... he is not hardly getting enough time to look past his first option. And you can see even when he does have time, he is worried about the protection and rushing throws. To be fair, I think before the Pitt gae he has actually seemed a bit more comfortable in the pocket, but I think the breakdowns in the blocking over such a long period of time have really adversely effected his judgement and inner clock.
But it's clear that he doesn't have the speed or size to be a major factor playing outside. His lack of separation on comeback routes was jarring, as cornerbacks showed little respect for his deep speed.
They need a legit Z receiver. Cruz should be Shepard's backup in the slot. Sorry, that's just what he is now. Yeah, he's made a few plays over the year. Any JAG playing receiver in the NFL is going to make a few plays here and there on well-thrown balls. What Cruz is now, outside, just doesn't cut the mustard. Get a better option, somehow. Trade, free agency, or the draft, they need a true Z receiver, someone preferrably with size and/or serious deep speed.
the right question is
would Giants offense be better if Cruz was move to his natural position which is SLOT WR?
This is how I feel. Cruz was never effective on the outside. I'd rather see them split time at slot between Shepherd and Cruz, and try giving more reps to Lewis and/or King on the outside.
... he is not hardly getting enough time to look past his first option. And you can see even when he does have time, he is worried about the protection and rushing throws. To be fair, I think before the Pitt gae he has actually seemed a bit more comfortable in the pocket, but I think the breakdowns in the blocking over such a long period of time have really adversely effected his judgement and inner clock.
Agreed. Cruz is also not very effective as an outside receiver. He doesn't have the deep speed that CBs respect, which would allow him to create more separation, especially on comeback routes. He needs to be in the slot, but that is Shepard's position now. The only way Cruz can work out of the slot is in 4 WR sets.
... he is not hardly getting enough time to look past his first option. And you can see even when he does have time, he is worried about the protection and rushing throws. To be fair, I think before the Pitt gae he has actually seemed a bit more comfortable in the pocket, but I think the breakdowns in the blocking over such a long period of time have really adversely effected his judgement and inner clock.
Agreed. Cruz is also not very effective as an outside receiver. He doesn't have the deep speed that CBs respect, which would allow him to create more separation, especially on comeback routes. He needs to be in the slot, but that is Shepard's position now. The only way Cruz can work out of the slot is in 4 WR sets.
Yes! 4 WR sets! I wish they would run these more! I feel like that is a need at this point.
After hearing Cruz's interview on Francesa, he mentioned people playing in different positions. I think this week we see Cruz in the slot a lot more. Its a hunch but I think we see a change.
looking through that was that there was 2 or 3 times that the seam route was wide open and Eli didn't look at it. one was cruz. one was Tye. IDK if that is a function of time or what, but hitting that would change the way the defense thinks. dramatically
The most depressing part of the article is how often the offensive line seems to be the biggest impediment to success.
Cruz is basically slot receiver at this point and even then he's not better than Shep in that role. Most of the deep passes Cruz caught this season came despite a defender being draped all over him.
McAdoo also deserves plenty of blame because the play designs don't do enough to help the receivers get open. There aren't enough bunches, stacks, or picks/rubs to help Cruz and Shep.
In comment 13254026 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
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Do we know Sheppard is better than Cruz in the slot ??
We haven't seen Cruz in the slot in 3 years.
Duggan states in the article the obvious, which is that Vic doesn't have the same quickness he had years ago. That's not going to magically change if he moves inside permanently.
1. Cruz lost quickness due to the injury
2. Cruz is playing out of position but I think Shepard is NOW a better slot WR
3. Eli is not seeing the field that well plus the pressure is getting to him
4. Cruz will run his short route and then stop. He needs to innovate and work free to an open space if Eli has time and is still trying find someone.
5. Unfortunately it is like I thought... Cruz would not return to his 2011 form. He was not even there right before his injury either.
We need another WR via free agency next season. Who is available? After we sign 3 OLs of course.
where I was able to watch Cruz in person. He has lost his ability to beat defenders off the line of scrimmage. As a result, none of what this article said was surprising.
More disappointing to me was how Eli missed seeing guys who were wide open and tried forcing the ball into tight spots.
But it's clear that he doesn't have the speed or size to be a major factor playing outside. His lack of separation on comeback routes was jarring, as cornerbacks showed little respect for his deep speed.
They need a legit Z receiver. Cruz should be Shepard's backup in the slot. Sorry, that's just what he is now. Yeah, he's made a few plays over the year. Any JAG playing receiver in the NFL is going to make a few plays here and there on well-thrown balls. What Cruz is now, outside, just doesn't cut the mustard. Get a better option, somehow. Trade, free agency, or the draft, they need a true Z receiver, someone preferrably with size and/or serious deep speed.
Do you mean an X? In a typical offense the X is your WR that is on the line of scrimmage like Plax was. Your Z is the receiver that motions around because he is off the ball which is why you have all different motions like Zip, Zoom, Zin, etc. That tells the Z receiver what type of motion he will have. The TE is the Y and the backs would be the A and B players. Now. In today's NFL there are way more receivers and less fullbacks. That means, I would imagine, that they don't focus so much on the letters any more as opposed to names of personnel groupings and route concepts. When I was in college we had different names of personnel groupings such as rabbit for the smaller faster guys to get on the field. You can still say 10 personnel but you can also say 10 rabbit which would let the players know which WRs and RB would be on the field. But back to the original point, I think you mean a true X like Plax was for us or like Julio is for Atlanta. But, also, we should be flexible in our positions. McAdoo has said multiple times that all the receivers should know all the positions because they will be moved around for multiple reasons one of which is matchups.
95% mostly beacause of Vic Cruz. Are we trying to force a square peg in a round hole? If Cruz is not the same guy this year and not a very functional outside receiver, then why is the Head Coach so insistent on keeping him there and on the field 95% of the time? Mac is stubborn, but he makes TC look like a sweetheart here.
Number one, "film review" from a beat reporter is precious. Number two, it's obvious Cruz doesn't have the straight-line speed to play outside. Newsflash - he never did. Cruz made a name in the slot, with feel with his QB. Shep can't play outside either, which is the real concern.
Shep and Cruz should split reps inside, be crafty and make plays. It's absurd this isn't the case.
but how does being on the field 26 of 60 snaps make for 95%?
Lewis played 29 snaps, so I guess he played 99% of the time?
Huh? The point is we're in 11 personnel because they want their best personnel on the field and although he may not have been on there 95% of the time, the grouping was used a vast majority of the time. Mac has mentioned before that they want OBJ, Shepard and Cruz on the field at the same time because it's suppose to create more opportunity and mismatches, well if he's not getting open, nor effective on the outside, it has to be asked why they continue with the same grouping. As others have already mentioned, it might be worthwhile to see 2 RBs in or moving Cruz to the slot once in a while, or going 4 wide with both Shepard and Cruz in slots; changing up the formations and tendencies on offense.
It's not like we can't have two slot receivers on the field at the same time.
Don't the Pats have all "slot type" receivers? I know they have two terrific TEs but aren't their WRs are all basically slot type receivers? They run a lot of rub routes from bunch formations to get their WRs separation and get the ball in enough space to make plays after the catch. When they had legitimate speed on the outside they threw a lot of deep balls. Now they have quickness and less speed so they adjust the offense.
My point is that at this point in the season we should see adjustments based on the players we have. If Cruz isn't producing on the outside, and he's not, if none of the WRs are are getting open, then scheme some plays to adjust. Why can't we see some of the bunch formations? Why no heavy sets to run? Two back sets? I don't know exactly but something's got to change. It's just always the same plays from the same formations. It's really kind of ridiculous at this point.
where I was able to watch Cruz in person. He has lost his ability to beat defenders off the line of scrimmage. As a result, none of what this article said was surprising.
More disappointing to me was how Eli missed seeing guys who were wide open and tried forcing the ball into tight spots.
Agree, he seems to have lost a step or two, and no longer the same player.
where I was able to watch Cruz in person. He has lost his ability to beat defenders off the line of scrimmage. As a result, none of what this article said was surprising.
More disappointing to me was how Eli missed seeing guys who were wide open and tried forcing the ball into tight spots.
Agree, he seems to have lost a step or two, and no longer the same player.
I don't think this is true, but if Cruz really is "done", why is McAdoo still playing him outside? Give another WR some time outside and rotate Shep and Cruz in the slot.
That we haven't seen in a game really is Tavares King. I thought for sure he would have gotten a shot after his stellar pre-season but yet he hasn't really been given an opportunity. He has great speed and good hands. I would throw him on the outside with Shep in the slot and see what happens. We gotta try something else cause this aint working.
That we haven't seen in a game really is Tavares King. I thought for sure he would have gotten a shot after his stellar pre-season but yet he hasn't really been given an opportunity. He has great speed and good hands. I would throw him on the outside with Shep in the slot and see what happens. We gotta try something else cause this aint working.
I agree, except, I'd move Cruz to the slot where Eli can see him easier. Cruz and Eli have a rapport - they read each other well. I think Cruz may do better for the Giants in the slot than Shepard.
King looked great preseason.
I have to admit, I didn't even "see" Cruz during the game......at one point I wondered if he got hurt. Invisible.
They need a legit Z receiver. Cruz should be Shepard's backup in the slot. Sorry, that's just what he is now. Yeah, he's made a few plays over the year. Any JAG playing receiver in the NFL is going to make a few plays here and there on well-thrown balls. What Cruz is now, outside, just doesn't cut the mustard. Get a better option, somehow. Trade, free agency, or the draft, they need a true Z receiver, someone preferrably with size and/or serious deep speed.
would Giants offense be better if Cruz was move to his natural position which is SLOT WR?
would Giants offense be better if Cruz was move to his natural position which is SLOT WR?
This is how I feel. Cruz was never effective on the outside. I'd rather see them split time at slot between Shepherd and Cruz, and try giving more reps to Lewis and/or King on the outside.
Agreed. Cruz is also not very effective as an outside receiver. He doesn't have the deep speed that CBs respect, which would allow him to create more separation, especially on comeback routes. He needs to be in the slot, but that is Shepard's position now. The only way Cruz can work out of the slot is in 4 WR sets.
Quote:
... he is not hardly getting enough time to look past his first option. And you can see even when he does have time, he is worried about the protection and rushing throws. To be fair, I think before the Pitt gae he has actually seemed a bit more comfortable in the pocket, but I think the breakdowns in the blocking over such a long period of time have really adversely effected his judgement and inner clock.
Agreed. Cruz is also not very effective as an outside receiver. He doesn't have the deep speed that CBs respect, which would allow him to create more separation, especially on comeback routes. He needs to be in the slot, but that is Shepard's position now. The only way Cruz can work out of the slot is in 4 WR sets.
Yes! 4 WR sets! I wish they would run these more! I feel like that is a need at this point.
Cruz is basically slot receiver at this point and even then he's not better than Shep in that role. Most of the deep passes Cruz caught this season came despite a defender being draped all over him.
McAdoo also deserves plenty of blame because the play designs don't do enough to help the receivers get open. There aren't enough bunches, stacks, or picks/rubs to help Cruz and Shep.
We haven't seen Cruz in the slot in 3 years.
We haven't seen Cruz in the slot in 3 years.
Duggan states in the article the obvious, which is that Vic doesn't have the same quickness he had years ago. That's not going to magically change if he moves inside permanently.
Our TEs aren't world beaters anyways
2. Cruz is playing out of position but I think Shepard is NOW a better slot WR
3. Eli is not seeing the field that well plus the pressure is getting to him
4. Cruz will run his short route and then stop. He needs to innovate and work free to an open space if Eli has time and is still trying find someone.
5. Unfortunately it is like I thought... Cruz would not return to his 2011 form. He was not even there right before his injury either.
We need another WR via free agency next season. Who is available? After we sign 3 OLs of course.
More disappointing to me was how Eli missed seeing guys who were wide open and tried forcing the ball into tight spots.
Quote:
But it's clear that he doesn't have the speed or size to be a major factor playing outside. His lack of separation on comeback routes was jarring, as cornerbacks showed little respect for his deep speed.
They need a legit Z receiver. Cruz should be Shepard's backup in the slot. Sorry, that's just what he is now. Yeah, he's made a few plays over the year. Any JAG playing receiver in the NFL is going to make a few plays here and there on well-thrown balls. What Cruz is now, outside, just doesn't cut the mustard. Get a better option, somehow. Trade, free agency, or the draft, they need a true Z receiver, someone preferrably with size and/or serious deep speed.
Do you mean an X? In a typical offense the X is your WR that is on the line of scrimmage like Plax was. Your Z is the receiver that motions around because he is off the ball which is why you have all different motions like Zip, Zoom, Zin, etc. That tells the Z receiver what type of motion he will have. The TE is the Y and the backs would be the A and B players. Now. In today's NFL there are way more receivers and less fullbacks. That means, I would imagine, that they don't focus so much on the letters any more as opposed to names of personnel groupings and route concepts. When I was in college we had different names of personnel groupings such as rabbit for the smaller faster guys to get on the field. You can still say 10 personnel but you can also say 10 rabbit which would let the players know which WRs and RB would be on the field. But back to the original point, I think you mean a true X like Plax was for us or like Julio is for Atlanta. But, also, we should be flexible in our positions. McAdoo has said multiple times that all the receivers should know all the positions because they will be moved around for multiple reasons one of which is matchups.
Play a little high school football. Dan?
Lewis played 29 snaps, so I guess he played 99% of the time?
Shep and Cruz should split reps inside, be crafty and make plays. It's absurd this isn't the case.
Play a little high school football. Dan?
Shaun O'Hara made the same observations. Not that you need to have played football to know how to interpret it,
Lewis played 29 snaps, so I guess he played 99% of the time?
Huh? The point is we're in 11 personnel because they want their best personnel on the field and although he may not have been on there 95% of the time, the grouping was used a vast majority of the time. Mac has mentioned before that they want OBJ, Shepard and Cruz on the field at the same time because it's suppose to create more opportunity and mismatches, well if he's not getting open, nor effective on the outside, it has to be asked why they continue with the same grouping. As others have already mentioned, it might be worthwhile to see 2 RBs in or moving Cruz to the slot once in a while, or going 4 wide with both Shepard and Cruz in slots; changing up the formations and tendencies on offense.
Don't the Pats have all "slot type" receivers? I know they have two terrific TEs but aren't their WRs are all basically slot type receivers? They run a lot of rub routes from bunch formations to get their WRs separation and get the ball in enough space to make plays after the catch. When they had legitimate speed on the outside they threw a lot of deep balls. Now they have quickness and less speed so they adjust the offense.
My point is that at this point in the season we should see adjustments based on the players we have. If Cruz isn't producing on the outside, and he's not, if none of the WRs are are getting open, then scheme some plays to adjust. Why can't we see some of the bunch formations? Why no heavy sets to run? Two back sets? I don't know exactly but something's got to change. It's just always the same plays from the same formations. It's really kind of ridiculous at this point.
More disappointing to me was how Eli missed seeing guys who were wide open and tried forcing the ball into tight spots.
Quote:
where I was able to watch Cruz in person. He has lost his ability to beat defenders off the line of scrimmage. As a result, none of what this article said was surprising.
More disappointing to me was how Eli missed seeing guys who were wide open and tried forcing the ball into tight spots.
Agree, he seems to have lost a step or two, and no longer the same player.
I don't think this is true, but if Cruz really is "done", why is McAdoo still playing him outside? Give another WR some time outside and rotate Shep and Cruz in the slot.
I agree, except, I'd move Cruz to the slot where Eli can see him easier. Cruz and Eli have a rapport - they read each other well. I think Cruz may do better for the Giants in the slot than Shepard.
King looked great preseason.
Anyway, just MHO...