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NFT: Knicks Chat: Phil needs to shut up already

DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 9:43 am
Jackson criticized Anthony for being a ball stopper in an interview with CBS Sports Network Tuesday. The timing was curious since the Knicks had won four in a row before last night’s loss to Cleveland, and Anthony had been playing well.


“I don’t even know what was said to be honest with you,” Anthony said. “I just don’t even want to talk about that, what he’s talking about exactly. I want to stay away from that at this point. My focus is my teammates and winning. We’ve been playing great basketball and that’s the only thing I’m focused on.

“Whatever Phil said he said it. I have nothing to say about that.”

When Anthony was first asked about it, he uncharacteristically abruptly ended the interview.
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RE: No offense  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:15 pm : link
In comment 13255185 Semipro Lineman said:
Quote:
(consider this a Giants post), you guys are making some absolute judgements based on a quarter of the season.

Is this your first time

Thank you
Winslow  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:15 pm : link
will have a long career as a wing defender but he's awful in the context of ever being a player you build around, a player people advocated trading Melo for.... the boos would be ridiculous if we dealt Melo and Winslow was what we had to show for it. The Knicks reportedly were considering Winslow with their pick... imagine the view of the Knicks roster with Winslow over Porzingis...
RE: RE: Winslow is a very lucky guy  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 1:16 pm : link
In comment 13255184 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 13255174 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


He had the streak of his life when he got hot shooting during Duke's tourney run. He didn't shoot all that well prior, and he certainly hasn't shot well in the NBA, but he shot well at the most visible point in his career to that point. It conned people into thinking he was a much better pro prospect than he actually was. For most of the season, he scored by overpowering smaller wings when driving to the hoop, something he isn't big and fast enough to do in the NBA.


Greg...Winslow is about 6'7 and 230. His strength and first step quickness are one of the best parts of his game.


It makes him a great defender. He has no ball handling or shooting skills to date. No one doubts his physical profile but he has no visible NBA offensive skills outside rebounding.
RE: No offense  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:16 pm : link
In comment 13255185 Semipro Lineman said:
Quote:
(consider this a Giants post), you guys are making some absolute judgements based on a quarter of the season.

Is this your first time


Outside of Noah (which also includes nearly identical play to his season last year) where else is that happening? We are discussing year 2 of the rookie class...
Dan...  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:17 pm : link
yes, I'm calling KP the best young scorer. He can score from anywhere on the court. No player in the class can do that. And if you say Towns, he's not a three point shooter. Sure he can hit some every so often, but he's not.
Are you suggesting that there aren't many 6'7" wings in the NBA?  
Greg from LI : 12/8/2016 1:17 pm : link
You're gonna go with that? The players defending him in the NBA are, in general, much bigger and stronger than the players he overwhelmed in college, and a lot of colleges don't have post players bigger than 6'9" either. It didn't matter then that his shot was awful because he got to the basket with ease. That's not the case now.
RE: RE: No offense  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:18 pm : link
In comment 13255192 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13255185 Semipro Lineman said:


Quote:


(consider this a Giants post), you guys are making some absolute judgements based on a quarter of the season.

Is this your first time



Outside of Noah (which also includes nearly identical play to his season last year) where else is that happening? We are discussing year 2 of the rookie class...

Saying Winslow sucks would be one. The dude is 20.
RE: Dan...  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 1:18 pm : link
In comment 13255193 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
yes, I'm calling KP the best young scorer. He can score from anywhere on the court. No player in the class can do that. And if you say Towns, he's not a three point shooter. Sure he can hit some every so often, but he's not.


Towns is so much more dominant in the paint and off the dribble.
Is that right?  
Greg from LI : 12/8/2016 1:18 pm : link
Towns is shooting 37.8% from 3. Porzingas is shooting 37.9%
RE: Are you suggesting that there aren't many 6'7  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:19 pm : link
In comment 13255197 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
You're gonna go with that? The players defending him in the NBA are, in general, much bigger and stronger than the players he overwhelmed in college, and a lot of colleges don't have post players bigger than 6'9" either. It didn't matter then that his shot was awful because he got to the basket with ease. That's not the case now.

Not saying that at all. I think he's quicker than you imagine him to be.
RE: RE: RE: There  
djm : 12/8/2016 1:21 pm : link
In comment 13254875 Keith said:
Quote:
In comment 13254867 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:


In comment 13254838 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is a close to 0% chance Noah is going to be worth 4 years 72 million barring a body swap. Thomas has played better, Lee has too. Noah is a shell of his former self. He could play better but the contract was a bad move.



I think I can speak for everybody that if asked to do the phil hire again we all would, whatever warts people think he has. He has implemented a culture changed and saved on draft picks. I don't think any sensible Knicks fan would complain about the direction he has set for this franchise.

Does that mean he's perfect and we have to defend every move he make? No. The most important aspect of the Noah signing is that it locked the roster Phil wants to compete with. This is the team if they stick with rose and Jennings as the backcourt over the next few years (which may be the smart move depending on how the season plays out). But getting blown out on home court by the defending champs shows how far away this roster is from being in the conversation.

The Knicks are light years ahead of where they were 3 years ago but they are light years ahead from being where they want to be. Don't think there's any harm in admitting that. This team will go as far as KP takes it. The onus is on a 21 year old to essentially carry this team since there are few ways to improve this roster in the short term.



Great post. My thoughts almost exactly.


I agree too. In terms of personnell moves knicks have hit one HR and a few single maybe a double if lucky (Gomez?) They have also wiffed on a few but thankfully low risk...we'll see about Noah..don't think it's as big a bust risk some here but I digress. They need to hit one or two more HRs. Maybe trade up in this coming draft or trade some chips for that kind of player. They might actually possess some decent ammo this summer.
Not quick enough to just overwhelm NBA defenders physically  
Greg from LI : 12/8/2016 1:22 pm : link
His skills with the ball are a joke. Didn't matter at Duke, but it matters in Miami.
as evidence that my hopes for the Knicks are so diminished  
Greg from LI : 12/8/2016 1:23 pm : link
I view it as a major plus for Phil that he hasn't pulled any crushing boners that will be an anchor around their necks for years and years like the Curry deal.

Noah might be the move that ends that, though.
Players taken after  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 1:23 pm : link
Winslow that I would take over him now:

Turner, Lyles, Booker, Payne, Dekker, Anderson, Portis, Hollis-Jefferson, Nance Jr., Josh Richardson.

Willy was taken after Winslow. Serious question, if Miami offered a swap between the two would you take it? I feel like it would be a very tough decision.
RE: Dan...  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:24 pm : link
In comment 13255193 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
yes, I'm calling KP the best young scorer. He can score from anywhere on the court. No player in the class can do that. And if you say Towns, he's not a three point shooter. Sure he can hit some every so often, but he's not.



1. Towns is a better scorer than Porzingis. He averages more points and shoots a higher %

2. Towns is shooting 38% from 3 on 88 attempts, KP is shooting 37%

3. Not that I would take him over KP but in terms of pure scoring Wiggins is scoring more while shooting a better % from 3

Porzingis is not the best young scorer in the NBA right now. It's an absurd statement.
RE: RE: RE: No offense  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:26 pm : link
In comment 13255199 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 13255192 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13255185 Semipro Lineman said:


Quote:


(consider this a Giants post), you guys are making some absolute judgements based on a quarter of the season.

Is this your first time



Outside of Noah (which also includes nearly identical play to his season last year) where else is that happening? We are discussing year 2 of the rookie class...


Saying Winslow sucks would be one. The dude is 20.


And he's been an awful offensive player through 87 professional games. What would people on here be saying about Porzingis if he were shooting 34% from the field, with a career 26% from 3? I assume it wouldn't be very good...
RE: RE: Dan...  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 1:27 pm : link
In comment 13255218 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13255193 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


yes, I'm calling KP the best young scorer. He can score from anywhere on the court. No player in the class can do that. And if you say Towns, he's not a three point shooter. Sure he can hit some every so often, but he's not.




1. Towns is a better scorer than Porzingis. He averages more points and shoots a higher %

2. Towns is shooting 38% from 3 on 88 attempts, KP is shooting 37%

3. Not that I would take him over KP but in terms of pure scoring Wiggins is scoring more while shooting a better % from 3

Porzingis is not the best young scorer in the NBA right now. It's an absurd statement.


Depending on what we consider "young" I'd throw in Davis and Embiid. Giannis is a better scorer now but I think KP can pass him long term in terms of scoring. Giannis just brings a lot to the table in general though.
Who  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:27 pm : link
here agrees with Ryan that Porzingis is "the best young scorer in the NBA". Obviously "young" is subjective so I'm assuming a guy like Anthony Davis doesn't count despite only being 23
Dan no malice intended but it just sounds  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:28 pm : link
like you have a bunch of stats and sheets in front of you and are comparing players and pointing to which one and saying "see - look!" Watching both players play...I'm arguing for Porzingis because of his pure shooting stroke and ability to score anywhere on the court. KAT isn't a three point shooter. KP is.
I'd maybe agree that KP has the highest ceiling because of his height  
Greg from LI : 12/8/2016 1:29 pm : link
But no, he's not the best young scorer.
Just  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:30 pm : link
so this doesn't get twisted in the future, in no way would I trade Porzingis for Wiggins, nor would I trade him for other very good players. But right now there is no measure in which he's the "best young scorer" in the NBA. Just arbitrarily deciding that because Towns is attempting .8 3's per game less than KP eliminates him is ridiculous.
RE: Dan no malice intended but it just sounds  
Greg from LI : 12/8/2016 1:30 pm : link
In comment 13255229 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
KAT isn't a three point shooter. KP is.


You're being deliberately obtuse here. We've told you several times that Towns' career 3% is actually slightly higher than KPs.
If you're argument  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:31 pm : link
is stats, ok, sure, KAT averages what...1 fucking point more per game? Ok sure Dan you win. KAT it is. I'm looking at the bigger picture in terms of overall scoring...anywhere on the floor. It's like Melo...Anthony can score form literally anywhere on the basketball floor. That's why many people have called him the best "scorer" not necessarily player obviously.
Dan doing Dan things.  
Keith : 12/8/2016 1:31 pm : link
It's a battle that just can't be won. He's in one of those MOODS today.
RE: Dan no malice intended but it just sounds  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 1:31 pm : link
In comment 13255229 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
like you have a bunch of stats and sheets in front of you and are comparing players and pointing to which one and saying "see - look!" Watching both players play...I'm arguing for Porzingis because of his pure shooting stroke and ability to score anywhere on the court. KAT isn't a three point shooter. KP is.


It sounds like YOU haven't watched that much. Obviously KP offers much more in coming off of screens/moving off the ball. But considering that KAT is a 38% shooter combines with his ball handling ability and dominance in the post I don't think KP offers the upside KAT does in scoring.
RE: RE: Dan no malice intended but it just sounds  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:32 pm : link
In comment 13255234 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13255229 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


KAT isn't a three point shooter. KP is.



You're being deliberately obtuse here. We've told you several times that Towns' career 3% is actually slightly higher than KPs.

Greg his 3P % is higher but he takes less threes, and will throughout the season. He's not a three point shooter. I don't care what the stats say. Al Horford can make threes...is he a three point shooter??
RE: If you're argument  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 1:32 pm : link
In comment 13255235 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
is stats, ok, sure, KAT averages what...1 fucking point more per game? Ok sure Dan you win. KAT it is. I'm looking at the bigger picture in terms of overall scoring...anywhere on the floor. It's like Melo...Anthony can score form literally anywhere on the basketball floor. That's why many people have called him the best "scorer" not necessarily player obviously.


Yes, anywhere on the floor I'd 100% take KAT as the better scorer.
RE: Dan no malice intended but it just sounds  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:33 pm : link
In comment 13255229 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
like you have a bunch of stats and sheets in front of you and are comparing players and pointing to which one and saying "see - look!" Watching both players play...I'm arguing for Porzingis because of his pure shooting stroke and ability to score anywhere on the court. KAT isn't a three point shooter. KP is.


Towns has hit 37.8% from his shooting .8 attempts less than KP per game from 3. 51% from the field, 79% from the line. How is that not just being a homer/Knicks fan in suggesting the guy scoring less at a lesser % is somehow better at scoring? I'm a KP fanboy but he's not a better scorer than KAT at this point I'm sorry.
RE: RE: RE: Dan no malice intended but it just sounds  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 1:33 pm : link
In comment 13255238 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 13255234 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13255229 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


KAT isn't a three point shooter. KP is.



You're being deliberately obtuse here. We've told you several times that Towns' career 3% is actually slightly higher than KPs.


Greg his 3P % is higher but he takes less threes, and will throughout the season. He's not a three point shooter. I don't care what the stats say. Al Horford can make threes...is he a three point shooter??


KAT is a much more of a pure shooter than Horford could've ever hoped to be.
I'd love to see KAT's  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:34 pm : link
3P% after this full season. It will not be 38% I'll tell you that.
Dan  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:35 pm : link
if you're going to bring facts and stats which clear you've been doing that...KP averages 1.7 more threes per game than Towns. Not .8
It  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:36 pm : link
was 34% as a rookie, 37.8% this year

KP 33, 37.6.... one is buyable but the other isn't?
RE: Dan  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:38 pm : link
In comment 13255247 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
if you're going to bring facts and stats which clear you've been doing that...KP averages 1.7 more threes per game than Towns. Not .8


You are correct. 1.7 more 3's at a slightly lower %, and a career 53% shooter from the field vs. KP's 43. Towns is the better scorer. Could KP become a better scorer? Yes. Towns is better as of today.
Dan  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:38 pm : link
Towns attempted not even a three per game his rookie season.
RE: Dan  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13255255 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Towns attempted not even a three per game his rookie season.

Sorry...1 three per game
RE: Dan  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:40 pm : link
In comment 13255255 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Towns attempted not even a three per game his rookie season.


So he's shooting more at a higher %. I;m trying to understand... Justise Winslow is young so his shooting should improve but KAT's shooting from 3 couldn't possibly have improved in the off-season? He shot 34% from 3 last year, not exactly a crazy jump to 37.8
Towns  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:41 pm : link
isn't in the same sentence as KP is as a shooter.
All  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:41 pm : link
due respect. I give up. You say KP is the best young scorer in the NBA. I beg to differ.
RE: as evidence that my hopes for the Knicks are so diminished  
TyreeHelmet : 12/8/2016 1:42 pm : link
In comment 13255215 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I view it as a major plus for Phil that he hasn't pulled any crushing boners that will be an anchor around their necks for years and years like the Curry deal.

Noah might be the move that ends that, though.


I wish they at least lined up Noah's contract's length with Melo's. Should have offered a 2 or 3 year deal and walked if he didn't accept it. Noah wasn't making or breaking the Knicks season this year. Awful signing that will hurt big time in the years to come. Could possibly be the worst contract in the league right now.
I'm done arguing stats  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 1:43 pm : link
if you think Towns is in the same room as KP is as a shooter, or even 3 point shooter, not sure what you're watching. Just because Towns can make a three in every game he plays does not mean he's a 3 point shooter.
Dan I shouldn't have started a phil jackson love hate war  
djm : 12/8/2016 1:43 pm : link
if I implied that you rail on his every move that wasn't my intent. I know u praised some of the moves. You just hate em that's all ;) Free country
RE: RE: Dan  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 1:43 pm : link
In comment 13255260 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13255255 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


Towns attempted not even a three per game his rookie season.



So he's shooting more at a higher %. I;m trying to understand... Justise Winslow is young so his shooting should improve but KAT's shooting from 3 couldn't possibly have improved in the off-season? He shot 34% from 3 last year, not exactly a crazy jump to 37.8


Dan I think it's clear this dude can't see the light of day. He insists to use the eye test but that when that fails he goes to the stats but when that fails he goes back to his "eye test". Maybe it's time to test the eyes.
RE: Anytime  
Aspano! : 12/8/2016 1:44 pm : link
In comment 13255057 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
the first positive brought up is impact in a locker room for a guy with a big contract it's a bad sign. While I have zero doubt Noah is a good guy, fun guy etc there are plenty of good locker room players who make a whole lot less. Noah has to play significantly better over the course of his contract otherwise he was a total waste of money. His towel waving isn't worth 72 million.


Who brought up his locker room presence as his biggest impact?
RE: I'm done arguing stats  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 1:45 pm : link
In comment 13255266 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
if you think Towns is in the same room as KP is as a shooter, or even 3 point shooter, not sure what you're watching. Just because Towns can make a three in every game he plays does not mean he's a 3 point shooter.


What a joke. Scouts were praising Towns as one of the better shooters they've seen a while (not even for a big man, just as a shooter). I agree KP offers more overall as a shooter but Towns isn't far off. And KP isn't close to Towns around the basket.
RE: RE: Anytime  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:49 pm : link
In comment 13255273 Aspano! said:
Quote:
In comment 13255057 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


the first positive brought up is impact in a locker room for a guy with a big contract it's a bad sign. While I have zero doubt Noah is a good guy, fun guy etc there are plenty of good locker room players who make a whole lot less. Noah has to play significantly better over the course of his contract otherwise he was a total waste of money. His towel waving isn't worth 72 million.



Who brought up his locker room presence as his biggest impact?


100% not trying to rile this up again but I was referencing this

"Regarding
ryanmkeane : 11:52 am : link : reply
the Noah deal...sometimes players are worth more than just their stats. Noah is a leader and great for the locker room. These type of guys can change the culture around winning."
RE: Dan I shouldn't have started a phil jackson love hate war  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 1:50 pm : link
In comment 13255268 djm said:
Quote:
if I implied that you rail on his every move that wasn't my intent. I know u praised some of the moves. You just hate em that's all ;) Free country


I love the Knicks and want them to win a title. I not only think Phil Jackson has done a solid job, I'd prefer he stays vs. the alternative (namely Allan Houston somehow being deemed a good candidate for unknown reasons?). I'm not anti-Phil Jackson and I root for them to be good again.
RE: RE: as evidence that my hopes for the Knicks are so diminished  
Enzo : 12/8/2016 1:54 pm : link
In comment 13255265 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13255215 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


I view it as a major plus for Phil that he hasn't pulled any crushing boners that will be an anchor around their necks for years and years like the Curry deal.

Noah might be the move that ends that, though.



I wish they at least lined up Noah's contract's length with Melo's. Should have offered a 2 or 3 year deal and walked if he didn't accept it. Noah wasn't making or breaking the Knicks season this year. Awful signing that will hurt big time in the years to come. Could possibly be the worst contract in the league right now.

yeah - Noah was DYING to come play in NYC. You would think the Knicks could have at least made the 4th year a team option...or go for a partial guarantee, buyout...anything other than 4 guaranteed years. As for worst contract in the league, depending on how it plays out it's certainly in play. There can't be that many deals out there with more downside than this.
I only wish they had gone all-out rebuild  
Greg from LI : 12/8/2016 2:14 pm : link
Now that they finally have their own damned draft picks, they could build a young, talented nucleus. I'm 40 years old and I have never, ever seen a Knicks team with a young, talented nucleus. They've had one true superstar in my lifetime, Ewing, and he was in his late 20s by the time they gave him a decent supporting cast.
I love me some Dan  
dep026 : 12/8/2016 2:15 pm : link
but the Gobert contract is ridiculous for a one end type player. Dominant centers should become a thing of the past. You look at a guy like Gobert and the Jazz. Hill has some of the best advanced numbers in the league. Hayward is off to an awesome start. Once they get favors back with Hood, and Exum showing signs of progression, you would think this team should contend with the top teams? But they wont and may not even make the playoffs.

Gobert may be DPOY, but what is going to happen is that his contract along with the one Hayward and Favors are going to get is going to keep the Jazz in pergatory for years.
RE: I love me some Dan  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 2:23 pm : link
In comment 13255334 dep026 said:
Quote:
but the Gobert contract is ridiculous for a one end type player. Dominant centers should become a thing of the past. You look at a guy like Gobert and the Jazz. Hill has some of the best advanced numbers in the league. Hayward is off to an awesome start. Once they get favors back with Hood, and Exum showing signs of progression, you would think this team should contend with the top teams? But they wont and may not even make the playoffs.

Gobert may be DPOY, but what is going to happen is that his contract along with the one Hayward and Favors are going to get is going to keep the Jazz in pergatory for years.


Thing if the past? KAT and Embiid? Admittedly these guys are more skilled but if you saw Deandre Jordan with Gobert I don't think much changes.

They will certainly be a playoff team. I think they will deal of favors sooner or later. But your overall point stands, don't think they will ever land a star player in FA.
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