...I see these other Eli threads, figure I may as well make one for me and people who see what I see...
I saw a brutal interception. I saw a few other crappy passes. I saw a couple mediocre passes.
The rest of the game I saw plenty of good things and I think spending time on Eli's "bad season" is boring the hell out of me because it's not true, nor does it discuss the other billion questions that someone should have when you watch this game.
Did Eli Manning play a great game? Well of course not but it's funny how people who watch football all the time can't move past the most basic surface of the loss and point to the reasons they actually lost.
Clearly some people must agree that this was the HC's worst coached game by far. I mean there are things you're seeing that aren't even difficult to question. Why are we averse to kicking field goals? Aggressive is fun. Stupid costs you games. COaches don't kick field goals down 14-0 because they don't like 7 points more than 3. The game changes everytime they score 3, score 3, score 3. Pressure on their offense changes. Their turnovers become massive. Our sacks become massive. Their crappy plays are magnified.
Why are we passing 40 times and running what....4 times? We actually had a semblance of a rushing attack today and the rookie has explosive moments, so instead of giving it a shot, they run the same playbook that they are forced to when they don't. It's a gift for Pitt. I mean this QB we have is superb off playaction and we have been able to and/or chosen to use it what, zero times? And of course that's because we have no running game...yet today it seemed like maybe we had enough of one to TRY a running play on the drive when they get stopped on 4 plays (because again...whats a field goal?). The whole way this game was called offensively was tragic. It may be the only game thus far that we didn't have to sit there and watch the QB win the game when the opposition knows he's throwing it. To put it simply, the coach called a game that he thought he had to when he actually could have realized this game presented a different opportunity.
The defense was at times great. I thought they were fun to watch. There were of course 2 things they did that they will always apparently do: allow 3rd and longs to be completed like its easy, and secondly manage to play a great road game where they are giving the offense chances to win ....until the offense remembers the game started, and scores a TD on a great play. That's when they allow the Steelers right down the field to gain their 2 score lead back instead of maintaining momentum. 14-7....just go out there and play (as they had on so many other drives) angry, tenacious, tough D that would have made Pitt crap themselves and fear a complete shift in the game. But no. Right down the field.
Since you're all bored I'll end this but the last couple things: The refs remained a joke and the tone of the game is set on that ODB offensive PI call. No the game is not decided there but the call is atrocious and it lets Pitt know how they can play. This unstoppable force can embarrass teams and yet suddenly Pitt figured it all out? I haven't seen other threads but I'm sure people complain about ODB complaining...I don't care nor do I blame him for a second, and furthermore there isnt a single other player in the NFL who doesnt complain. Imagine you're a player who catches 10 balls and that's with legal interference. Wouldn't it be frustratng to know what you COULD be doing if they couldn't wrap you up before balls arrive or hold you for 25 yards?
Im looking forward to your replies. I'm sure a lot of you find the expected threads boring. Maybe you agree with some of this or disagree with some interesting reasons. If its ELi or ODB crap please enjoy yourselves in those threads. Why bother to discuss that here?
Lets Go Giants. Week could have been waaaaaay worse. A win next week and this week becomes a sort of boring waste of time.
The flow of the play calling develops zero rhythm, then it's panic time in the 2nd half and all OBJ which the D knows is coming. It's predictable unimaginative stale playcalling that stutters and stops every single game. I don't know if it's arrogance, but he needs to allow some fresh blood to call these plays. The only new wrinkle we saw this week was Eli under center, which equated to 3 handoffs to Jennings that did squat. Everything seems out of sync and any success requires almost perfect execution.
Mike Vaccaro: Incredible Antonio Brown first confounds Giants, then media
" Odell Beckham Jr. says he watches every move that Antonio Brown makes. That’s a good thing. The two of them play the position of wide receiver at about as high a level as the law allows. And both seem to have a hell of a good time doing it.
Brown had a little more fun Sunday, as his Steelers beat the Giants 24-14 at Heinz Field. He only had six catches (as opposed to Beckham’s 10) on seven targets (Beckham had 16) and only gained 54 yards to Beckham’s 100. Part of that was because the Giants were trying to take Brown away as much as possible."
Paul Schwartz:
"Janoris Jenkins beaten, barely, in end zone by a great grab by leaping Antonio Brown (6-54), who otherwise was held in check"
This is what happens when a fake reporter personally dislikes a player. He forces himself to write an article where he effusively praises a player on the other team for being a wonderful player, even if held to less production than the disliked player on the Giants. Pittsburgh sends out onto the field with Brown per Schwartz:
"Defense
At least this side of the ball battled. Screen passes to Le’Veon Bell (six catches for 64 yards) were troublesome, and his rugged running (29-118) was tough to deal with. Janoris Jenkins beaten, barely, in end zone by a great grab by leaping Antonio Brown (6-54), who otherwise was held in check. Ladarius Green’s production (6-110, 1 TD) more evidence that problems with tight ends continue."
Our coach sends the atrocious ELi Manning out onto the field with our leading running back, who rushes 7 times for 38 yards. That's a 5.3 ypc. Bell gets handed the ball 29 times. 29. Ends with 118 on the ground for 4.1 ypc. Just for f#)(sake lets do some math on this.... 5.3 x 29 = 153.7. He runs 7 times. Longest was 18 yards. Wasn't thrown a pass. All ELi passes to RB went to Rashad at a 3 yard average.
Eli was given 3 TE's to throw to and got 3 catches on 8 targets. The longest being 1 pass caught by Adams for 10 yards who got 3 of those targets. Their TE, with Brown being covered well got 11 targets and went 6/110 with a TD.
Does anyone else see the issue here? I mean just using the simplest breakdown, our successful RB did not get a pass thrown his way (aware that blocking may not be as good but if screen passes are the option here, how is he never on the field to catch those passes while Jennings is...if Jennings is getting 3 yards per catch) I guess Perkins can't catch though.
Wait....no he can and has and has extremely productively. Go take a look.
McAdoo needs to sit down and take a breath. He's at 8-4. But he's doing or not doing stupid things to go along with what he'e done well enough to have 8 wins. The whole game today was a shitshow and his QB can take the blame but Ben gets to use talent he has to his advantage. Eli is winning games in the end but if he makes a bad mistake the whole damn game rests on his shoulders while the coach is doing half a good job and at times a pathetic job,
The flow of the play calling develops zero rhythm, then it's panic time in the 2nd half and all OBJ which the D knows is coming. It's predictable unimaginative stale playcalling that stutters and stops every single game. I don't know if it's arrogance, but he needs to allow some fresh blood to call these plays. The only new wrinkle we saw this week was Eli under center, which equated to 3 handoffs to Jennings that did squat. Everything seems out of sync and any success requires almost perfect execution.
well thats amazing to see two posts much the same but both with different angles.
See we are already doing better than "Eli should retire"
Eli has not played well. He s skittish and inaccurate. He is not elevating his team.
The 2nd was semi difficult and one that should have been made but Shepard was about 8 yds open and Eli under threw it badly. I noticed Eli was throwing ducks the whole game on deep throws.
Difference was Ben was making his throws when he had to make them. Eli wasn't totally awful, but he was not good. If you think the Steelers steam rolled the Giants, look at what the 1st TD would have meant 7-5 game. Missing Shepard on the 2nd was also a killer.
I appreciate your opinion. I just don't see what you're seeing in a single way that is similar. In fact I've watched him win games with maybe one other guy matching his compete level and while he has an elite receiver, he has no NFL level TE, 1 reliable RB to block on blitzes, and no run game to even pretend like he's not going to drop 3-5 steps and pray. I think any Giant fan who doesn't think we'd be 4-8 instead of 8-4 is not paying attention. I wonder actually how many passes of his are drops, called back on penalties, or rushed into the ground to avoid sacks. Just look at the comparisons between his RB's and Dallas or Pitt. If we win next week it will be because of him. Promise you
He had a bad game. At the point where the QB is having a bad game, it's hard to get on the HC for the offense not performing. I think McAdoo didn't do well either yesterday, but short of running the ball a lot more, I don't know what he could have done.
I'm still not sure why we insist on the same damn personnel grouping all the time. Supposedly, because we don't have a FB - but we've been running Tye in formations that need a FB, and he's been doing a decent job. There are also FA options, even if not great - if the net result is you're going to be completely predictable, why the hell wouldn't you find a FB or at least use what you've got?
Old Dirty Beckham : 6:20 am : link : reply
Hes a qb we can with but he hasnt elevated this team in one game this year.
Elevated his team? I thik that's subjective but i think he has been at times literally the only player doing enough to win on offense. He has won games by himself. I'm not sure how else to put it but the team has won 5 games because of plays he's made in the 4th quarter.
He wasn't very good yesterday. He also threw the ball 40 times while we ran 13.
Boomer Eaison
joeinpa : 6:28 am : link : reply
Called Manning s performance pathetic. Is he only looking at the surface as well.
Eli has not played well. He s skittish and inaccurate. He is not elevating his team.
the 2 INTs were killer.
Boomer Esiason is a consistent ELi Manning bitch and it's not some random lie or made up idea. These two guys don't analyze games, they just speak to elicit response and controversy. If Boomer as an ex NFL QB watched the game and saw the QB as the reason they lost, he's lying plain and simple. What did he say about never running for tds in the redzone nor kicking fg's, nor a target to our best RB nor Victor Cruz? THis is their schtick. I assume youve listened before.
section125 : 7:11 am : link : reply
Eli either did not see Timmons or threw an awful pass - Donnell was open - that was a killer play. Of course putting Donnell into the game there was like a neon sign as to where the ball was going. The minute Aikman said he was in, I knew where it was likely to go.
The 2nd was semi difficult and one that should have been made but Shepard was about 8 yds open and Eli under threw it badly. I noticed Eli was throwing ducks the whole game on deep throws.
Difference was Ben was making his throws when he had to make them. Eli wasn't totally awful, but he was not good. If you think the Steelers steam rolled the Giants, look at what the 1st TD would have meant 7-5 game. Missing Shepard on the 2nd was also a killer.
This whole point is fine but the 2nd int was him throwing across his body to the one like a punt. We got the ball on a turnover clos eto the endoze because of that field position. The STeelers not only didn't steamroll the Giants, it took pathetic coaching to lose. The point about Ben is...i have no idea what that means. He threw a pick, and a prayer to the back of the endzone and i think the guy was out of bounds. The other TD was a wide open TE I think. The other issue was 3rd and longs....is this a new think you just saw Ben doing? They are notorious for this.
Point is you're saying the same things that are cliche and aren;t looking any further than the worst play. The interceptio he threw was awful. What about the entire 4 quarters?
He had a bad game. At the point where the QB is having a bad game, it's hard to get on the HC for the offense not performing. I think McAdoo didn't do well either yesterday, but short of running the ball a lot more, I don't know what he could have done.
I'm still not sure why we insist on the same damn personnel grouping all the time. Supposedly, because we don't have a FB - but we've been running Tye in formations that need a FB, and he's been doing a decent job. There are also FA options, even if not great - if the net result is you're going to be completely predictable, why the hell wouldn't you find a FB or at least use what you've got?
not sure if you read my second post but i mean I'm not one to say a coach did such a bad job as to cost his team so directly but he called the worst game he's had here by a lot. I wrote a bunch about it. Maybe you can explain how you just refuse to adapt to this game so ignorantly. You saw the runs right? We were lucky to get one run a game like we had a number of times in this one. The rookie is kicking their asses and he sits.
oh yeah but see I've learned by now he is just simply not good until the vote comes in and people are like
"wait...he's 5th all time in yards? All time?" Point is next week he can go out and score 4 tds and rip off 400 yards and no one would ever speak about him as they do COusins or Wentz or Prescott...do you remember Kaepernicks rookie year? He was called better than Eli by every single reporter. Let it roll off. I mean Boomer annoys me because hs envy and pathetic jealousy is sad. He sacrifices his kowledge to work with a hack and he sticks to what makes noise for ratings.
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great, but a call that was executed well enough to result in a TD without a great throw by the QB. Eli blew it.
He had a bad game. At the point where the QB is having a bad game, it's hard to get on the HC for the offense not performing. I think McAdoo didn't do well either yesterday, but short of running the ball a lot more, I don't know what he could have done.
I'm still not sure why we insist on the same damn personnel grouping all the time. Supposedly, because we don't have a FB - but we've been running Tye in formations that need a FB, and he's been doing a decent job. There are also FA options, even if not great - if the net result is you're going to be completely predictable, why the hell wouldn't you find a FB or at least use what you've got?
not sure if you read my second post but i mean I'm not one to say a coach did such a bad job as to cost his team so directly but he called the worst game he's had here by a lot. I wrote a bunch about it. Maybe you can explain how you just refuse to adapt to this game so ignorantly. You saw the runs right? We were lucky to get one run a game like we had a number of times in this one. The rookie is kicking their asses and he sits.
No, I'm not giving McAdoo a pass at all - he did not have a good game yesterday either. Just hard to know where he's at when his leader on the field is struggling that badly.
And I still think the larger issues on offense are more schematic than everyone thinks. Yes, we have a bad OL (not sure how much worse than middle of the pack they are, though). Our backs are not bad. Beckham is one of the best WRs in the game. Shepherd is a good #2. Even if Cruz isn't vintage Cruz, he's not bad.
Why is the offense worse than the sum of it's parts? Why does the NFL seem to agree we're suffering from running out of the same personnel grouping? Why is a first year HC calling his own plays and why does he have an OC that has never accomplished anything at that level, either here or on another team?
We're not helping Eli here, and it's not just talent.
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In comment 13249209 jcn56 said:
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great, but a call that was executed well enough to result in a TD without a great throw by the QB. Eli blew it.
He had a bad game. At the point where the QB is having a bad game, it's hard to get on the HC for the offense not performing. I think McAdoo didn't do well either yesterday, but short of running the ball a lot more, I don't know what he could have done.
I'm still not sure why we insist on the same damn personnel grouping all the time. Supposedly, because we don't have a FB - but we've been running Tye in formations that need a FB, and he's been doing a decent job. There are also FA options, even if not great - if the net result is you're going to be completely predictable, why the hell wouldn't you find a FB or at least use what you've got?
not sure if you read my second post but i mean I'm not one to say a coach did such a bad job as to cost his team so directly but he called the worst game he's had here by a lot. I wrote a bunch about it. Maybe you can explain how you just refuse to adapt to this game so ignorantly. You saw the runs right? We were lucky to get one run a game like we had a number of times in this one. The rookie is kicking their asses and he sits.
No, I'm not giving McAdoo a pass at all - he did not have a good game yesterday either. Just hard to know where he's at when his leader on the field is struggling that badly.
And I still think the larger issues on offense are more schematic than everyone thinks. Yes, we have a bad OL (not sure how much worse than middle of the pack they are, though). Our backs are not bad. Beckham is one of the best WRs in the game. Shepherd is a good #2. Even if Cruz isn't vintage Cruz, he's not bad.
Why is the offense worse than the sum of it's parts? Why does the NFL seem to agree we're suffering from running out of the same personnel grouping? Why is a first year HC calling his own plays and why does he have an OC that has never accomplished anything at that level, either here or on another team?
We're not helping Eli here, and it's not just talent.
no i completely agree with you. It's not just talent. We know where the weaknesses are obvious but some of the decisions on how to run the game and where we are field position wise....i mean I'm sorry but you want to go for it on 4th and 2 from their 34 fine. but 4th and 10 from the 30? punt the damn ball. Or maybe put some points on the board at 14-0 so if we score again quickly its 14-10 ? The game changes so much based on the spread of the score. it's absurd.
'
The Timmons int was a pretty damn nice play there. Agree that Donnell likely doesn't catch that ball. Why was he falling?
Did Cruz even play?...being serious.
I watched the game with a couple non-Giants fans and they felt like Eli's offensive line was garbage, he had no time on many plays, but when he did have time a lot of those plays he acted like he didn't and seemed to "hear footsteps" and Beckham is TO part II, an immensely talented head case diva WR. You live with him because he's that good, but you have some hard decisions with him come contract time.
Just relaying their thoughts.
As far as Eli goes, I write all the time that he's the best QB most of us are likely to ever see in a Giants uniform. Sadly, I also often write that many of the Giants fans probably don't deserve Eli. Maybe those fans would rather we have Ryan Fitzpatrick or Kaep or that fucking tomato can making millions in Houston? I'll guarantee one thing, I bet Eli wishes he played for a coach like Belichick who knows how to run multiple personnel packages which are tailored to the strength of the players he has. The problems the offense are many, but mostly coaching.
Today, Eli is being asked to get rid of the ball quickly because the line is unable to hold blocks...and basically throwing to 1 WR and and a rookie slot receiver.
Huge difference.
You give Eli another target, and better protection you'll see better results.
Having said that, he's got 22 TDs and 12 INTs three quarters thru the season.
Today, Eli is being asked to get rid of the ball quickly because the line is unable to hold blocks...and basically throwing to 1 WR and and a rookie slot receiver.
Huge difference.
You give Eli another target, and better protection you'll see better results.
Having said that, he's got 22 TDs and 12 INTs three quarters thru the season.
That about sums it up.
Ryan throws a pick 6 and a pick-2 to lose the game
It happens to every QB, so get off your soap boxes.
There was literally ZERO chance of it being completed. The safety was right there.
Been his buddy then this is a
Statement about eli or coaching
Been his buddy then this is a
Statement about eli or coaching
I'd say it's more of an indication of his frustration, perhaps lack of self awareness, that he can't get separation anymore.
Even then success is likely to elude him. His day is over.
Ryan throws a pick 6 and a pick-2 to lose the game
It happens to every QB, so get off your soap boxes.
Yep....it's not Madden, there's going to be adversity, and you have to bounce back.
As far as Eli goes, I write all the time that he's the best QB most of us are likely to ever see in a Giants uniform. Sadly, I also often write that many of the Giants fans probably don't deserve Eli. Maybe those fans would rather we have Ryan Fitzpatrick or Kaep or that fucking tomato can making millions in Houston? I'll guarantee one thing, I bet Eli wishes he played for a coach like Belichick who knows how to run multiple personnel packages which are tailored to the strength of the players he has. The problems the offense are many, but mostly coaching.
Maybe you didn't read my post properly. but whatever, everyone is salty after a loss. I don't care enough to argue with anyone.
But I look at Manning's physical makeup and talent and I see hardly a difference between 2011 and now. The difference is what's going on around him.
I've always said you need to put talent around Eli to thrive, he's not going to make something out of crap.
This team needs a few more parts and they can really be a contending type football team.
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great, but a call that was executed well enough to result in a TD without a great throw by the QB. Eli blew it.
He had a bad game. At the point where the QB is having a bad game, it's hard to get on the HC for the offense not performing. I think McAdoo didn't do well either yesterday, but short of running the ball a lot more, I don't know what he could have done.
I'm still not sure why we insist on the same damn personnel grouping all the time. Supposedly, because we don't have a FB - but we've been running Tye in formations that need a FB, and he's been doing a decent job. There are also FA options, even if not great - if the net result is you're going to be completely predictable, why the hell wouldn't you find a FB or at least use what you've got?
not sure if you read my second post but I mean I'm not one to say a coach did such a bad job as to cost his team so directly but he called the worst game he's had here by a lot. I wrote a bunch about it. Maybe you can explain how you just refuse to adapt to this game so ignorantly. You saw the runs right? We were lucky to get one run a game like we had a number of times in this one. The rookie is kicking their asses and he sits.
He's been calling shitty games, for the most part, all year. We are 8-4 despite the play calling not because of it. It is startling when you have to pick out drives not complete games as being called well on Offense. IE: the opening drive against Philly is an example of innovative play calling, but then we get a two score lead and it goes back to coaching scared.
I keep going back to the comparison to last season. We had less talent and yet much more production than we do this season when we have more talent. When this year started we questioned if the D would be good not the O because everyone assumed we would take last seasons top 10 Offense and be one of the best in the NFL due to the fact we upgraded it with the additions of Cruz and Sheperd, as well as Flowers having more time under his belt. Well, that assumption is completely wrong because we rank 26th in the NFL on Offense.
How do you go from 8th in the NFL to 26th in one year AFTER you add more talent?
They use him as a field general, analyzing and selecting plays. More and more, it isn't working. the cerebral part of the game was always his forte, but now he's over analyzing, acting skittish, and blowing plays. Not always, but often enough to have an offense that doesn't work far too often. Maybe it's time to start just calling a play, getting to the line and execute it, instead of everyone getting to the line and having Eli select his play, then directing people where to go. Allow Eli the option to audible if he sees a Defense that will kill a play, but otherwise, get to the line and execute a play that the playcalling coach has selected. How often have we seen a WR and Eli not being on the same page? often. Maybe eliminate the complication of Eli, and or the WR, overthinking things, and just go with a play (huddle talk: we're running play 134). Everyone on offense knows what they're supposed to do.
At a very minimum, knock off the 'lets shout stuff for 10 seconds at the line of scrimmage so that the D has time to get ready'
A new coach, who, let's face it, was chosen in large part because he's a yes man, is going to give a borderline HOF QB a lot of freedom.
time to pull the reins on that.
A new coach, who, let's face it, was chosen in large part because he's a yes man, is going to give a borderline HOF QB a lot of freedom.
time to pull the reins on that.
This is also why their no-huddle is not a hurry up. It is designed to force the D to line-up right away without changing personnel and then allow Eli to read the S and LBs to put them in a good situation. They've had plenty of success with this both in Eli changing a pass to a run, vice versa, or simply changing to another play of the same variety. Does it always work? No. But, I'll tell you what, based on McAdoo's gameplans and playcalling this season I think I'd rather take my chances with Eli running things than McAdoo.
A new coach, who, let's face it, was chosen in large part because he's a yes man, is going to give a borderline HOF QB a lot of freedom.
time to pull the reins on that.
But "leeway" has to be understood that he can change the call to a run or a hot pass w/ some variables in the formation and blocking scheme. You still have the play call set out there which dictates the few audibles allowed from the original call. It is not like he has a bunch to choose from. But even then, we are rarely seeing the defense caught off guard. We a running a very stale unimaginative Offense that for the most part when it does become successful it is more due to the talents of the players instead of the play design helping them to succeed
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it's well known that Eli has always had a lot of leeway in selecting plays. I won't go so far as to say he calls the games, but to a certain extent, he does.
A new coach, who, let's face it, was chosen in large part because he's a yes man, is going to give a borderline HOF QB a lot of freedom.
time to pull the reins on that.
That's not how it works. McAdoo is calling the plays. Off of the play called, Eli has 2 to 3 plays he can audible to. It's not like they get to the line and Eli can whatever he wants. He is reading the D and adjusting as needed. He has been masterful at this for years. It is a strength of his and the team's. He is perhaps the smartest QB in the league with his brother retired.
This is also why their no-huddle is not a hurry up. It is designed to force the D to line-up right away without changing personnel and then allow Eli to read the S and LBs to put them in a good situation. They've had plenty of success with this both in Eli changing a pass to a run, vice versa, or simply changing to another play of the same variety. Does it always work? No. But, I'll tell you what, based on McAdoo's gameplans and playcalling this season I think I'd rather take my chances with Eli running things than McAdoo.
Exactly, the biggest audible Eli does is blocking scheme calls. It's not like where he can go from a called slant to a screen pass, the most he can do is go to a hot route if a receiver is singled up or a run play out of a called slant pass
This isn't a riddle. This isn't hard to explain. Eli knows he doesn't have time to throw and he is feeling the pressure sometimes even if it isn't there because he has a 2 second clock in his head before he knows he has to get rid of the ball. Last year I thought McAdoo did a great job with the three step and fire passing attack to make up for the horrible line. This year, those passes aren't working as well. They will not get better until next year IF they fix the line.
But their pass blocking was pretty good. Big difference.
This isn't a riddle. This isn't hard to explain. Eli knows he doesn't have time to throw and he is feeling the pressure sometimes even if it isn't there because he has a 2 second clock in his head before he knows he has to get rid of the ball. Last year I thought McAdoo did a great job with the three step and fire passing attack to make up for the horrible line. This year, those passes aren't working as well. They will not get better until next year IF they fix the line.
That is a crap excuse also indicates you don't watch much of the NFL. The difference is those QBs are able to move their feet and don't look like they are stuck in mud doing it. Brady at his advance age can run circles around Eli. The Pats OL stinks but nice try with the deflections.
The need to constantly reaffirm Eli as a quarterback is weird, and seems like some sort of odd defense mechanism against an inferiority complex related to him.
Eli has played about 200 games here. We all know what he is and isn't.
The need to constantly reaffirm Eli as a quarterback is weird, and seems like some sort of odd defense mechanism against an inferiority complex related to him.
Eli has played about 200 games here. We all know what he is and isn't.
It's the weekly analysis about whether he still has it or not that is tiresome..
The need to constantly reaffirm Eli as a quarterback is weird, and seems like some sort of odd defense mechanism against an inferiority complex related to him.
Eli has played about 200 games here. We all know what he is and isn't.
Not everyone knows Eli's limitations, there are a few posters that have several Eli blowup dolls riding in their car for the commute to and from work and they are not only there to take advantage of the HOV lanes, if you know what I mean.
In my view Eli has never been much more than average as a pure thrower on the pro level. Like most guys not named Favre or Rodgers (though his best days may also be behind him), the quality of Eli's throws depends heavily on the quality of his mechanics...and his mechanics can be spotty. If I wanted to teach my son the proper way to throw a ball I wouldn't show him Eli; I'd show him Aikman or Moon...those guys were human JUGS machines.
But Eli can let his mechanics slip, especially when he feels pressure. This isn't new; it's been consistent his whole career. If the play isn't happening on schedule, the feet get bad and he doesn't have the arm talent to overcome that. This is why I didn't understand why we didn't focus on the offensive line in the offseason: the negative impact on him (and thus our best weapon Beckham) was going to be very direct.
I think McAdoo and Eli have done an excellent job working around that by focusing on quick passes and staying out of negative plays. Recall what Troy Aikman said during the broadcast: the Giants may have given up few sacks over the course of the season, but that has a lot more to do with Eli (and by extension McAdoo) than it does the offensive line.
I don't think there's cause for alarm here. 8-4 is pretty good and the playoffs are within reach. I do get frustrated that we came out of this offseason with the same poor offensive line. How that wasn't priority #1 with our cap space is beyond me.
"He tried to fortify the OL with FAs. He either was unable to quickly pull the trigger on some OL while putting together his D, or some FAs simply did not want to come here, or many were simply damaged goods.."
Mitchell Schwartz was gone I believe the day after FA started and Osemele was also gone very quickly..They may have really been gone the 3 days prior to the FA start date when teams were able to get parameters in place for a deal ..
We HAD TO fix the D to the extent we did or, like last year, it wouldn't have mattered what the OL and O did..So, WHO was available in FA that wasn't long in the tooth or physically damaged? Perhaps they could have inquired about Joe Thomas or pulled the trigger on a trade. We don't know whether or not JR tried or that Cleveland wasn't asking for a king's ransom..
The defense has been unquestionably improved, but this approach left our two best players high and dry.
While the defense is better it's not the '15 Broncos. It's not going to carry us anywhere.
It's a question of philosophy. I'd rather have one side of the ball be great and the other one average or even a little worse than average, as opposed to having both sides be OK.
Some investments in the offense (LaDarius Green is a guy I wanted) would have made an enormous difference. I expect we'll see those investments this offseason, but if we stand pat on defense that side will erode and we'll face a similar situation (though reversed) next year.
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Only disagreement here is that addressing the defense was rightfully priority #1.
The defense has been unquestionably improved, but this approach left our two best players high and dry.
While the defense is better it's not the '15 Broncos. It's not going to carry us anywhere.
It's a question of philosophy. I'd rather have one side of the ball be great and the other one average or even a little worse than average, as opposed to having both sides be OK.
Some investments in the offense (LaDarius Green is a guy I wanted) would have made an enormous difference. I expect we'll see those investments this offseason, but if we stand pat on defense that side will erode and we'll face a similar situation (though reversed) next year.
Our posts crossed
"He tried to fortify the OL with FAs. He either was unable to quickly pull the trigger on some OL while putting together his D, or some FAs simply did not want to come here, or many were simply damaged goods.."
Mitchell Schwartz was gone I believe the day after FA started and Osemele was also gone very quickly..They may have really been gone the 3 days prior to the FA start date when teams were able to get parameters in place for a deal ..
We HAD TO fix the D to the extent we did or, like last year, it wouldn't have mattered what the OL and O did..So, WHO was available in FA that wasn't long in the tooth or physically damaged? Perhaps they could have inquired about Joe Thomas or pulled the trigger on a trade. We don't know whether or not JR tried or that Cleveland wasn't asking for a king's ransom..
I've said multiple times that I would have gone after both Osemele (look how he has impacted Oakland...he's been an All-Pro) and Schwartz 1A and 1B. We had the money to do it. Oakland actually signed both Osemele and Bruce Irvin to play DE.
Look we've been over this ground before and every time I say it I get destroyed here. I just brought it up to illustrate the blind spot we had this offseason related to Eli, his mechanics, etc.
The Giants are not going to win the Super Bowl this season.
So maybe you go Oline first, or 1 of Harrison/Vernon/Jenkins, or Tight End. Watching these Tight Ends is painful. Watching the run D last season was painful. Watching the run attack this year is painful.
But whichever order your rebuild is, the north star (even if one doesn't consciously admit it) is a 2017/2018 run as Eli's swan song.
The Giants really needed the Ereck Flowers pick to pan out. Not doing so has noticeably & significantly set them back (esp coupled with the Richberg regression). It's a real problem and has me far less optimistic about the last few years of Eli. Imagine if just that 1 player were great. Hello running game next to Pugh, hello play action, hello long balls to Beckham, etc.
That said, 8-4 is nice and a playoff spot still looks likely within the pedestrian NFC, even if it is 1 & done.
We're not getting 5 years out of Eli, one or two more max.
We bought a defense and shown very little improvement outside of the hired guns. What hell are the coaches doing?