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Eli's First Int: Could we telepgraph anymore?

Now Mike in MD : 12/5/2016 10:16 am
Donnell hasn't played in 4 weeks. He gets in and we split him out. Did anyone not know that the ball was going to Donnell? Maybe that contributed to the INT or maybe not, but I can't help but think Timmons wasn't shading over to Donnell's side on that play. I'm not a big critic of the playcalling, but that one I found baffling.
The irony to criticizing the playcalling here  
jcn56 : 12/5/2016 10:17 am : link
is that a good throw would have resulted in a TD. Eli just missed him.
I'm not sure if Eli  
Now Mike in MD : 12/5/2016 10:19 am : link
even saw Timmons. It was a tight window though.
If the ball..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 12/5/2016 10:20 am : link
is thrown slightly higher, it is an easy TD.

How is that reflective of a poor playcall?
Whats baffling to me  
Keith : 12/5/2016 10:22 am : link
is your criticism. Do you realize that he was open by a lot. Eli either made a bad throw or didn't see the defensive player drop back. It was an easy TD opportunity if it's a good throw(I didn't say an easy TD because Donnell probably drops it after he gets hit).
RE: I'm not sure if Eli  
jcn56 : 12/5/2016 10:22 am : link
In comment 13249599 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
even saw Timmons. It was a tight window though.


I think he did - but just didn't get enough under the ball. Timmons did have to go up and get it, another couple of inches and it'd be out of reach.
Replay shows...  
x meadowlander : 12/5/2016 10:29 am : link
...Donnell wasn't Eli's first look - he was looking left, came back to Donnell, somehow failed to notice the gigantic linebacker drifting straight into the zone.

...sigh...

I miss Eli Manning.
Obviously Monday morning QBing  
Now Mike in MD : 12/5/2016 10:33 am : link
in addition to creating a tight window for the throw, with Donnell not having even played in weeks, what's the assurance he's going to even convert? The game is on the line, why not design a play that puts the ball in the hands of your best playmakers. Use the route to Donnell to create a space in the middle of the field. Timmons is going to shade, that opens up the middle of the middle for something over the middle to OBJ or SS. Aren't these the guys you want with the ball in their hands and not a TE who was benched weeks ago for poor play on a route that everyone in the house knows is going to him?
To be brutally honest endzone interceptions  
Mason : 12/5/2016 10:34 am : link
are kinda of Eli Manning specialty.

He currently has the record for the most end zone interceptions the last 10 years.

He is 5 interceptions away from tying Drew Brees on career interceptions. Ironically enough he passed Terry Bradshaw yesterday.
do we really need  
gmenatlarge : 12/5/2016 10:37 am : link
to run a play to that POS donnell???? Really????
Agree with Fatman  
Vin R : 12/5/2016 10:44 am : link
If that ball is thrown a tad higher it's a TD
Fire McAdoo  
ryanmkeane : 12/5/2016 10:47 am : link
...
Defensive back made a great play  
BigBlue in Keys : 12/5/2016 10:50 am : link
Jumped and caught it over his head. Yes Eli needed a few extra inches but I didn't think it was a poor decision or that he didn't see him.
it was a fantastic play by Timmons  
UConn4523 : 12/5/2016 10:51 am : link
these guys aren't robots either, Eli didn't see him and didn't throw it high enough as a result. But that play starts and ends with Timmons who wasn't in the picture when the ball was released.

Sometimes you have to tip your cap.
bad throw  
dep026 : 12/5/2016 10:53 am : link
great play.

Much like Eli Apple's INT. Ben had a bad throw and Apple made a great play on the ball.
RE: The irony to criticizing the playcalling here  
Matt M. : 12/5/2016 11:00 am : link
In comment 13249592 jcn56 said:
Quote:
is that a good throw would have resulted in a TD. Eli just missed him.
I don't agree. A better throw needed a little more height and touch. Before Timmons touched the ball, Donnell was already off balance, falling backwards, with the S right behind him. do you honestly think a higher arced pass would have been completed? At best, it likely goes incomplete. St worst, the S intercepts it in the space vacated by a falling Donnell.
He wasn't open by a lot. that's is what is being missed by you guys.  
Matt M. : 12/5/2016 11:02 am : link
Why do you think Timmons was in front of the play? They knew where it was going and had a player in front and behind in the zone. The S was right behind Donnell. A higher arced ball gives him more time to completely close the gap to Donnell...that's if Donnell was in position to catch it cleanly, which he wasn't because he was falling backward on one leg.
I'm not guaranteeing a TD there - and Donnell was off balance  
jcn56 : 12/5/2016 11:04 am : link
but still in position to make the play. He was open, by NFL standards though - it's a red zone play, you're not going to get wide open in most cases (save for a broken coverage, there just isn't enough room to do it at that point).

Had Eli made a better throw, he hits Donnell on the hands, and at that point it's either a TD or INC.
RE: Replay shows...  
Matt M. : 12/5/2016 11:04 am : link
In comment 13249636 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...Donnell wasn't Eli's first look - he was looking left, came back to Donnell, somehow failed to notice the gigantic linebacker drifting straight into the zone.

...sigh...

I miss Eli Manning.
On that play Aikman wasn't sure if he was looking to another target left, or simply trying to look off the defenders in the middle before throwing to Donnell. He thought the latter. In contrast, on the 4th down to Tye in the end zone, Eli was looking to ODJ on the left, who was covered. He had to come back to Tye in the middle while avoiding the rush up the middle.
RE: I'm not guaranteeing a TD there - and Donnell was off balance  
Matt M. : 12/5/2016 11:05 am : link
In comment 13249763 jcn56 said:
Quote:
but still in position to make the play. He was open, by NFL standards though - it's a red zone play, you're not going to get wide open in most cases (save for a broken coverage, there just isn't enough room to do it at that point).

Had Eli made a better throw, he hits Donnell on the hands, and at that point it's either a TD or INC.
I don't expect wide open either. But, how is he hitting Donnell in the hands if Donnell is falling backward? People are talking as if he was wide open with nobody near him. That wasn't the case. Timmons dropped into his zone right in front of the play. I'd say his drop was excellent because it made it very difficult to get the ball both over his head and into Donnell.
RE: bad throw  
Matt M. : 12/5/2016 11:08 am : link
In comment 13249730 dep026 said:
Quote:
great play.

Much like Eli Apple's INT. Ben had a bad throw and Apple made a great play on the ball.
How is it a great play? The defense knew it was coming. Why do you think Timmons was where he was? Donnell wasn't even active for a couple of weeks. The first action he sees is in the red zone, where he was a primary target of Eli's for 2 years. Pitt seemed to know where the ball was going. How is that a great play/call?

For a couple of weeks, our offense seemed to have more purpose and flow, with a lot less being telegraphed. Yesterday, it seemed to regress back to telegraphing plays and Eli only looking to one target, usually OBJ. That is not a recipe for success.
Bad throw  
JonC : 12/5/2016 11:11 am : link
Eli had a few yesterday.
RE: RE: I'm not guaranteeing a TD there - and Donnell was off balance  
jcn56 : 12/5/2016 11:13 am : link
In comment 13249771 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 13249763 jcn56 said:


Quote:


but still in position to make the play. He was open, by NFL standards though - it's a red zone play, you're not going to get wide open in most cases (save for a broken coverage, there just isn't enough room to do it at that point).

Had Eli made a better throw, he hits Donnell on the hands, and at that point it's either a TD or INC.

I don't expect wide open either. But, how is he hitting Donnell in the hands if Donnell is falling backward? People are talking as if he was wide open with nobody near him. That wasn't the case. Timmons dropped into his zone right in front of the play. I'd say his drop was excellent because it made it very difficult to get the ball both over his head and into Donnell.


I think you need to watch that one again, Matt. A good throw (and not a particularly difficult one) would have put the ball where only Donnell could get to it. For a RZ play, that's all you can ask - get a receiver some room towards a corner of the end zone and put it where only he can get to it.

Not sure if it was bad mechanics, or Eli thought he had more room, but he just didn't throw it well and the net result was an INT. You could tell from Eli's face afterward that he wanted that one back, he blew it.
That's all Donnell does  
RetroJint : 12/5/2016 11:17 am : link
He finds the seam. It was a play telegraphed by personnel. And the play was designed to go to Donnell. The look left was to influence Mitchell away from Donnell. Timmons suckered Eli. A higher throw would have resulted in an incomplete pass but Manning never saw Timmons. Ergo, height of pass is meaningless.

Eli has a +3 stamped on his forehead , there. First Down. No pass rush. 2 more plays. Run it in maybe. They actually run blocked very well. They just didn't stay with it. The Giants are not a physical offense. They didn't stay with it. They are a finesse offense. +3 was pissed away to -7. Game changer. Back breaking. There are simply terrible plays that you never recover from. Pitts , healthy and desperate, with what I'll say was an agreeable officiating crew, was going to be tough to beat, anyway. But that play blew. And the thing is it's happened way too much over the years with Eli.
The defender made a good play, shit happens.  
SHO'NUFF : 12/5/2016 11:19 am : link
But I know what the OP meant.
RE: If the ball..  
JohnVB : 12/5/2016 11:21 am : link
In comment 13249603 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is thrown slightly higher, it is an easy TD.

How is that reflective of a poor playcall?


This. People make it seem like Eli hit Timmons in the chest with a pass. The guy made a good play. A foot higher and it's a TD.
RE: RE: If the ball..  
BillKo : 12/5/2016 11:23 am : link
In comment 13249837 JohnVB said:
Quote:
In comment 13249603 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


is thrown slightly higher, it is an easy TD.

How is that reflective of a poor playcall?



This. People make it seem like Eli hit Timmons in the chest with a pass. The guy made a good play. A foot higher and it's a TD.


Actually a real nice play, arms extended. Not an easy play for a linebacker.....
RE: Replay shows...  
BillKo : 12/5/2016 11:24 am : link
In comment 13249636 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...Donnell wasn't Eli's first look - he was looking left, came back to Donnell, somehow failed to notice the gigantic linebacker drifting straight into the zone.

...sigh...

I miss Eli Manning.


C'mon now, that's Eli looking off the safety......football 101.

Look left, then throw right. QBs practice this in pregame.
I knew the ball was going to Donnell as soon as he came in  
gtt350 : 12/5/2016 11:26 am : link
If I'm on defense i'm jumping that route. Tyrone Wheatley flashback anyone. sweep
RE: RE: bad throw  
Sonic Youth : 12/5/2016 11:29 am : link
In comment 13249779 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 13249730 dep026 said:


Quote:


great play.

Much like Eli Apple's INT. Ben had a bad throw and Apple made a great play on the ball.

How is it a great play? The defense knew it was coming. Why do you think Timmons was where he was? Donnell wasn't even active for a couple of weeks. The first action he sees is in the red zone, where he was a primary target of Eli's for 2 years. Pitt seemed to know where the ball was going. How is that a great play/call?

For a couple of weeks, our offense seemed to have more purpose and flow, with a lot less being telegraphed. Yesterday, it seemed to regress back to telegraphing plays and Eli only looking to one target, usually OBJ. That is not a recipe for success.
He meant great play on Timmons part
RE: it was a fantastic play by Timmons  
Tuckrule : 12/5/2016 11:35 am : link
In comment 13249725 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
these guys aren't robots either, Eli didn't see him and didn't throw it high enough as a result. But that play starts and ends with Timmons who wasn't in the picture when the ball was released.

Sometimes you have to tip your cap.


I'm amazed how few bbiers share this view. As soon as thevlkay happened I said that's a hell of a play by Timmons. Eli read the defense rift made the correct read and throw just a great play by Timmons. Caught that ball on his fingertips.
As always it's a combo of all of these, not just 1 thing  
ChaChing : 12/5/2016 11:36 am : link
The personnel usage certainly made it a questionably predictably call

Had the ball gotten through, it seemed LD was being LD and was off balance vs keeping his feet and using his arms & length. Could have been anything from a TD to a LD-tip-INT

Timmons made a great play even if he saw it coming esp for a LB. Eli may have simply tried to be the gunslinger he is at times for better, but this time for worse

Eli made a bad throw if not a bad read. Poor OL or not, he's made too many bad throws esp of late. Still weak in short-mid area accuracy. Had several balls go closer to DBs (almost picks or not). All that said, Eli is Eli and could get scorching hot starting next Sun...for no real reason except he's Eli

Lots of things NYG must improve on, and Eli isn't the worst issue. But his improving a bit is a must for this season to be any kind of success. Whether he just plays better, or we get better OL play / run game, or better production from TE...doesn't really matter how
He averages  
Doomster : 12/5/2016 11:42 am : link
one int per season.....Eli gave him his average....
that particular throw and pick  
mdc1 : 12/5/2016 11:43 am : link
is pretty common with Eli. targeting, secondary defender route jumping on an underthrown ball. Surprising with Donnell size that he did not put a bit of elevation on it.
The amazing thing about that play is  
PSIMMS 22-25-268 : 12/5/2016 12:42 pm : link
Donnell had already turned his back to the defense, jumped in the air and was falling backwards. Would it have surprised anyone on this board if, assuming Timmons did not make the play, he caught the ball in his hands, got his legs cut by the safety and then fell on his head and dropped the ball? His lack of balance is just astounding, even on plays where he isn't even contacted by anyone else.
RE: The amazing thing about that play is  
Eman11 : 12/5/2016 1:06 pm : link
In comment 13250092 PSIMMS 22-25-268 said:
Quote:
Donnell had already turned his back to the defense, jumped in the air and was falling backwards. Would it have surprised anyone on this board if, assuming Timmons did not make the play, he caught the ball in his hands, got his legs cut by the safety and then fell on his head and dropped the ball? His lack of balance is just astounding, even on plays where he isn't even contacted by anyone else.



I was thinking more like he tips the ball into the air while falling and right to the safety who's coming up and returns it 100+ yds for a TD but your prediction is just as likely.
Disgraceful play.  
Dave in Hoboken : 12/5/2016 1:10 pm : link
.
Worst play call  
KerrysFlask : 12/5/2016 3:47 pm : link
and execution since the corner fade to Bobby Rainey.
RE: that particular throw and pick  
Blue21 : 12/5/2016 4:10 pm : link
In comment 13249919 mdc1 said:
Quote:
is pretty common with Eli. targeting, secondary defender route jumping on an underthrown ball. Surprising with Donnell size that he did not put a bit of elevation on it.


any elevation it's 6pts despite everyone in the stadium figured Donnell was the target
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