more chances....this defense keeps us in games this year, and that desperation from the offense is not there,,,,it just looks like it is asleep.....what is with all the short passes to OBj? Week after Week, the play calling is so conservative/vanilla....
Lots of times last year, I blamed the conservative play calling on TC.....it's starting to look like I was wrong about that....
The Giants ran the ball 13 times in this game.
Sorry...that's overly harsh. This team is 8-4. Has the offense performed up to expectations? No. But we're a legit 8-4 in a watered down NFL.
This game was decided by a handful of plays.
We can debate that comment, but what are your thoughts about the meat of the post?
Maybe the offense looked better last year, because we were usually playing from behind, and had to take more chances....this defense keeps us in games this year, and that desperation from the offense is not there,,,,it just looks like it is asleep.....what is with all the short passes to OBj? Week after Week, the play calling is so conservative/vanilla....
Lots of times last year, I blamed the conservative play calling on TC.....it's starting to look like I was wrong about that....
The Giants have been one of the least penalized teams in the NFL this year. Turnovers were an issue early but have not been during the win streak. Let's not embellish.
Offensive line
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Or play 2. Run up the middle or throw to Beckham. The one time they changed things up a bit they scored a TD
The Giants ran the ball 13 times in this game.
So mostly play 2. This a sad, poorly coached, boring offense. If Eli doesn't play lights out, they will have trouble scoring 20 points.
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"unmitigated disaster"?
Sorry...that's overly harsh. This team is 8-4. Has the offense performed up to expectations? No. But we're a legit 8-4 in a watered down NFL.
This game was decided by a handful of plays.
We can debate that comment, but what are your thoughts about the meat of the post?
I think the meat of your post is off.
Very few of us thought the Giants would be 8-4 at the 12-game mark. The defense has played better than expected and the offense worse. Why? One could argue that McAdoo is doing too much (HC and play-caller)... or Mike Sullivan is not a good fit (he is not a WCO coach)... or our OL is not good enough... or Cruz is done... or Shepard - while a decent rookie season - was hyped too much... or the backs are ordinary... or the tight ends are ordinary... etc., etc.
But we're 8-4. McAdoo has a lot to do with that.
He is learning on job. Mara brought in
Because he is cheap. He is not winning
By offense so any orher teams fires him..
Not Mara. Eli ismt roght qb for this
System. ..they took 2 time SB winner
And change his footwork
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In comment 13248774 Eric from BBI said:
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"unmitigated disaster"?
Sorry...that's overly harsh. This team is 8-4. Has the offense performed up to expectations? No. But we're a legit 8-4 in a watered down NFL.
This game was decided by a handful of plays.
We can debate that comment, but what are your thoughts about the meat of the post?
I think the meat of your post is off.
Very few of us thought the Giants would be 8-4 at the 12-game mark. The defense has played better than expected and the offense worse. Why? One could argue that McAdoo is doing too much (HC and play-caller)... or Mike Sullivan is not a good fit (he is not a WCO coach)... or our OL is not good enough... or Cruz is done... or Shepard - while a decent rookie season - was hyped too much... or the backs are ordinary... or the tight ends are ordinary... etc., etc.
But we're 8-4. McAdoo has a lot to do with that.
Not sure why you say the premise of my post was off. You addressed the two major points. One is you feel McAdoo is doing well as the HC; is possibly doing too much; and maybe Sullivan needs to be replaced.
One could argue that the Giants are playing above their heads right now due to coaching. Others would disagree.
Very few thought this would be an 8-4 team. We don't shoot ourselves in the foot a lot (few penalties, turnovers trending down, solid defense).
Is it the coaching that they can't run the ball or throw to the TE? I wouldn't say that.
There may be an issue with coaching, but it's common for fans to blame the coaches after a loss. I heard it with Perkins, Parcells, Handley, Reeves, Fassel, Coughlin.
The game today? A play here or there and this is a much different game. The pick at the end zone was a killer. Even look at the 3rd-and-17 conversion. Or the 4th down attempts.
I would be more likely to blame personnel if they weren't getting shut down by some of the worst defenses in the league, when you have one of the top WRs in the game and one of the best QBs.
Is it the coaching that they can't run the ball or throw to the TE? I wouldn't say that.
If a HC doesn't believe his team needs a FB to block for his runner than it very well could be a coaching problem.
As I stated before from Paul Dottino reports when he was asked after Johnson got hurt and confirmed by Carl Banks on the Joe and Evans show this past Friday. This HC is opposed to adding a FB to the roster.
I don't get the angst. A road loss to a good team after winning six straight is no reason to be making broad based declarations about the state of the team.
Sorry...that's overly harsh. This team is 8-4. Has the offense performed up to expectations? No. But we're a legit 8-4 in a watered down NFL.
This game was decided by a handful of plays.
The wins have been decided by a few plays too. See the team's points scored differential.
The offense isn't good, even with a top 3 WR and Eli. It's been the above average defense that's carried the team.
He would have been eviscerated. That's not even in doubt.
Would have been a meltdown and unbearable to read.
This is his O Sullivan is not at fault. The Mara Tisch clan fell in love w this guy for no apparent reason. Wow he can install the WCO offense. Gee no one else could have done that.
What was needed to be done if they wanted to fire those responsible for the last 3 yeas was fire the whole FO, staff and have ownership step back and stop fucking sticking their noses into player and coaching decisions. Chris Mara is no different than Jerry Jones Dude has no fucking reason to have that job.
Hire a real VP of football operations and let him hire the FO and coaches Ownership here is a prime example of people than winning the DNA lottery and think that made them experts in this field.
McAdoo is in over his head. the only reason they are 8-4 is the D. Reese went out and got more talent and Spags runs that whole show. Wish they let him go to the Eagles
Mara and Tisch may ne great guys but they are the reason this team wont find greater success for a while if they don't remove themselves. My guess is they wont.
I would be more likely to blame personnel if they weren't getting shut down by some of the worst defenses in the league, when you have one of the top WRs in the game and one of the best QBs.
Maybe it's time for People to stop thinking we have one of the best qbs. We can still win with Eli but he's not the Eli of 2011 anymore. That guy doesnt exist anymore. He needs more help around him to get the best out of him where he used to get the best out of those around him.
I agree. Makes no sense.
I get having the best on the field, but come on, mix things up just for the sake of making the defense switch their personnel and force an error.
When we put the same 11 guys on the field, the down and distance dictates the defense and the opposition doesn't even have to think about it.
I guess they gave up on the position and decided there was no more fullbacks in this world or at least in our lifetime. Que sera sera.
I know exactly what they anticipated out of Johnson. He was their first FA and it was McAdoo that kept correcting the media that they would be listing him as a TE not a FB. I highly doubt that Whitlock would have made this team. McAdoo was talking about using two TE sets before Whitlock got hurt. It was going to be Johnson and Donnell in those two TE sets and Johnson on running plays.
None of this explains why come the Giants said F it after pre-season broke concerning the FB position. Let's just roll with Tye. He is not a FB.
Also this was one of my primary concern before the start of the season when I heard Paul Dot reports about the whole issue.
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In comment 13248774 Eric from BBI said:
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"unmitigated disaster"?
Sorry...that's overly harsh. This team is 8-4. Has the offense performed up to expectations? No. But we're a legit 8-4 in a watered down NFL.
This game was decided by a handful of plays.
We can debate that comment, but what are your thoughts about the meat of the post?
I think the meat of your post is off.
Very few of us thought the Giants would be 8-4 at the 12-game mark. The defense has played better than expected and the offense worse. Why? One could argue that McAdoo is doing too much (HC and play-caller)... or Mike Sullivan is not a good fit (he is not a WCO coach)... or our OL is not good enough... or Cruz is done... or Shepard - while a decent rookie season - was hyped too much... or the backs are ordinary... or the tight ends are ordinary... etc., etc.
But we're 8-4. McAdoo has a lot to do with that.
Really. Why? His great offense? I'd fire him right now and put in Norv Turner if I was the owner. He was the most unqualified candidate they interviewed. He literally has zero to do w the D and that sore of the ball is a huge reason for the 8-4 record. I don't see anything this guys does that's impressive. Wow. He installed a short passing game and a shorter drops. Damn Bill Walsh was nothinf compared to this guy
I'd love to know what exactly what he's done differently than TC that's made this team 8-4? If TC was still coaching I'm not sure the record is any different
The Donnell seam pass was a stupid call. I'll conceed that. It's the one route Donnell can do well. He hadn't been playing. When he went into the game, the Steelers were ready for him. Timmons suckered Eli. There was no window . It was first down . There was no pass rush. Throw the ball into the ground in front of Donnell. Then call two sneaks for goodness sakes. Take a 3. Instead the Steelers take it back the other way . They get a touchdown. Big swing .
Shepard is wide open for a touchdown on the play that Mitchell levels Tye. Wide open. Score. The Cowboys are getting near perfect play at QB from a fourth-round draft choice. Yeah they have a great line. They had the same line last year and went 3-13.
Admittedly McAdoo's luck ran out going for it on fourth down. Three times came up empty. Probably the last two decisions should have been FGAs, then you're down one score late in the game. Regardless , the HC has had them ready. Why the regression on offense ? Look no farther than the QB. It's as simple as that.
I wish you and yours a joyful Holiday Season.
What would the Giants record be if Coughlin was still the head coach? I doubt it would be better and it may very well have been worse. It depends on how much you think Coughlin was "losing it."
But I'm a bit wary of blaming the coaches right now. We're 8-4 with subpar play at many positions on offense.
Last year, almost everyone on this site - including me - thought Spags was horrible. Give him some good players and...
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Has it been established that the Giants "lost out" on Philbin?
Or did management nix him in favor of Sullivan, someone with organizational ties?
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My gut tells me what I said a few weeks ago... I think losing out on Philbin was a bigger blow than we may realize. My gut says Sullivan is not an ideal match with McAdoo.
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Has it been established that the Giants "lost out" on Philbin?
Or did management nix him in favor of Sullivan, someone with organizational ties?
Coughlin brought back Sullivan. Mara nixed Coughlin two years ago bringing back Sullivan to replace Gilbride. They can sell everyone on the narrative that McAdoo was Mara's hire all they want but everyone who has been following the Giants know that McAdoo was a Mara hire. Sullivan was unemployed when Coughlin went looking for a new QB coach last year.
Even if not Philbin, they clearly should have found someone with roots close to this offense to help McAdoo out in his first year, at least as a better resource even if not as a play caller. Instead they chose to be petty and/or delusional and are now probably paying for it.
But I'm a bit wary of blaming the coaches right now. We're 8-4 with subpar play at many positions on offense.
Last year, almost everyone on this site - including me - thought Spags was horrible. Give him some good players and...
Subpar play at many positions is an indictment on the coaching staff. They aren't using their weapons out there. Struggling against the worst defenses in football. This isn't personnel. This is bad coaching/scheming. One week no targets for Shepherd. The next week none for Cruz. Even when Veeren was healthy they weren't using him effectively.
There are some big warning signs here with Mcadoo. Either all these new position coaches aren't meshing. Or he's over his head. This team could only score one TD against the friggin Saints at home.
8-4 is because of this defense. You can make the case they won the Rams, Bears, and Saints games
Sorry...that's overly harsh. This team is 8-4. Has the offense performed up to expectations? No. But we're a legit 8-4 in a watered down NFL.
This game was decided by a handful of plays.
Sorry, they are not a "legit" 8-3 now "8-4" as proven yesterday. Sorry not true
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This is a team that is getting shut down by some of the worst defenses in the league. This looks like a bad staff. At least offensively. Eli has been bad. The offense has regressed badly from last season.
I would be more likely to blame personnel if they weren't getting shut down by some of the worst defenses in the league, when you have one of the top WRs in the game and one of the best QBs.
Maybe it's time for People to stop thinking we have one of the best qbs. We can still win with Eli but he's not the Eli of 2011 anymore. That guy doesnt exist anymore. He needs more help around him to get the best out of him where he used to get the best out of those around him.
Unfortunately, this.