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Scouting reports on Flowers coming out of college...

Milton : 12/6/2016 2:00 pm
With all the Flowers talk, I thought it would be interesting to revisit what was said about him during draft season. Early on he was looked upon as a late-first round pick by the consensus, but his stock rose as it got closer and closer to draft day (much like with Jack Conklin this past April).

Here are some snippets from Boylhart......
Quote:
He has all the physical attributes you look for in an offensive tackle for the next level. He has quick feet to go along with those long arms and legs and that will serve him well at the next level...Ereck has played on both sides of the offensive line and although he has done a solid job on the left side at the college level, he might be more suited to playing on the right side at the NFL level....His techniques are very poor and his physical stamina to play a full game without fading in the fourth quarter and committing penalties will be a big problem at the next level...given time and a better work ethic, Ereck could become a standout offensive lineman...The NFL is a 24/7, 365 job if you want to be successful...I don’t believe Ereck has that work ethic with what I see in his play on the field...His techniques are poor and while he has those quick feet that get him into the correct position to block, he has no technique to follow through and finish. He gets tired and when he gets tired, he gets mad and commits a bunch of penalties. His favorite pass blocking techniques when he gets tired is to take both his hands and clamp down on the outside shoulders of his opponent and hold him so that a pass rush move cannot be used against him. Ladies and gentlemen, that’s called holding at the NFL level...I don’t think he plays with enough pride to be a left tackle...Maybe Ereck, with a little help from a cattle prod, will become better than I have suggested but right now, I think there are other offensive linemen who will be better and I would let some other team “coach him up” first!

Feel free to add scouting reports from other draftniks.

Drew Boylhart's full profile - ( New Window )
So much for a better work ethic,  
Renton : 12/6/2016 2:03 pm : link
as his technique continues to be abysmal and he usually looks winded by the 2nd quarter.
It's frustrating  
Metnut : 12/6/2016 2:07 pm : link
because even if this guy finally becomes serviceable, his draft contract will likely be over or close to over by that point and he'll take up a full cap hit. Would have been better off signing an OL at the market rate and using the draft pick on a better player. (/captain hindsight mode)
from McGinn:  
Enzo : 12/6/2016 2:08 pm : link
Quote:
2. ERECK FLOWERS, Miami (6-6½, 326, 5.34, 1): Third-year junior who prepped in Miami. "Big, rugged, physical right tackle," said one scout. "Starts right away." Made four starts at RT in 2012 and 24 at LT in 2013-'14. "Violent, physical player," another scout said. "Fundamentally, he's got to clean some things up. He ducks his head. He tries to win with all upper body. He's got to learn to play with more patience." Led O-linemen in bench-press reps with 37. "Strictly a right tackle or guard," a third scout said. "He can't play left tackle because he isn't quick. He is powerful and he does have an anchor. He's stiff, so he has problems with adjust and recovery. He carries his hands low. He needs a lot of work with his hands. Big disappointment of the (top) group.
This is one scouting report that has  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 12/6/2016 2:11 pm : link
proven to be very accurate. And it lends credence to what Pat Kirwan has been saying all year.
He has proto type body  
eliapple : 12/6/2016 2:12 pm : link
needs technique. Maybe we have bad coaching.
You know Mara doesn't hire best.O'hara thinks Flowers
is bad.
When I was searching for his total games as LT,  
Diver_Down : 12/6/2016 2:12 pm : link
I came upon the Hurricanes site. It didn't state why, but the Ereck only started the beginning of the season at LT at which point he was moved. At some point in the season, he was injured and returned to play on the line. In the summary, it was definitive when he played OLT. But other instances, it only mentioned that he played on the offensive line. My question for those that watched Miami is what happened? Was there injuries to other parts of the line where he was needed? Or was just poor at LT and was supplanted as the starter and moved to another position on the line?
Ereck Flowers Hurricanes Bio - ( New Window )
I think he has also lost his quick feet. At least NFL quick feet.  
Blue21 : 12/6/2016 2:13 pm : link
That analysis is right on the money.
The Hurricanes bio is clear enough but I don't understand  
Ivan15 : 12/6/2016 2:42 pm : link
Diver Down's translation. Are we to believe he started a bunch of games at LT in 2014 but didn't finish any of them?

I'm not sure what this means!
Where have I seen this before?  
RobCarpenter : 12/6/2016 2:46 pm : link

Code:
His favorite pass blocking techniques when he gets tired is to take both his hands and clamp down on the outside shoulders of his opponent and hold him so that a pass rush move cannot be used against him. Ladies and gentlemen, that’s called holding at the NFL level
Overall  
jvm52106 : 12/6/2016 2:49 pm : link
he is exactly as was listed and feared when the draft rolled around. He has very poor technique and it shows up in verey game. The technique issue is such that smaller defenders can actually bulrush him some because the rush in quickly and his feet are not in a good position and his hands are always low or if up in a grabbing position. I have little faith in his ability to change or get better.

Jumbo Elliott was a guy slated to play RT in the NFL. Nobody considered him a LT. He struggled in his first start against Too Tall Jones (but what rookie wouldn't) at RT. Later in the season he was moved to LT and the rest history. The difference with Elliott's scouting report and Flowers is that nobody questioned Elliots drive, technique or willingness to work. It was all athleticism for the LT position that was questioned. BUT, as we all have seen and know, technique and hunger, drive and determination can make up for an or neutralize athleticism if that is all the other person has. Flowers is athletic for a big dude but seems lazy, and just is a mess with the nuances of playing the position.

I didn't like the pick when it was made and I like it less now. He is getting worse not better.
The thing that gets me about him is,  
Doomster : 12/6/2016 2:56 pm : link
for his size, he is not physical....

Right from the snap of the ball, he is back pedaling....

I never see him attack a pass rusher and stop him, dead in his tracks.....it's no wonder speed rushers, with moves, get by him and then he has to grab on......
Now that Flaherty is gone  
ghost718 : 12/6/2016 3:01 pm : link
Jerry is gonna be making up names like Hans Gruber.

"It's all Bill Clay's fault"
RE: The Hurricanes bio is clear enough but I don't understand  
Diver_Down : 12/6/2016 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13252065 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Diver Down's translation. Are we to believe he started a bunch of games at LT in 2014 but didn't finish any of them?

I'm not sure what this means!


I don't know how you interpret what I wrote above as such. But from the bio:
Quote:
.Started sixth straight game of season (19th overall) at left tackle against Georgia Tech...Started at left tackle against Cincinnati, helping offense finish with 621 total yards...Helped guide offense to 456-yard performance in road win over Virginia Tech...Returned to field and helped llead offense to 492-yard performance against Florida State...Made 10th start of season on offensive line against Virginia...Started season finale on offensive line, leading team offense to 421 total yards...Made final start of career in Duck Commander Independence Bowl against South Carolina, helping lead offense to 422 total yards.


I interpret that after the Cinci start at OLT, it isn't clear what role he played Virginia Tech. At which point, he was injured. The next week he returned to the field against Florida State (what position?). Started on offensive line against Virginia (not LT?). Started season finale on offensive line (not LT?). Started in Duck Commander Independence Bowl (not LT?).

Perhaps it is just a sloppy bio, but it emphasizes the start at LT where applicable. But the final starts, he only played on the offensive line. Had their coach opted to move him? Was it because of injury at other positions that forced a move? Or was it that another player beat him out of the position at LT?
His  
AcidTest : 12/6/2016 3:18 pm : link
technique might still need refinement, but it shouldn't be this bad in his second year. The scouting reports were extremely accurate. He also pushed Raanan when he was frustrated after a game with questions about his performance. His best position is probably at RG, maybe RT, although Hart seems to be adjusting well.
RE: The thing that gets me about him is,  
ryanmkeane : 12/6/2016 3:31 pm : link
In comment 13252097 Doomster said:
Quote:
for his size, he is not physical....

Right from the snap of the ball, he is back pedaling....

I never see him attack a pass rusher and stop him, dead in his tracks.....it's no wonder speed rushers, with moves, get by him and then he has to grab on......

Doomster, man, you are just full of shit. He put Carlos Dunlap to sleep the entire game against Cincy. Were you watching that game? Or does it not fit your narrative because it actually happened?
Flowers  
ryanmkeane : 12/6/2016 3:32 pm : link
is extremely physical. Watch the tape. His technique is what is sloppy and inconsistent right now.
This  
Bluesbreaker : 12/6/2016 4:15 pm : link
from McGinn:
Enzo : 2:08 pm : link : reply
Quote:
2. ERECK FLOWERS, Miami (6-6½, 326, 5.34, 1): Third-year junior who prepped in Miami. "Big, rugged, physical right tackle," said one scout. "Starts right away." Made four starts at RT in 2012 and 24 at LT in 2013-'14. "Violent, physical player," another scout said. "Fundamentally, he's got to clean some things up. He ducks his head. He tries to win with all upper body. He's got to learn to play with more patience." Led O-linemen in bench-press reps with 37. "Strictly a right tackle or guard," a third scout said. "He can't play left tackle because he isn't quick. He is powerful and he does have an anchor. He's stiff, so he has problems with adjust and recovery. He carries his hands low. He needs a lot of work with his hands. Big disappointment of the (top) group.

Now in his 2nd season this is exactly what he is and is exactly what he does . Problem is none of that has changed
but obviously someone doesn't want to be proven wrong .
He played well vs Dunlap  
allstarjim : 12/6/2016 4:23 pm : link
And at other times this year. But he has committed a lot of penalties and they have hurt the offense. I think he could be a great RT.
He had  
Les in TO : 12/6/2016 8:21 pm : link
A bad game. He's had some games where we didn't hear his name called much. He is not the second coming of Walter Jones Orlandi Pace or Joe Thomas but I'm not willing to give up on him at this stage.
Ross does too much reading of others reports  
NYRiese : 12/6/2016 9:05 pm : link
Instead of observing for himself. I really wish he moved on.
RE: Ross does too much reading of others reports  
David in LA : 12/6/2016 9:26 pm : link
In comment 13252596 NYRiese said:
Quote:
Instead of observing for himself. I really wish he moved on.


Unless you're there in the war room, how on Earth would you know this?
RE: RE: Ross does too much reading of others reports  
drkenneth : 12/6/2016 9:34 pm : link
In comment 13252632 David in LA said:
Quote:
In comment 13252596 NYRiese said:


Quote:


Instead of observing for himself. I really wish he moved on.



Unless you're there in the war room, how on Earth would you know this?


The "Marc Ross is an issue" crew on BBI is fascinating one. This is a guy who's appeared on camera on "Finding Giants" and people here act like they have a fucking clue and comment on his job performance.

Now- I'm not saying saying he's great at what he does. I'm simply saying nobody here has any real evidence to support their posts.

It's silly.
Lots of BS Here  
Samiam : 12/6/2016 10:35 pm : link
If college athletes enter the NFL with great or even good technique, why would teams need all these position coaches? All of these guys need to be coached on technique. If his college OL was so good, he'd be working in
the NFL. I also don't buy the statement that he doesn't work hard enough or his work ethic is questionable. He has an edge and seems like one of the tougher guys. The Giants did not want him to start at LT last year but when Beatty got hurt, they felt they had to. He's a work in process and has a ways to jo but playing next to Pugh consistently should help. I also think he gets called for holding doing the same thing that oppositional LTs don't get called for . It looked like the guy blocking Vernon was doing the same things Flowers was doing all game but not getting called
Bottom Line  
Marty866b : 12/6/2016 11:30 pm : link
He doesn't play like an offensive lineman who is a top 10 pick. He has been the weakest link on a weak line. Leads the league in penalties and constantly gives up pressure. He has the feet to be a right guard and I am not convinced he would be anything special there. Jerry Reese does not have a good eye for offensive lineman and the proof is on the field.
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