You look at 8-3 on paper and you can't help but be excited. I mean, after the way things have gone since 4 years ago, every single one of us would have jumped for joy about the prospect of being 8-3 through 11 games. How could you not?
That said.. if you've watched the Giants this year, there's one thing that's pretty clear. The offense is an issue. It's a major issue and it's the reason why we're not quite ready to contend.
The good news is that the defense is legit. This is a real, playoff-caliber NFL defense now. And the players that were acquired are not stopgaps. Janoris Jenkins is not a stopgap, Olivier Vernon is not a stopgap, Damon Harrison is not a stopgap. These are players who are still in their prime and are going to be here. Landon Collins is becoming an elite safety. Eli Apple is showing signs of becoming a legitimate NFL CB. Big Hank is very good. Yeah, the LB corps is a little suspect but we're getting there.
Anyway... my point is. The 2016 Giants are a significant improvement over the 2013, 2014 and 2015 versions.. but they're not ready to make a serious run this year.
I think we'll wind up 10-6. I have no idea how we'll get there.. but I think that's where we'll end up. If it's good enough to punch a WC ticket, awesome. Not sure it will be.. but if it is, great. I don't think the offense is "broken" but I think it needs a good amount of work and I don't think it'll be good enough at any point this season to make the Giants a contender.
We're close, though. A few tweaks/upgrades and this team can be a SB contender in 2017-18. We just have to be realistic about this team. I'll be rooting and hoping for the best.. but my rational side knows we're not quite there.
Turning the 2015 team into a SB contender in one offseason was a tall task. I think Reese did a really good job this offseason but he's going to need one more to get the offensive side of the football what it needs to succeed.
I'm frustrated with the playcalling and the offensive philosophy to a degree but when you don't have a OL that can open holes, you don't have a FB who can pave the road, you don't have TE's who can run block, and your most dynamic, talented RB is a rookie and isn't playing full time... how much can we realistically expect from Eli?
So this spring we will dump all of our resources to the offense and expect the defense to pick right where they were, but it doesn't work like that.
However you feel about the amount of time the re-build took, the bottom line is that this team is on the right track.. but doesn't have what it needs for 2016.
The other thing is that a re-build when you have a franchise QB in place already is incredibly difficult to do. How many teams in this league have successfully done this with a QB in place with a big contract?
I feel very good about where we are right now. I just wish the offense was playing better. But the OL hasn't stepped it up. Cruz may be done. Shepard was over-hyped by his teammates. The tight ends and running backs are bleh.
If this team finishes 10-6, I will be pleasantly surprised.
However you feel about the amount of time the re-build took, the bottom line is that this team is on the right track.. but doesn't have what it needs for 2016.
The other thing is that a re-build when you have a franchise QB in place already is incredibly difficult to do. How many teams in this league have successfully done this with a QB in place with a big contract?
In 2013 the offense was broken but the defense was OK. We had a fix the offense.
After 2014-15, the defense was broken but the offense was solid.
Now in 2016 the defense is very good but the offense is broken again.
What should we think this trend will now change?
We invested a TON on the OL with shitty results.
We thought maybe they were ready to take that next step...you have to learn how to win, before you can become a contender....It just doesn't look like this is that team yet....
I see little reason to be excited about continuing this offense next year.
We invested a TON on the OL with shitty results.
This is the worst case scenario to me: after all these resources invested recently in the OL and we have no real answer at any position except possibly LG? Remember, Sy'56 isn't very high on Richburg at C and even posted today he was "done with Flowers at LT". Scary.
How many of you really thought this team would win 10 games this year? If they go 10-6, based on what we just saw last year, how could you not be at least sort of encouraged?
Completely unrelated: seeing some of the Giants wearing capes on the sidelines in Pittsburgh had me waxing nostalgic.
TB and ATL do not need to win out to get to 10. One will win their division. MN can run the table because their schedule is manageable. Those worry me the most. I don't think GB makes it to ten. DC has a better chance with Philly, Caro, Chi, and Gmen on their schedule. I can easily see week 17 being for the six seed.
How many of you really thought this team would win 10 games this year? If they go 10-6, based on what we just saw last year, how could you not be at least sort of encouraged?
The ironic thing is we were running the ball well today but we didn't even give it a chance.
The other problem is that this offense seems to start slow every week.. the Bengals game was an exception but even after the initial TD drive we struggled for a bit.
Oh, so just half the team? Lol. You forgot one of the biggest pieces and that is improving the lass rush. One, resign JPP. Two, we need another pass rusher.
Is it huge or just confusing? Palmer has been explosive. Now he sits? Now Vereen comes in and Jennings gets his carries?
but the fact we're sitting here saying we may not have a starting caliber RB, we have no clue what we have behind OBJ at WR, we may not have a starting caliber TE, and the OL is still an area of need...it comes into question...how? how do we have so many needs on that side of the ball despite the amount of attention its received in recent years (this past offseason spending spree notwithstanding). and we have a QB that is getting no younger...
it just seems like there are so many pieces missing from the offense and yet this same unit was humming last year with Randle as the #2 WR and our return specialist as the #3 WR. something just seems off.
The other problem is that this offense seems to start slow every week.. the Bengals game was an exception but even after the initial TD drive we struggled for a bit.
Having a quality run game isn't about long runs. It is about controlling the clock, extending drives, opening up the playbook by putting you in good down and distances, and probably most important slowing down the pass rush. The run game was doing its job today. We just didn't stick with it.
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Have to upgrade OL(big time), TE, RB, and LB (if we can). Then, we should be contenders. As Sean said though, 5 years to rebuild, next offseason will be 6. Teams do do it quicker in some cases, but better late than never, I guess.
Oh, so just half the team? Lol. You forgot one of the biggest pieces and that is improving the lass rush. One, resign JPP. Two, we need another pass rusher.
I was trying to go 'bright-side', bro. LOL.
I just don't think this OL run blocks well. We have no FB on the roster and we are without a TE who blocks well. It shouldn't take multiple years to fix those things. Will Johnson was a big loss.
There's been a larger gap than we'd have liked between years of competitive football.. but when you have a franchise QB in place making the money Eli is, it's not so easy to overhaul and re-build because you have a window that is on the way down.
Unless you think we should have traded Eli away, what Reese is trying to do right now is a pretty tall task. We did have some weak drafts.. so Reese isn't blameless, but I thought he did as good a job as could have been expected this past offseason. I just think he needs another.
It doesn't even seem like we attempt to run outside. I'd say upwards of 90% of the rushing attempts are trap plays out of the shotgun. Which is sort of the other problem.
David in LA : 9:51 pm : link : reply
because we showed Coughlin the door when it was too late.
Thats pathetic .....
You can start with Teflon Jerry and his Job of assembling
an Offensive line that is dreadful . Even the high picks
are not showing a ton of promise . The TE's no security
there for Eli and asking a pocket passer to not play to
his strengths and Zero Run game for the most part and
this is on TC ...Pass the Bong
but the fact we're sitting here saying we may not have a starting caliber RB, we have no clue what we have behind OBJ at WR, we may not have a starting caliber TE, and the OL is still an area of need...it comes into question...how? how do we have so many needs on that side of the ball despite the amount of attention its received in recent years (this past offseason spending spree notwithstanding). and we have a QB that is getting no younger...
it just seems like there are so many pieces missing from the offense and yet this same unit was humming last year with Randle as the #2 WR and our return specialist as the #3 WR. something just seems off.
You expect first (and maybe 2nd) rounders to approach Pro Bowl (on merit, not fan popularity) worthy play. Beckham is a given, obviously. Pugh didn't ever play at a high level until this year, his 2nd playing a different position. But Sy'56 questions Richburg's long term viability at C and Flowers is a disaster after 28 games at LT. When you aren't sure of guys at the 2 most important spots on the OL, who were picked #9 and 43, that's a major problem.
I completely agree with you on this. I think we're undermanned to a degree but I don't think that should mean that we have to run this many plays out of the same formation. Take the TD to Jennings for example.. it wasn't necessarily a "trick" play, but it was a changeup and it was executed to perfection.
There are so many different looks you can show and we are constantly in 11 out of the gun. We never bunch the WR's on one side... we barely ever use 4 WR or empty backfield. I don't really understand it.
I feel very good about where we are right now. I just wish the offense was playing better. But the OL hasn't stepped it up. Cruz may be done. Shepard was over-hyped by his teammates. The tight ends and running backs are bleh.
If this team finishes 10-6, I will be pleasantly surprised.
Exactly this... Like i told me dad.. they fixed the defense this year.. next year they fix the offense
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9:45 pm : link : reply
consensus on BBI before the season was that this was a 7-9 to 9-7 team.
You are correct....after 3 losing seasons, 9-7 would be looked at as a great season......but not after you are 8-3....that would mean that you finished 1-4, when games really mattered....
I'm not saying they are going to finish 1-4, but it could happen....
As for Eli, I agree with others, that too many people think Eli, can perform like 2011 Eli....that Eli that could overcome a poor OL, poor running game, and a defense that gave up more points than the offense scored.....That Eli doesn't exist anymore......5 seasons of bad OL's have had an effect on him, whether he wants to admit it or not....
That first int, is case in point.....when you have first or second down, and you are throwing the ball in that situation, if the clock in your head says get rid of it, you don't throw the ball unless the guy is wide open, OR you throw the ball only where your receiver has a chance to catch it.....not doing so is a rookie mistake, and not something you expect from a veteran franchise qb...if either scenario is not there you throw it away, and you line up for the next attempt.....that was a mental error on Eli's part....the defensive player made a good play on a ball he shouldn't have been able to touch, and Eli helped him out, by staring his receiver down, again....
Yes, Eli has a bad OL...he has no running game...his TE's are inconsistent....but if he throws that ball only where Donnell can catch it, it's a different ball game....maybe 2011 Eli makes the throw, 2015 Eli didn't....
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is the 2nd best weapon on the offense. Ideally he shouldn't be (nothing against him), but he is. Getting him back will be huge.
Is it huge or just confusing? Palmer has been explosive. Now he sits? Now Vereen comes in and Jennings gets his carries?
Why would it be confusing? Vereen is the 3rd down back. I like Perkins but he doesn't have the receiving skills, vision, or quickness in short space that vereen has. Vereen was solid as a pass blocker as well, not sure how perkins is holding up.
results ...? Mac seems robotic to me and some of the plays
are close to getting guys killed because the defense has such
a beat on everything we run . Eli looks scared shitliss and
never has time to get to all the reads hence Cruz no
targets . Last Week it was Shepard . The TE's don't
get much use either .
I feel very good about where we are right now. I just wish the offense was playing better. But the OL hasn't stepped it up. Cruz may be done. Shepard was over-hyped by his teammates. The tight ends and running backs are bleh.
If this team finishes 10-6, I will be pleasantly surprised.
They are 8-4. Let's go here.
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consensus on BBI before the season was that this was a 7-9 to 9-7 team.
I feel very good about where we are right now. I just wish the offense was playing better. But the OL hasn't stepped it up. Cruz may be done. Shepard was over-hyped by his teammates. The tight ends and running backs are bleh.
If this team finishes 10-6, I will be pleasantly surprised.
bullshit. There was a significant and noisy contingent who thought this was a playoff team last season- before the 200 million spend, the axing of starters, the return of Cruz, and the renovation of the coaching staff. The playoffs this season was supposed to be a sure thing. Now we get these maudlin excuse and revisionist history threads, whining about refs, and crying about the o-line.
They are 8-4. Let's go here.
Not sure what you mean - that noisy contingent is the one burying McAdoo for today's performance.
The rest, the ones who were saying that Coughlin should not be dismissed and that the team was still deficient on talent, were all pretty adamant that the team was still another year away, with too many holes to fill in one season.
So the reaction is pretty much consistent with what we had heard before the season, just not a consensus of any sort.