United Airlines just announced a new ticket option called "Basic Economy," banning the use of overhead bins for luggage. So now you're stuck with either paying for a checked bag, or paying for a more expensive ticket to bring it on the flight with you.
According to a release from U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer's office, United expects the plan to raise $1 billion for the company by 2020. Other airlines are waiting to see if this policy sticks before implementing it themselves. |
I don't see this policy sticking. Unless that "no overhead" ticket is really cheap, in which case they're competing with budget airlines, this seems like an easy win
for United's competitors.
link - (
New Window )
but general boarding is still back of the plane first even if it's just me and two other dudes waiting for group whatever to be called.
except Southwest, they give you a boarding group, and when that group boards you can sit anywhere (if they still do that)
Not true at all. After pre-boarding and premium boarding, back of the plane is first in general boarding on almost every airline.
I fly extensively. [/quote]
United will be changing its boarding process once the Basic Economy product is available, but it won't be a fundamental change, as there will still be groups. Right now, the process at UA is:
- Disabled/under 2 preboard
- Uniformed military/dependents
- Global Services (highest revenue frequent flyers)
- Group 1 (premium cabin and top-tier frequent flyers)
- Group 2 (mid/low tier frequent flyers, 'Premier Access', credit card holders with priority boarding)
- Group 3 (economy class window seats)
- Group 4 (economy class middle seats)
- Group 5 (economy class aisle seats)
Passengers on the same record with different group numbers/seat assignments get the highest qualifying group assignment. United is unique in that it uses the "WilMA" boarding method after priority boarding, which is based on a theory that aircraft board faster when fewer passengers have to get up and step into the aisle to allow others to access their seats. Ideally, the window passengers board first, then middles, then aisles with nobody needing to get up out of their seats once situated.
Of course, this never plays out in practice and United has some of the longer average boarding times in the industry. The Basic Economy concept is actually part of a strategy to speed up turns by reducing the number of people who board with a bag, find no space to stow it, and have to fight their way upstream to check the bag, slowing down departures.
Of course, this never plays out in practice and United has some of the longer average boarding times in the industry. The Basic Economy concept is actually part of a strategy to speed up turns by reducing the number of people who board with a bag, find no space to stow it, and have to fight their way upstream to check the bag, slowing down departures.
Are you a regulator in the aviation industry?
And to be fair, the number of people boarding with a bag increased due to the fees for checked bags!
We landed and I went right to the United ticket area to inform them of what transpired they had me fill out a formal complaint and stated unequivocally that she was wrong and I filed a formal complaint with United. 6 weeks later i get the typical form letter that is a non-apology apology BS from them. Have not flown with them since and never will
Quote:
Of course, this never plays out in practice and United has some of the longer average boarding times in the industry. The Basic Economy concept is actually part of a strategy to speed up turns by reducing the number of people who board with a bag, find no space to stow it, and have to fight their way upstream to check the bag, slowing down departures.
Are you a regulator in the aviation industry?
And to be fair, the number of people boarding with a bag increased due to the fees for checked bags!
I am not a regulator per se (not in government), but I'm in the industry and aviation regulatory work is a big part of what I do... how could you guess?
$30 bag charges drove to paying over $100K per year to fly?
Wow - good to be you.
When fuel prices retreated....the fee stayed. What a shock.
Yeah but cost of flight hasn't gone up.. I use to fly cheap in early 2000's as I do now.. Back then Oil was as low as can be.. Airline industry isn't a monopoly.. if you don't like to pay for baggage then fly Southwest.. Government should stay out of this unless there is collusion..
I personally never check baggage domestically. Backpack, jacket, and small suitcase that fits under any seat or in any compartment is all I ever need. I don't see my behaviour as a problem but on most flights I go on nowadays there is not room for carry on and it either slows loading or people end up jamming stuff wherever they can. So it seems like more and more people are carrying on more and more items.
Maybe this will cut down on the dumb fucks bringing in 2.5 ft by 3 ft "carry on" bags.
And finally, if you take your shoes off on the airplane like the woman that sat behind me last week, you're a filthy animal.
Delta has all of that - other than the cattle call boarding process - as well as free movies on flights. Plus - if you fly a lot - they have the option of getting upgraded to Economy Comfort or First Class. Southwest doesn't have those options.
as someone who is primarily a business traveler and I assume my company will pay for this fee - add it - and make it steep to discourage the flight boarding process wreckers.
Agree 100%. I usually check my bag and rarely have any issues getting it promptly.
A couple weeks ago I was on a flight and saw a couple who was forced to check their bags bc there was no more overhead space - they screamed and cried like babies about it, fucking embarrassing.
Quote:
their online checking 24 hours in advance, digital boarding pass processes, their unique preboard organization. free TV on the flight via mobile phone for FREE. no extra fees.
Delta has all of that - other than the cattle call boarding process - as well as free movies on flights. Plus - if you fly a lot - they have the option of getting upgraded to Economy Comfort or First Class. Southwest doesn't have those options.
In Southwest's favor there's no charge to check bags, and no fees to change flights.
Quote:
In comment 13250175 mattlawson said:
Quote:
their online checking 24 hours in advance, digital boarding pass processes, their unique preboard organization. free TV on the flight via mobile phone for FREE. no extra fees.
Delta has all of that - other than the cattle call boarding process - as well as free movies on flights. Plus - if you fly a lot - they have the option of getting upgraded to Economy Comfort or First Class. Southwest doesn't have those options.
In Southwest's favor there's no charge to check bags, and no fees to change flights.
It depends on the type of flyer you are, I suppose. I fly quite often - about 35-45 times a year - and want the upgrades offered by Delta. I'm a business traveler so I don't care about bag fees - though I never have any because I can check up to 3 bags for free.
If you fly a few times a year Southwest might be the best option. Again, you pick and choose what is most important and pull the trigger on a ticket.
As Louis CK would say - "you're flying in a seat in the sky at 500 miles per hour!"
Both Air Canada and Westjet did this on my last 4 flights. Do no American carriers do this?
I think most do for large planes (two aisles), but I believe studies have shown little difference in boarding times for typical one aisle planes when boarding back to front. If it was faster, airlines would do it as that means quicker turnarounds which means more flights.
United merged with Continental. American merged with US Airways.
I think the first big domino was Delta merging with Northwest (early 2000s).
I hardly ever use the overhead.
Granted, I'm short and petite, as is the Mrs, so it's easy for me.
Some of this is on the airlines, as they've allowed people to bring some hellaciously huge 'carry ons' and are now trying to curb people from skirting the checked luggage fee.
Still, it's a money making gambit. I carry it. I stow it. the airline doesn't do shit. why should they make money off it? (inserting straw argument here): weight? charge you fat mofo's more, and us petite people less.
That started after the checked bag fees. Bad business to tell frequent fliers or people paying premium prices that there's no room for your carry on bag.
I hardly ever use the overhead.
Granted, I'm short and petite, as is the Mrs, so it's easy for me.
Some of this is on the airlines, as they've allowed people to bring some hellaciously huge 'carry ons' and are now trying to curb people from skirting the checked luggage fee.
Still, it's a money making gambit. I carry it. I stow it. the airline doesn't do shit. why should they make money off it? (inserting straw argument here): weight? charge you fat mofo's more, and us petite people less.
If a bag can't fit under the seat you should have to check it? That makes absolutely no sense and might be the dumbest post on BBI today. Congrats sir!
I hardly ever use the overhead.
Granted, I'm short and petite, as is the Mrs, so it's easy for me.
Some of this is on the airlines, as they've allowed people to bring some hellaciously huge 'carry ons' and are now trying to curb people from skirting the checked luggage fee.
Still, it's a money making gambit. I carry it. I stow it. the airline doesn't do shit. why should they make money off it? (inserting straw argument here): weight? charge you fat mofo's more, and us petite people less.
Overhead bins are actually larger than ever before on most aircraft, but people carry on more crap than ever and there's only so much space to work with inside that metal tube.
The biggest reason? Airlines now bundle 'priority boarding' into credit card deals and as an ancillary add-on fee. The credit card deals are multibillion-dollar transactions, and if United has a card that gets people 'priority boarding' (I use the term loosely because when everyone's a priority... nobody is a priority!) then AA and DL have to follow suit. It's a copycat business and boarding by group allows the airlines to further segment and upsell.
Studies also show that there's no appreciable time advantage to boarding back-to-front, despite common sense maybe suggesting otherwise.
Quote:
why the fuck doesn't every airline board from the back to the front? It makes no sense.
The biggest reason? Airlines now bundle 'priority boarding' into credit card deals and as an ancillary add-on fee. The credit card deals are multibillion-dollar transactions, and if United has a card that gets people 'priority boarding' (I use the term loosely because when everyone's a priority... nobody is a priority!) then AA and DL have to follow suit. It's a copycat business and boarding by group allows the airlines to further segment and upsell.
Studies also show that there's no appreciable time advantage to boarding back-to-front, despite common sense maybe suggesting otherwise.
Also I would think the fact that so many people sitting in the far back use up the storage of those sitting closer to the front that it creates a mess for those bordering later to find storage. If you could somehow eliminate that aspect it would work better
I'm fine with the fees if it reduces the craze and makes more room.
Quote:
why the fuck doesn't every airline board from the back to the front? It makes no sense.
That started after the checked bag fees. Bad business to tell frequent fliers or people paying premium prices that there's no room for your carry on bag.
So do what jetblue does. They first board mosaic members (people who fly a lot with them) then they board people who paid extra for their seats (even more space) then after that they board from back to front.
my experience is that the overheads are getting smaller. At the same time, the planes are getting smaller, too. Not any given model, but they fly smaller models, overall.
I'll back off on the if it doesn't fit under the seat...sort of. there used to be a limit on carry on size. that size fit under the seat. this was ten or so years ago. I remember specifically, because I like to bring a small cooler when I travel, was using one as a carryon, and it was barely legal at a time when they were making noise about enforcing size limits. it fit under my seat.
dumbest post? I'm guessing you're one of those folk who try to bring a slightly less than full size case on as a carry on, and then recline your seat all the way after taking up half the overhead bin.
There is a special place in hell for those people.
Why? just reline yours too and there is no difference.
So, the people who would potentially have to pay for carry on baggage are those who basically have no status and/or barely travel.
The earlier post is correct in that these people who are most likely not traveling on business are just looking for the cheapest fare. So, this is a way to compete with Spirit airlines and the other budget carriers who already charge for carry on bags. ...but they charge EVERYONE.
if the airlines are going to scrimp on space, they should limit the recline to an inch or two, or just do away with the recline. It's horribly rude to recline to the full extent the seat can go. Most people don't do it. only the cads do.
my experience is that the overheads are getting smaller. At the same time, the planes are getting smaller, too. Not any given model, but they fly smaller models, overall.
I'll back off on the if it doesn't fit under the seat...sort of. there used to be a limit on carry on size. that size fit under the seat. this was ten or so years ago. I remember specifically, because I like to bring a small cooler when I travel, was using one as a carryon, and it was barely legal at a time when they were making noise about enforcing size limits. it fit under my seat.
dumbest post? I'm guessing you're one of those folk who try to bring a slightly less than full size case on as a carry on, and then recline your seat all the way after taking up half the overhead bin.
They do fly a lot of smaller planes (CRJs, Embraerso, etc) for many routes now, but the overheads in comparably sized planes are getting larger. I.e. the overhead in a 767 is larger now then it was 10 years ago.
They do have size limits for carry ons. You get 1 carry on and 1 personal bag (laptop/purse). Problem is the limit for the carry on is based on what fits in a 737 overhead and those bags don't come close to fitting in CRJ and Embraer size planes so they end up Gaye checking most.
Quote:
In comment 13250246 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
In comment 13250244 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 13250236 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
designed to compete with the likes of Spirit/Frontier. The legacy carriers have lost a tremendous amount of business to the lower cost carriers. This is a move to get some of those travelers back.
It really is designed for the last minute bargain traveler who doesn't need to pay for the extra amenities.
Extra amenities? This prevents a flier from traveling without any standard luggage. Only a small duffle or similar type bag will fit under the seat.
Many travelers fly with just a laptop bag that would fit under the seat.
Many? Define many. That is the case of a business traveller making a day trip. how often is that the case? What percentage of fliers?
Well Matt I can't give you a number, but all I can tell you is that a large % of passengers I see don't board with a bag that would need overhead space.
Quote:
In comment 13250564 MookGiants said:
Quote:
why the fuck doesn't every airline board from the back to the front? It makes no sense.
The biggest reason? Airlines now bundle 'priority boarding' into credit card deals and as an ancillary add-on fee. The credit card deals are multibillion-dollar transactions, and if United has a card that gets people 'priority boarding' (I use the term loosely because when everyone's a priority... nobody is a priority!) then AA and DL have to follow suit. It's a copycat business and boarding by group allows the airlines to further segment and upsell.
Studies also show that there's no appreciable time advantage to boarding back-to-front, despite common sense maybe suggesting otherwise.
Also I would think the fact that so many people sitting in the far back use up the storage of those sitting closer to the front that it creates a mess for those bordering later to find storage. If you could somehow eliminate that aspect it would work better
Delta does that somewhat by having dedicated overhead bin space for those who paid extra for Comfort+. It would stretch resources because airlines tend to crew the minimum legally required and the passengers in the pointy end complain when they don't get their pre-departure beverage, but if you stationed a representative every x number of rows to make sure that people were loading bags somewhere close to where they have a seat it would keep bin space open.
my experience is that the overheads are getting smaller. At the same time, the planes are getting smaller, too. Not any given model, but they fly smaller models, overall.
I'll back off on the if it doesn't fit under the seat...sort of. there used to be a limit on carry on size. that size fit under the seat. this was ten or so years ago. I remember specifically, because I like to bring a small cooler when I travel, was using one as a carryon, and it was barely legal at a time when they were making noise about enforcing size limits. it fit under my seat.
dumbest post? I'm guessing you're one of those folk who try to bring a slightly less than full size case on as a carry on, and then recline your seat all the way after taking up half the overhead bin.
No way. I carry on my small roll aboard and a laptop bag. The bag goes under the seat, the roll aboard fits perfectly overhead and I never recline.
It's really not that difficult to be a conscientious and polite traveler. Not sure when you last traveled via airplane but you sound extremely ignorant. A cooler? Come on.
Quote:
I only fly once or twice a year. been about a year since I've flown.
my experience is that the overheads are getting smaller. At the same time, the planes are getting smaller, too. Not any given model, but they fly smaller models, overall.
I'll back off on the if it doesn't fit under the seat...sort of. there used to be a limit on carry on size. that size fit under the seat. this was ten or so years ago. I remember specifically, because I like to bring a small cooler when I travel, was using one as a carryon, and it was barely legal at a time when they were making noise about enforcing size limits. it fit under my seat.
dumbest post? I'm guessing you're one of those folk who try to bring a slightly less than full size case on as a carry on, and then recline your seat all the way after taking up half the overhead bin.
They do fly a lot of smaller planes (CRJs, Embraerso, etc) for many routes now, but the overheads in comparably sized planes are getting larger. I.e. the overhead in a 767 is larger now then it was 10 years ago.
They do have size limits for carry ons. You get 1 carry on and 1 personal bag (laptop/purse). Problem is the limit for the carry on is based on what fits in a 737 overhead and those bags don't come close to fitting in CRJ and Embraer size planes so they end up Gaye checking most.
Again, it's about planning. I try to avoid CRJs and the Embraer 175-190 because of the overhead space limitations and having to gate check. Out of my home airport I fly the 717 (single seat in row 20 is key) or the Mad Dog (25 c exit row) probably 95% of the time.
And many of the 737s and A320/321s have the new bins overhead allowing for way more carry on space.
As a frequent flyer, I don't think I should be punished for not bringing on board my entire wardrobe, yet I've had people ask several times for me to stow the backpack under the seat in front of me.
Everytime I decline. And it is as much the airlines fault as it is the passengers, since they make it ridiculous to check a bag and have loopholes that are easy to go through. Hell, I flew to Germany a couple weeks ago on American where I don't have status, and I checked one bag for free. If I had a second checked bag, it would've been $100. That's BS, I'd just have brought it on board and stowed it, which takes up space, and probably results in people asking those with backpacks to suck it up.
the greasy sweaty onion smell of their Johnny Rocket's burger makes we want to punch them in their face.
and then they have to get up 4 times on a two hour flight.
I'd rather someone recline.
You're fine, it's effective for tickets sold after 1/1, for travel after 4/1. And it's a new class of ticket, so you'd have to specifically buy "Basic Economy" class tickets.
Again, it's about planning. I try to avoid CRJs and the Embraer 175-190 because of the overhead space limitations and having to gate check. Out of my home airport I fly the 717 (single seat in row 20 is key) or the Mad Dog (25 c exit row) probably 95% of the time.
And many of the 737s and A320/321s have the new bins overhead allowing for way more carry on space.
Can't always avoid the CRJs though. I don't fly much for work anymore, but when I do it's generally into Bloomington, IL. Only options are CRJs/Embraers. But gate checking doesn't bother me much. With everyone doing it the plane empties much quicker and small airports (in my experience) are much quicker at getting the bags off. Even on the return flight to MSP, they're pretty efficient at unloading the gate checked bags, particularly when the bag elevators in the terminal are working.