Not really. Moncada is more highly regarded than either Frazier or Rutherford, but none of the secondary pieces are close to their level.
I don't know the ranking of Frazier or Rutherford, but Kopech is a wild card. He throws 100, but as I mentioned before he has a nuke laloosh head. He was suspended for PEDs (stimulant) and broke his hand in a fight with a teammate.
but his potential is very high I'd be glad he was included in the trade as a Red Sox hater.
Some have argued that Rutherford was the best bat in the entire draft. It's a crapshoot until they prove it at the highest level.
He's only 30 and has turned in some nice seasons even being overweight. I doubt he rebounds to anything near his 5.0 WAR peak, but something like 2-2.5 WAR (which the Sox would completely love) is more realistic than him completely flopping again in 2017 IMO.
Law said Rutherford would have had the best bat in this year's draft
between Giolito/Robles package (as reported) and a Moncada/Kopech, I think they made the wrong decision. Sox ponied up but I'm surprised it didn't take at least Moncada/Devers.
I have to think this means Washington wouldn't do Robles and Turner
Tough market out there for teams still trying to acquire SP. They'll end up giving up top prospects for mediocre SP.
Red Sox look untouchable in a declining division, Sale is a great addition. Glad he didn't go to the Nats.
That's what they said about the Red Sox when they got Price. Pitchers don't always perform as expected. Regardless, if you're going to hold a franchise for the long term, you can't merely make decisions for the moment. Dombrowski has never gotten that.
I think people just assume Sale is still the pitcher he was in 2014
Not really. Moncada is more highly regarded than either Frazier or Rutherford, but none of the secondary pieces are close to their level.
Oh I agree. Moncada , when you factor in his deal, was easily the best kid available unless the reports on Giolito were totally off-base. They basically fell in love with him and forgot about needing a second sure-thing piece.
If I remember correctly, the ratings at the end of the year had Moncada ranked as the top (or 2nd) rated player in the minors.
I still can't believe that is all it took to get a deal done for a very affordable Sale. It appears that Moncada will be a stud but there isn't a single sure thing kicked in to that deal. WS have been hurting for an OFer for a while and I would have thought Bradley or Benintendi would have been the second piece.
Sale isn't a sure thing but no starter is. You do need them to win though and this was a solid move by the R-Sox. I wonder if we will ever get word on the potential deal with the Nationals for Sale.
is Giolito's stock is a bit down from it's insane helium "by far the best minor league starter"{. Doesn't mean he won't be good. I would have given him up over Turner without a second thought.
the Yankees need to keep after right-handed hitting. With another solid LH starter in the division and the shifting against LH hitting, the signing of Holliday seems even more prudent.
don't know McCutchen from a hole in the wall but it's weird how suddenly he's been tarnished as having low energy, questionable "leadership" when previous seasons he was depicted as a golden boy type.
is Giolito's stock is a bit down from it's insane helium "by far the best minor league starter"{. Doesn't mean he won't be good. I would have given him up over Turner without a second thought.
don't know McCutchen from a hole in the wall but it's weird how suddenly he's been tarnished as having low energy, questionable "leadership" when previous seasons he was depicted as a golden boy type.
I've read up on his 2016 season and it seems he was banged up for most of it and played injured. I think there is a lot of posturing going on as the Pirates realize they need to shift and reload to compete with the Cubs, Mets and Nationals.
is Giolito's stock is a bit down from it's insane helium "by far the best minor league starter"{. Doesn't mean he won't be good. I would have given him up over Turner without a second thought.
Agree. Turner's bat in 2016 changed quite a bit. Amazing how well a trade can work out for one side. Turner AND Ross for who? - ( New Window )
Yeah that deal sure worked out for Washington. Turner has a bit of a Reyes/Ellsbury in their primes like effect. Hard to find guys like that.
don't know McCutchen from a hole in the wall but it's weird how suddenly he's been tarnished as having low energy, questionable "leadership" when previous seasons he was depicted as a golden boy type.
I've read up on his 2016 season and it seems he was banged up for most of it and played injured. I think there is a lot of posturing going on as the Pirates realize they need to shift and reload to compete with the Cubs, Mets and Nationals.
Yeah final 56 games his numbers were nearly identical to his 2015 where he was in the running for MVP. I don't know his personality/him at all just weird how a team is trying to dump him and now he's an off field concern. I actually think depending on the price someone has a shot to get a steal.
Dombrowski to come in and completely wipe out the Sox farm system and cash within a few seasons.
He probably looks at it as the "Bird in the Hand is worth two in the bush" scenario. In Sale he is getting a quality SP that has proved his worth in the bigs. The others are all highly touted prospects who may or may not be able to bring their game the bigs. Its not unusual in MLB for a "can't miss" prospect to never make it.
I still can't believe that is all it took to get a deal done for a very affordable Sale. It appears that Moncada will be a stud but there isn't a single sure thing kicked in to that deal. WS have been hurting for an OFer for a while and I would have thought Bradley or Benintendi would have been the second piece.
Sale isn't a sure thing but no starter is. You do need them to win though and this was a solid move by the R-Sox. I wonder if we will ever get word on the potential deal with the Nationals for Sale.
You need them to win for sure, but you also need sustained success. I had thought that the Red Sox (and Yankees for that matter) had moved beyond the 80's/90's philosophy of draining the systems for guys with names.
I still can't believe that is all it took to get a deal done for a very affordable Sale. It appears that Moncada will be a stud but there isn't a single sure thing kicked in to that deal. WS have been hurting for an OFer for a while and I would have thought Bradley or Benintendi would have been the second piece.
Sale isn't a sure thing but no starter is. You do need them to win though and this was a solid move by the R-Sox. I wonder if we will ever get word on the potential deal with the Nationals for Sale.
You need them to win for sure, but you also need sustained success. I had thought that the Red Sox (and Yankees for that matter) had moved beyond the 80's/90's philosophy of draining the systems for guys with names.
The Red Sox have youth/long-term contracts all over the diamond. Betts, JBJ, Benintendi, Bogaerts, E-rod, Swihart (the latter two have some proving to do and JBJ not exactly young at 26/27, but not old).
Still have Devers and Groome + in the minors.
and long-term Price (opt out not withstanding), Porcello, Sale, Kimbrel, Pedroia, Porcello, Hanley, etc.
why not "go for it"?
They added Sale and Thornburg to a 93-win team. Pending other moves this winter they have to be considered WS favorites.
Tough market out there for teams still trying to acquire SP. They'll end up giving up top prospects for mediocre SP.
Red Sox look untouchable in a declining division, Sale is a great addition. Glad he didn't go to the Nats.
`
If that's true I wonder what the ransom would be for Mets pitchers. Have to rotate the stock at some point as I doubt they're resigning all these guys and allowing them to walk would be a disaster. Time is on the Mets side but time does fly.
RE: they also lost their best bat by a good margin
I hate the Red Sox as much as most Yankees fans, so I would love to see this blow up, but I think Ortiz's loss while big can be overcome pretty easily.
their offense was #1 in baseball by a decent margin. Only the Rockies were close.
If Price doesn't suck this year they won't need as much offense anyway, not to even mention Sale.
Davis Dumb is not great at acquiring pitching,overpays, and they have been dumping prospects for a few years like it was a true GOOB sale.If they knew how to develop pitching, like Dodgers,Atlanta,StLouis, Yanks, it'd be different, but its like JRs project OLs and LBs.
I believe 1 of the 2 prospects will be a AAA and a AA pitcher, and the AA the better of the 2.
And that locker room will be a UCF ring if they crap by 7/4.
Well, they also had Hanley staying healthy and posting his best numbers in six years at age 32. Will he repeat that? I'm almost completely certain that Sandy Leon won't hit remotely like he did last year.
They'll be a good team. I think it's uncertain how good they'll be.
Well, they also had Hanley staying healthy and posting his best numbers in six years at age 32. Will he repeat that? I'm almost completely certain that Sandy Leon won't hit remotely like he did last year.
They'll be a good team. I think it's uncertain how good they'll be.
I hope they are a disaster, but unfortunately with the Red Sox and Patriots I have taken to reverse psychology, assume they'll win and hope they lose, this way I'm not disappointed. I even bet every year in Vegas on both to win their league championships. I've collected a few times.
This year I even bet the Patriots win total over (10.5).
It's actually a pretty good analogy and it might not even be an analogy. There's been rumors for a few years that Henry is losing interest in owning a baseball team, especially now that he's a soccer club owner. Dombrowski is old and won't see many more seasons, aside from the fact that his whole history is about destroying systems and not building them. I wonder if collectively they are all saying, "let's carpe diem and skedaddle our the door and who gives a fuck what we leave behind."
Davis Dumb is not great at acquiring pitching,overpays, and they have been dumping prospects for a few years like it was a true GOOB sale.If they knew how to develop pitching
Did a pretty good job getting Fullmer from the Mets
Davis Dumb is not great at acquiring pitching,overpays, and they have been dumping prospects for a few years like it was a true GOOB sale.If they knew how to develop pitching
Did a pretty good job getting Fullmer from the Mets
You have got to be kidding, right? They fucking got Cespedes!
I still can't believe that is all it took to get a deal done for a very affordable Sale. It appears that Moncada will be a stud but there isn't a single sure thing kicked in to that deal. WS have been hurting for an OFer for a while and I would have thought Bradley or Benintendi would have been the second piece.
Sale isn't a sure thing but no starter is. You do need them to win though and this was a solid move by the R-Sox. I wonder if we will ever get word on the potential deal with the Nationals for Sale.
You need them to win for sure, but you also need sustained success. I had thought that the Red Sox (and Yankees for that matter) had moved beyond the 80's/90's philosophy of draining the systems for guys with names.
The Red Sox have youth/long-term contracts all over the diamond. Betts, JBJ, Benintendi, Bogaerts, E-rod, Swihart (the latter two have some proving to do and JBJ not exactly young at 26/27, but not old).
Still have Devers and Groome + in the minors.
and long-term Price (opt out not withstanding), Porcello, Sale, Kimbrel, Pedroia, Porcello, Hanley, etc.
why not "go for it"?
They added Sale and Thornburg to a 93-win team. Pending other moves this winter they have to be considered WS favorites.
I'm really crying over this deal (not). Loss of Kopeck in particular is painful. Moncada really doesn't have a position if you expect the Panda to play 3B, so he's still an incredibly talented developmental prospect, but not as "ripe" as Benintendi.
Sale, Price, and Porcello looks like a pretty darn good top-three, but you never really know how any of these guys are going to work out. He could win the Cy Young and be the World Series MVP or he could blow out his elbow before the season ever starts. Let's see what happens.
the Red Sox are clearly a juggernaut, but a lot can happen between Spring Training and champagne popping. I assume that this will blow up in Boston's face not because I hate Boston, though I do, but because only Dombrowski could manage to parlay a Top 5 farm system in baseball and a dynamic young team into an October disappointment on an annual basis.
Going
Out
Of
Business.
You were close.
And I still adhere to 'they can't develop pitchers'. And Mgr Farrell, who was a mistake to keep IMHO, really could not get Price corrected last year, while it took Pedroia to figure out ERodwas tipping off his pitchers(when your mgr WAS a pitching coach).
And as someone said, Sale of 15/16 was not the Sale of 12/13. Plus they WILL miss DO, and the crowd getting the team pumped when he came to bat, especially in a clutch situation.
Can Panda even trot?
Quote:
In comment 13251952 RasputinPrime said:
Quote:
Frazier, Rutherford, Acevedo and Amburgey.
Not really. Moncada is more highly regarded than either Frazier or Rutherford, but none of the secondary pieces are close to their level.
I don't know the ranking of Frazier or Rutherford, but Kopech is a wild card. He throws 100, but as I mentioned before he has a nuke laloosh head. He was suspended for PEDs (stimulant) and broke his hand in a fight with a teammate.
but his potential is very high I'd be glad he was included in the trade as a Red Sox hater.
Some have argued that Rutherford was the best bat in the entire draft. It's a crapshoot until they prove it at the highest level.
He's only 30 and has turned in some nice seasons even being overweight. I doubt he rebounds to anything near his 5.0 WAR peak, but something like 2-2.5 WAR (which the Sox would completely love) is more realistic than him completely flopping again in 2017 IMO.
Being in SF, I saw him play quite a bit - he's never lost THAT much weight.
Who knows if he'll get back to his "prime" playing days, but maybe he was motivated by what happened last year to get his shit together.
Maybe.
But, you have to have SP to contend.
Tough market out there for teams still trying to acquire SP. They'll end up giving up top prospects for mediocre SP.
Red Sox look untouchable in a declining division, Sale is a great addition. Glad he didn't go to the Nats.
But, you have to have SP to contend.
Tough market out there for teams still trying to acquire SP. They'll end up giving up top prospects for mediocre SP.
Red Sox look untouchable in a declining division, Sale is a great addition. Glad he didn't go to the Nats.
Quote:
In comment 13251952 RasputinPrime said:
Quote:
Frazier, Rutherford, Acevedo and Amburgey.
Not really. Moncada is more highly regarded than either Frazier or Rutherford, but none of the secondary pieces are close to their level.
Oh I agree. Moncada , when you factor in his deal, was easily the best kid available unless the reports on Giolito were totally off-base. They basically fell in love with him and forgot about needing a second sure-thing piece.
I still can't believe that is all it took to get a deal done for a very affordable Sale. It appears that Moncada will be a stud but there isn't a single sure thing kicked in to that deal. WS have been hurting for an OFer for a while and I would have thought Bradley or Benintendi would have been the second piece.
Sale isn't a sure thing but no starter is. You do need them to win though and this was a solid move by the R-Sox. I wonder if we will ever get word on the potential deal with the Nationals for Sale.
Agree. Turner's bat in 2016 changed quite a bit. Amazing how well a trade can work out for one side.
Turner AND Ross for who? - ( New Window )
I've read up on his 2016 season and it seems he was banged up for most of it and played injured. I think there is a lot of posturing going on as the Pirates realize they need to shift and reload to compete with the Cubs, Mets and Nationals.
Quote:
is Giolito's stock is a bit down from it's insane helium "by far the best minor league starter"{. Doesn't mean he won't be good. I would have given him up over Turner without a second thought.
Agree. Turner's bat in 2016 changed quite a bit. Amazing how well a trade can work out for one side. Turner AND Ross for who? - ( New Window )
Yeah that deal sure worked out for Washington. Turner has a bit of a Reyes/Ellsbury in their primes like effect. Hard to find guys like that.
Quote:
don't know McCutchen from a hole in the wall but it's weird how suddenly he's been tarnished as having low energy, questionable "leadership" when previous seasons he was depicted as a golden boy type.
I've read up on his 2016 season and it seems he was banged up for most of it and played injured. I think there is a lot of posturing going on as the Pirates realize they need to shift and reload to compete with the Cubs, Mets and Nationals.
Yeah final 56 games his numbers were nearly identical to his 2015 where he was in the running for MVP. I don't know his personality/him at all just weird how a team is trying to dump him and now he's an off field concern. I actually think depending on the price someone has a shot to get a steal.
Me neither he is going to be a superstar. .342/.370/.567 batting line for a rookie is just incredible.
I still can't believe that is all it took to get a deal done for a very affordable Sale. It appears that Moncada will be a stud but there isn't a single sure thing kicked in to that deal. WS have been hurting for an OFer for a while and I would have thought Bradley or Benintendi would have been the second piece.
Sale isn't a sure thing but no starter is. You do need them to win though and this was a solid move by the R-Sox. I wonder if we will ever get word on the potential deal with the Nationals for Sale.
Quote:
more pieces to put together a move for cutch.
I still can't believe that is all it took to get a deal done for a very affordable Sale. It appears that Moncada will be a stud but there isn't a single sure thing kicked in to that deal. WS have been hurting for an OFer for a while and I would have thought Bradley or Benintendi would have been the second piece.
Sale isn't a sure thing but no starter is. You do need them to win though and this was a solid move by the R-Sox. I wonder if we will ever get word on the potential deal with the Nationals for Sale.
You need them to win for sure, but you also need sustained success. I had thought that the Red Sox (and Yankees for that matter) had moved beyond the 80's/90's philosophy of draining the systems for guys with names.
The Red Sox have youth/long-term contracts all over the diamond. Betts, JBJ, Benintendi, Bogaerts, E-rod, Swihart (the latter two have some proving to do and JBJ not exactly young at 26/27, but not old).
Still have Devers and Groome + in the minors.
and long-term Price (opt out not withstanding), Porcello, Sale, Kimbrel, Pedroia, Porcello, Hanley, etc.
why not "go for it"?
They added Sale and Thornburg to a 93-win team. Pending other moves this winter they have to be considered WS favorites.
But, you have to have SP to contend.
Tough market out there for teams still trying to acquire SP. They'll end up giving up top prospects for mediocre SP.
Red Sox look untouchable in a declining division, Sale is a great addition. Glad he didn't go to the Nats.
If that's true I wonder what the ransom would be for Mets pitchers. Have to rotate the stock at some point as I doubt they're resigning all these guys and allowing them to walk would be a disaster. Time is on the Mets side but time does fly.
I hate the Red Sox as much as most Yankees fans, so I would love to see this blow up, but I think Ortiz's loss while big can be overcome pretty easily.
their offense was #1 in baseball by a decent margin. Only the Rockies were close.
If Price doesn't suck this year they won't need as much offense anyway, not to even mention Sale.
I believe 1 of the 2 prospects will be a AAA and a AA pitcher, and the AA the better of the 2.
And that locker room will be a UCF ring if they crap by 7/4.
They'll be a good team. I think it's uncertain how good they'll be.
They'll be a good team. I think it's uncertain how good they'll be.
I hope they are a disaster, but unfortunately with the Red Sox and Patriots I have taken to reverse psychology, assume they'll win and hope they lose, this way I'm not disappointed. I even bet every year in Vegas on both to win their league championships. I've collected a few times.
This year I even bet the Patriots win total over (10.5).
I'll bite
Is a GOOB sale anything like a BOGO sale?
I'll bite
Is a GOOB sale anything like a BOGO sale?
This McCutchen talk screams of the Bucs prepping the fan base for the trade. Sad.
Did a pretty good job getting Fullmer from the Mets
Quote:
Davis Dumb is not great at acquiring pitching,overpays, and they have been dumping prospects for a few years like it was a true GOOB sale.If they knew how to develop pitching
Did a pretty good job getting Fullmer from the Mets
You have got to be kidding, right? They fucking got Cespedes!
You do that trade 100 out of 100 times.
Quote:
In comment 13252042 RasputinPrime said:
Quote:
more pieces to put together a move for cutch.
I still can't believe that is all it took to get a deal done for a very affordable Sale. It appears that Moncada will be a stud but there isn't a single sure thing kicked in to that deal. WS have been hurting for an OFer for a while and I would have thought Bradley or Benintendi would have been the second piece.
Sale isn't a sure thing but no starter is. You do need them to win though and this was a solid move by the R-Sox. I wonder if we will ever get word on the potential deal with the Nationals for Sale.
You need them to win for sure, but you also need sustained success. I had thought that the Red Sox (and Yankees for that matter) had moved beyond the 80's/90's philosophy of draining the systems for guys with names.
The Red Sox have youth/long-term contracts all over the diamond. Betts, JBJ, Benintendi, Bogaerts, E-rod, Swihart (the latter two have some proving to do and JBJ not exactly young at 26/27, but not old).
Still have Devers and Groome + in the minors.
and long-term Price (opt out not withstanding), Porcello, Sale, Kimbrel, Pedroia, Porcello, Hanley, etc.
why not "go for it"?
They added Sale and Thornburg to a 93-win team. Pending other moves this winter they have to be considered WS favorites.
Or..At the very least Win a Post Season Game!
Quote:
wouldn't have parted with Turner.
Me neither he is going to be a superstar. .342/.370/.567 batting line for a rookie is just incredible.
How about Gary .299/.376/.657 Sanchez ain't too shabby either.
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@martinonyc
Mets have talked to Royals, but it's hard to see a fit for Wade Davis in prospects and $.
Sale, Price, and Porcello looks like a pretty darn good top-three, but you never really know how any of these guys are going to work out. He could win the Cy Young and be the World Series MVP or he could blow out his elbow before the season ever starts. Let's see what happens.
Don't tell Andy Pettite, Bruce Hurst, Ron Guidry or Jon Lester that
They won as many post season games last year as the Rays.
Out
Of
Business.
You were close.
And I still adhere to 'they can't develop pitchers'. And Mgr Farrell, who was a mistake to keep IMHO, really could not get Price corrected last year, while it took Pedroia to figure out ERodwas tipping off his pitchers(when your mgr WAS a pitching coach).
And as someone said, Sale of 15/16 was not the Sale of 12/13. Plus they WILL miss DO, and the crowd getting the team pumped when he came to bat, especially in a clutch situation.
They won as many post season games last year as the Rays.
Must mean the Dallas Cowboys aren't good this year b/c they weren't last year too right? Way to make a point