What to do with Ereck Flowers...

the bench.

Not writing him a pass for his performance the past few weeks, but he went from mediocre to bad in short course, and that coincided with the injuries.

What does Pugh have to do with his pass blocking efforts?
If anything Pugh will help our center

But continue to pencil him in as their left tackle until his contract is up, improvement or no improvement.

In comment 13249684 NJLCO said:

Quote:

What does Pugh have to do with his pass blocking efforts? If anything Pugh will help our center

Trust. Pugh is the better player and that allows both Flowers and Richburg to be better players for many different reasons but one is definitely trust.

But yeah I think we should sit Flowers, he will definitely learn there...

I would move Pugh to LT, try Flowers at RG, Newhouse at LG and the Richberg and Hart at C and RT.

No offense, jcn, but I really never understood the BBI logic in players being better somehow based on the other players next to them. Yes it is a team sport and a better player makes the team better, but nobody ever graded out better based on who else was on the field. Worse, maybe if they are trying to cover for someone one unexperienced and overcompensate to where they miss their own assignment. But not better. Flowers in on an island most of the time. It's not like the other LGs besides Pugh all missed their assignment to give Flowers help and he only gets it from Pugh. Makes no sense to me. Pugh is hurt again and Beatty needs to play LT with Newhouse at RG.

but can Flowers be a RG? He is athletic, strong as a mule. Seems like what we need at RG. And dont tell me he was drafted 9 to be an OT. Schreff was drafted 5th and he is excelling at RG.

.

In comment 13249724 GeorgeAdams33 said:

Quote:

No offense, jcn, but I really never understood the BBI logic in players being better somehow based on the other players next to them. Yes it is a team sport and a better player makes the team better, but nobody ever graded out better based on who else was on the field. Worse, maybe if they are trying to cover for someone one unexperienced and overcompensate to where they miss their own assignment. But not better. Flowers in on an island most of the time. It's not like the other LGs besides Pugh all missed their assignment to give Flowers help and he only gets it from Pugh. Makes no sense to me. Pugh is hurt again and Beatty needs to play LT with Newhouse at RG.

An offensive line is not like other parts of the team - it works in unison. Chemistry is much more important here, as is the impact of one player not being able to carry out his assignment on another.

Flowers has had a revolving door next to him, while trying to pull together through a tough stretch as a second year LT. That's not an easy sell for anyone.

That doesn't excuse his performance - I'm just saying I want to see if it improves at all once he's got the starting LG back next to him.

But let's stop fooling ourselves. He's not a LT. Ain't got the feet for it. The experiment is over. He's gotta go to RT next season.

Is clearly a guard. He has had the same issues over his last 3 years... (2 in the pros) his "technique" is horrible and he can't be trusted in space. so put him in a phone booth and let him maul people all day.

They will likely move him somewhere else on the line. He's still on his rookie contract, so he's not being paid like an OLT yet.

In comment 13249724 GeorgeAdams33 said:

Quote:

No offense, jcn, but I really never understood the BBI logic in players being better somehow based on the other players next to them. Yes it is a team sport and a better player makes the team better, but nobody ever graded out better based on who else was on the field. Worse, maybe if they are trying to cover for someone one unexperienced and overcompensate to where they miss their own assignment. But not better. Flowers in on an island most of the time. It's not like the other LGs besides Pugh all missed their assignment to give Flowers help and he only gets it from Pugh. Makes no sense to me. Pugh is hurt again and Beatty needs to play LT with Newhouse at RG.

The differen OLinemen absolutely can make the players on each side of them better, what sport are you watching? And yes, lets pencil in Beatty when we have no idea if he can even handle a full game, let alone at LT.

This notion that Reese and/or BM are only playing Flowers at LT because they won't want to be wrong is ridiculous. Maybe, just maybe, he's the best LT we have?

In comment 13249742 jeff57 said:

Quote:

.

Jeff curious as to why you think he should be a Right Tackle when he has never played there?

As for those saying he is a guard...he cannot pull or trap well.

this has been discussed I'm sure, but is Will Beatty still an healthy option on this team? If he is, then he really must be bad.

he's a waist bender, why you constantly see him leading with his head and needing to hold. Doesn't bend at the knees like you need a LT to be able to. On top of average foot quickness, poor hand placement, it's a recipe for disaster, as we've seen

This season, there's nothing that can be done. Just need to ride it out and hope for moderate improvements. But I really hope we explore a move in the offseason. Dude is strong as hell and we've seen him be effective as a run blocker. I do think he can make the move inside. But he is not an NFL caliber LT

So I would give him help more. Another lineman like Beatty at TE isn't too crazy IMO.

Come next year, I have no idea where to find a new LT but I would put Flowers anywhere else besides center. The guy is a monster talent for either RT or Guard IMO. LT without help is a problem right now.

I want to see what he does with Pugh back in there
jcn56 : 10:36 am : link : reply
Not writing him a pass for his performance the past few weeks, but he went from mediocre to bad in short course, and that coincided with the injuries.

When Pugh comes back, Flowers will rise to at least the mediocre level of play? Great....can hardly wait....

I don't think he would do much better on the right side, as he will still face the same issues with getting beat on the edge.

With that said, I think he can be a dominant OG at either spot, and with a struggling run game I don't see why they haven't experimented with it. Pugh is a more capable LT than Flowers unfortunately.

I'd try swapping Pugh and Flowers, but next season

They are not gonna change him here at the end of the season, but we definitely have to go into the offseason having him prep for one of those positions. We then need to draft/sign/trade for a LT/RG

He has perfect size and the right attitude.

In comment 13249666 jcn56 said:

Quote:

Not writing him a pass for his performance the past few weeks, but he went from mediocre to bad in short course, and that coincided with the injuries.

Him being bad has more to do with miserable hand placement and lazy feet imo. He drops his hands on just about every snap and lets them get outside. He's a hold waiting to happen every play.

give me little hope he can play this position. He looks like a G. Looks like a bad draft pick at this point.

and he did play some RT in college, Miami rotated their T's pretty heavily when he got there because they had Seantrel Henderson and another guy who was pretty good named Malcolm Bunche who is on the Eagles.

He is a tough, strong, freak athlete with a ton of raw power but he has never been that great technically and never been the smoothest guy. He is kind of the opposite of Joe Thomas in terms of style, but he is a good player with pro bowl potential. Just a better fit to reach that potential as a pro bowl RT. He can play LT in the sense that David Diehl was a good LT, but exceptional LT's in the NFL require a skill set he's never shown. I'd prefer to see him be a better version of Kareem McKenzie and dominate the right side, though if Hart has that spot locked down now he may be a LT for the long haul. Biggest thing that would improve protection is having a TE with some size.

Before he was figuratively costing them points. Now, he's literally costing them points. He gets a holding penalty EVERY week. It's ridiculous and his playing time needs to be curtailed until he corrects it.

.

Have a o-line expert analyse his film and work him out.

Step 2
Determine whether he has the foot quickness to ever be an adequate pass blocker at LT.

Step 3
Depends on step 2. If still LT prospect, off-season total immersion in proper technique with emphasis on improving quickness in set-up, punch, and hand placement.

If no longer LT prospect, determine whether he has the foot quickness to ever be an adequate pass blocker at RT. Repeat LT steps.

Move to RG and be prepared to not exercise 5th year option if not a OT.

In comment 13249983 KWALL2 said:

Quote:

give me little hope he can play this position. He looks like a G. Looks like a bad draft pick at this point.

I'm not sure he feet are the issue. He get doesn't punch/attack...He seems to catch the defender.

are not athletic traits. Those are things that should be able to be coached if the player is coachable.

but its obvious on pass plays he doesn't get up out of stance quick enough to get his feet to move in a controlled manner to keep DE at bay, and even in a bent standing position he still has little control over his foot work. I've said it before, I love the guy and actually think he looked better in pass blocking technique in his college highlights than he does as a pro.
Unless they solve technique soon, or offseason, he needs to be moved to a position catering to his strength, which seems to be his strength. I've called for a move , like others, to RT or even G.
Unfortunately, FWIW, WALTER FB thinks the only rd1 true LT is McGlinchey, and he will not make it to us(again, its only WALTER projecting, but scouts will see others that could Day 1 I'm sure).

or he may be a better LT sooner than later. Giants usually make the right call with young players over time. If they trust the kid he will get another year out there and probably earn his stripes. If they want to move him, they will move him to RT or guard.

Giants are stubborn but not that stubborn.

with his right hand on Harrisons? shoulder, was that really a hold or just an interpretation by ref that since Harrison? was bent low it had to be EF holding him down(though thats how Harrison? attacks anyway)?

thought so.

And Harrison had 2 hands full of Flowers shirt. The hold should have been on him

would bench him and play Beatty, but that won't happen, and I wouldn't blame the Giants for not doing so. I would not put Pugh at LT, even if he can play this weekend.

But absent a radical improvement, Flowers's days as a LT are over. His technique and feet are bad. I might try him at RT if Hart doesn't progress, but Hart seems to be doing OK. That would leave guard, which may be his best position anyway.

Yeah, keep him where he is, though. That's worked.

I would switch Flowers and Pugh, let Pugh be the left tackle and flowers be the left guard. In my opinion it would be worth a try, and despite what others have said, I would do it as soon as possible, this bullshit has got to end and end now. I don't give a fuck what the GM says or thinks. If that worked out well it would be good for everyone anyway.

but a lot of the reshuffling suggestions are really not well thought out.

but doing something now smells like desperation.

McAdoo is not the kind of guy who will make a bold move although we all know that plenty of bold moves could be made right now. Giants need 2 of 4 in December.

So here goes.

Pugh to LT where at least he did not look bad filling in last year and has a good chance to improve over the last 4 games, and either Jones or Newhouse at LG. Apparently Beatty is not even potentially a LT this year since he did not get a look anywhere along the line this year.

Perkins needs more looks. Let him go 50/50 with Jennings.

More plays for Adams at TE. More use of Tye at H-Back or whatever you want to call that position.

isn't playing like one.He just doesn't have the feet for it.

In comment 13250667 Blue21 said:

Quote:

isn't playing like one.He just doesn't have the feet for it.

You're an expert on footwork? Do you even have a job? Please asshole, shut the fuck up and let the people who are 100x smarter than you make the decisions on who has the footwork to play left tackle in the NFL.