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NFT: Sox trade Adam Elton to Nats for Giolito-FINALIZED

superspynyg : 12/7/2016 6:00 pm
And two other prospects.

Score mobile alert.
Will try to get more and link.
Lopez so part of deal  
superspynyg : 12/7/2016 6:02 pm : link
Wow Sox have gotten the top two prospects. Plus they still have good talent on that roster in Abreu and others.
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I mean, this haul would be reasonable for Eaton + Quintana, but  
Jim in Hoboken : 12/7/2016 6:05 pm : link
Eaton alone? Wow. Since when does the Nats care about spending money?
LOL  
RasputinPrime : 12/7/2016 6:06 pm : link
wow.

For Adam Eaton? Is Giolito's arm still attached to his body?
...  
rut17 : 12/7/2016 6:06 pm : link
Already being discussed here
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In 2 days  
Jay on the Island : 12/7/2016 6:13 pm : link
the White Sox have rebuilt lol.
AL Central is going to be nuts  
spike : 12/7/2016 6:15 pm : link
Indians- White Sox- Tigers - Royals - Twins :(
I really wanted to put the word  
superspynyg : 12/7/2016 6:20 pm : link
FINALIZED in it
All 3 top players that sox got are  
superspynyg : 12/7/2016 6:21 pm : link
MLB ready and should start this season in the bigs.
How do you go from almost landing  
illmatic : 12/7/2016 6:29 pm : link
Sale with those prospects to... Adam Eaton? Does Giolito need surgery again or something? I would want to break everything right now if I were a Nats fan.
soooo do the White Sox want Jay Bruce or Granderson?  
spike : 12/7/2016 6:30 pm : link
The Mets can take just ONE of the 3 prospects the Sox just landed. :)
Bruce, Nimmo,  
SethFromAstoria : 12/7/2016 6:36 pm : link
Harv?

for Quintana, Frazier and Robertson
RE: Bruce, Nimmo,  
Jay on the Island : 12/7/2016 7:16 pm : link
In comment 13254123 SethFromAstoria said:
Quote:
Harv?

for Quintana, Frazier and Robertson

Lol there is no way Chicago accepts that. The Sox are rebuilding why would they want Bruce who is a free agent at the end of the season? Also Robertson has quite a bit of value right now. The Mets would likely need to include Rosario plus.
Talking heads....  
Reb8thVA : 12/7/2016 7:24 pm : link
We're saying that some in the Nats front office were down on Giolito and believed he would never be more than a #3 starter. They also argued Eaton's five year contract made him much more attractive
RE: Talking heads....  
Justlurking : 12/7/2016 7:38 pm : link
In comment 13254166 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
We're saying that some in the Nats front office were down on Giolito and believed he would never be more than a #3 starter. They also argued Eaton's five year contract made him much more attractive


Then they should have shut the F up about it and hyped him to no end before dealing him. Leaking that he stinks isn't a smart way to do business.
RE: All 3 top players that sox got are  
pjcas18 : 12/7/2016 7:49 pm : link
In comment 13254105 superspynyg said:
Quote:
MLB ready and should start this season in the bigs.


Already said Moncada will start in the minors and play 2B.
RE: Talking heads....  
feelflows : 12/7/2016 8:09 pm : link
In comment 13254166 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
We're saying that some in the Nats front office were down on Giolito and believed he would never be more than a #3 starter. They also argued Eaton's five year contract made him much more attractive


Same as it ever was.
RE: RE: Talking heads....  
McNally's_Nuts : 12/7/2016 8:26 pm : link
In comment 13254193 feelflows said:
Quote:
In comment 13254166 Reb8thVA said:


Quote:


We're saying that some in the Nats front office were down on Giolito and believed he would never be more than a #3 starter. They also argued Eaton's five year contract made him much more attractive



Same as it ever was.


The White Sox GM woke up and just asked himself, well...how did I get here?
RE: RE: RE: Talking heads....  
feelflows : 12/7/2016 8:32 pm : link
In comment 13254202 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
In comment 13254193 feelflows said:


Quote:


In comment 13254166 Reb8thVA said:


Quote:


We're saying that some in the Nats front office were down on Giolito and believed he would never be more than a #3 starter. They also argued Eaton's five year contract made him much more attractive



Same as it ever was.



The White Sox GM woke up and just asked himself, well...how did I get here?


Sox may run run run run away with the division.
Giolito sucks  
Vanzetti : 12/7/2016 9:25 pm : link
Nats are getting rid of him while he still has some value


That's a lot for Eaton  
Giants2012 : 12/7/2016 9:50 pm : link
Different circumstances but Fulmer brought back Cespedes.

Would Cespedes under more control be worth three top prospects? I'd have to say Cespedes is worth more if Eaton is worth three.

RE: RE: Talking heads....  
JesseS : 12/7/2016 10:43 pm : link
In comment 13254193 feelflows said:
Quote:
In comment 13254166 Reb8thVA said:


Quote:


We're saying that some in the Nats front office were down on Giolito and believed he would never be more than a #3 starter. They also argued Eaton's five year contract made him much more attractive



Same as it ever was.


Same as it ever was
I think they've realized  
RobCarpenter : 12/8/2016 7:20 am : link
that Turner needs to be their everyday shortstop. Plus before Turner their CFs were awful at the plate.

White Sox are doing well this offseason.  
Heisenberg : 12/8/2016 8:53 am : link
That is a LOT for Adam Eaton
I said this on the other thread...  
Dunedin81 : 12/8/2016 9:07 am : link
but to me this trade was ghastly from the Nats' perspective. You have five years of cheap production, which is great, but your window is probably 2-3 years and you'd have to expect Eaton to be declining at the tail end of the deal. Is a 32 year old who doesn't really hit for power and is probably back in a corner OF spot by then really going to be a cornerstone player on a post-Harper Nats team?

There were cheaper 2-3 year options, arguably better ones as well. Charlie Blackmon would have been a nice fit, especially with their needs offensively (protection for Harper) and maybe worth that much in the way of prospects. If you had to have a top of the lineup guy, Gardner would have been much cheaper and left the pieces to go get something else you needed.
It's just bizarre given how Rizzo has operated in recent years  
Greg from LI : 12/8/2016 9:17 am : link
All this time they've been unwilling to deal top prospects to bring in someone to put them over the top, and when they finally do decide to pull the trigger, it's for Adam Eaton?
RE: Talking heads....  
Victor in CT : 12/8/2016 9:56 am : link
In comment 13254166 Reb8thVA said:
Quote:
We're saying that some in the Nats front office were down on Giolito and believed he would never be more than a #3 starter. They also argued Eaton's five year contract made him much more attractive


What's wrong with having a #3 starter who is under your control if you have Scherzer and Strasburg?. Now he'll could be a really good # 5 with the Bosox behind Price, Sale Porcello and Wright. Sox are going to be tough
Eaton is one of those guys...  
arcarsenal : 12/8/2016 9:57 am : link
Where I see him play and look at his numbers and then see that he was a 6 WAR player and don't feel like it matches up.

I felt the same way about Heyward in 2015.
WAR grossly overvalues defense  
Greg from LI : 12/8/2016 10:06 am : link
It's just a philosophical thing for me. Defense is good, offense is better. There's a tipping point - the 2004-06 Yankees being an example of a team whose defense was so bad that it legitimately hurt them despite great hitting - but in general teams that can really hit but are butchers in the field will beat teams with crackerjack fielders who are mediocre hitters.

Eaton's not a mediocre hitter. He's actually quite good. However, if you assume Turner is going to start in CF, that means that the White Sox paid a very steep price for a corner outfielder with only moderate power.
My point is this...  
Dunedin81 : 12/8/2016 10:25 am : link
No guarantee Eaton is a plus plus CF, though he is probably above average there. Trea Turner might have developed into a plus plus CF because of the wheels. Maybe not, who knows? But I'm not convinced the defensive improvement of going from Espinoza at SS and Turner in CF to Turner at SS and Eaton in CF is going to be significant, there may not be one at all in the early going (assuming Turner has SOME growing pains as a young SS). Offensively it's an upgrade, but it's a mixed bag. Espinoza hit 24 HRs this year, Eaton is probably going to be in the mid-teens. Eaton is a much better hitter and a much better on-base guy, but he isn't a difference-maker on the bases. So Eaton in that lineup is an upgrade, but if they had a need it was to put a bona fide masher behind Harper and that hasn't happened. My point is, does this offensive improvement and the possible defensive improvement justify that kind of package, especially when you factor in opportunity cost?
A run saved by  
Metnut : 12/8/2016 10:32 am : link
defense is just as valuable as a run prevented by pitching or scored via offense. The defensive metrics aren't perfect but they are based off of the premise that Eaton got to an extra X amount of balls per year than the average OF and saved Y amount of runs by doing so which results in Z amount of wins.

I can understand disagreeing with how the defensive over average is calculated but I'm not sure why someone would disagree with the premise that saving runs via defense isn't valuable.
Because runs created on offense are ironclad  
Greg from LI : 12/8/2016 10:36 am : link
You either hit or you don't hit, get on base or don't get on base, score a run or don't score a run.

The defensive stats that go into the creation of WAR are speculative. They're guesses. Educated guesses, perhaps, but guesses nonetheless.
Defensive metrics are very speculative...  
Dunedin81 : 12/8/2016 10:50 am : link
the idea that you could generate these various inputs (range, park factors, performance of adjoining defenders, etc etc) and it would spit out a magic number like runs saved or defensive WAR conjures up images of the engineers in Willie Wonka trying to determine the location of the Golden Ticket. A semi-sentient computer in the basement of Fangraphs is snickering to itself wondering what good but not great OF it can get a nine figure deal for.
RE: Because runs created on offense are ironclad  
Victor in CT : 12/8/2016 11:04 am : link
In comment 13254692 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
You either hit or you don't hit, get on base or don't get on base, score a run or don't score a run.

The defensive stats that go into the creation of WAR are speculative. They're guesses. Educated guesses, perhaps, but guesses nonetheless.


Yep. I'll tell you who loves it though: Jason Heyward
Also of note...  
Dunedin81 : 12/8/2016 11:28 am : link
the Nats love their deferred $. For an agent who wants to be able to tout a record deal, sure. But when the asking price is at $85-$90 mil, it's certainly not a plus. If they're in on Jansen, he may get a "bigger" offer from the Nats than Chapman got, but it would probably be deferred.
Totally agree re: defensive metrics  
Eric on Li : 12/8/2016 11:45 am : link
so many anecdotal situations where the numbers just do not align with reality. There is some validity to certain aspects of them and I'm generally a fan of the aggregate numbers (out of zone plays for example tends to be a good indicator of range) but the formulas are taken way too seriously. The inputs into the formulas are far from iron clad, the weighting of the formulas is speculative, and even if all of those factors were perfectly reliable metrics, all encompassing sports stats typically leave out a lot of context (QBR, PFF grades, etc.).
I'm a Nats fan  
RobCarpenter : 12/8/2016 11:47 am : link
and I think the Sox certainly got the better part of this deal. I really wonder who the Sox wanted for Sale that the Nats wouldn't trade.

I won't mind not seeing Espinosa in the lineup, he has decent power but he's 29 and his average sucks.

I wonder if the Nats did this trade so that they have money set aside for that Harper mega deal that he wants.
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