lose JPP so we can't win the game? Against a team we've already beat, and at their place? Even if we lost Eli, I'd still watch and hope.
It's "DE by committee." Swing Hankins out to DE on some run plays. Use Wynn on the others, hopefully against Free. Okwara, Kennard, and maybe OO on passing downs.
that the only way the Giants win, is the offense has to come out of it's offensive shell and score.....we are not going to stop Dallas with this defense.....we have to outscore them.....and that is going to mean, more than 30 points...something we haven't been able to do all season....
The offense has to win this game....the defense has been carrying this team.....unless Dallas screws up with turnovers and penalties, this offense is going to have to have it's game of the year......unfortunately, I don't think it will happen....
Fats, while true that it only took 20 to win in week 1, I would say that this Dallas team is much better thane in week 1 offensively. Prescott and Elliot were making thei debuts, they now have 12 weeks under their belts and have been very consisten.
On the other side, the Giants D is better now than in week 1 as a unit, though they will certainly miss JPPs presence.
So we've lost..
FatMan in Charlotte : 10:25 am : link : reply
already on Sunday?
This is not brain surgery....the possibilities are we win, or we lose.....before JPP got hurt, I thought we would lose this game.....I think Dallas wants to avenge that first loss.....I didn't think we could stop Elliot before JPP got hurt...I think Dak will stand back there like a statue and pick apart our linebackers and safeties......if the Giant offense plays like it has all season, yes they have already lost.....
But I am shocked by the point spread.....does Vegas know something we don't? Are they trying to get a lot of Dallas money on Dallas?
For us to win, this defense would have to create turnovers, by great individual play.....and the offense will have to play lights out....
So can the Giants win? On any given Sunday.....Realistically, no.....
Mac should use the video of Dak and Zeke drinking champagne
at nightclub...like they are SB champs to motivate team.
Open up Offense. Forget forcing run. Feed it to Lewis deep.
and the team, but I'm OK with it.
Lets just get him healthy. If he tried to play thru it, and as a non-medical person, I can only fear what MAY have happened might even be worse. He's gonna get his $$$ from the Giants anyway, based on his performance, and even if he went 'Von Miller' the end of the season+ the $$$ would not be a huge difference.
The Dallas D may suck but our TOP sucks more, so unless our O goes off, and itd be nicely overdue, this was going to be a big challenge anyway(and knowing Dallas they would target JPPs groin anyway[think Tucks shoulder]) screwing us up for the remainder of the season.
Given this past w/e in the NFLE, this is almost another throwaway game. We can beat a good Detroit team, and Philly and Wash are floundering or going the wrong way. Knocking off Detroit would put us up on them by 2 w/2 games left, then Beat Philly the next week and Wash would have to win out the next 3 games; Minn would also have to win out by that scenario.
Let's stay healthy and win the final 3.
Is Eli. I think I would have rather lost Eli than JPP this season.
You want to see Nasib? Why do you think they brought in another QB after PreSeason?
Without Eli we are done. JPP we can scheme around now if Vernon gets hurt that might be the Tombstone for us. Not just Vernon but to lose both JPP an Vernon would be too much to overcome.
But I choose to focus on what jcn and Marvelous Mike pointed out.
It will complicate negotiations with JPP's agent, but in the end it will mean a contract more favorable to the Giants. The risk is that it complicates things to the point of losing JPP to a team more willing to shell out guaranteed money.
I think we already know what we have in Wynn (a career-backup), but it will give Okwara and Owa Odi a chance to show their stuff. Assuming Odi can stay of the field (but even that is useful information to be gleaned).
So while the loss of JPP diminishes our chances at a Super Bowl title this season, it may prove helpful in putting together next season's Super Bowl team. All those who thought we had no chance this year anyway (with or without JPP) should view this in a positive light.
sheloves is not the first to suggest a 3-4
caveat- I didn't read the whole thread
but a day or two ago, a very well respected football minded poster came out front and center that this is the way to go. perhaps that's where she got the idea?
my own take is that while I don't know what front to run, I do think that we have Vernon and then a whole lot of nothing for the other end.
I'd guess that thread (I didn't see it) would reference using 3-4 looks more often. We've been actually doing that already quite a bit.
The difference here is the idea that we should go to the 3-4 as a base defense as if it is as easy as flipping a switch and doing it.
It pretty much takes more than half the defensive playbook away.
The Giants do have personnel that already has experience in a 3-4 defense or are scheme diverse but they would still need to bring in several players that are better fits. People tend to simplify the difference between the scheme's.
And - this definitely hurts that unit, but, we need to score more to win... regardless of JPP's injury. The chances of the Giants winning the last 4 games scoring <20 ppg are very low, even if JPP would have played.
How about the offense take a turn and cover for the defense like the defense has been covering for the offense all season?
I'd guess that thread (I didn't see it) would reference using 3-4 looks more often. We've been actually doing that already quite a bit.
The difference here is the idea that we should go to the 3-4 as a base defense as if it is as easy as flipping a switch and doing it.
It pretty much takes more than half the defensive playbook away.
you know there are many different 3-4 combinations and hybrids. that's what I was talking about. Getting the most out of the players we have left.
So how would you hide the huge hole we now have at DE?
And you can run this formation out of this Defense the Giants play can run it and bet its been looked at.. A varient yes but its still a 3-4 scheme.
This would be the best use of the defensive 7 and get Vernon one on one with the LT.
shouldn't be a variant at all. Use Wynn/Okawra/Hankins to rotate at the DE spot to replace JPP.
It maintains continuity on the line, keeps the D intact in a scheme that has played very well this year, and you don't have to change the playbook extensively.
Losing JPP isn't ideal, but to react to his loss by going to formations that will then bring another LB on the field, doesn't seem to strengthen the team - it would seem to weaken it.
The backup DE's aren't JPP, but they aren't terrible either - and the defense hasn't just been JPP.
No need to overreact and change things that are working OK, especially when we are relying on that unit to keep us in games right now.
I actually worry more about stopping the run without JPP than rushing the passer... that is if Spags finally lets the dogs loose and trusts his corners. However, that's only a solution in certain passing downs or with certain personnel on the field. The Giants will certainly miss JPP, but everyone has injuries and we just need to compensate the best way we can.
I hate to be selfish, but I hope this injury makes him easier to re-sign.
has shined in his time here on the field more than Bromley or any of OO Wynn and Romeo. continuity is important
but don't you want your best players on the field first?
Having Hankins at DE is a putting a guy out there who is not a pass rush specialist against a RT is a mismatch.also losing his play in the middle where he excels. I know we have shown it but that's not how you replace a missing piece. As fans we just want the best for the team
its really all just spitballing as Spags gets paid to get the most out of these guys.
I just hope we have enough to win two more games.
is if the offense gets its collective head out of its *ss and matches Dallas essentially score for score AND Spags comes up with a monster game plan to confuse & attack Prescott.
Otherwise, it will be a long evening on national TV.
RE: Normally the 1 player we can't afford to have injured
has shined in his time here on the field more than Bromley or any of OO Wynn and Romeo. continuity is important
but don't you want your best players on the field first?
Having Hankins at DE is a putting a guy out there who is not a pass rush specialist against a RT is a mismatch.also losing his play in the middle where he excels. I know we have shown it but that's not how you replace a missing piece. As fans we just want the best for the team
its really all just spitballing as Spags gets paid to get the most out of these guys.
I just hope we have enough to win two more games.
has shined in his time here on the field more than Bromley or any of OO Wynn and Romeo. continuity is important
but don't you want your best players on the field first?
Having Hankins at DE is a putting a guy out there who is not a pass rush specialist against a RT is a mismatch.also losing his play in the middle where he excels. I know we have shown it but that's not how you replace a missing piece. As fans we just want the best for the team
its really all just spitballing as Spags gets paid to get the most out of these guys.
I just hope we have enough to win two more games.
The stupidity that were gonna switch the entire defense
because we lost one starter on the team ...
Its a big blow for sure I feel bad for JPP he was having
a terrific season . Biggest question is who starts in his
place . My guess is Wynn and he will rotate with Okwara
and eventually Odi when he gets healthy .
We don't even have the linebackers to even try it .
We can win without JPP by just getting solid play but the
offense is gonna have to pick it up a whole lot . I think
getting back Vereen and of course Pugh will help .
The problem is the defense has been on the field far too
long and its wearing down . Steelers took it to us and
used the same plan we have seen all year the difference is
the step up in competition . Quality teams the rest of
the way .
shouldn't be a variant at all. Use Wynn/Okawra/Hankins to rotate at the DE spot to replace JPP.
It maintains continuity on the line, keeps the D intact in a scheme that has played very well this year, and you don't have to change the playbook extensively.
Losing JPP isn't ideal, but to react to his loss by going to formations that will then bring another LB on the field, doesn't seem to strengthen the team - it would seem to weaken it.
The backup DE's aren't JPP, but they aren't terrible either - and the defense hasn't just been JPP.
No need to overreact and change things that are working OK, especially when we are relying on that unit to keep us in games right now.
I agree. Plus, the way Vernon is playing now, he will provide decent pressure and draw double teams, which may take some pressure off the rest of the DL. The primary focus for whomeve is filling in for JPP should be CONTAIN. they need to set the edge first to stop the run and/or keep the QB in the pocket.
RE: Normally the 1 player we can't afford to have injured
of shit posted on game threads and any EliteMobster post, how is suggesting that losing Eli would be a worse injury a dumb comment?
Who'd would you rather have to depend on - a backup DE or Nassib?
You must be kidding. Eli does so much for this team that goes undetected. Like his ability to make the line look decent when they are horrific. Seriously, your kidding right?
That why defenses are referred to as being "base" or not.
You idiotically suggested we move to a 3-4 defense. And you keep doubling down with each post acting as if it is a good idea.
Just stop it.
It's "DE by committee." Swing Hankins out to DE on some run plays. Use Wynn on the others, hopefully against Free. Okwara, Kennard, and maybe OO on passing downs.
Let's go.
The offense has to win this game....the defense has been carrying this team.....unless Dallas screws up with turnovers and penalties, this offense is going to have to have it's game of the year......unfortunately, I don't think it will happen....
We scored 20 points last time and beat the Cowboys, and the most points they've scored this year is 35.
Are we assuming that not having JPP means they are just going to roll points up on the road?
Or is this just more reactive bullshit?
Fats, while true that it only took 20 to win in week 1, I would say that this Dallas team is much better thane in week 1 offensively. Prescott and Elliot were making thei debuts, they now have 12 weeks under their belts and have been very consisten.
On the other side, the Giants D is better now than in week 1 as a unit, though they will certainly miss JPPs presence.
Why not just forfeit and save our health and energy for Detroit?
You guys really suck hard.
Let's not even show up on Sunday? I think that's a good idea.
You know how many points I want to score? At least 1 more than the Cowboys. Whether that number is 11, 21 or 31 doesn't matter to me.
FatMan in Charlotte : 10:25 am : link : reply
already on Sunday?
This is not brain surgery....the possibilities are we win, or we lose.....before JPP got hurt, I thought we would lose this game.....I think Dallas wants to avenge that first loss.....I didn't think we could stop Elliot before JPP got hurt...I think Dak will stand back there like a statue and pick apart our linebackers and safeties......if the Giant offense plays like it has all season, yes they have already lost.....
But I am shocked by the point spread.....does Vegas know something we don't? Are they trying to get a lot of Dallas money on Dallas?
For us to win, this defense would have to create turnovers, by great individual play.....and the offense will have to play lights out....
So can the Giants win? On any given Sunday.....Realistically, no.....
You know how many points I want to score? At least 1 more than the Cowboys. Whether that number is 11, 21 or 31 doesn't matter to me.
same here. beats staying up for a shitty performance AND a loss! :-)
Giants: 3
Cowboys: 2.
It's like a BPL game.
I'd rather win 4-3...
let them play all night for all I care I have DVR.
I wonder who quits firsts the players or Refs? My money is on the Refs..
at nightclub...like they are SB champs to motivate team.
Open up Offense. Forget forcing run. Feed it to Lewis deep.
Quote:
3-4
Hankins Snacks Roberts or Bromley
Vernon(rush backer) Castilas Robinson Kennard
DRC Collins Adams JJ
lol - yeah ok.
2012, serious question ...are you a fucking idiot? thanks
Quote:
In comment 13252919 shelovesnycsports said:
Quote:
3-4
Hankins Snacks Roberts or Bromley
Vernon(rush backer) Castilas Robinson Kennard
DRC Collins Adams JJ
lol - yeah ok.
2012, serious question ...am I a fucking idiot? thanks
Lets just get him healthy. If he tried to play thru it, and as a non-medical person, I can only fear what MAY have happened might even be worse. He's gonna get his $$$ from the Giants anyway, based on his performance, and even if he went 'Von Miller' the end of the season+ the $$$ would not be a huge difference.
The Dallas D may suck but our TOP sucks more, so unless our O goes off, and itd be nicely overdue, this was going to be a big challenge anyway(and knowing Dallas they would target JPPs groin anyway[think Tucks shoulder]) screwing us up for the remainder of the season.
Given this past w/e in the NFLE, this is almost another throwaway game. We can beat a good Detroit team, and Philly and Wash are floundering or going the wrong way. Knocking off Detroit would put us up on them by 2 w/2 games left, then Beat Philly the next week and Wash would have to win out the next 3 games; Minn would also have to win out by that scenario.
Let's stay healthy and win the final 3.
You want to see Nasib? Why do you think they brought in another QB after PreSeason?
Without Eli we are done. JPP we can scheme around now if Vernon gets hurt that might be the Tombstone for us. Not just Vernon but to lose both JPP an Vernon would be too much to overcome.
Quote:
In comment 13252919 shelovesnycsports said:
Quote:
3-4
Hankins Snacks Roberts or Bromley
Vernon(rush backer) Castilas Robinson Kennard
DRC Collins Adams JJ
lol - yeah ok.
2012, serious question ...are you a fucking idiot? thanks
Seek help
What? That's just crazy talk and I'm a big JPP fan.
We can sub and scheme for the loss of JPP but there's no solution to losing Eli. Losing JPP is huge but losing Eli would be catastrophic.
It will complicate negotiations with JPP's agent, but in the end it will mean a contract more favorable to the Giants. The risk is that it complicates things to the point of losing JPP to a team more willing to shell out guaranteed money.
I think we already know what we have in Wynn (a career-backup), but it will give Okwara and Owa Odi a chance to show their stuff. Assuming Odi can stay of the field (but even that is useful information to be gleaned).
So while the loss of JPP diminishes our chances at a Super Bowl title this season, it may prove helpful in putting together next season's Super Bowl team. All those who thought we had no chance this year anyway (with or without JPP) should view this in a positive light.
LOL. That's perfect!
Collins knocks Prescott out of the game early in the 1st quarter with a clean, blindside blitz.
A rusty Romo returns; throws 4 picks.
Beckham lights up Dallas secondary for 3 TDs.
caveat- I didn't read the whole thread
but a day or two ago, a very well respected football minded poster came out front and center that this is the way to go. perhaps that's where she got the idea?
my own take is that while I don't know what front to run, I do think that we have Vernon and then a whole lot of nothing for the other end.
The difference here is the idea that we should go to the 3-4 as a base defense as if it is as easy as flipping a switch and doing it.
It pretty much takes more than half the defensive playbook away.
The difference here is the idea that we should go to the 3-4 as a base defense as if it is as easy as flipping a switch and doing it.
It pretty much takes more than half the defensive playbook away.
The Giants do have personnel that already has experience in a 3-4 defense or are scheme diverse but they would still need to bring in several players that are better fits. People tend to simplify the difference between the scheme's.
How about the offense take a turn and cover for the defense like the defense has been covering for the offense all season?
The difference here is the idea that we should go to the 3-4 as a base defense as if it is as easy as flipping a switch and doing it.
It pretty much takes more than half the defensive playbook away.
you know there are many different 3-4 combinations and hybrids. that's what I was talking about. Getting the most out of the players we have left.
So how would you hide the huge hole we now have at DE?
And you can run this formation out of this Defense the Giants play can run it and bet its been looked at.. A varient yes but its still a 3-4 scheme.
This would be the best use of the defensive 7 and get Vernon one on one with the LT.
It maintains continuity on the line, keeps the D intact in a scheme that has played very well this year, and you don't have to change the playbook extensively.
Losing JPP isn't ideal, but to react to his loss by going to formations that will then bring another LB on the field, doesn't seem to strengthen the team - it would seem to weaken it.
The backup DE's aren't JPP, but they aren't terrible either - and the defense hasn't just been JPP.
No need to overreact and change things that are working OK, especially when we are relying on that unit to keep us in games right now.
I hate to be selfish, but I hope this injury makes him easier to re-sign.
If you are already putting a loss in the books versus Dallas, you haven't watched the NFL very long.
Wouldn't you expect most likely a close game? That means the Giants are in it and could easily win, esp being at home.
but don't you want your best players on the field first?
Having Hankins at DE is a putting a guy out there who is not a pass rush specialist against a RT is a mismatch.also losing his play in the middle where he excels. I know we have shown it but that's not how you replace a missing piece. As fans we just want the best for the team
its really all just spitballing as Spags gets paid to get the most out of these guys.
I just hope we have enough to win two more games.
Otherwise, it will be a long evening on national TV.
Also.....seek help.
but don't you want your best players on the field first?
Having Hankins at DE is a putting a guy out there who is not a pass rush specialist against a RT is a mismatch.also losing his play in the middle where he excels. I know we have shown it but that's not how you replace a missing piece. As fans we just want the best for the team
its really all just spitballing as Spags gets paid to get the most out of these guys.
I just hope we have enough to win two more games.
Previous handle?
Quote:
has shined in his time here on the field more than Bromley or any of OO Wynn and Romeo. continuity is important
but don't you want your best players on the field first?
Having Hankins at DE is a putting a guy out there who is not a pass rush specialist against a RT is a mismatch.also losing his play in the middle where he excels. I know we have shown it but that's not how you replace a missing piece. As fans we just want the best for the team
its really all just spitballing as Spags gets paid to get the most out of these guys.
I just hope we have enough to win two more games.
Previous handle?
Cheeky Dom one
because we lost one starter on the team ...
Its a big blow for sure I feel bad for JPP he was having
a terrific season . Biggest question is who starts in his
place . My guess is Wynn and he will rotate with Okwara
and eventually Odi when he gets healthy .
We don't even have the linebackers to even try it .
We can win without JPP by just getting solid play but the
offense is gonna have to pick it up a whole lot . I think
getting back Vereen and of course Pugh will help .
The problem is the defense has been on the field far too
long and its wearing down . Steelers took it to us and
used the same plan we have seen all year the difference is
the step up in competition . Quality teams the rest of
the way .
It maintains continuity on the line, keeps the D intact in a scheme that has played very well this year, and you don't have to change the playbook extensively.
Losing JPP isn't ideal, but to react to his loss by going to formations that will then bring another LB on the field, doesn't seem to strengthen the team - it would seem to weaken it.
The backup DE's aren't JPP, but they aren't terrible either - and the defense hasn't just been JPP.
No need to overreact and change things that are working OK, especially when we are relying on that unit to keep us in games right now.
And the award for dumbest post of the year goes to...JD in NC. Congrats!
That sucks
Dude. That is a really sad picture.
Who'd would you rather have to depend on - a backup DE or Nassib?
Who'd would you rather have to depend on - a backup DE or Nassib?
You must be kidding. Eli does so much for this team that goes undetected. Like his ability to make the line look decent when they are horrific. Seriously, your kidding right?
Did someone say the opposite? And that is what you are referring to?