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NFT: Knicks at Miami tonight

Keith : 12/6/2016 12:18 pm
Knicks haven't been a great road team(or good for that matter), but they have been playing better as the season goes on. They need to learn how to win on the road and tonight should be a good test. It's a winnable game and they should be ready to go.

Toronto and Boston lost last night so the Knicks are only .5 games behind Boston and 2.5 behind Toronto. A win tonight and they are tied for 3rd in the conference.

Courtney Lee expected to play.
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Nice to see us beating teams we should be, and on the road.  
yatqb : 12/6/2016 9:46 pm : link
A much improved team.
FOUR IN A ROW!  
guitarguybs12 : 12/6/2016 9:46 pm : link
Great game! Hope Rose is ok...
Tied for 3rd in the East  
Keith : 12/6/2016 9:46 pm : link
2 games behind Toronto, 3 behind Cleveland. F this guaranteed loss crap, let's send a message tomorrow!
slow start and not pretty - but a road win is a road win!  
Del Shofner : 12/6/2016 9:47 pm : link
Melo eventually got hot after a cold start.

Have to see about Rose and his back spasms, though ...
9-3 in the last 12 games! HOTTEST TEAM IN THE EAST BOOOOOOM  
guitarguybs12 : 12/6/2016 9:50 pm : link
It's all starting to come together...
Jennings  
Earl the goat : 12/6/2016 9:50 pm : link
Going for that 4 year 70 million contract
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 12/6/2016 9:51 pm : link
fully Jennings fanboy. His shot isn't great but smart passes, tough, really digging him.
Also shout out to Ron Baker for his 38 seconds of playtime tonight!  
guitarguybs12 : 12/6/2016 9:53 pm : link
.
I dozed off at the half  
aimrocky : 12/6/2016 9:54 pm : link
And woke up to a 14 point lead. Very nice...
Carmelo +25 -  
Del Shofner : 12/6/2016 10:00 pm : link
not bad. He passed Bill Cartwright for #10 all time Knick scorer, Bill Bradley up next.
box score - ( New Window )
RE: Tied for 3rd in the East  
nygiants16 : 12/6/2016 10:08 pm : link
In comment 13252674 Keith said:
Quote:
2 games behind Toronto, 3 behind Cleveland. F this guaranteed loss crap, let's send a message tomorrow!


one thing about this team, they are not going to back down, it is not always pretty but this is definitely a gritty team
It's early, but Jennings seems to me to be a must re-sign.  
yatqb : 12/6/2016 10:11 pm : link
Excellent PG.
Somebody needs to tell KP to stop settling for 3's so much.  
Jim in Hoboken : 12/6/2016 10:43 pm : link
He's too content hovering around the line and jacking up 3's.
following up on Melo passing Cartwright -  
Del Shofner : 12/6/2016 10:55 pm : link
here are the Knicks all-time scoring leaders from basketball-reference.com, obviously not updated for Melo passing Cartwright tonight. Seems to me that, barring injury, Melo will pass everyone whose total has a 9 handle this year.

1. Patrick Ewing* 23665
2. Walt Frazier* 14617
3. Willis Reed* 12183
4. Allan Houston 11165
5. Carl Braun 10449
6. Richie Guerin* 10392
7. Earl Monroe* 9679
8. Dick Barnett 9442
9. Bill Bradley* 9217
10. Bill Cartwright 9006
RE: Somebody needs to tell KP to stop settling for 3's so much.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/7/2016 12:27 am : link
In comment 13252717 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
He's too content hovering around the line and jacking up 3's.


He's shooting 40% from three.

That shot is well within his game, wouldn't call it settling.
RE: I'm  
giantsfan44ab : 12/7/2016 2:11 am : link
In comment 13252680 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
fully Jennings fanboy. His shot isn't great but smart passes, tough, really digging him.


Knew he would turn people around once he came to NY. Liked him in Milwaukee, loved him in Detroit.

Reminds me of another player the Knicks could've gotten that I think people here would've came around on... (haha Keith, just messing, I will not mention his name...this time).
Funny how after I was griping about Melo early in the game  
mfsd : 12/7/2016 8:00 am : link
I think that turned out to be his best offensive game...not just bc he got hot and dropped 35 pts, but he was mostly catching and attacking the basket shooting quickly within the flow of the offense, rather than holding the ball for 10 seconds before jacking up an insane fall away
i would not be surprised if rose played tonight  
nygiants16 : 12/7/2016 8:24 am : link
but if he is still sore no reason to rush him to play...

he said last night it started in his right leg, he was sore and was fine until it radiated to his back...

said it calmed down and he felt better and if it is just his leg he is fine but if he is still sore tomorrow i woulf sit him..

he is not going to play half speed, so that could lead to something worse
Jennings is just a great example of guys  
Deej : 12/7/2016 8:29 am : link
being very valuable in appropriate roles. Jennings as the backup PG and what you see is his tough D, energy, passing, desire etc. Jennings as the starter and you start questioning whether you can win with a guard who cant shoot. Jennings as your 2nd best player and all you see if the flaws.

The problem is you cant pay a Jennings the Noah contract. You have to recognize that there are 200 guys in the NBA who can fill bench roles really effectively (many of them are starting, however). Dont pay them like starters. Just get new ones. I'd resign Jennings. I'd probably pay him 10 million. But not 18.
RE: Jennings is just a great example of guys  
Heisenberg : 12/7/2016 8:34 am : link
In comment 13252874 Deej said:
Quote:
being very valuable in appropriate roles. Jennings as the backup PG and what you see is his tough D, energy, passing, desire etc. Jennings as the starter and you start questioning whether you can win with a guard who cant shoot. Jennings as your 2nd best player and all you see if the flaws.

The problem is you cant pay a Jennings the Noah contract. You have to recognize that there are 200 guys in the NBA who can fill bench roles really effectively (many of them are starting, however). Dont pay them like starters. Just get new ones. I'd resign Jennings. I'd probably pay him 10 million. But not 18.


10 million will not get Jennings. Not even close. I get what you're saying that he's a better backup than starter but someone will definitely pay him more than 10 million.
If we want to keep Jennings  
Giantology : 12/7/2016 8:37 am : link
We will need to pay him more than $10 mil per season. And we need to keep him.
there's going to be  
Enzo : 12/7/2016 8:43 am : link
a lot of free agent point guards this summer - and less cap room than last summer. I wonder what the market will look like for the guys that end up switching teams.
RE: What's funny is that  
nygiants16 : 12/7/2016 8:50 am : link
In comment 13252551 Sgrcts said:
Quote:
When I don't post because you three morons complain incessantly no matter what I say, you guys still can't keep me out of your brain.

No, Rose is still pretty shitty on most advanced stats. In fact, ESPN just came out with an article wondering if Rose was the right PG for this team. Surprisingly, seems the answer is no. I didn't post it because you fanboys would take it too personally but fuck it here you go. Is Rose the right PG for the Knicks? - ( New Window )


people would not rip you if you had a shred of basketball knowledge and actually watched a game and analysed it and broke it down with your own thoughts..

stop using other peoples work to make your point, grow a set and actually make a point without stats based on your two eyes..

take last night for example his stats in the first half were nothing awesome, according to stats it was an average game but he made a ton of positive plays...

his attacking adds a dimension that this team has not had in a long time, when he attacks, even if he does not finish he is making a positive play..

last night he drovr and knew whiteside liked to try and block everything so he threw it up knowing the center would have a clear shot at a rebound. that is a positive play that does not show up..

whem he kicks it out and the guy misses a shot, it does not show up on the stat sheet, so accorsing to you it doesnt do anything but it is still a positive play and he made the right play..

stats do not tell the whole story and you cant comprehend that, you know when people will have respect for you? go back and watch a game, any gamr i dont care and actually watch it and you tell me how many bad plays and how many good plays he had
guys like deej and even enzo  
nygiants16 : 12/7/2016 8:53 am : link
hated the move, but they mlactually make a point of why they did not like it and what they want going forward..

i respect those two opinions hell of a lot more than yours and they did not like the rose trade...

so its not about you not liking rose..
RE: RE: What's funny is that  
dep026 : 12/7/2016 9:06 am : link
In comment 13252912 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13252551 Sgrcts said:


Quote:


When I don't post because you three morons complain incessantly no matter what I say, you guys still can't keep me out of your brain.

No, Rose is still pretty shitty on most advanced stats. In fact, ESPN just came out with an article wondering if Rose was the right PG for this team. Surprisingly, seems the answer is no. I didn't post it because you fanboys would take it too personally but fuck it here you go. Is Rose the right PG for the Knicks? - ( New Window )



people would not rip you if you had a shred of basketball knowledge and actually watched a game and analysed it and broke it down with your own thoughts..

stop using other peoples work to make your point, grow a set and actually make a point without stats based on your two eyes..

take last night for example his stats in the first half were nothing awesome, according to stats it was an average game but he made a ton of positive plays...

his attacking adds a dimension that this team has not had in a long time, when he attacks, even if he does not finish he is making a positive play..

last night he drovr and knew whiteside liked to try and block everything so he threw it up knowing the center would have a clear shot at a rebound. that is a positive play that does not show up..

whem he kicks it out and the guy misses a shot, it does not show up on the stat sheet, so accorsing to you it doesnt do anything but it is still a positive play and he made the right play..

stats do not tell the whole story and you cant comprehend that, you know when people will have respect for you? go back and watch a game, any gamr i dont care and actually watch it and you tell me how many bad plays and how many good plays he had


The best part of his advanced stats is that both offensive and defensive ratings are measured that all the players teammates are equally as good per minute at forcing negative plays by the offense. And offensive rating is based on role. The bigger your role in the offense is the lower your number it tends to be.

I guess its much more fun reading numbers than watching games.
This season would be so much better  
Jay on the Island : 12/7/2016 9:17 am : link
If the Knicks didn't sign Noah and started O'Quinn in the middle. Obviously with the benefit of hindsight the Knicks should have signed a backup center who can play 15-20 minutes a night to rotate with O'Quinn who is one of my favorite players on the team. Jennings was a fantastic signing as well.
RE: This season would be so much better  
nygiants16 : 12/7/2016 9:22 am : link
In comment 13252973 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
If the Knicks didn't sign Noah and started O'Quinn in the middle. Obviously with the benefit of hindsight the Knicks should have signed a backup center who can play 15-20 minutes a night to rotate with O'Quinn who is one of my favorite players on the team. Jennings was a fantastic signing as well.


if noah can give you 20 to 25 minutes a night like last night i would be very happy...

then you have a very good center rotation, remember on that mavs team chandler only played 20 to 25 minutes a night...

it will keep noah healthy and fresh and then Pl ayoffs roll around is not run into the ground
there was no indication that OQuinn would be playing this well.  
Heisenberg : 12/7/2016 9:40 am : link
he was not this good last season. It would have been an incredible leap of faith to entrust the starting center gig to him
Jennings  
Deej : 12/7/2016 9:49 am : link
Quote:
RE: Jennings is just a great example of guys
Heisenberg : 8:34 am : link : reply

10 million will not get Jennings. Not even close. I get what you're saying that he's a better backup than starter but someone will definitely pay him more than 10 million.

Maybe. We're paying him $5 million this year and he had no other bidders. Statistically, he's not any better this year than he has been in the past. He's a top tier backup PG.

Quote:
If we want to keep Jennings
Giantology : 8:37 am : link : reply
We will need to pay him more than $10 mil per season. And we need to keep him.


Why do we "need" to keep him? Next year we might sign another reclamation PG to a similar cheap deal. And in any event we're so far from being a contender that short term "needs" should not drive personnel decisions.

IMO, giving Jennings the Noah contract is a mistake. And I say that as someone who really likes him in his current role.
RE: RE: This season would be so much better  
Deej : 12/7/2016 9:53 am : link
In comment 13252983 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13252973 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


If the Knicks didn't sign Noah and started O'Quinn in the middle. Obviously with the benefit of hindsight the Knicks should have signed a backup center who can play 15-20 minutes a night to rotate with O'Quinn who is one of my favorite players on the team. Jennings was a fantastic signing as well.



if noah can give you 20 to 25 minutes a night like last night i would be very happy...

then you have a very good center rotation, remember on that mavs team chandler only played 20 to 25 minutes a night...

it will keep noah healthy and fresh and then Pl ayoffs roll around is not run into the ground


What are the chances you give of Noah performing like last night over the next 3 and 2/3 seasons? And what is that level of play? 5/6 shooting and like a 25 rebound per 36 minute pace? Obviously he cant keep up with that.

Also, not for nothing, Noah played less than 15 minutes last night because he got 4 fouls.
It's  
DanMetroMan : 12/7/2016 9:56 am : link
pretty clear KOQ has won over Hornacek, his role will only increase further if he continues this level of play.
RE: It's  
Deej : 12/7/2016 9:59 am : link
In comment 13253078 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
pretty clear KOQ has won over Hornacek, his role will only increase further if he continues this level of play.


I hope you're right. It takes a little time with KP. He 's got a 1990s NBA body. He fouls at lot and turns the ball over too much. So you can see why coaches bench him. But when he plays he's just good. The intangibles: Hustles, brings toughness. But also the tangible. Guy fills the hell out of a stat sheet.
I  
DanMetroMan : 12/7/2016 10:04 am : link
mean last 5 games he's averaging over 21 minutes per game, 8 and 8 with 1 block on 57%. He's not some stud future superstar but I think we seem to forget he was a small school guy, 2nd rounder and is still only 26. Being rough around the edges shouldn't be some massive shock. He is pretty clearly a legit NBA part of a rotation and as of right now is arguably Phil's best FA signing all things considered.
If Rose needs to sit out a few, think we bring up Randle?  
Heisenberg : 12/7/2016 10:05 am : link
I'd much rather that than deal with the Sasha Vujacic experience.
RE: RE: RE: This season would be so much better  
nygiants16 : 12/7/2016 10:12 am : link
In comment 13253069 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13252983 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13252973 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


If the Knicks didn't sign Noah and started O'Quinn in the middle. Obviously with the benefit of hindsight the Knicks should have signed a backup center who can play 15-20 minutes a night to rotate with O'Quinn who is one of my favorite players on the team. Jennings was a fantastic signing as well.



if noah can give you 20 to 25 minutes a night like last night i would be very happy...

then you have a very good center rotation, remember on that mavs team chandler only played 20 to 25 minutes a night...

it will keep noah healthy and fresh and then Pl ayoffs roll around is not run into the ground



What are the chances you give of Noah performing like last night over the next 3 and 2/3 seasons? And what is that level of play? 5/6 shooting and like a 25 rebound per 36 minute pace? Obviously he cant keep up with that.

Also, not for nothing, Noah played less than 15 minutes last night because he got 4 fouls.


i would be happy with 4 10 and 3 and playing with high energy in 20 to 25 minutes

lets be honest scoring wise anything the knicks get is gravy
RE: I  
Deej : 12/7/2016 10:12 am : link
In comment 13253106 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
mean last 5 games he's averaging over 21 minutes per game, 8 and 8 with 1 block on 57%. He's not some stud future superstar but I think we seem to forget he was a small school guy, 2nd rounder and is still only 26. Being rough around the edges shouldn't be some massive shock. He is pretty clearly a legit NBA part of a rotation and as of right now is arguably Phil's best FA signing all things considered.


I just think it's been clear since last season that he's a rotation player. His per 36 #s last year were 14.6 points, 11.8 rebounds, 3.4 assists. 2.3 blocks, .9 steals with good enough shooting and he hits FTs. Indeed, his points, rebounds, steals, and assists rates are DOWN this year. I find it baffling that he only got 764 minutes last year. Criminal even.

That said, the upticks in his blocks and shooting (and I think better defense) make him better this year. His PER, WS48, and BPM are all better.
RE: RE: RE: RE: This season would be so much better  
Deej : 12/7/2016 10:17 am : link
In comment 13253133 nygiants16 said:
Quote:


i would be happy with 4 10 and 3 and playing with high energy in 20 to 25 minutes

lets be honest scoring wise anything the knicks get is gravy


What you'd want from Noah doesnt answer the question of whether it is reasonable to expect it. Also, he's a career 11.5 rebounds/36 mins player. There is no reason to believe that 10 in 20-25 minutes is in the offing on the downside of his career.
RE: RE: I  
DanMetroMan : 12/7/2016 10:18 am : link
In comment 13253137 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13253106 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


mean last 5 games he's averaging over 21 minutes per game, 8 and 8 with 1 block on 57%. He's not some stud future superstar but I think we seem to forget he was a small school guy, 2nd rounder and is still only 26. Being rough around the edges shouldn't be some massive shock. He is pretty clearly a legit NBA part of a rotation and as of right now is arguably Phil's best FA signing all things considered.



I just think it's been clear since last season that he's a rotation player. His per 36 #s last year were 14.6 points, 11.8 rebounds, 3.4 assists. 2.3 blocks, .9 steals with good enough shooting and he hits FTs. Indeed, his points, rebounds, steals, and assists rates are DOWN this year. I find it baffling that he only got 764 minutes last year. Criminal even.

That said, the upticks in his blocks and shooting (and I think better defense) make him better this year. His PER, WS48, and BPM are all better.


Well not calling out anyone in particular but while there was a vocal group of people who felt he could be good (in better shape etc) there were a decent number of people open to dealing him for a 2nd rounder around draft time. He's solid, multi-skilled and compliments KP rather well. I could look stupid saying this but... I think KOQ outplays Noah over the next 3 seasons.
Whether he does or doesnt  
Deej : 12/7/2016 10:30 am : link
one has a good contract and one has a very risky contract.
The east continues to beat the hell  
giantsfan44ab : 12/7/2016 10:52 am : link
out of each other. Chicago is on a 3 game losing streak and Atlanta is on a 7 game losing streak. The Knicks are the only team in the east with a winning streak greater than 1. Set up fairly well, even if you mark tonight off as a loss.
Dwight  
Keith : 12/7/2016 10:59 am : link
Howard.
KOQ is playing so much better.  
Keith : 12/7/2016 10:59 am : link
So much stronger on the boards and on defense. If there is a loose ball, he's attacking it. He's even playing strong around the basket. Very happy with his progression.
BTW  
Deej : 12/7/2016 11:20 am : link
was talking to a bulls fan friend who was raving about Rolo after a rocky start (like last season).
RE: BTW  
dep026 : 12/7/2016 11:23 am : link
In comment 13253347 Deej said:
Quote:
was talking to a bulls fan friend who was raving about Rolo after a rocky start (like last season).


He's been better, but lets face it - he couldnt be much worse than the start he had. Not a fan of his. Hopefully, someone contender wants him and the Bulls can trade him.
RE: RE: BTW  
Deej : 12/7/2016 11:28 am : link
In comment 13253357 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13253347 Deej said:


Quote:


was talking to a bulls fan friend who was raving about Rolo after a rocky start (like last season).



He's been better, but lets face it - he couldnt be much worse than the start he had. Not a fan of his. Hopefully, someone contender wants him and the Bulls can trade him.


Bull's SB blog described his play in a recent game as "sensational per usual"
Link - ( New Window )
Robin Lopez will never be sensational.  
Keith : 12/7/2016 11:35 am : link
I think they were referring to his rebounding. He's about as average as you can be.
RE: Robin Lopez will never be sensational.  
giantsfan44ab : 12/7/2016 11:45 am : link
In comment 13253397 Keith said:
Quote:
I think they were referring to his rebounding. He's about as average as you can be.


The best quality about him is his consistency. He doesn't have any flaws really. He's a average rebounder (good at boxing out though), good rim protector and not an incapable scorer. He's a capable passer too. But he'll never really have any of those game breaking games that even a guy like KOQ is capable of.
I don't disagree.  
Keith : 12/7/2016 11:53 am : link
The one thing that I will say is that his mobility is weak. Doesn't have good lateral quickness and can't really run the floor well because he's not very athletic. Solid player who won't lose you games, but won't win you games. My definition of average.
Bottom line  
Carl in CT : 12/7/2016 1:14 pm : link
We are better than last year, Rose or no Rose. If we don't want to sign him he is gone. We can play with anyone with the exception of 2 teams. This year will be fun.
And PS  
Carl in CT : 12/7/2016 1:15 pm : link
Forget stats anyone can make an argument finding an obscure one. Use your eyes, they won't fail you.
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