for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Let's face it. Reese whiffed on Flowers at 9.

TheGhostofBlueGuy : 12/5/2016 12:20 am
I know it is easy to look back in retrospect and say Flowers should not have been the pick, but the truth is what it is. Flowers might be the worst LT in the league and it showed today. Old Man Harrison gave him a clinic today.

You knew it was going to be a long day on the hold in the endzone. His technique is shit. What is with the head down and grab move? Is that what that is called? He seems lazy and looks to be uncoachable at this point.

A knee jerk pick in response to Dallas just killing it in the draft with OL. Pugh was a semi reach as well although he has acquitted himself nicely, injuries aside. Richburg has regressed terribly. We all want to laud Reese for his 1st and 2nd round draft prowess, but it isn't all perfect. I'm not bashing him. Just stating the obvious.

Danny Shelton would have looked good here. Oh, and lazy Andrus Peat is looking good in N.O.

Should've. Could've. Would've.

Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
He's just 22 years old  
rdt288 : 12/5/2016 7:42 am : link
Have some patience

That said he was awful yesterday
Who says he can succeed at RT?  
Renton : 12/5/2016 7:46 am : link
His technique is atrocious. At what point will he learn the basic technique of being a tackle? He sure did not learn in college. Maybe he tunes out all of his coaches, because it's now more than halfway through his 2nd season, and he still stinks. He actually looks like Frankenstein. He does the same exact thing - lunges forward with his arms straight out and his footwork is slow and plodding, hence Frankenstein.

So, is he really going to succeed at RT? I'm not so sure.
RE: Flowers is not pretty but  
SethFromAstoria : 12/5/2016 7:53 am : link
In comment 13249185 bronxgiant said:
Quote:
this is all on Eli and the coach. The line was getting off the ball and giving the running backs room to run yet all we did was stupid pass after pass. He had plenty of time. Shoot the Pitt QB had pressure the whole day also and did not shit the bed.


the running backs ran 15 less times than Bell. He had plenty of time my ass. Watch the game again. And yet the hold for the safety doesn't happen if the ball is on their side of the field on a defensive PI
RE: Flowers is not pretty but  
dep026 : 12/5/2016 7:54 am : link
In comment 13249185 bronxgiant said:
Quote:
this is all on Eli and the coach. The line was getting off the ball and giving the running backs room to run yet all we did was stupid pass after pass. He had plenty of time. Shoot the Pitt QB had pressure the whole day also and did not shit the bed.


Flower gave up...

7 pressures
5 hurries
Holding penalty for a safety
A sack
False start...


But other than that... it's all eli's fault.
RE: RE: Flowers is not pretty but  
Renton : 12/5/2016 7:59 am : link
In comment 13249222 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13249185 bronxgiant said:


Quote:


this is all on Eli and the coach. The line was getting off the ball and giving the running backs room to run yet all we did was stupid pass after pass. He had plenty of time. Shoot the Pitt QB had pressure the whole day also and did not shit the bed.



Flower gave up...

7 pressures
5 hurries
Holding penalty for a safety
A sack
False start...


But other than that... it's all eli's fault.


Manning was uncomfortable because his line is a sieve. He's under constant pressure and knows he has about 2 seconds to get rid of the ball. It's a joke.
Well i will giv ehim one pass  
weeg in the bronx : 12/5/2016 8:01 am : link
that was not a hold in the end zone. Other than that he was awful. And I agree - the fault was not in drafting him but in insisting in playing him at a position he was not ready to play.
I  
Big Blue '56 : 12/5/2016 8:03 am : link
will let him grow at his young age and assess in a year or two..

Period
It will likely take the off season  
Jim in Forest Hills : 12/5/2016 8:05 am : link
but I think they should look at Flowers at ORG. He'd get just as exposed at ORT, but now he;d be learning the get off on the other foot. Next camp, I'd plug him into ORG to see if he has a chance to be special there.
RE: I  
drkenneth : 12/5/2016 8:14 am : link
In comment 13249235 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
will let him grow at his young age and assess in a year or two..

Period


Yup.
Meanwhile in Seattle  
HomerJones45 : 12/5/2016 8:23 am : link
They destroyed Carolina with a UDFA rookie LT whose entire college football career was 28 snaps at W KY as a TE because he was a basketball player.

Meanwhile we get to watch our "mean nasty" #1 pick flounder around during what appears to be an interminable learning period.

I hate joining the mob mentality especially after a loss,  
Diver_Down : 12/5/2016 8:26 am : link
but I'm growing tired of defending Flowers. He had a gutsy performance playing last year on a high ankle sprain which provided a reasonable excuse for his inability to handle speed. But this year his technique has not improved. He doesn't anchor and keep his feet under him, instead he ends up bending and lowering his head which leads to desperation holds when he is beat.

He's young and plays with a mean streak so I still think there is hope for him. But unless he dedicates himself to fixing his technique, there is no future for him at any tackle position. Nowadays, speed rushers are not just relegated to the RDE. I think he would benefit moving to the interior.
always thought  
mdc1 : 12/5/2016 8:26 am : link
some have questioned Flowers work ethic unless mistaken.
Why do some  
ryanmkeane : 12/5/2016 8:27 am : link
people literally want Flowers to be bad? Are you hoping that he sucks every game so that you can make threads like this to call out Reese? Why don't you start a thread every time Beckham wins a game for us? Or Collins? Where are you then?
How Much Longer  
NJLCO : 12/5/2016 8:33 am : link
Flowers has how much longer to prove he is our LT
Jerry has how many more whiff's or miss assignments?
When Pugh comes back put him at LT and put the guy from up north at RG and use Beatty as an extra blocker. How much more could that hurt us? Flowers should not be starting period and I do not care how old he is or do we think that in the next 7 days a light switch is going to come on and he gets it? As O'Hare said over a month ago that this guy is a coach killer. He is going to get another OL coach fired because Reese has to cover his ass on the pick
He was the weakest link on the line  
Heisenberg : 12/5/2016 8:37 am : link
yesterday.
I  
AcidTest : 12/5/2016 8:37 am : link
agree with the general sentiment that Flowers is probably not a LT. It is just his second year, but his technique is still atrocious, and his feet in pass protection are almost as bad as those of one James Brewer. Bad feet are a common problem with almost all our OL. We don't have any "dancing elephants."

The Giants should give Flowers more help, or bench him in favor of Beatty. Maybe next year they can try him at guard or perhaps RT, but I don't think he has a future at tackle, certainly not LT.

I also agree that RIchburg has regressed. He gets no push, but does get pushed back a lot.

Poor OL play is the biggest reason the offense is moribund.
i don't understand  
gmenatlarge : 12/5/2016 8:47 am : link
why they can't get him some help when he is struggling with either a chip by a RB or TE.
HomerJones  
atb63 : 12/5/2016 8:49 am : link
RE: Seattle OT, two words - Tom Cable
evaluations  
area junc : 12/5/2016 8:49 am : link
I agree our front office seems completely lost. we forced the Flowers and Richburg pick. Pugh is just OK but is a welcome addition. The Giants should've recognized Flowers hideous technique and A-not drafted him at #9 and/or B-played him at G early until if/when his technique improved. The Giants started Petitgout at G too. The Rams quickly recognized Greg Robinson wasn't getting it done at T and moved him to G. you do what you have to do, you don't try to save face.

I've argued that since we do nothing but run up the middle, we should have 2 pure pass blocking OTs and some blasters inside. The OTs aren't asked to do anything more than steer DEs wide on run plays. The real work is being done by the interior players and that's where Flowers could really help us - rooting DTs out, and creating some creases inside. But no, we just have to keep him at LT.
I agree with those saying  
JFIB : 12/5/2016 8:59 am : link
Move Flowers to RG. We may find the road grader we have needed. His technical flaws would be less of an issue there and god awful JJ could go to the bench. Beatty to LT and EF to RG.
RE: evaluations  
siena16 : 12/5/2016 9:01 am : link
In comment 13249342 area junc said:
Quote:
I agree our front office seems completely lost. we forced the Flowers and Richburg pick. Pugh is just OK but is a welcome addition. The Giants should've recognized Flowers hideous technique and A-not drafted him at #9 and/or B-played him at G early until if/when his technique improved. The Giants started Petitgout at G too. The Rams quickly recognized Greg Robinson wasn't getting it done at T and moved him to G. you do what you have to do, you don't try to save face.

I've argued that since we do nothing but run up the middle, we should have 2 pure pass blocking OTs and some blasters inside. The OTs aren't asked to do anything more than steer DEs wide on run plays. The real work is being done by the interior players and that's where Flowers could really help us - rooting DTs out, and creating some creases inside. But no, we just have to keep him at LT.


I've been saying Reese should have been shown the door last year. His lack of leadership and the Defense he left a two time super Bowl coach to play with last year was an embarrassment. His drafts on the O-Line have been below average
My optimal OL based on current personnel.  
area junc : 12/5/2016 9:07 am : link
Pugh - Brett Jones - Richburg - Flowers - Hart
RE: Meanwhile in Seattle  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/5/2016 9:14 am : link
In comment 13249269 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
They destroyed Carolina with a UDFA rookie LT whose entire college football career was 28 snaps at W KY as a TE because he was a basketball player.

Meanwhile we get to watch our "mean nasty" #1 pick flounder around during what appears to be an interminable learning period.


They whiffed badly on Russell Okung, and their offensive line isn't good either. Wilson being a mobile QB helps them a lot. Not really a grass is greener situation.
RE: My optimal OL based on current personnel.  
AcidTest : 12/5/2016 9:16 am : link
In comment 13249379 area junc said:
Quote:
Pugh - Brett Jones - Richburg - Flowers - Hart


Agreed. Keep Beatty as a backup. He hasn't played much this year, but I'd bring him back next year as a good veteran who can step in and play LT in an emergency. He'd be a nice insurance policy. I might also keep Newhouse as a backup guard and spot tackle. Then get another interior lineman in FA or the draft.
Rt  
eliapple : 12/5/2016 9:36 am : link
Will be better. ..and a better coach
While we watch the window close  
Bluesbreaker : 12/5/2016 10:17 am : link
RE: I
drkenneth : 8:14 am : link : reply
In comment 13249235 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
will let him grow at his young age and assess in a year or two..

Period


Yup.

Then we get to see the sound move up in the draft Nassib
It's that 70's Show all over again ... Too bad Jerry doesn't have another 200 million to fix the offense ...
RE: While we watch the window close  
drkenneth : 12/5/2016 10:20 am : link
In comment 13249593 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
RE: I
drkenneth : 8:14 am : link : reply
In comment 13249235 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
will let him grow at his young age and assess in a year or two..

Period


Yup.

Then we get to see the sound move up in the draft Nassib
It's that 70's Show all over again ... Too bad Jerry doesn't have another 200 million to fix the offense ...


What the fuck are you babbling about?
To those who want Flowers moved to RT  
Dave on the UWS : 12/5/2016 10:21 am : link
look at why he is failing at LT. I don't think his feet are as bad as some of you, but his body position is poor especially against quickness and speed. His overall technique is a mess, just look at the holding in the endzone. He grabs the guy around the helmet while back peddling? That type of technique will not be helped by moving him to the other side. If they are going to be honest about it, RG is where he should be tried. The problem though is he may not accept the "demotion". If his head isn't in the right place he will succeed nowhere.
RE: Anyone can make a bad pick and book is not closed on Flowers  
Section331 : 12/5/2016 10:23 am : link
In comment 13249079 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
So I'm not going to kill Reese for the pick.

What was idiotic, though, was insisting that Flowers was the LT this year come hell or highwater and having no backup plan. Anyone who saw Flowers last year knew there was a possibility he could struggle. It is ridiculous to say otherwise.

For some reason, there seems to be this arrogance in the Giant's organization regarding their evaluations--as if somehow they are smarter than everyone. Their complete mis-evaluation of the OL shows how far from the truth that is.


I wouldn't read too much into the Giants' public insistence that Flowers remain at OLT. It is very possible, even likely, that they knew they would have to move on from him eventually, but didn't want to publicly question him and damage his confidence. And for all we know, maybe Will Beatty is the temporary backup plan until an OLT can be drafted or signed. I've always thought he was better suited to the right side, as did many here, if that is true, I'm pretty sure Giant brass is aware of it as well.
So GhostofBlueGuy = Thats Gold Jerry?  
PatersonPlank : 12/5/2016 10:30 am : link
.
The problem with moving him to OG...  
Milton : 12/5/2016 10:59 am : link
Is that the assignments for interior OL are more complex. More adjustments need to be made at the LOS based on what the defense is showing (i.e., who to help out, where the help is coming from). This is not my opinion, I read it from a scout who said that OG need to be more intelligent than OT. So it could be that Flowers isn't smart enough to play OG. And making that kind of change mid-season could be especially problematic.
Looking more and more  
Carson53 : 12/5/2016 11:00 am : link
like a RT, if they get a decade out at RT, I don't consider
it a wasted pick. If you don't make a decision by the end
of the year though, then it becomes a five year process to find a suitable LT. (Three years on him, plus his replacement). Knowing how they go about things around here
unfortunately, I don't see then making a decision by the
end of the year!
RE: He's just 22 years old  
Milton : 12/5/2016 11:09 am : link
In comment 13249215 rdt288 said:
Quote:
Have some patience.

Does it really matter that he is only 22 years old? It's not like he was a former TE who made the switch his senior year at North Dakota State. Between Miami and Big Blue he has been playing OT for several years and has been coached by very experienced and highly regarded OL coaches.

The Giants fired Pat Flaherty with the hope that another OL coach would make a difference, but he has shown zero improvement. It's 28 games now with the Giants and roughly another 30 games he played OT for Miami. His youth is not the issue.
You Asshole  
Bluesbreaker : 12/5/2016 11:40 am : link
RE: While we watch the window close
drkenneth : 10:20 am : link : reply
In comment 13249593 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
RE: I
drkenneth : 8:14 am : link : reply
In comment 13249235 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
will let him grow at his young age and assess in a year or two..

Period


Yup.

Then we get to see the sound move up in the draft Nassib
It's that 70's Show all over again ... Too bad Jerry doesn't have another 200 million to fix the offense ...


What the fuck are you babbling about?

Every god damn thread you make some snide comment about
the poster . If you don't like it STFU or add something
positive .
The fact that Beatty can't get any burn  
Sonic Youth : 12/5/2016 11:46 am : link
with the atrocious play of Flowers makes you wonder just how bad he looks in practice.
RE: I hated the pick at the time and still do  
Stan in LA : 12/5/2016 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13249206 The_Boss said:
Quote:
No way he was the 9th best player in the 2015 draft. Not even close, especially with Todd Gurley sitting there. And if you take an OT who you project as a LT, he had better possess an elite skill set which will help procure him in becoming a great player. Does anyone truly think Flowers will develop into a great player? His technique is awful and that was his knock going back to Miami. He got by with his size and strength. I don't see it. He's probably a RG in all seriousness.

I'd rather have taken Gurley and allowed Reese to fill out the OL with a different combination of players in subsequent rounds in 2015, this past draft, and FA this past spring.


Todd Gurley???

HAHA.

I guess you haven't watched him this season.
the Flowers pick is a classic example  
Jersey55 : 12/5/2016 4:59 pm : link
of the Giants doing exactly what they say they never do in the draft, REACH..
Rams would have picked Flowers right after us  
David in LA : 12/5/2016 5:07 pm : link
but we reached on the pick. This board becomes rife with dumbassery following a loss.
RE: I don't care about what the coaches think  
clatterbuck : 12/5/2016 5:16 pm : link
In comment 13249125 GeorgeAdams33 said:
Quote:
The last time we saw him Will Beatty was a much better LT than Flowers is right now. Flowers has earned a benching for the rest of this season unless he can beat out someone else in practice. The treatment of Beatty around here has been like shooting ourselves in the foot. I'd also like to see Newhouse remain at LG and Jones at Center. Pugh is obviously hurt worse than they want to admit and Richburg has been getting blown up regularly. If Flowers could beat out Jerry or Hart, great. Richburg should play short yardage FB. He can really run for an O-Lineman.


You lost me at "I don't care what the coaches think." I guess this means you have all the requisite skill, information, experience, judgment, insight on medical information and injury status, to make decisions about NFL offensive linemen individually and as a grouping. Sounds like you're the kind of guy who also "doesn't care what the doctors think" and "doesn't care what the teachers think" and doesn't care what the microbiologists think" because you know more and are more qualified than anyone working in any discipline. This goes beyond opinion into absurdity.
RE: HomerJones  
HomerJones45 : 12/5/2016 5:16 pm : link
In comment 13249341 atb63 said:
Quote:
RE: Seattle OT, two words - Tom Cable
Evidently. Great work.
Most of you are clueless  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 12/5/2016 5:27 pm : link
but that doesn't seem to stop you from spouting ill-informed nonsense.

Flowers has struggled, but shuffling the entire OL around 12 games into the season isn't a magic pill that's going to fix everything. In all likelihood it would make matters worse.

Flowers to guard or RT? That's something you look into in camp, not 12 games in.

Beatty to LT? He hasn't played LT in a very long time. It would be a risky move at best, catastrophic at worst.

This is Madden 2017, you can't shuffle the line and expect everything to just work.

Good lord. The ignorance on display today is incredible.
Should say  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 12/5/2016 5:28 pm : link
This is NOT Madden 2017. ;)
How do we swing and miss on so many O line picks?  
EricJ : 12/5/2016 8:02 pm : link
or... is it a coaching/development thing? It seems that both Pugh and Richburg have regressed since they have been here. How the hell does that happen?
RE: How do we swing and miss on so many O line picks?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/5/2016 9:17 pm : link
In comment 13250997 EricJ said:
Quote:
or... is it a coaching/development thing? It seems that both Pugh and Richburg have regressed since they have been here. How the hell does that happen?


Having down years doesn't mean it's a swing and miss. It's just a down year. Both guys can clearly play.
RE: How do we swing and miss on so many O line picks?  
drkenneth : 12/5/2016 9:30 pm : link
In comment 13250997 EricJ said:
Quote:
or... is it a coaching/development thing? It seems that both Pugh and Richburg have regressed since they have been here. How the hell does that happen?


Pugh has not regressed. He was playing at a high level.
RE: RE: How do we swing and miss on so many O line picks?  
Paulie Walnuts : 12/9/2016 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13251102 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 13250997 EricJ said:


Quote:


or... is it a coaching/development thing? It seems that both Pugh and Richburg have regressed since they have been here. How the hell does that happen?



Pugh has not regressed. He was playing at a high level.


Pugh was drafted to be a Tackle.. he's good at Guard, we still need tackles, so yes, he regressed

looks like Flowers will end up at RG.. we still need a LT
"looks like"  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 12/9/2016 12:26 pm : link
Flowers will move to RG? What are you basing that assertion on? Even if they do move him, it could be to RT, and it will likely depend on the roster, and how things shake out in camp.

That said, Flowers performance this season has been poor. If they like a LT, I don't think Flowers' presence prevents them from picking a LT.
RE: RE: RE: How do we swing and miss on so many O line picks?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/9/2016 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13256736 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:


looks like Flowers will end up at RG..

You literally just made this up
RE: How do we swing and miss on so many O line picks?  
B in ALB : 12/9/2016 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13250997 EricJ said:
Quote:
or... is it a coaching/development thing? It seems that both Pugh and Richburg have regressed since they have been here. How the hell does that happen?


Please explain how Pugh has regressed.
RE: RE: How do we swing and miss on so many O line picks?  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2016 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13256761 B in ALB said:
Quote:
In comment 13250997 EricJ said:


Quote:


or... is it a coaching/development thing? It seems that both Pugh and Richburg have regressed since they have been here. How the hell does that happen?



Please explain how Pugh has regressed.


He has been invisible on the field since week 9.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner