NFT: Hot Stove Thread 12/7 (Yankee-flavored)

Sox could get a massive haul for Quintana, near Sale level results, much cheaper contract

gotten Sale as well. I guess White Sox loves Moncada more.

But Eaton? Really? What the hell is going on? The Yanks should eat half of Gardner's contract and see what they can get in return.

because that is an insane haul for Adam Eaton.

for Eaton, I'd be incredulous and inconsolable. And that package doesn't compare to what the Nats actually gave up!!

thanks Nats. Confused bastads.....

Sandy swoop in and sweep the leg.

I want McCutcheon on the Mets so bad...after that Nats move if I'm Sandy I go hard as a mofo after the dude. Make shit happen.

Bruce has to get a better haul than a reliever. I have to assume that bargain contract for a productive power hitter on its final year gets some pretty damn solid return if Eaton just got the Nats entire system. Or else keep him. Screw that shit.

Nats aren't getting McCutchen after all.

for the White Sox...but Eaton is a very good player. Nats must be just going all in before they lose Harper.

In comment 13254097 SethFromAstoria said:

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thanks Nats. Confused bastads..... Sandy swoop in and sweep the leg. I want McCutcheon on the Mets so bad...after that Nats move if I'm Sandy I go hard as a mofo after the dude. Make shit happen. Bruce has to get a better haul than a reliever. I have to assume that bargain contract for a productive power hitter on its final year gets some pretty damn solid return if Eaton just got the Nats entire system. Or else keep him. Screw that shit.

I sure hope Bruce gets us some decent prospects. Because he is going to rake back home in Texas. A reliever is not going to cut it. We can easily keep Lugo as a reliever instead of our no 7 starter.

check it....

Bryce HarperVerified account


‏@Bharper3407
Wow...

Kopech was #30 prospect...unreal. Red Sox basically need to win the WS in the next 2 years for that trade to be a success.

yet to hear one positive take on the trade. Radio pundits, as well as my friends who follow the Nats to the degree some here the Yanks (including myself) alike. I would be doing backflips if the Yanks somehow got that haul for Gardner. Even Giolito and just one of the others. Rizzo's record on trades is a strong one, but this is certainly a headscratcher.

To go with his million dollar arm. Could he be an ace? Sure. More likely scenarios see him end up a good 8th inning guy, him blow out his arm throwing 102, or him break his hand in a fight with a teammate. To me he wasn't a top 30 prospect.

In comment 13254109 ryanmkeane said:

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Kopech was #30 prospect...unreal. Red Sox basically need to win the WS in the next 2 years for that trade to be a success.

yeah nah that's not true at all.Jus bein real with you. They got a nice return. Very very nice. Sale is extremely superb. They got Sale, the Nats got the throw in on a deal for a good player.

This conversation on MLB Network. Any major leaguer is worth more than minor leaguer. Wowzers.

Does a lineup with Turner and Espinoza win 5 fewer games because WAR says it should? Espinoza has more pop And it remains to be seen whether a defensive alignment with Eaton in CF and Turner at SS is THAT much better defensively than one with Espinoza at SS and Turner in CF. The problem is more the lack of protection for Harper than what is on top of that lineup. To me they aren't five wins better, they may not be any wins better. Throw in opportunity cost and it looks even worse.

In comment 13254127 Dunedin81 said:

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To go with his million dollar arm. Could he be an ace? Sure. More likely scenarios see him end up a good 8th inning guy, him blow out his arm throwing 102, or him break his hand in a fight with a teammate. To me he wasn't a top 30 prospect.

Yup, Sawx hype machine in full effect

a blank check to distract their fans from the trade they just made.

In comment 13254137 illmatic said:

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a blank check to distract their fans from the trade they just made.

I think Rizzo would say causation runs in the other direction. Cheap CF so you can open up for Chapman.

Casey SternVerified account
‏@CaseyStern
Consensus on the floor here from GM's: As bad a panic move as they've seen at the meetings.


Casey Stern ‏@CaseyStern 27m27 minutes ago Washington, DC
In my 13 Winter Meetings, even when Pujols signed with Angels, I've never seen commotion like there is right now after this Nats deal.

But in this case I agree. Total desperation move.

Already noted it was a massive price and that the White Sox already look loaded with more valuable chips to deal. My only "defense" of the nationals is their roster as of today is better than it was pretrade and they were WS contenders last season. If Eaton doesn't represent an upgrade in te OF for 2017 then that's just being ridiculous. He's a plus fielder, high boo, double digit homer, double digit steal guy who "does it all". He's not as "good" as his 6.0 fWar would indicate because he gets a ton of credit for his defense but he's a very good player. Nats got better. If they win a WS the next 1-3 seasons they won't care what they gave up. 8;
I wouldn't have made the move but they also are likely resigned to lose Harper and figure "let's do this now". MCutchen had greater upside/risk. I'm just hoping they don't suddenly make another deal with Chicago for the insanely underrated ex met/Yankee fanhand Quintana. Arguably the most underrated sp in baseball. I'm shocked the Nats couldn't pry away Robertson. I'm guessing people are blown away at the sox prospects once it's all said and done (jones should bring back more than thornburg, Quintana not far less than sale etc

that White Sox fans are feeling right now. After Atlanta made all those trades and went from arguably the worst farm system in baseball to a top 3 farm system in a year there was quite a bit of excitement. However Atlanta did not receive the close to MLB ready top prospects that the White Sox have accumulated over the past two days. Their GM is already a shoe in for executive of the year.

Do you think the White Sox are more likely to keep Quintana unless they are blow away with an offer? I was thinking that since they received Moncada and Giolito who are both going to be on the MLB roster at some point next season would they keep Quintana in hopes that they can compete again in 2018? I think Robertson is going to be traded for a decent package but I wouldn't be surprised if they hung onto Quintana and built around him and Giolito.

I was literally just talking to a Mets guy who suggested just that. That Quintana is the one guy they may keep unless absolutely blown away because SP is so hard to find and his contract so good. He said the asking price is "immense"

It certainly stands to reason that Turner could become a plus defensive CF with more reps because of the wheels. Espinoza is an above average SS. So it is at least possible that the duo as SS/CF gives you better defensive metrics than Turner/Eaton? The offensive upgrade from Espinoza to Eaton is clear but you still sacrifice power to get more speed and (much) better OBP.

Holy shit.

I hate to over-commoditize the concept of prospects, because clearly each player has unique strengths/weaknesses/makeup/probability of success, but it seems there's been a pretty violent swing of the scales from over-valuing prospects to under-valuing.

At the surface, that Eaton trade is one of the more atrocious moves I can remember seeing.

closers. I know the Marlins are in the hunt. What about the Nats? Dodgers? Who else is in need?

In comment 13254127 Dunedin81 said:

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To go with his million dollar arm. Could he be an ace? Sure. More likely scenarios see him end up a good 8th inning guy, him blow out his arm throwing 102, or him break his hand in a fight with a teammate. To me he wasn't a top 30 prospect.

To me seems like Kyle Farnsworth 2.0. The comp i heard was Nuke LaLoosh...

Wasn't a dick or anything like that.

Thought I read Farnsworth is playing professional... football somewhere lol

In comment 13254179 Dunedin81 said:

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Wasn't a dick or anything like that.

had a reputation for being a bad ass though and slightly unhinged.
farnsworth smash - ( New Window )

contract?

Or were the Nationals the only sucker around. Isn't Eaton a little fragile too?

In comment 13254176 Justlurking said:

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In comment 13254127 Dunedin81 said: Quote: To go with his million dollar arm. Could he be an ace? Sure. More likely scenarios see him end up a good 8th inning guy, him blow out his arm throwing 102, or him break his hand in a fight with a teammate. To me he wasn't a top 30 prospect. To me seems like Kyle Farnsworth 2.0. The comp i heard was Nuke LaLoosh...

Kopech is a top 30 prospect. His numbers at A+ at 20 in an admitted small sample were video game like and his stuff is legit.

I made the Nuke Laloosh reference yesterday because he throws 100+ and is wild. not unplayable wild, but intimitadingly wild. and he had 8 wild pitches in 52 innings along with his 29 walks and 82 strikeouts.

in 135 minors league innings he's averaged 11.5 k's per 9.

He already did break his hand in a fight with a teammate and he has a PED suspension (for amphetamines) but apparently that is behind him.

The off-field stuff is IMO holding back his prospect ranking, not his stuff.

He could wind up in the pen, but for now is a starter and one with scary potential.

Yankees fans should be glad he's traded out of the division.

he was even good in the arizona fall league and I think each team can only have one player below AA or something like that.

In comment 13254172 bigbluehoya said:

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Holy shit. I hate to over-commoditize the concept of prospects, because clearly each player has unique strengths/weaknesses/makeup/probability of success, but it seems there's been a pretty violent swing of the scales from over-valuing prospects to under-valuing. At the surface, that Eaton trade is one of the more atrocious moves I can remember seeing.

You're right seeing moncada and giolata dealt this week was surprising. But ... Both big market clubs ... And you've got to think last weeks new labor deal (have to give up 2nd 3rd and:or 5th picks now versus firsts previously) has a lot to do with it.

In these meetings. :) like this move a lot.

In comment 13254316 MetsAreBack said:

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In comment 13254172 bigbluehoya said: Quote: Holy shit. I hate to over-commoditize the concept of prospects, because clearly each player has unique strengths/weaknesses/makeup/probability of success, but it seems there's been a pretty violent swing of the scales from over-valuing prospects to under-valuing. At the surface, that Eaton trade is one of the more atrocious moves I can remember seeing. You're right seeing moncada and giolata dealt this week was surprising. But ... Both big market clubs ... And you've got to think last weeks new labor deal (have to give up 2nd 3rd and:or 5th picks now versus firsts previously) has a lot to do with it.

On your point about the new labor deal...

If it has any impact on trade prices, don't trade prices go down (since Free agency becomes slightly "cheaper" than it used to be from the reduced loss of draft pick). Maybe you could argue that free agent $ prices go up as a result of the draft pick aspect becoming less steep, offsetting any benefit. But I don't see why prospect hauls in trades go up as a result of the deal.

What am I missing?

Big market clubs keep tens of millions of extra dollars a year. That's the impact

I am wondering what Atlanta would receive for Ender Inciarte. He is young and on a great contract for 4 more years.

Round 1
1. Twins: Miguel Diaz, RHP, Brewers
2. Reds: Luis Torrens, C, Yankees
3. Padres: Allen Cordoba, SS, Cardinals
4. Rays: Kevin Gadea, Mariners
5. Braves: Armando Rivero, RHP, Cubs
6. D-backs: Tyler Jones, RHP, Yankees
7. Brewers: Caleb Smith, LHP, Yankees
8. Angels Justin Haley,RHP, Red Sox
9. White Sox: Dylan Covey, RHP, A�s
10. Pirates: Tyler Webb, LHP, Yankees
11. Tigers: Daniel Stumpf, LHP, Royals
12. Orioles: Aneury Tavarez, 2B, Red Sox
13. Blue Jays: Glenn Sparkman, RHP, Royals
14. Red Sox: Josh Rutledge, INF, Rockies
15. Indians: Holby Miller, LHP, Phillies
16. Rangers: Michael Hauschild, RHP, Astros

Round 2
17. Reds: Stuart Turner, C, Twins
18. Orioles: Anthony Santander, OF, Indians

taken Round 1 of the AAA phase.

... well, you see what Cash was worried about.

Rule V picks more often than not get returned, and in any case the Yankees' system is so deep at the moment that none of those guys except Torrens were close to the top 30.

Who apparently made him an over the top offer. The market for Gardner has dwindled to mostly AL East teams.

you have to think the longer he goes without a contract the less likely it is he goes back to the Dodgers. The Marlins may have the biggest deal, the Nats might offer some complicated deferred bullshit to make it look like the largest deal, but you have to wonder if the Dodgers are a little lukewarm. Jansen is a dominant closer but they were hot for Chapman last offseason prior to the DV incident. IDK if it's the debt issue or it's the too many cooks front office approach but if they lose him they're going to struggle to replace that sort of certainty at the end of games.

could be pretty damn good this year, I mean the Cubs are the most talented team in the Central but the Cardinals could be a sleeper.

In comment 13256404 DanMetroMan said:

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could be pretty damn good this year, I mean the Cubs are the most talented team in the Central but the Cardinals could be a sleeper.

Dan, when are the Cards ever not good? I don't know how they do it, but every year (virtually) they are extremely competitive. Great organization.

In comment 13256376 Dunedin81 said:

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you have to think the longer he goes without a contract the less likely it is he goes back to the Dodgers. The Marlins may have the biggest deal, the Nats might offer some complicated deferred bullshit to make it look like the largest deal, but you have to wonder if the Dodgers are a little lukewarm. Jansen is a dominant closer but they were hot for Chapman last offseason prior to the DV incident. IDK if it's the debt issue or it's the too many cooks front office approach but if they lose him they're going to struggle to replace that sort of certainty at the end of games.

Rooting for the Marlins-would move the Yankees up to #15 in the Amateur Draft

In comment 13256417 section125 said:

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In comment 13256404 DanMetroMan said: Quote: could be pretty damn good this year, I mean the Cubs are the most talented team in the Central but the Cardinals could be a sleeper. Dan, when are the Cards ever not good? I don't know how they do it, but every year (virtually) they are extremely competitive. Great organization.

Oh absolutely. In my view they are the best run franchise in baseball (pretty unfair they get competitive balance picks given their market) but that's not why/how they are so good/well run. Alex Reyes is a flat stud, people going nuts over Giolito... Giolito couldn't shine Reyes shoes stuff wise. Luke Weaver is underrated, Bader will be another in a long line of underrated cardinals hitters who somehow come up and hit. There was a Wacha/Blackmon rumor the other day (pre Fowler) and I just knew Blackmon would be a complete stud for them if it happened.

In comment 13256417 section125 said:

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In comment 13256404 DanMetroMan said: Quote: could be pretty damn good this year, I mean the Cubs are the most talented team in the Central but the Cardinals could be a sleeper. Dan, when are the Cards ever not good? I don't know how they do it, but every year (virtually) they are extremely competitive. Great organization.

It's not a complete answer, they are well-run, but it helps that the CBAs treat them as "small-market" even though they have great attendance and are a high-revenue team. The idea that they need competitive balance picks is absurd.

In comment 13256568 Dunedin81 said:

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In comment 13256417 section125 said: Quote: In comment 13256404 DanMetroMan said: Quote: could be pretty damn good this year, I mean the Cubs are the most talented team in the Central but the Cardinals could be a sleeper. Dan, when are the Cards ever not good? I don't know how they do it, but every year (virtually) they are extremely competitive. Great organization. It's not a complete answer, they are well-run, but it helps that the CBAs treat them as "small-market" even though they have great attendance and are a high-revenue team. The idea that they need competitive balance picks is absurd.

It might well be absurd, but they continue to produce year after year. What other "small market" team comes close to matching them. Besides Miami and Oakland which occasionally put a competitive team on the field, what other teams are as successful with consistency - are the SF Giants small market?

they're a regional market, not a local one, and their regional market is very large. Cleveland, by contrast, is not a regional market. Yes there are fans outside of Cleveland, but it doesn't dominate the middle of the country the way the Cardinals do. So if you only address the size of the metropolitan area, you're not capturing what a team has at its disposal. Tampa, for instance, is a larger metro area than St. Louis, but a much smaller concentration of people who give a shit about baseball.