according to bleacher report, They are close to a deal.
If this is true look at their rotation: Scherzer, Sale, Strasburg, Roark, Gonzalez, and they might still have Giolito.
And the Yanks have Tanaka....that's it...Everyone else is unproven and young..Could they be something?? Maybe...They are talking about Severino being better suited for the bull pen and who knows what Kap will do this coming season. Cessa and Green may be a back end solid pitchers for us, but I have zero faith in Pineda.
I know that we are in a youth movement but until these prospects step on the mound and prove that they are solid pitchers we are far from solid rotation. I still say stay the course but its hard to see us struggle so bad at SP.
Can someone link?
@jonahkeri
Per BBWAA vote: Starting next year, all Hall of Fame ballots will be made public.
there you go...next time look at bleacher report.
link - ( New Window )
What are the Nats giving up here?
But better 4/5.
And the Phillies had a better lineup.
and that didn't work out too well, such a great NLCS, but the Giants came out on top.
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Sale may yet end up in Washington, I can't find a single source suggesting they are finalizing a deal. Not one of the big writers is reporting this.
there you go...next time look at bleacher report. link - ( New Window )
What? Where does it say they are finalizing a deal? Did you link the wrong article? The top story is from YESTERDAY
"On Monday morning, Jon Heyman of Today's Knuckleball reported the Washington Nationals would have a meeting with the White Sox regarding Sale on Monday afternoon and that the Boston Red Sox and others remain in on the pitcher.
On Monday night, Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports reported there was a "legitimate chance" of a trade, as the teams discuss the final pieces of the deal."
Where is this report of finalizing a deal?
The #Whitesox did not come close to trading Chris Sale tonight but acknowledge the #Nats were very aggressive in proposals"
next time try posting correct thread titles if you are going to be snarky.
What are the Nats giving up here?
While Strasburg's arm is a legit concern he's much more of a sure thing than Harvey. Harvey is coming back from an injury with very, very few success stories, Strasburg just put up a 2.92 FIP season striking out 11.2/9. Harvey may yet return as Harvey but odds are heavily in Strasburg's favor in comparing the 2 for 2017.
Bryan Hoch @BryanHoch 18s19 seconds ago Fort Washington, MD
Get those tickets now. Yankees will honor Derek Jeter with the retirement of No. 2 and the unveiling of his Monument Park plaque on May 14.
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In comment 13251431 DanMetroMan said:
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Sale may yet end up in Washington, I can't find a single source suggesting they are finalizing a deal. Not one of the big writers is reporting this.
there you go...next time look at bleacher report. link - ( New Window )
What? Where does it say they are finalizing a deal? Did you link the wrong article? The top story is from YESTERDAY
"On Monday morning, Jon Heyman of Today's Knuckleball reported the Washington Nationals would have a meeting with the White Sox regarding Sale on Monday afternoon and that the Boston Red Sox and others remain in on the pitcher.
On Monday night, Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports reported there was a "legitimate chance" of a trade, as the teams discuss the final pieces of the deal."
Where is this report of finalizing a deal?
The word finalizing is in the fucking headline...Read everything. So what its from yesterday. Its still a reliable source. There is even the word final pieces in the Ken quote. That says to me they are finalizing and have move past prelim talks.
Wow. I honestly hope the Nats do it. That is a ton.
1. It's not the most recent news
2. It's from the Bleacher Report
3. "Finalizing" means a deal has been agreed to and yet Ken Rosenthal says "legitimate chance". If the Giants were said to be "finalizing" contract extension for Eli it would be taken to mean "it's done barring a shocker". I'm not going to keep this going but you were wrong. There is no deal being finalized at the moment.
Sources: #RedSox checked in today with #WhiteSox on Sale. Dombrowski said no driving force to add SP, but not necessarily one-team race."
Does that sound like the White Sox are "finalizing" a deal? I actually would be shocked if he's not a National at the end of this but there is no Sale deal being "finalized" according to ANY reputable source.
Plus, it's not like they'd be immediately shitty after winning.
Scherzer and Strasburg are under contract long-term and Sale two more seasons.
health would be the biggest concern.
No. That was for McCutchen.
Link - ( New Window )
Plus, it's not like they'd be immediately shitty after winning.
Scherzer and Strasburg are under contract long-term and Sale two more seasons.
health would be the biggest concern.
That's the thing though... Power pitchers arms can go at any time as we are seeing first hand. I think any team going with that model is going to have issues keeping an entire rotation together and healthy in any given season. You almost have to pray for "luck" that you get everyone into the postseason at the same time in one piece. Also, it's probably not a big deal but Sale is coming off a lesser season (by his standards). I dont think it makes them drastically better. Giolito likely ends up a 3.5 FIP pitcher in short order and he has 6 years of control left.
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I'd do that, I'd sell my soul for a championship even if it meant I needed to rebuild the farm.
Plus, it's not like they'd be immediately shitty after winning.
Scherzer and Strasburg are under contract long-term and Sale two more seasons.
health would be the biggest concern.
That's the thing though... Power pitchers arms can go at any time as we are seeing first hand. I think any team going with that model is going to have issues keeping an entire rotation together and healthy in any given season. You almost have to pray for "luck" that you get everyone into the postseason at the same time in one piece. Also, it's probably not a big deal but Sale is coming off a lesser season (by his standards). I dont think it makes them drastically better. Giolito likely ends up a 3.5 FIP pitcher in short order and he has 6 years of control left.
no doubt it's a risk, but one I'd probably take.
Is there still an AL/NL premium for pitchers? Do advanced stats take into account the DH differences between the leagues?
Sale might look a little better in the NL.
Considering MOST Mets fans I know (or I talk to online) would deal him for a solid reliever I think that's a minority view lol
I said "our" top prospects. Are you going to tell me he's not? Easily top 10, most likely top 5 coming off a year where he was the second best hitter in the entire PCL (After TJ Rivera).
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Considering MOST Mets fans I know (or I talk to online) would deal him for a solid reliever I think that's a minority view lol
Yeah, I don't think most fans consider Nimmo much of a prospect. I do think ZG was saying "Mets top prospects" not baseballs top prospects. and like it or not, Nimmo is still in the Mets top 10 (maybe even top 5).
I'm not saying he's not good, because he's very good. I just think some of the proposed deals for him are really over-the-top considering his output the past few seasons.
5th in the AL in BAA. 3rd in the AL in WHIP. 2nd in the AL in K's. 3rd in the AL in innings pitched.
Now he gets to go to the light hitting NL east. He's going to make them a lot better.
I'm not saying he's not good, because he's very good. I just think some of the proposed deals for him are really over-the-top considering his output the past few seasons.
Greg,
Gotta keep in mind his contract. Bartolo Colon is making 12.5, Volquez 11. Sale's contract is a major boost to his value.
How do the Mets have a short window?
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who is now going to the NL where he gets to face pitchers and weak hitting 8 hitters. He's going to dominate in the NL East. It's a move you have to make if you are the Nats. Bad news for the Mets who I believe have a very short window here and they are letting the Nats get too far ahead of them.
How do the Mets have a short window?
They do. Harvey is a FA after 2018 (2 years), Cespedes will be 31 this season, Walker 31 this season, Wright and Reyes are old. It's roughly a 3 year window for the Mets barring something surprising.
Agree, I'd add Szapucki to that short list I'd be bummed if they traded him. 20 year old lefty who throws 95+ with a good curve. He's too far away for projection probably, but he's a player you can get excited about.
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will say the Robles/Giolito portion of the deal is all I would be caring about, Cecchini/Nimmo types aren't deal breakers when you can add a difference maker. Currently the Mets have 1 minor leaguer who I'd really be bummed dealing and that's Rosario.
Agree, I'd add Szapucki to that short list I'd be bummed if they traded him. 20 year old lefty who throws 95+ with a good curve. He's too far away for projection probably, but he's a player you can get excited about.
I mean I wouldn't WANT to trade Szapucki (or even Dunn) but at the end of the day if a star were available I wouldn't balk at including one of those 2. Both of them are unproven and reasonably far away (unlikely to throw an MLB pitch in 2017 barring something really surprising).
@jonahkeri
Per BBWAA vote: Starting next year, all Hall of Fame ballots will be made public.
The twitter posse's that will get formed over these votes will be dumb and annoying.
Sadly, I don't believe the Cubs window is short. Absolutely loaded with young regulars with "unlimited" money.
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In comment 13251550 DanMetroMan said:
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will say the Robles/Giolito portion of the deal is all I would be caring about, Cecchini/Nimmo types aren't deal breakers when you can add a difference maker. Currently the Mets have 1 minor leaguer who I'd really be bummed dealing and that's Rosario.
Agree, I'd add Szapucki to that short list I'd be bummed if they traded him. 20 year old lefty who throws 95+ with a good curve. He's too far away for projection probably, but he's a player you can get excited about.
I mean I wouldn't WANT to trade Szapucki (or even Dunn) but at the end of the day if a star were available I wouldn't balk at including one of those 2. Both of them are unproven and reasonably far away (unlikely to throw an MLB pitch in 2017 barring something really surprising).
In the right deal absolutely, but I'm a grudge holding M-fer and I still have hard feelings about Kazmir for Zambrano. Sure Kazmir was closer to the majors, but shit like that scars me.
I wouldn't have had a hard time if Kazmir were traded for value, but he wasn't., so in the right deal I'd trade anyone, even Rosario, but let's see the right deal first.
Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports that the Yankees are focused on Aroldis Chapman.
Heyman notes that Kenley Jansen is also being talked to, but Chapman is the team's first choice. And that makes sense, as they know Chapman well and he isn't tied to draft pick compensation. The hard-throwing left-hander told Marly Rivera of ESPN on Monday that he wants a six-year contract. Heyman writes that the Yankees won't do that, but that five years looks like a good bet
Because after the big two pieces the White Sox are looking to get back, Dan mentioned that they were still looking for 3 "other" NATS prospects back. If we were engaged in similar talk do you think the Nats would looking at some of our top prospects as well or do you think they would be looking to acquire the rights to our hot dog vendors??
Yeah I seriously doubt that but thanks. Nimmo is 100% in that next tier of "interesting" after top guys like Rosario in terms of the Mets and his name was brought up at last years deadline in the Lucroy and Bruce deals. If anything, Nimmo's national ranking status is hurt by Vegas at the moment (was still cracking top 100 lists mid-2015) and he'd be a nice upside play IMO. Your effort in trying to bash the Mets system is pretty transparent though. Always nice to have Greg the dick come out and play. :)
Which is why I mentioned somebody like Syndergaard as the second top piece(I guess maybe Matz too although he is frail but likely still has some value depending on the team) and never mentioned Nimmo as a "top piece".
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line on Mets/Sale if the White Sox really do get a deal headlined by Giolito/Robles the Mets simply couldn't match that without hurting the big club (ie Matz). That's not even a knock on the Mets system, just that the Nats have 2 "a-list" prospects at positions people covet, the Mets have 1 (Rosario).
Which is why I mentioned somebody like Syndergaard as the second top piece(I guess maybe Matz too although he is frail but likely still has some value depending on the team) and never mentioned Nimmo as a "top piece".
I'm not arguing with you. I'm just saying the Mets don't have 2 minor leaguers as appealing as the Nationals top 2. For all we know a year from now Robles looks like a turd and someone like Szapucki looks like a stud but timing is everything. "Every" team asks about Rosario, the other guys are different levels of good/solid prospects for right now.
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In comment 13251612 DanMetroMan said:
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line on Mets/Sale if the White Sox really do get a deal headlined by Giolito/Robles the Mets simply couldn't match that without hurting the big club (ie Matz). That's not even a knock on the Mets system, just that the Nats have 2 "a-list" prospects at positions people covet, the Mets have 1 (Rosario).
Which is why I mentioned somebody like Syndergaard as the second top piece(I guess maybe Matz too although he is frail but likely still has some value depending on the team) and never mentioned Nimmo as a "top piece".
I'm not arguing with you. I'm just saying the Mets don't have 2 minor leaguers as appealing as the Nationals top 2. For all we know a year from now Robles looks like a turd and someone like Szapucki looks like a stud but timing is everything. "Every" team asks about Rosario, the other guys are different levels of good/solid prospects for right now.
Didn't I say a pre-2016 Syndergaard and Rosario would be comparable though? I dont really get this discussion much. Seems like we were saying the same thing.
What would Davis cost? Could Nimmo/Lugo something of that nature get it done?
Part of the issue was when I said "I dont want to argue about it" I wasn't speaking to you, but generally (PJ, Greg, and others were also chiming in). Anyways, moving on. lol
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reportedly making "everybody" available at the right price. Their farm system blows so they could use an influx of talent.
What would Davis cost? Could Nimmo/Lugo something of that nature get it done?
The feeling is the Royals are going to get at least one "big" piece with the money Chapman/Jansen are rumored to be getting. I don't think that Mets package would be enough.
From the town I live in MA. Was all over the news everyday until the PED's.
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In comment 13251600 DanMetroMan said:
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reportedly making "everybody" available at the right price. Their farm system blows so they could use an influx of talent.
What would Davis cost? Could Nimmo/Lugo something of that nature get it done?
The feeling is the Royals are going to get at least one "big" piece with the money Chapman/Jansen are rumored to be getting. I don't think that Mets package would be enough.
I think he's only under contract for one more year, right? I'd still be interested even if it cost a little more than that. Davis/Reed/Familia would be an excellent back end.
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has elected FA. Was a nice story, then popped for PED's, horrendous 2016... which is always suspicious. I'm sure someone picks him up for AAA/AAAA depth.
From the town I live in MA. Was all over the news everyday until the PED's.
Swore up and down he didn't do anything wrong. Might be total BS but there were even rumors there were "tears" in his teammates eyes when he told them. Was absolutely awful in 2016 which doesn't really help his case. Someone will sign him as a starter in AAA but yeah, went from a feel good story to "hes a cheater".
Davis 1.86 FIP
Chapman 1.46 FIP
Jansen 1.80
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window in baseball.
Sadly, I don't believe the Cubs window is short. Absolutely loaded with young regulars with "unlimited" money.
We'll see. Lester is older and has a health history. Lackey is very old. Arrieta took a step back from his CY-like 2015, No closer. No good position for Schwarber.
See how prospects pan out (besides the ones in the majors already).
I would not be shocked if they miss the playoffs in 2017.
1 SP has made more starts over the last 9 seasons (James Shields). He's arguably the "least" injury prone SP in baseball with Buehrle gone and Arroyo basically done.
Rizzo, Bryant, Russell, Baez, Hendricks
I'm not even including unproven talent like Contreras, Soler, Almora or uber prospect Eloy Jimenez. I'd be beyond blown away if the Cubs are not perennial contenders for the next half decade minimum.
Adam Rubin, ESPN Staff Writer
1 SP has made more starts over the last 9 seasons (James Shields). He's arguably the "least" injury prone SP in baseball with Buehrle gone and Arroyo basically done.
He had cancer. It's not like that's a lifetime cure. Just saying he's 33 and been through cancer. No idea when his career will come to an end (not saying it's different than other pitchers, they can all break, but I have to think a cancer history makes him more susceptible for the end coming sooner).
the Mets swept that exact same Cubs team pretty much in 2015 sans Chapman and with a fully healthy Schwarber, a lights out Arrieta and Starlin Castro (for better or worse). Yes Hendricks had a good year in 2016, but kind of came out of nowhere and I'd need to see more before feeling like he's a stud.
Link - ( New Window )
They are also in discussion with Mitch Moreland.
Following
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@Ken_Rosenthal
Sources: #RedSox remain strongly in mix for #WhiteSoxs Sale, along with #Nationals.
Nationals, looking at RP options after losing Melancon, could pursue David Robertson as well as Sale in a big deal with White Sox.
According to fan graphs Thornburg had a significant uptick in velocity last year. Maybe he is just responding well to his relief role after years of struggling as a starter.
Moncada and Benintendi?
I'd love to see them give up those two and Kopech.
Moncada and Benintendi?
I'd love to see them give up those two and Kopech.
Neither Moncada or Benintendi are being discussed at the moment. Boston apparently flat "no" on both and the White Sox didn't walk away (who knows how true it is?).
According to fan graphs Thornburg had a significant uptick in velocity last year. Maybe he is just responding well to his relief role after years of struggling as a starter.
f-ing Red Sox. They'll get Sale (which is better than the Nats getting him IMO) and not give up a top 10 prospect.
While the Nats offer included two top 15 prospects.
JBJ shouldn't be a centerpiece in this trade.
His 2016 2nd half is more what he is than his 2016 1st half IMO.
Trade high I guess like the did with Iglesias.
Moncada and Benintendi?
I'd love to see them give up those two and Kopech.
No way they don't give up people who can contribute well and more broadly. Sale is very good but he is a shiny thing. Dombrowski likes shiny things though. In that way, he brings the personality and competence of a kitten to his job.
So in other words you are regurgitating what we've all said. Thanks.
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make that is competitive with the Nats?
Moncada and Benintendi?
I'd love to see them give up those two and Kopech.
If the Red Sox get Sale I will publicly cry.
No way they don't give up people who can contribute well and more broadly. Sale is very good but he is a shiny thing. Dombrowski likes shiny things though. In that way, he brings the personality and competence of a kitten to his job.
If the Red Sox can get Sale for JBJ and Devers you should drive them both to the airport and pay the tolls yourself.
JBJ is expendable and Devers is a prospect.
If that's the actual offer and it's being considered by the White Sox my guess is the Nats did NOT actually offer Giolito and Robles. Doesn't make sense IMO.
Everywhere else: .308/.290/.363
His 2016 split:
Fenway: .299/.378/.518
Road: .234/.319/.453
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some have with Nimmo. A corner OF with little power and average speed is not an intriguing prospect. Now he might be able to be a decent CF but if I were trading a star like Sale then Nimmo would not be one of the main pieces.
So in other words you are regurgitating what we've all said. Thanks.
Well I didn't read the entire thread but thanks for being an immature douche.
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In comment 13251794 pjcas18 said:
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make that is competitive with the Nats?
Moncada and Benintendi?
I'd love to see them give up those two and Kopech.
If the Red Sox get Sale I will publicly cry.
No way they don't give up people who can contribute well and more broadly. Sale is very good but he is a shiny thing. Dombrowski likes shiny things though. In that way, he brings the personality and competence of a kitten to his job.
If the Red Sox can get Sale for JBJ and Devers you should drive them both to the airport and pay the tolls yourself.
JBJ is expendable and Devers is a prospect.
If that's the actual offer and it's being considered by the White Sox my guess is the Nats did NOT actually offer Giolito and Robles. Doesn't make sense IMO.
PJ,
Word is those are just 2 of the 3 or 4 pieces involved.
BREAKING: Sale to #RedSox. Moncada, Kopech and two other prospects to #WhiteSox.
gutting farm systems is sort of overrated IMO. The Yankees went from middling to top 5 by trading two closers and a 40 year old DH.
If it means increasing your odds of winning a title, and it undoubtedly does, I'd trade prospects in a heartbeat.
BREAKING: Sale to #RedSox. Moncada, Kopech and two other prospects to #WhiteSox.
Wow. Depending on the prospects, quite the haul.
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In comment 13251794 pjcas18 said:
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make that is competitive with the Nats?
Moncada and Benintendi?
I'd love to see them give up those two and Kopech.
If the Red Sox get Sale I will publicly cry.
No way they don't give up people who can contribute well and more broadly. Sale is very good but he is a shiny thing. Dombrowski likes shiny things though. In that way, he brings the personality and competence of a kitten to his job.
If the Red Sox can get Sale for JBJ and Devers you should drive them both to the airport and pay the tolls yourself.
JBJ is expendable and Devers is a prospect.
If that's the actual offer and it's being considered by the White Sox my guess is the Nats did NOT actually offer Giolito and Robles. Doesn't make sense IMO.
-Conventional thinking is that the Dodgers and Yanks end up with Jansen or Chapman and the other team gets the other but that the Marlins are suddenly gumming up the works by potentially offering a big deal to one of them
-said the Mets are shopping Grandy but little interest so far except for a nibble from the O's
-They talked about Harper and the 2 nitwits asked if he may be dealt before free agency for a monster package but Sweeney said no team would give up that kind of package knowing he's definitely going to FA
-Said right now the market is freezing up for EE because teams are moving on, but that the Redsox may be interested
They also had an interesting discussion about George Steinbrenner deserving to be in the HOF. To me I fully remember the disaster that was Big George of the late 80's/early 90's but the guy should moonwalk into the HOF. No owner has had nearly the affect on the game the past 45 years he did.
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Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 30s31 seconds ago
BREAKING: Sale to #RedSox. Moncada, Kopech and two other prospects to #WhiteSox.
Wow. Depending on the prospects, quite the haul.
This team's future has just been decimated.
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it sucks for the immediate future because they get arguably a top 5 pitcher in baseball who is only 27 and tied up for 3 years at an incredible price. For the long term it is great because it would gut their farm system.
gutting farm systems is sort of overrated IMO. The Yankees went from middling to top 5 by trading two closers and a 40 year old DH.
If it means increasing your odds of winning a title, and it undoubtedly does, I'd trade prospects in a heartbeat.
I wouldn't say it is overrated. For a teams like Boston, Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, etc it is overrated because they have money spend in free agency to address their holes. For teams other teams with smaller payrolls the prospects value is much greater.
LF is a joke, anyone but Hanley and they're fine, and Benintendi can play RF.
I'd give up JBJ easily. I just think he's a good defensive player and his offense is Fenway aided. Won't produce above average at almost any other park.
Doesn't sound like he's in the trade though so far.
I'm still pissed that the Yankees didn't go hard after him when he was an IFA.
Thank goodness Ben 10 didn't get moved. He's going to be very good.
Moncada flailed badly during his late season call up. He is still very young so that's not the end all. But it does leave room to believe he may not be a lock.
Bottom line is that if Boston wins big within the next few years then they did ok.
Thankfully Benintendi, Betts Groome et al. Were not included
Thank goodness Ben 10 didn't get moved. He's going to be very good.
Moncada flailed badly during his late season call up. He is still very young so that's not the end all. But it does leave room to believe he may not be a lock.
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Mariners in serious talks with free agent Mark Trumbo. He would bring serious thump and length to Mariners... http://es.pn/2g8kN0x
Source: The Cubs are closing in on a deal for Wade Davis.
I'd expect this to some package involving Soler.
Doesn't look to be final, because I'm sure a full medical is being done on both. Davis has forearm issues.
If completed, this is good for Soler. He needs to play everyday, and in the AL can move between RF and DH.
How long before the Yankees sign Chapman?