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The Giants created semi-unrealistic expectations this year

arcarsenal : 12/4/2016 9:22 pm
You look at 8-3 on paper and you can't help but be excited. I mean, after the way things have gone since 4 years ago, every single one of us would have jumped for joy about the prospect of being 8-3 through 11 games. How could you not?

That said.. if you've watched the Giants this year, there's one thing that's pretty clear. The offense is an issue. It's a major issue and it's the reason why we're not quite ready to contend.

The good news is that the defense is legit. This is a real, playoff-caliber NFL defense now. And the players that were acquired are not stopgaps. Janoris Jenkins is not a stopgap, Olivier Vernon is not a stopgap, Damon Harrison is not a stopgap. These are players who are still in their prime and are going to be here. Landon Collins is becoming an elite safety. Eli Apple is showing signs of becoming a legitimate NFL CB. Big Hank is very good. Yeah, the LB corps is a little suspect but we're getting there.

Anyway... my point is. The 2016 Giants are a significant improvement over the 2013, 2014 and 2015 versions.. but they're not ready to make a serious run this year.

I think we'll wind up 10-6. I have no idea how we'll get there.. but I think that's where we'll end up. If it's good enough to punch a WC ticket, awesome. Not sure it will be.. but if it is, great. I don't think the offense is "broken" but I think it needs a good amount of work and I don't think it'll be good enough at any point this season to make the Giants a contender.

We're close, though. A few tweaks/upgrades and this team can be a SB contender in 2017-18. We just have to be realistic about this team. I'll be rooting and hoping for the best.. but my rational side knows we're not quite there.
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.....  
Micko : 12/4/2016 10:29 pm : link
I also disagree with people about Eli. He is playing well enough for the Giants to win and is moving around in the pocket so well that it's covering up the shitty OT play.
Arc, absolutely.  
robbieballs2003 : 12/4/2016 10:33 pm : link
I have brought this up before. In the NFL, you need to have multiple ways to attack. Football has been around too long and coaches are too smart. You cannot go with tge Vince Lombardi mentality in today's NFL and just say if we execute what we do then nobody can stop us. When you have legitimately like 3 run plays then teams are going to take away those three plays. When you line up in 11 personnel 90 something percent of the time you are making it too easy for opposing defenses. You should have your top formations and top plays but you need to be able to give different looks. One advantage that offenses have is the more you put on film the better advantage you have. What I meam by that is there is limited practice time so of you only have a few running plays and a few formations then defenses are going to be extremely well prepared to face you. I get that we don't have great TEs. I get that our OL is limited but that doesn't mean we cannot get more creative. How about putting Jennings and Perkins on the field at the same time? How about singing a FB? There are different ways we can approach this but I feel like McAdoo is going with that Lombardi mentality.
RE: what i think is most frustrating re; the offense is this:  
The_Boss : 12/4/2016 10:35 pm : link
In comment 13248917 TexasGmenFan said:
Quote:
for as much attention as the offense has gotten via the draft since the last super bowl (all our first round picks until Apple were offense) and a handful of second rounders were offense as well. obviously, the Wilson injury muddies things up a bit. Nicks breaking down didn't help matters either.

but the fact we're sitting here saying we may not have a starting caliber RB, we have no clue what we have behind OBJ at WR, we may not have a starting caliber TE, and the OL is still an area of need...it comes into question...how? how do we have so many needs on that side of the ball despite the amount of attention its received in recent years (this past offseason spending spree notwithstanding). and we have a QB that is getting no younger...

it just seems like there are so many pieces missing from the offense and yet this same unit was humming last year with Randle as the #2 WR and our return specialist as the #3 WR. something just seems off.


You expect first (and maybe 2nd) rounders to approach Pro Bowl (on merit, not fan popularity) worthy play. Beckham is a given, obviously. Pugh didn't ever play at a high level until this year, his 2nd playing a different position. But Sy'56 questions Richburg's long term viability at C and Flowers is a disaster after 28 games at LT. When you aren't sure of guys at the 2 most important spots on the OL, who were picked #9 and 43, that's a major problem.
I told you guys at the beginning of the season  
SHO'NUFF : 12/4/2016 10:38 pm : link
we would be in a world of hurt with John Jerry and Marshall Newhouse playing significant minutes for our club...and it rang true. Reese is at fault for sitting pat on the O-line personnel.
RE: Arc, absolutely.  
arcarsenal : 12/4/2016 10:38 pm : link
In comment 13248945 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
I have brought this up before. In the NFL, you need to have multiple ways to attack. Football has been around too long and coaches are too smart. You cannot go with tge Vince Lombardi mentality in today's NFL and just say if we execute what we do then nobody can stop us. When you have legitimately like 3 run plays then teams are going to take away those three plays. When you line up in 11 personnel 90 something percent of the time you are making it too easy for opposing defenses. You should have your top formations and top plays but you need to be able to give different looks. One advantage that offenses have is the more you put on film the better advantage you have. What I meam by that is there is limited practice time so of you only have a few running plays and a few formations then defenses are going to be extremely well prepared to face you. I get that we don't have great TEs. I get that our OL is limited but that doesn't mean we cannot get more creative. How about putting Jennings and Perkins on the field at the same time? How about singing a FB? There are different ways we can approach this but I feel like McAdoo is going with that Lombardi mentality.


I completely agree with you on this. I think we're undermanned to a degree but I don't think that should mean that we have to run this many plays out of the same formation. Take the TD to Jennings for example.. it wasn't necessarily a "trick" play, but it was a changeup and it was executed to perfection.

There are so many different looks you can show and we are constantly in 11 out of the gun. We never bunch the WR's on one side... we barely ever use 4 WR or empty backfield. I don't really understand it.
I don't know what is going on with Beatty  
robbieballs2003 : 12/4/2016 10:39 pm : link
But I would like to see some formations with 6 OL.
RE: the general  
blueblood : 12/4/2016 10:41 pm : link
In comment 13248836 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
consensus on BBI before the season was that this was a 7-9 to 9-7 team.

I feel very good about where we are right now. I just wish the offense was playing better. But the OL hasn't stepped it up. Cruz may be done. Shepard was over-hyped by his teammates. The tight ends and running backs are bleh.

If this team finishes 10-6, I will be pleasantly surprised.


Exactly this... Like i told me dad.. they fixed the defense this year.. next year they fix the offense
But Eric,  
Doomster : 12/4/2016 10:52 pm : link
the general
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9:45 pm : link : reply
consensus on BBI before the season was that this was a 7-9 to 9-7 team.

You are correct....after 3 losing seasons, 9-7 would be looked at as a great season......but not after you are 8-3....that would mean that you finished 1-4, when games really mattered....

I'm not saying they are going to finish 1-4, but it could happen....

As for Eli, I agree with others, that too many people think Eli, can perform like 2011 Eli....that Eli that could overcome a poor OL, poor running game, and a defense that gave up more points than the offense scored.....That Eli doesn't exist anymore......5 seasons of bad OL's have had an effect on him, whether he wants to admit it or not....

That first int, is case in point.....when you have first or second down, and you are throwing the ball in that situation, if the clock in your head says get rid of it, you don't throw the ball unless the guy is wide open, OR you throw the ball only where your receiver has a chance to catch it.....not doing so is a rookie mistake, and not something you expect from a veteran franchise qb...if either scenario is not there you throw it away, and you line up for the next attempt.....that was a mental error on Eli's part....the defensive player made a good play on a ball he shouldn't have been able to touch, and Eli helped him out, by staring his receiver down, again....

Yes, Eli has a bad OL...he has no running game...his TE's are inconsistent....but if he throws that ball only where Donnell can catch it, it's a different ball game....maybe 2011 Eli makes the throw, 2015 Eli didn't....
RE: RE: Shane Vereen  
giantsfan44ab : 12/4/2016 10:58 pm : link
In comment 13248913 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
In comment 13248886 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


is the 2nd best weapon on the offense. Ideally he shouldn't be (nothing against him), but he is. Getting him back will be huge.



Is it huge or just confusing? Palmer has been explosive. Now he sits? Now Vereen comes in and Jennings gets his carries?


Why would it be confusing? Vereen is the 3rd down back. I like Perkins but he doesn't have the receiving skills, vision, or quickness in short space that vereen has. Vereen was solid as a pass blocker as well, not sure how perkins is holding up.
Crazy  
Bluesbreaker : 12/4/2016 10:58 pm : link
Doing the same thing over an over expecting different
results ...? Mac seems robotic to me and some of the plays
are close to getting guys killed because the defense has such
a beat on everything we run . Eli looks scared shitliss and
never has time to get to all the reads hence Cruz no
targets . Last Week it was Shepard . The TE's don't
get much use either .
RE: the general  
HomerJones45 : 12/4/2016 11:35 pm : link
In comment 13248836 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
consensus on BBI before the season was that this was a 7-9 to 9-7 team.

I feel very good about where we are right now. I just wish the offense was playing better. But the OL hasn't stepped it up. Cruz may be done. Shepard was over-hyped by his teammates. The tight ends and running backs are bleh.

If this team finishes 10-6, I will be pleasantly surprised.
bullshit. There was a significant and noisy contingent who thought this was a playoff team last season- before the 200 million spend, the axing of starters, the return of Cruz, and the renovation of the coaching staff. The playoffs this season was supposed to be a sure thing. Now we get these maudlin excuse and revisionist history threads, whining about refs, and crying about the o-line.

They are 8-4. Let's go here.
RE: RE: the general  
jcn56 : 12/4/2016 11:37 pm : link
In comment 13249030 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13248836 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


consensus on BBI before the season was that this was a 7-9 to 9-7 team.

I feel very good about where we are right now. I just wish the offense was playing better. But the OL hasn't stepped it up. Cruz may be done. Shepard was over-hyped by his teammates. The tight ends and running backs are bleh.

If this team finishes 10-6, I will be pleasantly surprised.

bullshit. There was a significant and noisy contingent who thought this was a playoff team last season- before the 200 million spend, the axing of starters, the return of Cruz, and the renovation of the coaching staff. The playoffs this season was supposed to be a sure thing. Now we get these maudlin excuse and revisionist history threads, whining about refs, and crying about the o-line.

They are 8-4. Let's go here.


Not sure what you mean - that noisy contingent is the one burying McAdoo for today's performance.

The rest, the ones who were saying that Coughlin should not be dismissed and that the team was still deficient on talent, were all pretty adamant that the team was still another year away, with too many holes to fill in one season.

So the reaction is pretty much consistent with what we had heard before the season, just not a consensus of any sort.
Throw out the preseason predictions.  
Boy Cord : 12/4/2016 11:43 pm : link
That was before anyone knew the defense would be vastly improved. The disappointment/bitching/hand ringing comes from the lack of offensive production, and it is justified. The vast majority expected much more from this offense and it hasn't delivered. Had it delivered or come close to delivering I think it's safe to say the fan base would be content.
I'd say fans created them  
JonC : 12/5/2016 6:55 am : link
If you really paid attention so far this season, you had to realize the team was operating on borrowed time. The offense lacks talent and it's affecting Eli play to play.

Their margin for error is slim most weeks, the Steelers were desperate and wanted this game more. Toss in some sizable inconsistent officiating and ...
I guess then, that all the teams with  
Big Blue '56 : 12/5/2016 8:16 am : link
worse records, who have performed similarly, are a year or two away..

You are what your record says you are, at least according to many here. I was told repeatedly during our 4 last play losses last year(despite having the world's worst D) that easily could have resulted in a 10-6 record for us, that "you are what your record says you are." But not this year, because it favors one's point?

We're 8-4, with holes like the vast majority of teams with worse records, in a parity league and have as good a chance as anyone in these watered down conferences..There's Dallas and tge Pats..Haven't seen the Raiders and possibly Seattle who have played like dog shit much of the year even in victory..

And, when you have an OL that's precarious to begin with and add on top of that injuries to your starters which kill continuity and meshing, you're going to have problems. Many teams are suffering from this..

JPP's injury if severe could be problematical, but per usual, I'm willing to wait and see how that plays out..

We're 8-4  
JonC : 12/5/2016 8:20 am : link
because handled business the last six weeks against teams with a combined record of approx .333

We've got enough talent to win 10 or more games this season, let's see if the team is able to raise its game to another level.
RE: We're 8-4  
Big Blue '56 : 12/5/2016 8:26 am : link
In comment 13249260 JonC said:
Quote:
because handled business the last six weeks against teams with a combined record of approx .333

We've got enough talent to win 10 or more games this season, let's see if the team is able to raise its game to another level.


Hearing anything on Pugh's real progress?
No, only that it figured they'd hold him out for Dallas  
JonC : 12/5/2016 8:29 am : link
if there was any question.
If only Reese listened  
ryanmkeane : 12/5/2016 8:45 am : link
to Doomster and ColHowPepper, we'd have a 5th trophy by now.
The offensive needs a lot of work before we are a contender....  
Britt in VA : 12/5/2016 8:59 am : link
I've been saying it all year, we don't have a sustainable model to keep winning the way we've been doing it. I think the Green Bay and Pittsburgh game are good indicators of exactly what our faults are.

Good post, arcarsenal.
Britt, we are contenders and I still believe the O will pick up,  
Big Blue '56 : 12/5/2016 9:06 am : link
but it would help if, despite their FLAWS, we'd get back our OL so that their consistency could be sustainable..We're 8-4 after losing a game many of us rationally felt we'd lose, perhaps by a big margin. Nothing's changed..

At last count there are 24 teams with worse records, some of whom lead their divisions, who have built whatever wins THEY HAVE against other shitty teams. That's today's NFL..

By the end of the next 4 games we shall see where we are of course, but to say we're not contenders, is folly imv..I will still take my chances with Eli and company AND a pretty good D(JPP injury could hurt) to be there come playoff time..
What do we do well on offense, consistently?  
Britt in VA : 12/5/2016 9:13 am : link
I'd argue nothing.

If we don't have Beckham involved, our offense is dead in the water. We can't make teams pay for taking away Beckham.

No consistent run game, two smallish slot style receivers (one of which can't get any separation), no credible TE threat.

Outside of Beckham, we can't stretch the field. Getting Pugh back isn't going to change that, IMO. Those problems were there when the offensive line was full "strength", and I use the term "strength" extremely loosely.
We're not contenders, Fiddy.  
arcarsenal : 12/5/2016 9:13 am : link
I'd love if we were, but if you watch the better teams in this league right now, we're not there yet. There aren't many truly "good teams".. there's a complete muck filled batch of "okay" and I think we're around the better portion of those teams.

The Giants offense is flawed right now. It's not good enough to make a playoff run. Maybe things will suddenly click but I just don't see it.
Disagree.  
Big Blue '56 : 12/5/2016 9:27 am : link
by your logic, there would be only 3-4 teams (RIGHT NOW) that would be contenders as there are 24 other teams(and I think we're tied with 3 others along with Seattle being just a half game better) that are worse than us. They've also won against the same shit that we have won against..

Until proven differently, the records say we are in the thick of the fight despite the O crapping the bed more than we'd like..So suddenly, because it fits a possible agenda, the records are no longer "who the records say we are?"

We don't know what will happen at the end of the 4 remaining games. Maybe we'll win all 4, maybe we'll lose all 4, but as of right now, we are what our record says we are as are the other 31 teams. You can point out where we are deficient and that's fine, but you can't emphatically say we are NOT contenders, because the records, as of now, say we are.
People keep mentioning the Seattle Seahawks.  
area junc : 12/5/2016 9:32 am : link
W/L record, important as it is, is just a stat.

I don't know how you'd watch the Seahawks and think the Giants are in their league right now. They are better defensively and have a far superior offense, too. They would dismantle us.
And arca,  
Big Blue '56 : 12/5/2016 9:33 am : link
shouldn't your thread start have come at the END of the year, instead of with 4 games remaining? 4 winnable games, I might add, or 3 if you think there's little chance we beat Dallas
RE: People keep mentioning the Seattle Seahawks.  
Big Blue '56 : 12/5/2016 9:34 am : link
In comment 13249456 area junc said:
Quote:
W/L record, important as it is, is just a stat.

I don't know how you'd watch the Seahawks and think the Giants are in their league right now. They are better defensively and have a far superior offense, too. They would dismantle us.


Oh please, the Seahawks have shit the bed plenty this year
I believe we'll make the playoffs....  
Britt in VA : 12/5/2016 9:35 am : link
I also believe we'll have an ending similar to the ending of the 2005 season, when we were also "contenders", when our deficiencies will get exposed by teams that are more consistent than what we've played in the regular season.

I'm happy to have an 8-4 record, but as an indication of how good we are? It's a mirage. All we've heard about for the past week is how the Giants 6 wins in a row have come against teams that had a combined 14 points. That we were frauds. And we went out and proved them right.

And it's not because we lost. It's because we weren't competitive, and that's been the case in almost all the losses offensively except the Redskins.

Green Bay, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh, all teams with worse records than the Giants, the offense was non competitive.

It's a problem.
I cautiously hoped for 10-6 back in August  
djm : 12/5/2016 9:43 am : link
And i still believe they can get home to 10-6.

Flawed teams can have fun resurgent seasons. Just saying. This doesn't have to be a boom or bust mentality around here but fans are losing their shit after the the first NYG loss in 7 weeks.

Rally at home the next two weeks.
Seahawks are a veteran team that's been there before  
JonC : 12/5/2016 9:44 am : link
and demonstrated they're likely beginning to heat up as the seasons pushes towards the playoffs.

Giants are still learning how to win in the NFL, and they weren't up to the task of the Steelers brand of intensity yesterday. That's the next hurdle for this team.
RE: I believe we'll make the playoffs....  
drkenneth : 12/5/2016 9:46 am : link
In comment 13249465 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
I also believe we'll have an ending similar to the ending of the 2005 season, when we were also "contenders", when our deficiencies will get exposed by teams that are more consistent than what we've played in the regular season.

I'm happy to have an 8-4 record, but as an indication of how good we are? It's a mirage. All we've heard about for the past week is how the Giants 6 wins in a row have come against teams that had a combined 14 points. That we were frauds. And we went out and proved them right.

And it's not because we lost. It's because we weren't competitive, and that's been the case in almost all the losses offensively except the Redskins.

Green Bay, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh, all teams with worse records than the Giants, the offense was non competitive.

It's a problem.


You're so dramatic. If this team wins 10 games and makes the playoffs, are you really going to complain?

Everyone knows the O needs work. We knew it before the season.

This team could go 16-0 and BBI would bitch about something.

Am I happy at the way the offense has been playing? Hell no, but I'm sure as shit not going to complain about an 8-4 record.
RE: RE: I believe we'll make the playoffs....  
Britt in VA : 12/5/2016 9:48 am : link
In comment 13249502 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 13249465 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


I also believe we'll have an ending similar to the ending of the 2005 season, when we were also "contenders", when our deficiencies will get exposed by teams that are more consistent than what we've played in the regular season.

I'm happy to have an 8-4 record, but as an indication of how good we are? It's a mirage. All we've heard about for the past week is how the Giants 6 wins in a row have come against teams that had a combined 14 points. That we were frauds. And we went out and proved them right.

And it's not because we lost. It's because we weren't competitive, and that's been the case in almost all the losses offensively except the Redskins.

Green Bay, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh, all teams with worse records than the Giants, the offense was non competitive.

It's a problem.



You're so dramatic. If this team wins 10 games and makes the playoffs, are you really going to complain?

Everyone knows the O needs work. We knew it before the season.

This team could go 16-0 and BBI would bitch about something.

Am I happy at the way the offense has been playing? Hell no, but I'm sure as shit not going to complain about an 8-4 record.


It's not dramatic. It's realistic?

Everybody knew the O needed work before the season? Revisionist history. While not perfect, it was believed that the O was doing enough, based on the last two years, to win games with an improved defense.

If you're saying you called the major regression of the offense, I'm calling bullshit on you.
RE: I cautiously hoped for 10-6 back in August  
Carson53 : 12/5/2016 9:56 am : link
In comment 13249489 djm said:
Quote:
And i still believe they can get home to 10-6.

Flawed teams can have fun resurgent seasons. Just saying. This doesn't have to be a boom or bust mentality around here but fans are losing their shit after the the first NYG loss in 7 weeks.

Rally at home the next two weeks.
.

That's how I felt going into the season, if they can get
to 10 wins, and make the playoffs...I'll take it.
They are not true contenders, yes we know their unusual
history in the last decade, but just enjoy the nostalgia.
You can't get to Point D, without getting to Point A.
I mean this in the playoff sense, and I wish this organization would talk playoffs earlier in the season,
when you can't even accomplish that. New coach, I know,
but talk playoffs first, then worry about a Super Bowl if you get that far!

I would like Mac as a second year coach to put his 'mark'
on this coaching staff. Bring in a "real" OC, sorry
Mike Sullivan doesn't make me warm & fuzzy. Just a Coughlin crony, as I mentioned a couple days ago, KG, JR. and Quinn
can go as well, pretty obvious to me at least.
RE: People keep mentioning the Seattle Seahawks.  
Carson53 : 12/5/2016 9:58 am : link
In comment 13249456 area junc said:
Quote:
W/L record, important as it is, is just a stat.

I don't know how you'd watch the Seahawks and think the Giants are in their league right now. They are better defensively and have a far superior offense, too. They would dismantle us.
.

I felt bad for Earl Thomas yesterday, like that guy.
That team plays with an attitude, win or lose.
RE: RE: RE: I believe we'll make the playoffs....  
drkenneth : 12/5/2016 10:03 am : link
In comment 13249506 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 13249502 drkenneth said:


Quote:


In comment 13249465 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


I also believe we'll have an ending similar to the ending of the 2005 season, when we were also "contenders", when our deficiencies will get exposed by teams that are more consistent than what we've played in the regular season.

I'm happy to have an 8-4 record, but as an indication of how good we are? It's a mirage. All we've heard about for the past week is how the Giants 6 wins in a row have come against teams that had a combined 14 points. That we were frauds. And we went out and proved them right.

And it's not because we lost. It's because we weren't competitive, and that's been the case in almost all the losses offensively except the Redskins.

Green Bay, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh, all teams with worse records than the Giants, the offense was non competitive.

It's a problem.



You're so dramatic. If this team wins 10 games and makes the playoffs, are you really going to complain?

Everyone knows the O needs work. We knew it before the season.

This team could go 16-0 and BBI would bitch about something.

Am I happy at the way the offense has been playing? Hell no, but I'm sure as shit not going to complain about an 8-4 record.



It's not dramatic. It's realistic?

Everybody knew the O needed work before the season? Revisionist history. While not perfect, it was believed that the O was doing enough, based on the last two years, to win games with an improved defense.

If you're saying you called the major regression of the offense, I'm calling bullshit on you.


I'm not saying I called a regression on O. I thought (and still think) they should be better.

But- the OL is still an issue and they need a TE & WR.

And- they are 8-4. Call me crazy, but I'll just enjoy the rest of the season, and re-assess in the offseason.
The problem wasn't a regression on O - it was a collapse.  
jcn56 : 12/5/2016 10:06 am : link
We were a top 10 offense last year - now we're bottom 10. And that's while seemingly improving the talent base.

I was one of those secretly hoping that the offense would straighten out to middle of the pack, and that a strong defense could let us make some noise. It doesn't look like the offense is strengthening in any way, in fact, it's probably the opposite. That puts us soundly into 'wait til next year' territory.
Take responsibility for your own expectations.  
Marty in Albany : 12/5/2016 10:24 am : link
When McAdoo tells the team that their goal is the Super Bowl he is telling them how he expects them to PLAY, not what he expects them to ACCOMPLISH this year. If McAdoo ever told reporters that he expects the Giants to win the division or be a wild card, as opposed to striving for it, then I am mistaken an withdraw my opinion.

The only time the Giants ever told the fans directly that they were going to win anything was Reese's unfortunate Super Bowl count-down calendar. He'll never make that mistake again.

My motto: "Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."-- author unknown.
RE: Take responsibility for your own expectations.  
Britt in VA : 12/5/2016 10:45 am : link
In comment 13249615 Marty in Albany said:
Quote:
When McAdoo tells the team that their goal is the Super Bowl he is telling them how he expects them to PLAY, not what he expects them to ACCOMPLISH this year. If McAdoo ever told reporters that he expects the Giants to win the division or be a wild card, as opposed to striving for it, then I am mistaken an withdraw my opinion.

The only time the Giants ever told the fans directly that they were going to win anything was Reese's unfortunate Super Bowl count-down calendar. He'll never make that mistake again.

My motto: "Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."-- author unknown.


My expectation was that the offense was as good as last year, if not a little better.

Frankly, I'm shocked at how poorly they've played this year, as well as shocked at how poorly some of the games have been called offensively. What the hell happened?

If we had last year's offense, this team would be very good right now, and fully capable of a deep playoff run.
RE: Take responsibility for your own expectations.  
Carson53 : 12/5/2016 11:18 am : link
In comment 13249615 Marty in Albany said:
Quote:
When McAdoo tells the team that their goal is the Super Bowl he is telling them how he expects them to PLAY, not what he expects them to ACCOMPLISH this year. If McAdoo ever told reporters that he expects the Giants to win the division or be a wild card, as opposed to striving for it, then I am mistaken an withdraw my opinion.

The only time the Giants ever told the fans directly that they were going to win anything was Reese's unfortunate Super Bowl count-down calendar. He'll never make that mistake again.


My motto: "Blessed is he who expects nothing, for he shall never be disappointed."-- author unknown.
.

If you want to get technical, every team's goal is to win
the SB. Personally I wasn't just talking about the HC,
it's just the mindset with this organization.
How 'bout they make the fucking playoffs for a change,
works for me. I don't live in past glories, some fans do.
I stay in present tense watching this organization nowadays.
RE: And arca,  
arcarsenal : 12/5/2016 11:33 am : link
In comment 13249460 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
shouldn't your thread start have come at the END of the year, instead of with 4 games remaining? 4 winnable games, I might add, or 3 if you think there's little chance we beat Dallas


I'm just calling it as I see it.

I think people who feel this team is a contender are likely to be disappointed because the offensive deficiencies are a legitimate issue.

Like I said.. as it stands now, I expect 10-6 and hopefully a wild card. But once we get in, I don't know how far we'll get.

This season has been a step in the right direction. But we still have a little ways to go. I get it, people don't like to admit that maybe this isn't the year because it takes a lot of the air out of things.. that's fine. I just have to be realistic with myself when I watch this team. I think they're solid. I don't think they're a contender.

I'd sure love to be wrong.
RE: RE: And arca,  
giantsfan44ab : 12/5/2016 11:43 am : link
In comment 13249881 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13249460 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


shouldn't your thread start have come at the END of the year, instead of with 4 games remaining? 4 winnable games, I might add, or 3 if you think there's little chance we beat Dallas



I'm just calling it as I see it.

I think people who feel this team is a contender are likely to be disappointed because the offensive deficiencies are a legitimate issue.

Like I said.. as it stands now, I expect 10-6 and hopefully a wild card. But once we get in, I don't know how far we'll get.

This season has been a step in the right direction. But we still have a little ways to go. I get it, people don't like to admit that maybe this isn't the year because it takes a lot of the air out of things.. that's fine. I just have to be realistic with myself when I watch this team. I think they're solid. I don't think they're a contender.

I'd sure love to be wrong.


My thoughts exactly. It was a 2 year process going into the season and right now this team has met my expectations more or less (exceeded it on defense, underperformed on offense). I knew a retooling of the O-line would've been necessary. Might need another threat at WR/TE as well.
The Denver/KC  
giantsfan44ab : 12/5/2016 11:45 am : link
model is what this team should be building towards. Win on defense and have enough weapons on offense to take the pressure off Eli.

Power run game is the biggest need. Red zone threats are the 2nd. Need better LBs too, but I think the defense is good enough to carry this team as is.
RE: RE: I believe we'll make the playoffs....  
HomerJones45 : 12/5/2016 11:51 am : link
In comment 13249502 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 13249465 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


I also believe we'll have an ending similar to the ending of the 2005 season, when we were also "contenders", when our deficiencies will get exposed by teams that are more consistent than what we've played in the regular season.

I'm happy to have an 8-4 record, but as an indication of how good we are? It's a mirage. All we've heard about for the past week is how the Giants 6 wins in a row have come against teams that had a combined 14 points. That we were frauds. And we went out and proved them right.

And it's not because we lost. It's because we weren't competitive, and that's been the case in almost all the losses offensively except the Redskins.

Green Bay, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh, all teams with worse records than the Giants, the offense was non competitive.

It's a problem.



You're so dramatic. If this team wins 10 games and makes the playoffs, are you really going to complain?

Everyone knows the O needs work. We knew it before the season.

This team could go 16-0 and BBI would bitch about something.

Am I happy at the way the offense has been playing? Hell no, but I'm sure as shit not going to complain about an 8-4 record.
You didn't know it before the season. You certainly didn't know it after the 200 million spend on defense. You were one of those who believed this was a playoff team last season ruined by the ravings of a senile old man.
I understand the main point  
Matt M. : 12/5/2016 11:56 am : link
But, the reason so many are optimistic or expecting playoffs or whatever, is that this offense has done more with less talent the previous 2 seasons. Yes, they also had warts. But, they routinely gained more yards per game and scored much more points per game. So, each week, we expect the real Eli led WCO to show up and drop 30 on someone, anyone.
RE: I understand the main point  
arcarsenal : 12/5/2016 12:02 pm : link
In comment 13249953 Matt M. said:
Quote:
But, the reason so many are optimistic or expecting playoffs or whatever, is that this offense has done more with less talent the previous 2 seasons. Yes, they also had warts. But, they routinely gained more yards per game and scored much more points per game. So, each week, we expect the real Eli led WCO to show up and drop 30 on someone, anyone.


I keep hoping it's going to show up, too.. but we have to get to a point where we realize this is more or less what the offense is this year. I don't foresee it magically just taking a major step forward. Yes, I think we will have some games where we perform better.. but the issues aren't going to disappear until we have another offseason to address them.
RE: RE: I understand the main point  
Matt M. : 12/5/2016 12:07 pm : link
In comment 13249974 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13249953 Matt M. said:


Quote:


But, the reason so many are optimistic or expecting playoffs or whatever, is that this offense has done more with less talent the previous 2 seasons. Yes, they also had warts. But, they routinely gained more yards per game and scored much more points per game. So, each week, we expect the real Eli led WCO to show up and drop 30 on someone, anyone.



I keep hoping it's going to show up, too.. but we have to get to a point where we realize this is more or less what the offense is this year. I don't foresee it magically just taking a major step forward. Yes, I think we will have some games where we perform better.. but the issues aren't going to disappear until we have another offseason to address them.
I hear you, but I've also watched Eli for 13 seasons and I've seen what he can do with no WRs, no OL, and no running game. I honestly do expect it to just turn around.

That said, I think a big part of the problem is McAdoo calling the plays. He seems to be out of his element as the HC while still calling the offense. The offense has lacked flow as a result. This hasn't been the same offense he called the 2 prior years. So, either he was a really shitty OC who was simply calling plays given to him, or his approach changed when he became HC.
I agree.  
BrettNYG10 : 12/5/2016 12:07 pm : link
I thought going into this year the best case scenario was make the playoffs, maybe win a game and then make the leap to contender next year.

I don't think this team is all that far off. I also think the loss of Pugh is much bigger than most here. I'm disappointed in all loses, of course, but if the team makes the playoffs this is a successful season in my book.
I never had any unrealistic expectations for the  
Jersey55 : 12/5/2016 5:09 pm : link
Giants for this season. I've seen enough football in my life that to know what I see when I see it, this team is good enough to beat teams who are on a talent level with them but when you go up against teams with good coaching and talented players it becomes a mismatch that we can't overcome. I think it comes down to smart drafting and obtaining the players in FA who can come and start and fill weak spots..
It seems to me  
Mike in Marin : 12/5/2016 5:32 pm : link
that we are rarely in the lead and often under the gun to score to stay in games, or hang onto leads.

We therefore often give up on a running game, that though it it looks like shit at times, never gets much of a chance to get going. The few times it has gotten going, it looks pretty good.

The stats seem to reflect this. We just need a little more consistency in the run blocking and our defense is not as great as a lot of people seem to think. It's barely better than middle of the road, on balance. At times, it has looked pretty good, especially since the first few games. But it isn't anything even close to being "great." Saying that, I am very pleased at how the D has taken positive steps this year.

But our LBs have been mostly horrible for 10 years. I understand the focus on DEs and CBs given a 4-3 and all the nickle packages, but really, have we had one LB whose jersey you would want to wear in at least 5 or even 10 years ? I can't think of anyone.
Seems that people  
Giants_ROK : 12/5/2016 5:33 pm : link
are discounting the fact that there's a rookie head coach. Growing pains. 8-4 is pretty damn good.
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