United Airlines just announced a new ticket option called "Basic Economy," banning the use of overhead bins for luggage. So now you're stuck with either paying for a checked bag, or paying for a more expensive ticket to bring it on the flight with you.
According to a release from U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer's office, United expects the plan to raise $1 billion for the company by 2020. Other airlines are waiting to see if this policy sticks before implementing it themselves. |
I don't see this policy sticking. Unless that "no overhead" ticket is really cheap, in which case they're competing with budget airlines, this seems like an easy win
for United's competitors.
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Shopping this summer for flights we kept coming up with Frontier Airlines as the lowest ticketed option into DC. Of course, they charge not only for checked bags, but for carry-ons also. In addition to the price of the ticket, they charge a fee for the seat. None of this shows immediately on Google Flights. If it did, they wouldn't be about $80 per ticket cheaper than the competition.
And this was going to happen at some point. Especially with the checked bag fees forcing passengers to just get the largest allowed carry-on and stuffing it to the brim.
Shopping this summer for flights we kept coming up with Frontier Airlines as the lowest ticketed option into DC. Of course, they charge not only for checked bags, but for carry-ons also. In addition to the price of the ticket, they charge a fee for the seat. None of this shows immediately on Google Flights. If it did, they wouldn't be about $80 per ticket cheaper than the competition.
Yup. Too many stupid (lazy) people that simply compare the listed fare prices before picking a flight. Then happily pay whatever additional fees are charged.
My mother-in-law always insists SunCountry is the cheapest option, particularly to Cancun. Flew them once due to flight time constraints and that'll be the last time. After all the fees it was easily more expensive then the majors and they actually changed my return itinerary after booking (added a stop).
Also, charge full ticket price for your service rat or ostrich or whatever the hell you supposedly need to fly; other than seeing eye dog.
When fuel prices retreated....the fee stayed. What a shock.
When fuel prices retreated....the fee stayed. What a shock.
The fee stayed, but fare prices dropped.
Fares dropped 50% over 30 years - ( New Window )
as someone who is primarily a business traveler and I assume my company will pay for this fee - add it - and make it steep to discourage the flight boarding process wreckers.
The first 2 things just about everyone has (Delta definitely does). Free TV depends on the size of the plane. I believe Delta has it on 767s and a few other domestics.
What if you show up at the gate with a carry on and have not paid?
What if you show up at the gate with a carry on and have not paid?
You'll be very clearly notified when you select a basic economy fare, and the premium between that and the lowest 'standard' economy fare, which permits rollaboard carry ons, will generally be between $10-30 each way, depending on market (using Delta as an example, which rolled out a similar fare product last year). For the ability to carry a bag on, select a seat in advance and possibly change your flight (for a fee) if needed, it might be well worth it. Conversely, if you are willing to forgo those things, and just want to 'get where you're going', the basic economy concept makes sense. For that, it's pretty good value, IMO, because United, along with the other majors, is simply on a different planet from an operational perspective than Spirit/Frontier/Allegiant/Sun Country, et al.
There will still be people who complain out of willful ignorance of what they're buying, and for them I have little sympathy.
these fees are just a round about way to increase fares
in the past 15 years ,mergers reduced nine large U.S. airlines to four
it is pretty much a monopoly now
That's a stretch. I primarily fly Delta so I can't speak for other airlines, but they will go out of their way at the gate (before boarding starts) to move people around so families can fly together. I was flying with my wife and daughter and used miles for one of our tickets so we didn't book together and we ended up with 2 seats together and the 3rd a few rows away. Without even asking, they moved the 3 of us into a row together. They also allow families with small children to pre-board.
these fees are just a round about way to increase fares
in the past 15 years ,mergers reduced nine large U.S. airlines to four
it is pretty much a monopoly now
Seeing as prices (including fees) have dropped over this time period, they're doing a pretty shitty job of it.
Some of this is happening already. When's the last time you flew? I fly a few times a month and last week I flew JetBlue to Chicago. I don't normally fly JetBlue very often and don't have any special status with them, but last minute thing.
I was in a row near the back of the plane and my boarding pass said boarding group 2. I figure they board by the back first (like you'd expect) and I'd be among the first to board.
So they announce boarding and call for mosaic club members (I assume this is their frequent flyers who reach a certain threshold).
then they announce anyone who needs extra time (no idea other than old people or disabled who this might be but sometimes random people board at this time)
then they called anyone who purchased extra space seats.
By this time there was like 6 of us left in the boarding area.
I felt like Ben Stiller in Meet the Parents when he was waiting to board the plane home.
By the time they called boarding group 2 it was me and one other person left to board the plane.
What if you show up at the gate with a carry on and have not paid?
Probably same way they monitor carry-ons that are too large. I'm sure the ticket will just say whether or not you've paid and if you haven't they'll charge you right at the gate. Infrastructure is already in place since you can upgrade to first/business class there.
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Let's hope he wins. That is not the only stipulation of this new proposed economy class. It also prevents the fliers from boarding before any other classes of ticketholders and prevents seat assignments prior to the day of the flight. that could really impact a family flying together.
That's a stretch. I primarily fly Delta so I can't speak for other airlines, but they will go out of their way at the gate (before boarding starts) to move people around so families can fly together. I was flying with my wife and daughter and used miles for one of our tickets so we didn't book together and we ended up with 2 seats together and the 3rd a few rows away. Without even asking, they moved the 3 of us into a row together. They also allow families with small children to pre-board.
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checked bag fees were blamed on higher fuel prices.
When fuel prices retreated....the fee stayed. What a shock.
The fee stayed, but fare prices dropped.
Fares dropped 50% over 30 years - ( New Window )
We need to work on data interpretation. The chart shows that while prices dropped from 1980 to 2002... fares are up adjusting for inflation with or without fees since 2002.
And in that time, the seat sizes have become smaller too.
It really is designed for the last minute bargain traveler who doesn't need to pay for the extra amenities.
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Let's hope he wins. That is not the only stipulation of this new proposed economy class. It also prevents the fliers from boarding before any other classes of ticketholders and prevents seat assignments prior to the day of the flight. that could really impact a family flying together.
Some of this is happening already. When's the last time you flew? I fly a few times a month and last week I flew JetBlue to Chicago. I don't normally fly JetBlue very often and don't have any special status with them, but last minute thing.
I was in a row near the back of the plane and my boarding pass said boarding group 2. I figure they board by the back first (like you'd expect) and I'd be among the first to board.
So they announce boarding and call for mosaic club members (I assume this is their frequent flyers who reach a certain threshold).
then they announce anyone who needs extra time (no idea other than old people or disabled who this might be but sometimes random people board at this time)
then they called anyone who purchased extra space seats.
By this time there was like 6 of us left in the boarding area.
I felt like Ben Stiller in Meet the Parents when he was waiting to board the plane home.
By the time they called boarding group 2 it was me and one other person left to board the plane.
Their gate people are rude and inexcusably ignorant about their own rules
Their flights are usually late and i have flown on dirty planes numerous times in the past.
They are akin Spirit air with a make-believe pedigree from the past
It really is designed for the last minute bargain traveler who doesn't need to pay for the extra amenities.
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designed to compete with the likes of Spirit/Frontier. The legacy carriers have lost a tremendous amount of business to the lower cost carriers. This is a move to get some of those travelers back.
It really is designed for the last minute bargain traveler who doesn't need to pay for the extra amenities.
Extra amenities? This prevents a flier from traveling without any standard luggage. Only a small duffle or similar type bag will fit under the seat.
Many travelers fly with just a laptop bag that would fit under the seat.
But the overhead bag crisis of recent years seems to be an obvious bi-product of the market responding to checked bag fees. Who the hell is going to buy an expensive ticket to cross the country on a plane and not bring a change of underwear? Charge away for luggage if you must, but only overhead or underneath. Not in both places.
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In comment 13250236 DC Gmen Fan said:
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designed to compete with the likes of Spirit/Frontier. The legacy carriers have lost a tremendous amount of business to the lower cost carriers. This is a move to get some of those travelers back.
It really is designed for the last minute bargain traveler who doesn't need to pay for the extra amenities.
Extra amenities? This prevents a flier from traveling without any standard luggage. Only a small duffle or similar type bag will fit under the seat.
Many travelers fly with just a laptop bag that would fit under the seat.
What if you show up at the gate with a carry on and have not paid?
Easy. If your bag qualifies as a 'personal item', in other words, it is sized to fit under your seat, it comes on with you at no fee. United installed sizers at its gates with two baskets, a larger bin on the bottom for rollaboard-sized carry ons, and a smaller one on top for personal items. Anything questionable will be placed in the sizer, and large items are to be checked at a fee.
To effectuate this, all Basic Economy passengers will be in boarding group 5 (last), so those customers will be relatively simple to separate from the different groups. Agents will proactively check all large carry-on bags from this group, charging as appropriate.
The "charging to use overhead bins" thing is sort of inaccurate... nobody will be policing overhead bin space once on board, and Basic Economy passengers will be distributed all around the cabin as they won't receive seat assignments until inside of 24 hours before departure. If you are a Basic Economy passenger, carry a personal item on board and find overhead bin space, technically, you are free to use it. The likelihood is, of course, that the overhead bins will be full long before Basic Economy passengers board, so the point becomes moot anyway in most cases.
One theoretical benefit United will tout is that Basic Economy fares will result in more overhead bin space for customers paying higher fares, but I'm not expecting a material difference.
My understanding is that with this class of ticket, there is no pre-boarding (I wonder how they would handle a disabled passenger). there is also no seat selection at all until arriving at the airport. So, they are first looking at a very small percentage of seats in your ticket class the day of the flight. If it is a full flight, there is not much flexibility.
Delta (presumably all the majors) already have 'tiered' boarding:
First Class
Sky Priority (Gold and up)
Families/elderly
Tier 1
Tier 2
Tier 3
Tier 4
Tiers 1-4 (or whatever they're called) are technically not "pre-boarding" and these fares would likely be in Tier 4. That said, I highly doubt that they would prohibit a family with young kids from boarding in that early group, particularly if you have a stroller. I've had Tier 3/4 seats when flying alone with a 3 year old and they let us board with the family group.
If you have a large family it may be hard to rearrange everyone to seat you near each other, but for 2-3 people flying together I don't see issues. And most gate agents are pretty helpful as long as you treat them respectfully.
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My understanding is that with this class of ticket, there is no pre-boarding (I wonder how they would handle a disabled passenger). there is also no seat selection at all until arriving at the airport. So, they are first looking at a very small percentage of seats in your ticket class the day of the flight. If it is a full flight, there is not much flexibility.
Delta (presumably all the majors) already have 'tiered' boarding:
First Class
Sky Priority (Gold and up)
Families/elderly
Tier 1
Tier 2
Tier 3
Tier 4
Tiers 1-4 (or whatever they're called) are technically not "pre-boarding" and these fares would likely be in Tier 4. That said, I highly doubt that they would prohibit a family with young kids from boarding in that early group, particularly if you have a stroller. I've had Tier 3/4 seats when flying alone with a 3 year old and they let us board with the family group.
If you have a large family it may be hard to rearrange everyone to seat you near each other, but for 2-3 people flying together I don't see issues. And most gate agents are pretty helpful as long as you treat them respectfully.
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In comment 13250244 Matt M. said:
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In comment 13250236 DC Gmen Fan said:
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designed to compete with the likes of Spirit/Frontier. The legacy carriers have lost a tremendous amount of business to the lower cost carriers. This is a move to get some of those travelers back.
It really is designed for the last minute bargain traveler who doesn't need to pay for the extra amenities.
Extra amenities? This prevents a flier from traveling without any standard luggage. Only a small duffle or similar type bag will fit under the seat.
Many travelers fly with just a laptop bag that would fit under the seat.
Many? Define many. That is the case of a business traveller making a day trip. how often is that the case? What percentage of fliers?
Well Matt I can't give you a number, but all I can tell you is that a large % of passengers I see don't board with a bag that would need overhead space.
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In comment 13250173 lawguy9801 said:
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checked bag fees were blamed on higher fuel prices.
When fuel prices retreated....the fee stayed. What a shock.
The fee stayed, but fare prices dropped.
Fares dropped 50% over 30 years - ( New Window )
We need to work on data interpretation. The chart shows that while prices dropped from 1980 to 2002... fares are up adjusting for inflation with or without fees since 2002.
And in that time, the seat sizes have become smaller too.
They're up over that short period, but still down relative to what they were 3 decades ago.
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In comment 13250198 Matt M. said:
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Let's hope he wins. That is not the only stipulation of this new proposed economy class. It also prevents the fliers from boarding before any other classes of ticketholders and prevents seat assignments prior to the day of the flight. that could really impact a family flying together.
Some of this is happening already. When's the last time you flew? I fly a few times a month and last week I flew JetBlue to Chicago. I don't normally fly JetBlue very often and don't have any special status with them, but last minute thing.
I was in a row near the back of the plane and my boarding pass said boarding group 2. I figure they board by the back first (like you'd expect) and I'd be among the first to board.
So they announce boarding and call for mosaic club members (I assume this is their frequent flyers who reach a certain threshold).
then they announce anyone who needs extra time (no idea other than old people or disabled who this might be but sometimes random people board at this time)
then they called anyone who purchased extra space seats.
By this time there was like 6 of us left in the boarding area.
I felt like Ben Stiller in Meet the Parents when he was waiting to board the plane home.
By the time they called boarding group 2 it was me and one other person left to board the plane.
But, most airlines don't board back to front anymore. They board disabled, passengers with small children (2 and under), first class, business class, whatever-plus with the extra legroom, etc. The last zone to board is the back of the plane, even though this makes inherently harder for them to board.
Not true at all. After pre-boarding and premium boarding, back of the plane is first in general boarding on almost every airline.
I fly extensively.
I know when we flew United, small child was clearly defined as 2 and under and strictly enforce. As a family of 5 with our youngest at 4 years old, we were not afforded an early boarding.
Haven't flown United (continental) in 5+ years. Delta's never given me an issue and I've flown numerous times since my daughter turned 3. Maybe bring a stroller with you? Free to gate check and makes them seem younger! Easier to get through the airport too.
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In comment 13250219 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 13250198 Matt M. said:
Quote:
Let's hope he wins. That is not the only stipulation of this new proposed economy class. It also prevents the fliers from boarding before any other classes of ticketholders and prevents seat assignments prior to the day of the flight. that could really impact a family flying together.
Some of this is happening already. When's the last time you flew? I fly a few times a month and last week I flew JetBlue to Chicago. I don't normally fly JetBlue very often and don't have any special status with them, but last minute thing.
I was in a row near the back of the plane and my boarding pass said boarding group 2. I figure they board by the back first (like you'd expect) and I'd be among the first to board.
So they announce boarding and call for mosaic club members (I assume this is their frequent flyers who reach a certain threshold).
then they announce anyone who needs extra time (no idea other than old people or disabled who this might be but sometimes random people board at this time)
then they called anyone who purchased extra space seats.
By this time there was like 6 of us left in the boarding area.
I felt like Ben Stiller in Meet the Parents when he was waiting to board the plane home.
By the time they called boarding group 2 it was me and one other person left to board the plane.
But, most airlines don't board back to front anymore. They board disabled, passengers with small children (2 and under), first class, business class, whatever-plus with the extra legroom, etc. The last zone to board is the back of the plane, even though this makes inherently harder for them to board.
Not true at all. After pre-boarding and premium boarding, back of the plane is first in general boarding on almost every airline.
I fly extensively.
I think the issue is that there are so many "premium" boarding groups these days. Elite and then Gold and then credit card holders and then the ones who pay for advance seating and then all the zones. And as you said, half of them are douchebags who try to bring more baggage than they can or should onboard.