You look at 8-3 on paper and you can't help but be excited. I mean, after the way things have gone since 4 years ago, every single one of us would have jumped for joy about the prospect of being 8-3 through 11 games. How could you not?
That said.. if you've watched the Giants this year, there's one thing that's pretty clear. The offense is an issue. It's a major issue and it's the reason why we're not quite ready to contend.
The good news is that the defense is legit. This is a real, playoff-caliber NFL defense now. And the players that were acquired are not stopgaps. Janoris Jenkins is not a stopgap, Olivier Vernon is not a stopgap, Damon Harrison is not a stopgap. These are players who are still in their prime and are going to be here. Landon Collins is becoming an elite safety. Eli Apple is showing signs of becoming a legitimate NFL CB. Big Hank is very good. Yeah, the LB corps is a little suspect but we're getting there.
Anyway... my point is. The 2016 Giants are a significant improvement over the 2013, 2014 and 2015 versions.. but they're not ready to make a serious run this year.
I think we'll wind up 10-6. I have no idea how we'll get there.. but I think that's where we'll end up. If it's good enough to punch a WC ticket, awesome. Not sure it will be.. but if it is, great. I don't think the offense is "broken" but I think it needs a good amount of work and I don't think it'll be good enough at any point this season to make the Giants a contender.
We're close, though. A few tweaks/upgrades and this team can be a SB contender in 2017-18. We just have to be realistic about this team. I'll be rooting and hoping for the best.. but my rational side knows we're not quite there.
but the fact we're sitting here saying we may not have a starting caliber RB, we have no clue what we have behind OBJ at WR, we may not have a starting caliber TE, and the OL is still an area of need...it comes into question...how? how do we have so many needs on that side of the ball despite the amount of attention its received in recent years (this past offseason spending spree notwithstanding). and we have a QB that is getting no younger...
it just seems like there are so many pieces missing from the offense and yet this same unit was humming last year with Randle as the #2 WR and our return specialist as the #3 WR. something just seems off.
You expect first (and maybe 2nd) rounders to approach Pro Bowl (on merit, not fan popularity) worthy play. Beckham is a given, obviously. Pugh didn't ever play at a high level until this year, his 2nd playing a different position. But Sy'56 questions Richburg's long term viability at C and Flowers is a disaster after 28 games at LT. When you aren't sure of guys at the 2 most important spots on the OL, who were picked #9 and 43, that's a major problem.
I completely agree with you on this. I think we're undermanned to a degree but I don't think that should mean that we have to run this many plays out of the same formation. Take the TD to Jennings for example.. it wasn't necessarily a "trick" play, but it was a changeup and it was executed to perfection.
There are so many different looks you can show and we are constantly in 11 out of the gun. We never bunch the WR's on one side... we barely ever use 4 WR or empty backfield. I don't really understand it.
I feel very good about where we are right now. I just wish the offense was playing better. But the OL hasn't stepped it up. Cruz may be done. Shepard was over-hyped by his teammates. The tight ends and running backs are bleh.
If this team finishes 10-6, I will be pleasantly surprised.
Exactly this... Like i told me dad.. they fixed the defense this year.. next year they fix the offense
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9:45 pm : link : reply
consensus on BBI before the season was that this was a 7-9 to 9-7 team.
You are correct....after 3 losing seasons, 9-7 would be looked at as a great season......but not after you are 8-3....that would mean that you finished 1-4, when games really mattered....
I'm not saying they are going to finish 1-4, but it could happen....
As for Eli, I agree with others, that too many people think Eli, can perform like 2011 Eli....that Eli that could overcome a poor OL, poor running game, and a defense that gave up more points than the offense scored.....That Eli doesn't exist anymore......5 seasons of bad OL's have had an effect on him, whether he wants to admit it or not....
That first int, is case in point.....when you have first or second down, and you are throwing the ball in that situation, if the clock in your head says get rid of it, you don't throw the ball unless the guy is wide open, OR you throw the ball only where your receiver has a chance to catch it.....not doing so is a rookie mistake, and not something you expect from a veteran franchise qb...if either scenario is not there you throw it away, and you line up for the next attempt.....that was a mental error on Eli's part....the defensive player made a good play on a ball he shouldn't have been able to touch, and Eli helped him out, by staring his receiver down, again....
Yes, Eli has a bad OL...he has no running game...his TE's are inconsistent....but if he throws that ball only where Donnell can catch it, it's a different ball game....maybe 2011 Eli makes the throw, 2015 Eli didn't....
Quote:
is the 2nd best weapon on the offense. Ideally he shouldn't be (nothing against him), but he is. Getting him back will be huge.
Is it huge or just confusing? Palmer has been explosive. Now he sits? Now Vereen comes in and Jennings gets his carries?
Why would it be confusing? Vereen is the 3rd down back. I like Perkins but he doesn't have the receiving skills, vision, or quickness in short space that vereen has. Vereen was solid as a pass blocker as well, not sure how perkins is holding up.
results ...? Mac seems robotic to me and some of the plays
are close to getting guys killed because the defense has such
a beat on everything we run . Eli looks scared shitliss and
never has time to get to all the reads hence Cruz no
targets . Last Week it was Shepard . The TE's don't
get much use either .
I feel very good about where we are right now. I just wish the offense was playing better. But the OL hasn't stepped it up. Cruz may be done. Shepard was over-hyped by his teammates. The tight ends and running backs are bleh.
If this team finishes 10-6, I will be pleasantly surprised.
They are 8-4. Let's go here.
Quote:
consensus on BBI before the season was that this was a 7-9 to 9-7 team.
I feel very good about where we are right now. I just wish the offense was playing better. But the OL hasn't stepped it up. Cruz may be done. Shepard was over-hyped by his teammates. The tight ends and running backs are bleh.
If this team finishes 10-6, I will be pleasantly surprised.
bullshit. There was a significant and noisy contingent who thought this was a playoff team last season- before the 200 million spend, the axing of starters, the return of Cruz, and the renovation of the coaching staff. The playoffs this season was supposed to be a sure thing. Now we get these maudlin excuse and revisionist history threads, whining about refs, and crying about the o-line.
They are 8-4. Let's go here.
Not sure what you mean - that noisy contingent is the one burying McAdoo for today's performance.
The rest, the ones who were saying that Coughlin should not be dismissed and that the team was still deficient on talent, were all pretty adamant that the team was still another year away, with too many holes to fill in one season.
So the reaction is pretty much consistent with what we had heard before the season, just not a consensus of any sort.
Their margin for error is slim most weeks, the Steelers were desperate and wanted this game more. Toss in some sizable inconsistent officiating and ...
You are what your record says you are, at least according to many here. I was told repeatedly during our 4 last play losses last year(despite having the world's worst D) that easily could have resulted in a 10-6 record for us, that "you are what your record says you are." But not this year, because it favors one's point?
We're 8-4, with holes like the vast majority of teams with worse records, in a parity league and have as good a chance as anyone in these watered down conferences..There's Dallas and tge Pats..Haven't seen the Raiders and possibly Seattle who have played like dog shit much of the year even in victory..
And, when you have an OL that's precarious to begin with and add on top of that injuries to your starters which kill continuity and meshing, you're going to have problems. Many teams are suffering from this..
JPP's injury if severe could be problematical, but per usual, I'm willing to wait and see how that plays out..
We've got enough talent to win 10 or more games this season, let's see if the team is able to raise its game to another level.
We've got enough talent to win 10 or more games this season, let's see if the team is able to raise its game to another level.
Hearing anything on Pugh's real progress?
Good post, arcarsenal.
At last count there are 24 teams with worse records, some of whom lead their divisions, who have built whatever wins THEY HAVE against other shitty teams. That's today's NFL..
By the end of the next 4 games we shall see where we are of course, but to say we're not contenders, is folly imv..I will still take my chances with Eli and company AND a pretty good D(JPP injury could hurt) to be there come playoff time..
If we don't have Beckham involved, our offense is dead in the water. We can't make teams pay for taking away Beckham.
No consistent run game, two smallish slot style receivers (one of which can't get any separation), no credible TE threat.
Outside of Beckham, we can't stretch the field. Getting Pugh back isn't going to change that, IMO. Those problems were there when the offensive line was full "strength", and I use the term "strength" extremely loosely.
The Giants offense is flawed right now. It's not good enough to make a playoff run. Maybe things will suddenly click but I just don't see it.
Until proven differently, the records say we are in the thick of the fight despite the O crapping the bed more than we'd like..So suddenly, because it fits a possible agenda, the records are no longer "who the records say we are?"
We don't know what will happen at the end of the 4 remaining games. Maybe we'll win all 4, maybe we'll lose all 4, but as of right now, we are what our record says we are as are the other 31 teams. You can point out where we are deficient and that's fine, but you can't emphatically say we are NOT contenders, because the records, as of now, say we are.
I don't know how you'd watch the Seahawks and think the Giants are in their league right now. They are better defensively and have a far superior offense, too. They would dismantle us.
I don't know how you'd watch the Seahawks and think the Giants are in their league right now. They are better defensively and have a far superior offense, too. They would dismantle us.
Oh please, the Seahawks have shit the bed plenty this year
I'm happy to have an 8-4 record, but as an indication of how good we are? It's a mirage. All we've heard about for the past week is how the Giants 6 wins in a row have come against teams that had a combined 14 points. That we were frauds. And we went out and proved them right.
And it's not because we lost. It's because we weren't competitive, and that's been the case in almost all the losses offensively except the Redskins.
Green Bay, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh, all teams with worse records than the Giants, the offense was non competitive.
It's a problem.
Flawed teams can have fun resurgent seasons. Just saying. This doesn't have to be a boom or bust mentality around here but fans are losing their shit after the the first NYG loss in 7 weeks.
Rally at home the next two weeks.
Giants are still learning how to win in the NFL, and they weren't up to the task of the Steelers brand of intensity yesterday. That's the next hurdle for this team.
I'm happy to have an 8-4 record, but as an indication of how good we are? It's a mirage. All we've heard about for the past week is how the Giants 6 wins in a row have come against teams that had a combined 14 points. That we were frauds. And we went out and proved them right.
And it's not because we lost. It's because we weren't competitive, and that's been the case in almost all the losses offensively except the Redskins.
Green Bay, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh, all teams with worse records than the Giants, the offense was non competitive.
It's a problem.
You're so dramatic. If this team wins 10 games and makes the playoffs, are you really going to complain?
Everyone knows the O needs work. We knew it before the season.
This team could go 16-0 and BBI would bitch about something.
Am I happy at the way the offense has been playing? Hell no, but I'm sure as shit not going to complain about an 8-4 record.
Quote:
I also believe we'll have an ending similar to the ending of the 2005 season, when we were also "contenders", when our deficiencies will get exposed by teams that are more consistent than what we've played in the regular season.
I'm happy to have an 8-4 record, but as an indication of how good we are? It's a mirage. All we've heard about for the past week is how the Giants 6 wins in a row have come against teams that had a combined 14 points. That we were frauds. And we went out and proved them right.
And it's not because we lost. It's because we weren't competitive, and that's been the case in almost all the losses offensively except the Redskins.
Green Bay, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh, all teams with worse records than the Giants, the offense was non competitive.
It's a problem.
You're so dramatic. If this team wins 10 games and makes the playoffs, are you really going to complain?
Everyone knows the O needs work. We knew it before the season.
This team could go 16-0 and BBI would bitch about something.
Am I happy at the way the offense has been playing? Hell no, but I'm sure as shit not going to complain about an 8-4 record.
It's not dramatic. It's realistic?
Everybody knew the O needed work before the season? Revisionist history. While not perfect, it was believed that the O was doing enough, based on the last two years, to win games with an improved defense.
If you're saying you called the major regression of the offense, I'm calling bullshit on you.
Flawed teams can have fun resurgent seasons. Just saying. This doesn't have to be a boom or bust mentality around here but fans are losing their shit after the the first NYG loss in 7 weeks.
Rally at home the next two weeks.
That's how I felt going into the season, if they can get
to 10 wins, and make the playoffs...I'll take it.
They are not true contenders, yes we know their unusual
history in the last decade, but just enjoy the nostalgia.
You can't get to Point D, without getting to Point A.
I mean this in the playoff sense, and I wish this organization would talk playoffs earlier in the season,
when you can't even accomplish that. New coach, I know,
but talk playoffs first, then worry about a Super Bowl if you get that far!
I would like Mac as a second year coach to put his 'mark'
on this coaching staff. Bring in a "real" OC, sorry
Mike Sullivan doesn't make me warm & fuzzy. Just a Coughlin crony, as I mentioned a couple days ago, KG, JR. and Quinn
can go as well, pretty obvious to me at least.
I don't know how you'd watch the Seahawks and think the Giants are in their league right now. They are better defensively and have a far superior offense, too. They would dismantle us.
I felt bad for Earl Thomas yesterday, like that guy.
That team plays with an attitude, win or lose.
Quote:
In comment 13249465 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I also believe we'll have an ending similar to the ending of the 2005 season, when we were also "contenders", when our deficiencies will get exposed by teams that are more consistent than what we've played in the regular season.
I'm happy to have an 8-4 record, but as an indication of how good we are? It's a mirage. All we've heard about for the past week is how the Giants 6 wins in a row have come against teams that had a combined 14 points. That we were frauds. And we went out and proved them right.
And it's not because we lost. It's because we weren't competitive, and that's been the case in almost all the losses offensively except the Redskins.
Green Bay, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh, all teams with worse records than the Giants, the offense was non competitive.
It's a problem.
You're so dramatic. If this team wins 10 games and makes the playoffs, are you really going to complain?
Everyone knows the O needs work. We knew it before the season.
This team could go 16-0 and BBI would bitch about something.
Am I happy at the way the offense has been playing? Hell no, but I'm sure as shit not going to complain about an 8-4 record.
It's not dramatic. It's realistic?
Everybody knew the O needed work before the season? Revisionist history. While not perfect, it was believed that the O was doing enough, based on the last two years, to win games with an improved defense.
If you're saying you called the major regression of the offense, I'm calling bullshit on you.
I'm not saying I called a regression on O. I thought (and still think) they should be better.
But- the OL is still an issue and they need a TE & WR.
And- they are 8-4. Call me crazy, but I'll just enjoy the rest of the season, and re-assess in the offseason.
I was one of those secretly hoping that the offense would straighten out to middle of the pack, and that a strong defense could let us make some noise. It doesn't look like the offense is strengthening in any way, in fact, it's probably the opposite. That puts us soundly into 'wait til next year' territory.
The only time the Giants ever told the fans directly that they were going to win anything was Reese's unfortunate Super Bowl count-down calendar. He'll never make that mistake again.
My motto: "Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."-- author unknown.
The only time the Giants ever told the fans directly that they were going to win anything was Reese's unfortunate Super Bowl count-down calendar. He'll never make that mistake again.
My motto: "Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."-- author unknown.
My expectation was that the offense was as good as last year, if not a little better.
Frankly, I'm shocked at how poorly they've played this year, as well as shocked at how poorly some of the games have been called offensively. What the hell happened?
If we had last year's offense, this team would be very good right now, and fully capable of a deep playoff run.
The only time the Giants ever told the fans directly that they were going to win anything was Reese's unfortunate Super Bowl count-down calendar. He'll never make that mistake again.
My motto: "Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."-- author unknown.
If you want to get technical, every team's goal is to win
the SB. Personally I wasn't just talking about the HC,
it's just the mindset with this organization.
How 'bout they make the fucking playoffs for a change,
works for me. I don't live in past glories, some fans do.
I stay in present tense watching this organization nowadays.
I'm just calling it as I see it.
I think people who feel this team is a contender are likely to be disappointed because the offensive deficiencies are a legitimate issue.
Like I said.. as it stands now, I expect 10-6 and hopefully a wild card. But once we get in, I don't know how far we'll get.
This season has been a step in the right direction. But we still have a little ways to go. I get it, people don't like to admit that maybe this isn't the year because it takes a lot of the air out of things.. that's fine. I just have to be realistic with myself when I watch this team. I think they're solid. I don't think they're a contender.
I'd sure love to be wrong.
Quote:
shouldn't your thread start have come at the END of the year, instead of with 4 games remaining? 4 winnable games, I might add, or 3 if you think there's little chance we beat Dallas
I'm just calling it as I see it.
I think people who feel this team is a contender are likely to be disappointed because the offensive deficiencies are a legitimate issue.
Like I said.. as it stands now, I expect 10-6 and hopefully a wild card. But once we get in, I don't know how far we'll get.
This season has been a step in the right direction. But we still have a little ways to go. I get it, people don't like to admit that maybe this isn't the year because it takes a lot of the air out of things.. that's fine. I just have to be realistic with myself when I watch this team. I think they're solid. I don't think they're a contender.
I'd sure love to be wrong.
My thoughts exactly. It was a 2 year process going into the season and right now this team has met my expectations more or less (exceeded it on defense, underperformed on offense). I knew a retooling of the O-line would've been necessary. Might need another threat at WR/TE as well.
Power run game is the biggest need. Red zone threats are the 2nd. Need better LBs too, but I think the defense is good enough to carry this team as is.
Quote:
I also believe we'll have an ending similar to the ending of the 2005 season, when we were also "contenders", when our deficiencies will get exposed by teams that are more consistent than what we've played in the regular season.
I'm happy to have an 8-4 record, but as an indication of how good we are? It's a mirage. All we've heard about for the past week is how the Giants 6 wins in a row have come against teams that had a combined 14 points. That we were frauds. And we went out and proved them right.
And it's not because we lost. It's because we weren't competitive, and that's been the case in almost all the losses offensively except the Redskins.
Green Bay, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh, all teams with worse records than the Giants, the offense was non competitive.
It's a problem.
You're so dramatic. If this team wins 10 games and makes the playoffs, are you really going to complain?
Everyone knows the O needs work. We knew it before the season.
This team could go 16-0 and BBI would bitch about something.
Am I happy at the way the offense has been playing? Hell no, but I'm sure as shit not going to complain about an 8-4 record.
I keep hoping it's going to show up, too.. but we have to get to a point where we realize this is more or less what the offense is this year. I don't foresee it magically just taking a major step forward. Yes, I think we will have some games where we perform better.. but the issues aren't going to disappear until we have another offseason to address them.
Quote:
But, the reason so many are optimistic or expecting playoffs or whatever, is that this offense has done more with less talent the previous 2 seasons. Yes, they also had warts. But, they routinely gained more yards per game and scored much more points per game. So, each week, we expect the real Eli led WCO to show up and drop 30 on someone, anyone.
I keep hoping it's going to show up, too.. but we have to get to a point where we realize this is more or less what the offense is this year. I don't foresee it magically just taking a major step forward. Yes, I think we will have some games where we perform better.. but the issues aren't going to disappear until we have another offseason to address them.
That said, I think a big part of the problem is McAdoo calling the plays. He seems to be out of his element as the HC while still calling the offense. The offense has lacked flow as a result. This hasn't been the same offense he called the 2 prior years. So, either he was a really shitty OC who was simply calling plays given to him, or his approach changed when he became HC.
I don't think this team is all that far off. I also think the loss of Pugh is much bigger than most here. I'm disappointed in all loses, of course, but if the team makes the playoffs this is a successful season in my book.
We therefore often give up on a running game, that though it it looks like shit at times, never gets much of a chance to get going. The few times it has gotten going, it looks pretty good.
The stats seem to reflect this. We just need a little more consistency in the run blocking and our defense is not as great as a lot of people seem to think. It's barely better than middle of the road, on balance. At times, it has looked pretty good, especially since the first few games. But it isn't anything even close to being "great." Saying that, I am very pleased at how the D has taken positive steps this year.
But our LBs have been mostly horrible for 10 years. I understand the focus on DEs and CBs given a 4-3 and all the nickle packages, but really, have we had one LB whose jersey you would want to wear in at least 5 or even 10 years ? I can't think of anyone.