Having followed along, rewatching episodes and reading about fan theories, I felt like the length of the episode was a bit much. I felt like they were beating me over the head with it...
This was the twist because up until last night, we never thought that. We all thought only Arnold cared about that and that Ford in fact was out to sabotage ARNOLD for this. Fooled us.
Obviously Ford planned Maeve's escape but apparently his planning did not mean she was to leave the park at that moment because she turned around to go look for her daughter. I suppose her daughter can reach consciousness too given time.
I'm not sure MIB was killed. He was shot at in the shoulder so I'm not sure why they wouldn't finish the job.
Do i think Ford was really killed and not a Ford android. Yes, although I suppose it is possible the previous poster is correct in what he said. It just seems like a better way to go, seems more honorable for Ford truly to be a Christ like figure and die for his creation.
Ford was 100% killed. However, there could be a chance that he created a host with his storyline and what not somewhere.
The whole point of this episode was to show that Arnold was wrong. He thought Delores was sentient when she completed the maze the first time.
We realize in this episode that she is full conscious when she realizes the voice in her head was actually her own.
Ford somehow new this when Arnold brought this up to him, but Arnold continues with his massicare plan that includes himself, except he fucked up because he had Delores kill a bunch of hosts and himself. No once cares about a bunch of hosts being killed.
Ford on the other hand knows he is about to lose control of his baby. Much like Arnold lost his son and decides it's time to unleash the sentiants to show if he can't control them then no one will.
He stages another massicare, but this time there a bunch of humans there as an audience. We know Ford dies and other humans in the audience, but not sure if it's everyone. This will essentially shut all the parks down.
He asked earlier "how do you know I won't take my ball and go home?" He knew they were conscious and once he knew they were going to go through with removing him he decided to let the robots live and be sentient.
First- not a reply to this comment but the one after: Hopkins is signed on for season 2. Whether that's flashbacks of him as a host of he's not dead remains to be seen.
Ford losing control had nothing to do with him helping the hosts become sentient. He clearly states that after Delores went on her spree that he realized that Arnold was correct. He's been helping them become sentient the whole time.
I agree with your last statement as well. I don't think Arnold had made it to the finish line as he thought he did and it took Ford 35 years without Arnold to complete it. With Arnold it probably would have been less time. I also think he was waiting to for the perfect time to do the mic drop out of WW and it's no coincidence that it happened just as he was being forced to retire.
Arnold knew that the hosts needed more time to develop, except he saw the opening of the park as a threat to his work. The hosts were all going to be wiped and if Arnold was around and alive, he'd be forced to roll back all of his work.
Ford also knew that the hosts needed more time and was a caretaker of sorts. Once he saw that the work was once again going to be threatened after he was ousted, he knew that setting them loose was the only way to buy more time.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Ford absolutely cared about the sentience of the androids
This was the twist because up until last night, we never thought that. We all thought only Arnold cared about that and that Ford in fact was out to sabotage ARNOLD for this. Fooled us.
Obviously Ford planned Maeve's escape but apparently his planning did not mean she was to leave the park at that moment because she turned around to go look for her daughter. I suppose her daughter can reach consciousness too given time.
I'm not sure MIB was killed. He was shot at in the shoulder so I'm not sure why they wouldn't finish the job.
Do i think Ford was really killed and not a Ford android. Yes, although I suppose it is possible the previous poster is correct in what he said. It just seems like a better way to go, seems more honorable for Ford truly to be a Christ like figure and die for his creation.
Ford was 100% killed. However, there could be a chance that he created a host with his storyline and what not somewhere.
The whole point of this episode was to show that Arnold was wrong. He thought Delores was sentient when she completed the maze the first time.
We realize in this episode that she is full conscious when she realizes the voice in her head was actually her own.
Ford somehow new this when Arnold brought this up to him, but Arnold continues with his massicare plan that includes himself, except he fucked up because he had Delores kill a bunch of hosts and himself. No once cares about a bunch of hosts being killed.
Ford on the other hand knows he is about to lose control of his baby. Much like Arnold lost his son and decides it's time to unleash the sentiants to show if he can't control them then no one will.
He stages another massicare, but this time there a bunch of humans there as an audience. We know Ford dies and other humans in the audience, but not sure if it's everyone. This will essentially shut all the parks down.
He asked earlier "how do you know I won't take my ball and go home?" He knew they were conscious and once he knew they were going to go through with removing him he decided to let the robots live and be sentient.
First- not a reply to this comment but the one after: Hopkins is signed on for season 2. Whether that's flashbacks of him as a host of he's not dead remains to be seen.
Ford losing control had nothing to do with him helping the hosts become sentient. He clearly states that after Delores went on her spree that he realized that Arnold was correct. He's been helping them become sentient the whole time.
I agree with your last statement as well. I don't think Arnold had made it to the finish line as he thought he did and it took Ford 35 years without Arnold to complete it. With Arnold it probably would have been less time. I also think he was waiting to for the perfect time to do the mic drop out of WW and it's no coincidence that it happened just as he was being forced to retire.
I think the name of the episode, The Bicameral Mind, is a reference that it took both Ford and Arnold for the Hosts to achieve full consciousness. Arnold thought Delores had done so after she first completed the Maze. We know that isn't the case now, and had Arnold had his way, the Hosts most likely would have simply been destroyed. Arnold had the vision but not the patience. Ford was a Doubting Thomas who, having seen the light, knew it would take decades to prepare the Hosts to reach "enlightenment". Despite being the better programmer Arnold's humanity needed to be paired with Ford's patience, subversive and ruthless as it was at times, to see the plan through.
I get that she was programmed by Ford all along to carry out his final narrative, but did she actually reach sentience in the moments after Ford had left her? It was implied that hosts being able to hear their own voice and thought process was a final step of sorts.
Theresa was shown to be having some kind of covert communication with those Asian guys. Wasn't she linked to the transmitter? Perhaps she was the corporate spy.
RE: I still think the woman that represented the board...
... and called for Ford to resign is a host, not a real person
Charlotte Hale may or may not be a robot. With Tessa Thompson portraying her, she might as well be. Her confrontation with Sir Anthony Hopkins may have been the most lopsided mismatch since Mike Tyson fought Marvis Frazier.
Question about the earlier timeline with William and Logan
If we are to now believe the scenes of William and Logan were only the detailed memories of Deloris and do not stand on their own as a storyline from 30 years ago, then how would Deloris be able to retell the scenes where she was not present? Scenes like: William and Logan arriving at WW on the train and in the visitor center in episode 2-before they ran into Deloris at Sweetwater. Or scenes with William and Logan after Deloris was gut stabbed and she ran off.
From what perspective are those scenes being shown? (FYI: Just wondering and not complaining. I think the final episode was artfully done and I have no issue with the 2 timelines-but I was wondering if I missed something that would account for Deloris memory scenes without Deloris).
RE: Question about the earlier timeline with William and Logan
If we are to now believe the scenes of William and Logan were only the detailed memories of Deloris and do not stand on their own as a storyline from 30 years ago, then how would Deloris be able to retell the scenes where she was not present? Scenes like: William and Logan arriving at WW on the train and in the visitor center in episode 2-before they ran into Deloris at Sweetwater. Or scenes with William and Logan after Deloris was gut stabbed and she ran off.
From what perspective are those scenes being shown? (FYI: Just wondering and not complaining. I think the final episode was artfully done and I have no issue with the 2 timelines-but I was wondering if I missed something that would account for Deloris memory scenes without Deloris).
I think only the Delores centric stuff when she's remembering from present back to then are just "her" memories. The rest are just a plain narrative of what happened back then. They spliced them together to make it confusing.
What happened to Logan? Did he get lost in the park after William sent him off on that horse?
Why in the world were those two Techs helping Maeve? I get at first entertaining her new found conscience and tweaking her inner programming. Although as time went on and Maeve demanded "Super User" level access to her core programming, why not shut her off? I never understood their motives in giving Maeve everything she ever wanted, besides her blackmail threats, which they could easily got around if they wiped her memories. Unless they are androids also, assisting Maeve in another of Dr. Ford's storylines.
Maybe, but what about that mysterious host being constucted in his secret lab ? He and Bernard enter the celebration gala from down below, through the confessional.
What happened to Logan? Did he get lost in the park after William sent him off on that horse?
Why in the world were those two Techs helping Maeve? I get at first entertaining her new found conscience and tweaking her inner programming. Although as time went on and Maeve demanded "Super User" level access to her core programming, why not shut her off? I never understood their motives in giving Maeve everything she ever wanted, besides her blackmail threats, which they could easily got around if they wiped her memories. Unless they are androids also, assisting Maeve in another of Dr. Ford's storylines.
Did anyone notice that the "laser" device used to heal Bernard's head and Delores'mouth wounds was the same device used to treat Sylvester's throat wound ? Is it possible that Sylvester is a host too ?
What happened to Logan? Did he get lost in the park after William sent him off on that horse?
Why in the world were those two Techs helping Maeve? I get at first entertaining her new found conscience and tweaking her inner programming. Although as time went on and Maeve demanded "Super User" level access to her core programming, why not shut her off? I never understood their motives in giving Maeve everything she ever wanted, besides her blackmail threats, which they could easily got around if they wiped her memories. Unless they are androids also, assisting Maeve in another of Dr. Ford's storylines.
I took it as Logan is dead. William didn't kill him outright but he sent him off naked with his hands tied together, odds are he died of exposure. The conversation about his (Logan's) father needing someone more reliable clinched it for me, as in he'll turn to William, his son in law, to run the company after his actual son dies.
What happened to Logan? Did he get lost in the park after William sent him off on that horse?
Why in the world were those two Techs helping Maeve? I get at first entertaining her new found conscience and tweaking her inner programming. Although as time went on and Maeve demanded "Super User" level access to her core programming, why not shut her off? I never understood their motives in giving Maeve everything she ever wanted, besides her blackmail threats, which they could easily got around if they wiped her memories. Unless they are androids also, assisting Maeve in another of Dr. Ford's storylines.
Did anyone notice that the "laser" device used to heal Bernard's head and Delores'mouth wounds was the same device used to treat Sylvester's throat wound ? Is it possible that Sylvester is a host too ?
The hosts aren't mechanical at all anymore. They're organic just like humans with the only exception being part of parts of their brains that allow them to be programmed.
Turns out 3D printing organize was cheaper than making all of those parts.
but I love the use of contemporary music and thought it was a great touch all season. A bit heavy on the Radiohead, but that's forgivable. My favorite was last nights use of Exit Music as Ford was making his, well, exit. Also loved the use of Amy Winehouses Back to Black.
The episode provided a Unified Theory of Everything. Most of the "present-day" story line has been the opening scene of Ford's new narrative. He planned it all, including his own death. The multiple timelines were basically Dolores's internal journey - scripted by Ford. Maeve's awakening and escape? Ford again. And yes, William is the Man in Black, but that sort of detail looks pretty small now, and Will/MiB seems to have been another Ford pawn. I think the MiB will wind up mattering mostly because, if he survives the massacre, his emotional investment in the hosts, coupled with his ownership stake, might save the park from getting nuked. And again, that's probably just what Ford has in mind.
I'm still fuzzy on the purpose of beaming data out of the park. I guess that's a topic for Season 2.
Once the comic-book violence with Hector and Armistice was out of the way, I liked the wrap-up of Maeve's arc. It was, literally, impossible for her to leave. Ford has other plans for her; and like Bernard and Dolores, she will have to suffer more before that plan is fully revealed.
Granted, it was counter-intuitive for Maeve to cut off Bernard's warning when she had just woken him up to get his insight; but she couldn't very well let Bernard tell us what would happen on the train.
Looking at Sunday's episode again, I noted the same scene that BBB did where Maeve and Bernard are in Cold Storage and he is telling her that someone changed her story to "escape" and she doesn't believe him. He says: yes I can even tell you the steps that you were supposed to follow; recruit hosts, get on the train and when you get to the mainland...she cuts him off and breaks the pad. So the plan was for her to stay on the train.
I think this is interesting because I wonder if the Maeve awaken was actually part of Fords plan or was the effort to get her out of the park another Charlotte/Theresa plan for Delos to once again try to get the IP out of the park and away from Ford. Was Maeve their plan A and Abernathy Plan B (the host with the uplink that bashed in it's own head in may have be plan A1).
Ford probably new what they were doing with Maeve (and Abernathy) and used Maeve's cornerstone and overwhelming compulsion to find her daughter to pull her off the train and foil the Delos plan.
The episode provided a Unified Theory of Everything. Most of the "present-day" story line has been the opening scene of Ford's new narrative. He planned it all, including his own death. The multiple timelines were basically Dolores's internal journey - scripted by Ford. Maeve's awakening and escape? Ford again. And yes, William is the Man in Black, but that sort of detail looks pretty small now, and Will/MiB seems to have been another Ford pawn. I think the MiB will wind up mattering mostly because, if he survives the massacre, his emotional investment in the hosts, coupled with his ownership stake, might save the park from getting nuked. And again, that's probably just what Ford has in mind.
I'm still fuzzy on the purpose of beaming data out of the park. I guess that's a topic for Season 2.
Once the comic-book violence with Hector and Armistice was out of the way, I liked the wrap-up of Maeve's arc. It was, literally, impossible for her to leave. Ford has other plans for her; and like Bernard and Dolores, she will have to suffer more before that plan is fully revealed.
Granted, it was counter-intuitive for Maeve to cut off Bernard's warning when she had just woken him up to get his insight; but she couldn't very well let Bernard tell us what would happen on the train.
Looking at Sunday's episode again, I noted the same scene that BBB did where Maeve and Bernard are in Cold Storage and he is telling her that someone changed her story to "escape" and she doesn't believe him. He says: yes I can even tell you the steps that you were supposed to follow; recruit hosts, get on the train and when you get to the mainland...she cuts him off and breaks the pad. So the plan was for her to stay on the train.
I think this is interesting because I wonder if the Maeve awaken was actually part of Fords plan or was the effort to get her out of the park another Charlotte/Theresa plan for Delos to once again try to get the IP out of the park and away from Ford. Was Maeve their plan A and Abernathy Plan B (the host with the uplink that bashed in it's own head in may have be plan A1).
Ford probably new what they were doing with Maeve (and Abernathy) and used Maeve's cornerstone and overwhelming compulsion to find her daughter to pull her off the train and foil the Delos plan.
I took her going back to WestWorld as a sign that she was making a choice to go back to get her daughter. Your theory makes a ton of sense.
and thought that the plot really stepped up into another gear during the last 3 episodes. The acting, music, cinematography were all great too. I think a lot of the critics who didn't get behind the show just didn't have the patience to see the story develop.
One thing I regret though is reading episode discussions regarding this show. The various fan theories had most of the stuff figured out from the beginning and it didn't lessen the impact of the big reveals somewhat. That sort of speculation is natural and inherent to any discussion thread but it certainly didn't enhance my viewing experience this season and I'll keep that in mind for season 2.
and thought that the plot really stepped up into another gear during the last 3 episodes. The acting, music, cinematography were all great too. I think a lot of the critics who didn't get behind the show just didn't have the patience to see the story develop.
One thing I regret though is reading episode discussions regarding this show. The various fan theories had most of the stuff figured out from the beginning and it didn't lessen the impact of the big reveals somewhat. That sort of speculation is natural and inherent to any discussion thread but it certainly didn't enhance my viewing experience this season and I'll keep that in mind for season 2.
Couldn't agree more. Will be staying far away next season.
The MIB/William reveal should have been a lot more surprising to me.
and thought that the plot really stepped up into another gear during the last 3 episodes. The acting, music, cinematography were all great too. I think a lot of the critics who didn't get behind the show just didn't have the patience to see the story develop.
One thing I regret though is reading episode discussions regarding this show. The various fan theories had most of the stuff figured out from the beginning and it didn't lessen the impact of the big reveals somewhat. That sort of speculation is natural and inherent to any discussion thread but it certainly didn't enhance my viewing experience this season and I'll keep that in mind for season 2.
I agree to an extent since I don't actually think the show was hiding William/MIB or Arnold/Bernard. There were too many clues and going back to previous episodes, some of the stuff each character says are dead giveaways.
I think we are at a point in time where audiences want to figure everything out the second they don't understand something, so staying off message boards is a must. But, I think Nolan knows this and didn't try to trick us. He left clues throughout the entire show and didn't pull a big switch that made little sense just to fuck with everyone (which is the sign of a shitty story teller). Whoever edited the show should win an award because the misdirection is all in the sequence.
and thought that the plot really stepped up into another gear during the last 3 episodes. The acting, music, cinematography were all great too. I think a lot of the critics who didn't get behind the show just didn't have the patience to see the story develop.
One thing I regret though is reading episode discussions regarding this show. The various fan theories had most of the stuff figured out from the beginning and it didn't lessen the impact of the big reveals somewhat. That sort of speculation is natural and inherent to any discussion thread but it certainly didn't enhance my viewing experience this season and I'll keep that in mind for season 2.
Metnut, I hear what you are saying. On shows like GoT I hate spoilers, especially when they were coming in the earlier seasons from people who had read the GRR Martin books.
But here since the stories are so complex and the writing style of the Nolans is so non standard almost to be abstract (multiple timelines, flashbacks/hallucinations mixed in with reality), I don't mind the speculation by others who are (hopefully) guessing just like me. It's like having a manual to follow or being in a study group with friends who are pointing out things you may have missed.
since it isn't speculative, they are flat out information leaks. I used to avoid all GoT message boards since it always ends up with a major giveaway.
This show is just different. Like I said we have all the information already, just theories on how its all pieced together is what most of what I read was doing. The Man in Black not having a name was reason enough for a viewer to be suspicious of his identity. He also says a lot in those first few episodes that give him away as well.
what song plays on the piano when Maeve wakes up in the salon?
That's Amy Winehouse's Back to Black if we're thinking of the same scene. You mean the one with the new Clementine, right?
It's not that one. It starts with a baseline and is on every time Maeve wakes up back in town after being killed. Probably the most used song on the show.
comes down to a matter of preference. I agree "spoilers" are much worse on something like Game of Thrones (actual spoilers) than with Westworld (people trying to, and succeeding in, putting things together).
It just lessened my enjoyment of the show a little bit to know about Bernard being a host, that he was based of the park's creator, the two timelines/man in black's origin, all only a couple episodes into the show. I understand that a lot of people might like the roadmap since if you're not following along the show can feel all over the place. Just a matter of preference.
Did anyone else think they were playing "exit music for a film" by Radiohead toward the end of the finale?
Why Sylvester (the other tech) didn't shut down Maeve when he had the chance.
The part where Felix worries that he's actually a host was hilarious.
I didn't think he got the chance? Felix gave her the admin privileges before Sylvester had a chance to shut her down, no?
Or are you talking about something I missed in the finale?
Either way, I can buy Felix and Sylvester going along with her until they arrive and see that she's actually killed somebody. You'd think that would cross the line. But I guess they're supposed to be scared for their lives as well? I dunno- I thought it odd- I figured they would abandon her/be killed by her once she started killing their co-workers.
It starts with a baseline and is on every time Maeve wakes up back in town after being killed. Probably the most used song on the show.
The most used song has to be "Sweetwater" - a.k.a. "The Train Song", though it might as well be called "Teddy's Theme" or "Groundhog Day". Serious earworm, for something plinked out on an out-of-tune upright piano. Great use of train sounds and musical cliches from old westerns.
Why Sylvester (the other tech) didn't shut down Maeve when he had the chance.
The part where Felix worries that he's actually a host was hilarious.
I didn't think he got the chance? Felix gave her the admin privileges before Sylvester had a chance to shut her down, no?
Or are you talking about something I missed in the finale?
Either way, I can buy Felix and Sylvester going along with her until they arrive and see that she's actually killed somebody. You'd think that would cross the line. But I guess they're supposed to be scared for their lives as well? I dunno- I thought it odd- I figured they would abandon her/be killed by her once she started killing their co-workers.
Not in the finale, but where Felix reboots her in an earlier episode.
The different worlds. SW was more then likely for Samari World for the majestic time period in Asia or MW for mid evil world for Europe. Lots of people that liked the movie clamoured for the sequels to take place in different settings, so I see this as an omage to them.
Why was William never phased by getting shot? He gets shot in Sweetwater when he's younger and Teddy shoots him multiple times on two different occasions (at Dolores' house in the first ep and then again in the Finale)
He gets shot again at the end of the finale and again, it barely phases him.
RE: Did anyone else notice the letters on the doors
Why was William never phased by getting shot? He gets shot in Sweetwater when he's younger and Teddy shoots him multiple times on two different occasions (at Dolores' house in the first ep and then again in the Finale)
He gets shot again at the end of the finale and again, it barely phases him.
The first bunch he knew he couldn't die due to the Host/Human rules. The last shot he definitely felt it, but it proved what he was looking for so it was sheer excitement that his journey wasn't dead in the water.
Why was William never phased by getting shot? He gets shot in Sweetwater when he's younger and Teddy shoots him multiple times on two different occasions (at Dolores' house in the first ep and then again in the Finale)
He gets shot again at the end of the finale and again, it barely phases him.
Its a good question. The last shot he takes to the arm does seem to draw blood which none of the prior instances did. Maybe there is some programming both in the hosts and the weapons that make the bullets non fatal if a host is shooting at a guest and at the end the hosts were able to override that programming?
Why was William never phased by getting shot? He gets shot in Sweetwater when he's younger and Teddy shoots him multiple times on two different occasions (at Dolores' house in the first ep and then again in the Finale)
He gets shot again at the end of the finale and again, it barely phases him.
The first bunch he knew he couldn't die due to the Host/Human rules. The last shot he definitely felt it, but it proved what he was looking for so it was sheer excitement that his journey wasn't dead in the water.
My impression was always not that the humans in the park were immune to gunshots from hosts, just that the hosts were programmed to never shoot to kill them. We see it with Dolores a few times.. she can't pull the trigger on him because her programming won't allow. But for some reason Teddy shoots him on multiple occasions.
there were a bunch of hosts who have shot at William but none of them ever hit him. I think with Delores she was never programmed to be violent but Teddy was as her designated protector.
I think it's that the Westworld guns are designed to not hurt the humans. It's why Ford and Arnold leave Dolores with that specific gun towards the end.. the one she kills Ford with. I think it's the same one she killed Arnold with... it's the one he planted in her drawer and buried in her yard for her to keep finding so she'd remember. I think that gun is from the outside world.
I think it's that the Westworld guns are designed to not hurt the humans. It's why Ford and Arnold leave Dolores with that specific gun towards the end.. the one she kills Ford with. I think it's the same one she killed Arnold with... it's the one he planted in her drawer and buried in her yard for her to keep finding so she'd remember. I think that gun is from the outside world.
Makes sense. I originally thought it was planted to start getting Delores to think back on her past but you could be right.
I think it's that the Westworld guns are designed to not hurt the humans. It's why Ford and Arnold leave Dolores with that specific gun towards the end.. the one she kills Ford with. I think it's the same one she killed Arnold with... it's the one he planted in her drawer and buried in her yard for her to keep finding so she'd remember. I think that gun is from the outside world.
Yeah- the guns in WW only fire real bullets at hosts. It's some sort of BB that it fires at guests.
If you notice, when the park is new and William is young, the guns packed a bigger punch than the ones in the present- which don't even cause him to flinch. The first time he's shot in the flashback sequences he has a hell of a welt- when Teddy shoots him in ep1, it's like he doesn't even feel it. I thought that was a nice touch to show how the parks technology and safety has improved over the years.
Completely agree. He will be back in flash backs or host forms.
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In comment 13249534 5BowlsSoon said:
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This was the twist because up until last night, we never thought that. We all thought only Arnold cared about that and that Ford in fact was out to sabotage ARNOLD for this. Fooled us.
Obviously Ford planned Maeve's escape but apparently his planning did not mean she was to leave the park at that moment because she turned around to go look for her daughter. I suppose her daughter can reach consciousness too given time.
I'm not sure MIB was killed. He was shot at in the shoulder so I'm not sure why they wouldn't finish the job.
Do i think Ford was really killed and not a Ford android. Yes, although I suppose it is possible the previous poster is correct in what he said. It just seems like a better way to go, seems more honorable for Ford truly to be a Christ like figure and die for his creation.
Ford was 100% killed. However, there could be a chance that he created a host with his storyline and what not somewhere.
The whole point of this episode was to show that Arnold was wrong. He thought Delores was sentient when she completed the maze the first time.
We realize in this episode that she is full conscious when she realizes the voice in her head was actually her own.
Ford somehow new this when Arnold brought this up to him, but Arnold continues with his massicare plan that includes himself, except he fucked up because he had Delores kill a bunch of hosts and himself. No once cares about a bunch of hosts being killed.
Ford on the other hand knows he is about to lose control of his baby. Much like Arnold lost his son and decides it's time to unleash the sentiants to show if he can't control them then no one will.
He stages another massicare, but this time there a bunch of humans there as an audience. We know Ford dies and other humans in the audience, but not sure if it's everyone. This will essentially shut all the parks down.
He asked earlier "how do you know I won't take my ball and go home?" He knew they were conscious and once he knew they were going to go through with removing him he decided to let the robots live and be sentient.
First- not a reply to this comment but the one after: Hopkins is signed on for season 2. Whether that's flashbacks of him as a host of he's not dead remains to be seen.
Ford losing control had nothing to do with him helping the hosts become sentient. He clearly states that after Delores went on her spree that he realized that Arnold was correct. He's been helping them become sentient the whole time.
I agree with your last statement as well. I don't think Arnold had made it to the finish line as he thought he did and it took Ford 35 years without Arnold to complete it. With Arnold it probably would have been less time. I also think he was waiting to for the perfect time to do the mic drop out of WW and it's no coincidence that it happened just as he was being forced to retire.
That is good news! His presence adds considerable weight to the cast and story.
Ford also knew that the hosts needed more time and was a caretaker of sorts. Once he saw that the work was once again going to be threatened after he was ousted, he knew that setting them loose was the only way to buy more time.
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In comment 13250072 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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In comment 13249534 5BowlsSoon said:
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This was the twist because up until last night, we never thought that. We all thought only Arnold cared about that and that Ford in fact was out to sabotage ARNOLD for this. Fooled us.
Obviously Ford planned Maeve's escape but apparently his planning did not mean she was to leave the park at that moment because she turned around to go look for her daughter. I suppose her daughter can reach consciousness too given time.
I'm not sure MIB was killed. He was shot at in the shoulder so I'm not sure why they wouldn't finish the job.
Do i think Ford was really killed and not a Ford android. Yes, although I suppose it is possible the previous poster is correct in what he said. It just seems like a better way to go, seems more honorable for Ford truly to be a Christ like figure and die for his creation.
Ford was 100% killed. However, there could be a chance that he created a host with his storyline and what not somewhere.
The whole point of this episode was to show that Arnold was wrong. He thought Delores was sentient when she completed the maze the first time.
We realize in this episode that she is full conscious when she realizes the voice in her head was actually her own.
Ford somehow new this when Arnold brought this up to him, but Arnold continues with his massicare plan that includes himself, except he fucked up because he had Delores kill a bunch of hosts and himself. No once cares about a bunch of hosts being killed.
Ford on the other hand knows he is about to lose control of his baby. Much like Arnold lost his son and decides it's time to unleash the sentiants to show if he can't control them then no one will.
He stages another massicare, but this time there a bunch of humans there as an audience. We know Ford dies and other humans in the audience, but not sure if it's everyone. This will essentially shut all the parks down.
He asked earlier "how do you know I won't take my ball and go home?" He knew they were conscious and once he knew they were going to go through with removing him he decided to let the robots live and be sentient.
First- not a reply to this comment but the one after: Hopkins is signed on for season 2. Whether that's flashbacks of him as a host of he's not dead remains to be seen.
Ford losing control had nothing to do with him helping the hosts become sentient. He clearly states that after Delores went on her spree that he realized that Arnold was correct. He's been helping them become sentient the whole time.
I agree with your last statement as well. I don't think Arnold had made it to the finish line as he thought he did and it took Ford 35 years without Arnold to complete it. With Arnold it probably would have been less time. I also think he was waiting to for the perfect time to do the mic drop out of WW and it's no coincidence that it happened just as he was being forced to retire.
I think the name of the episode, The Bicameral Mind, is a reference that it took both Ford and Arnold for the Hosts to achieve full consciousness. Arnold thought Delores had done so after she first completed the Maze. We know that isn't the case now, and had Arnold had his way, the Hosts most likely would have simply been destroyed. Arnold had the vision but not the patience. Ford was a Doubting Thomas who, having seen the light, knew it would take decades to prepare the Hosts to reach "enlightenment". Despite being the better programmer Arnold's humanity needed to be paired with Ford's patience, subversive and ruthless as it was at times, to see the plan through.
From what perspective are those scenes being shown? (FYI: Just wondering and not complaining. I think the final episode was artfully done and I have no issue with the 2 timelines-but I was wondering if I missed something that would account for Deloris memory scenes without Deloris).
From what perspective are those scenes being shown? (FYI: Just wondering and not complaining. I think the final episode was artfully done and I have no issue with the 2 timelines-but I was wondering if I missed something that would account for Deloris memory scenes without Deloris).
I think only the Delores centric stuff when she's remembering from present back to then are just "her" memories. The rest are just a plain narrative of what happened back then. They spliced them together to make it confusing.
Why in the world were those two Techs helping Maeve? I get at first entertaining her new found conscience and tweaking her inner programming. Although as time went on and Maeve demanded "Super User" level access to her core programming, why not shut her off? I never understood their motives in giving Maeve everything she ever wanted, besides her blackmail threats, which they could easily got around if they wiped her memories. Unless they are androids also, assisting Maeve in another of Dr. Ford's storylines.
Switcheroo?,
Why in the world were those two Techs helping Maeve? I get at first entertaining her new found conscience and tweaking her inner programming. Although as time went on and Maeve demanded "Super User" level access to her core programming, why not shut her off? I never understood their motives in giving Maeve everything she ever wanted, besides her blackmail threats, which they could easily got around if they wiped her memories. Unless they are androids also, assisting Maeve in another of Dr. Ford's storylines.
Did anyone notice that the "laser" device used to heal Bernard's head and Delores'mouth wounds was the same device used to treat Sylvester's throat wound ? Is it possible that Sylvester is a host too ?
Why in the world were those two Techs helping Maeve? I get at first entertaining her new found conscience and tweaking her inner programming. Although as time went on and Maeve demanded "Super User" level access to her core programming, why not shut her off? I never understood their motives in giving Maeve everything she ever wanted, besides her blackmail threats, which they could easily got around if they wiped her memories. Unless they are androids also, assisting Maeve in another of Dr. Ford's storylines.
I took it as Logan is dead. William didn't kill him outright but he sent him off naked with his hands tied together, odds are he died of exposure. The conversation about his (Logan's) father needing someone more reliable clinched it for me, as in he'll turn to William, his son in law, to run the company after his actual son dies.
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What happened to Logan? Did he get lost in the park after William sent him off on that horse?
Why in the world were those two Techs helping Maeve? I get at first entertaining her new found conscience and tweaking her inner programming. Although as time went on and Maeve demanded "Super User" level access to her core programming, why not shut her off? I never understood their motives in giving Maeve everything she ever wanted, besides her blackmail threats, which they could easily got around if they wiped her memories. Unless they are androids also, assisting Maeve in another of Dr. Ford's storylines.
Did anyone notice that the "laser" device used to heal Bernard's head and Delores'mouth wounds was the same device used to treat Sylvester's throat wound ? Is it possible that Sylvester is a host too ?
The hosts aren't mechanical at all anymore. They're organic just like humans with the only exception being part of parts of their brains that allow them to be programmed.
Turns out 3D printing organize was cheaper than making all of those parts.
Not what the show runners meant with bicameral mind, I agree it's a reference to Arnold/Ford.
Why?
I'm still fuzzy on the purpose of beaming data out of the park. I guess that's a topic for Season 2.
Once the comic-book violence with Hector and Armistice was out of the way, I liked the wrap-up of Maeve's arc. It was, literally, impossible for her to leave. Ford has other plans for her; and like Bernard and Dolores, she will have to suffer more before that plan is fully revealed.
Granted, it was counter-intuitive for Maeve to cut off Bernard's warning when she had just woken him up to get his insight; but she couldn't very well let Bernard tell us what would happen on the train.
Looking at Sunday's episode again, I noted the same scene that BBB did where Maeve and Bernard are in Cold Storage and he is telling her that someone changed her story to "escape" and she doesn't believe him. He says: yes I can even tell you the steps that you were supposed to follow; recruit hosts, get on the train and when you get to the mainland...she cuts him off and breaks the pad. So the plan was for her to stay on the train.
I think this is interesting because I wonder if the Maeve awaken was actually part of Fords plan or was the effort to get her out of the park another Charlotte/Theresa plan for Delos to once again try to get the IP out of the park and away from Ford. Was Maeve their plan A and Abernathy Plan B (the host with the uplink that bashed in it's own head in may have be plan A1).
Ford probably new what they were doing with Maeve (and Abernathy) and used Maeve's cornerstone and overwhelming compulsion to find her daughter to pull her off the train and foil the Delos plan.
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The episode provided a Unified Theory of Everything. Most of the "present-day" story line has been the opening scene of Ford's new narrative. He planned it all, including his own death. The multiple timelines were basically Dolores's internal journey - scripted by Ford. Maeve's awakening and escape? Ford again. And yes, William is the Man in Black, but that sort of detail looks pretty small now, and Will/MiB seems to have been another Ford pawn. I think the MiB will wind up mattering mostly because, if he survives the massacre, his emotional investment in the hosts, coupled with his ownership stake, might save the park from getting nuked. And again, that's probably just what Ford has in mind.
I'm still fuzzy on the purpose of beaming data out of the park. I guess that's a topic for Season 2.
Once the comic-book violence with Hector and Armistice was out of the way, I liked the wrap-up of Maeve's arc. It was, literally, impossible for her to leave. Ford has other plans for her; and like Bernard and Dolores, she will have to suffer more before that plan is fully revealed.
Granted, it was counter-intuitive for Maeve to cut off Bernard's warning when she had just woken him up to get his insight; but she couldn't very well let Bernard tell us what would happen on the train.
Looking at Sunday's episode again, I noted the same scene that BBB did where Maeve and Bernard are in Cold Storage and he is telling her that someone changed her story to "escape" and she doesn't believe him. He says: yes I can even tell you the steps that you were supposed to follow; recruit hosts, get on the train and when you get to the mainland...she cuts him off and breaks the pad. So the plan was for her to stay on the train.
I think this is interesting because I wonder if the Maeve awaken was actually part of Fords plan or was the effort to get her out of the park another Charlotte/Theresa plan for Delos to once again try to get the IP out of the park and away from Ford. Was Maeve their plan A and Abernathy Plan B (the host with the uplink that bashed in it's own head in may have be plan A1).
Ford probably new what they were doing with Maeve (and Abernathy) and used Maeve's cornerstone and overwhelming compulsion to find her daughter to pull her off the train and foil the Delos plan.
I took her going back to WestWorld as a sign that she was making a choice to go back to get her daughter. Your theory makes a ton of sense.
One thing I regret though is reading episode discussions regarding this show. The various fan theories had most of the stuff figured out from the beginning and it didn't lessen the impact of the big reveals somewhat. That sort of speculation is natural and inherent to any discussion thread but it certainly didn't enhance my viewing experience this season and I'll keep that in mind for season 2.
One thing I regret though is reading episode discussions regarding this show. The various fan theories had most of the stuff figured out from the beginning and it didn't lessen the impact of the big reveals somewhat. That sort of speculation is natural and inherent to any discussion thread but it certainly didn't enhance my viewing experience this season and I'll keep that in mind for season 2.
Couldn't agree more. Will be staying far away next season.
The MIB/William reveal should have been a lot more surprising to me.
One thing I regret though is reading episode discussions regarding this show. The various fan theories had most of the stuff figured out from the beginning and it didn't lessen the impact of the big reveals somewhat. That sort of speculation is natural and inherent to any discussion thread but it certainly didn't enhance my viewing experience this season and I'll keep that in mind for season 2.
I agree to an extent since I don't actually think the show was hiding William/MIB or Arnold/Bernard. There were too many clues and going back to previous episodes, some of the stuff each character says are dead giveaways.
I think we are at a point in time where audiences want to figure everything out the second they don't understand something, so staying off message boards is a must. But, I think Nolan knows this and didn't try to trick us. He left clues throughout the entire show and didn't pull a big switch that made little sense just to fuck with everyone (which is the sign of a shitty story teller). Whoever edited the show should win an award because the misdirection is all in the sequence.
One thing I regret though is reading episode discussions regarding this show. The various fan theories had most of the stuff figured out from the beginning and it didn't lessen the impact of the big reveals somewhat. That sort of speculation is natural and inherent to any discussion thread but it certainly didn't enhance my viewing experience this season and I'll keep that in mind for season 2.
Metnut, I hear what you are saying. On shows like GoT I hate spoilers, especially when they were coming in the earlier seasons from people who had read the GRR Martin books.
But here since the stories are so complex and the writing style of the Nolans is so non standard almost to be abstract (multiple timelines, flashbacks/hallucinations mixed in with reality), I don't mind the speculation by others who are (hopefully) guessing just like me. It's like having a manual to follow or being in a study group with friends who are pointing out things you may have missed.
This show is just different. Like I said we have all the information already, just theories on how its all pieced together is what most of what I read was doing. The Man in Black not having a name was reason enough for a viewer to be suspicious of his identity. He also says a lot in those first few episodes that give him away as well.
The part where Felix worries that he's actually a host was hilarious.
That's Amy Winehouse's Back to Black if we're thinking of the same scene. You mean the one with the new Clementine, right?
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what song plays on the piano when Maeve wakes up in the salon?
That's Amy Winehouse's Back to Black if we're thinking of the same scene. You mean the one with the new Clementine, right?
It's not that one. It starts with a baseline and is on every time Maeve wakes up back in town after being killed. Probably the most used song on the show.
It just lessened my enjoyment of the show a little bit to know about Bernard being a host, that he was based of the park's creator, the two timelines/man in black's origin, all only a couple episodes into the show. I understand that a lot of people might like the roadmap since if you're not following along the show can feel all over the place. Just a matter of preference.
Did anyone else think they were playing "exit music for a film" by Radiohead toward the end of the finale?
The part where Felix worries that he's actually a host was hilarious.
I didn't think he got the chance? Felix gave her the admin privileges before Sylvester had a chance to shut her down, no?
Or are you talking about something I missed in the finale?
Either way, I can buy Felix and Sylvester going along with her until they arrive and see that she's actually killed somebody. You'd think that would cross the line. But I guess they're supposed to be scared for their lives as well? I dunno- I thought it odd- I figured they would abandon her/be killed by her once she started killing their co-workers.
Did anyone else think they were playing "exit music for a film" by Radiohead toward the end of the finale?
they definitely were
The most used song has to be "Sweetwater" - a.k.a. "The Train Song", though it might as well be called "Teddy's Theme" or "Groundhog Day". Serious earworm, for something plinked out on an out-of-tune upright piano. Great use of train sounds and musical cliches from old westerns.
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Why Sylvester (the other tech) didn't shut down Maeve when he had the chance.
The part where Felix worries that he's actually a host was hilarious.
I didn't think he got the chance? Felix gave her the admin privileges before Sylvester had a chance to shut her down, no?
Or are you talking about something I missed in the finale?
Either way, I can buy Felix and Sylvester going along with her until they arrive and see that she's actually killed somebody. You'd think that would cross the line. But I guess they're supposed to be scared for their lives as well? I dunno- I thought it odd- I figured they would abandon her/be killed by her once she started killing their co-workers.
Not in the finale, but where Felix reboots her in an earlier episode.
+1. Can't wait for season 2.
He gets shot again at the end of the finale and again, it barely phases him.
I just saw SW which I assumed was for Samuri World
I didn't see an EW
He gets shot again at the end of the finale and again, it barely phases him.
The first bunch he knew he couldn't die due to the Host/Human rules. The last shot he definitely felt it, but it proved what he was looking for so it was sheer excitement that his journey wasn't dead in the water.
He gets shot again at the end of the finale and again, it barely phases him.
Its a good question. The last shot he takes to the arm does seem to draw blood which none of the prior instances did. Maybe there is some programming both in the hosts and the weapons that make the bullets non fatal if a host is shooting at a guest and at the end the hosts were able to override that programming?
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Why was William never phased by getting shot? He gets shot in Sweetwater when he's younger and Teddy shoots him multiple times on two different occasions (at Dolores' house in the first ep and then again in the Finale)
He gets shot again at the end of the finale and again, it barely phases him.
The first bunch he knew he couldn't die due to the Host/Human rules. The last shot he definitely felt it, but it proved what he was looking for so it was sheer excitement that his journey wasn't dead in the water.
My impression was always not that the humans in the park were immune to gunshots from hosts, just that the hosts were programmed to never shoot to kill them. We see it with Dolores a few times.. she can't pull the trigger on him because her programming won't allow. But for some reason Teddy shoots him on multiple occasions.
Makes sense. I originally thought it was planted to start getting Delores to think back on her past but you could be right.
Link - ( New Window )
Yeah- the guns in WW only fire real bullets at hosts. It's some sort of BB that it fires at guests.
If you notice, when the park is new and William is young, the guns packed a bigger punch than the ones in the present- which don't even cause him to flinch. The first time he's shot in the flashback sequences he has a hell of a welt- when Teddy shoots him in ep1, it's like he doesn't even feel it. I thought that was a nice touch to show how the parks technology and safety has improved over the years.