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NFT: Knicks Chat: Phil needs to shut up already

DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 9:43 am
Jackson criticized Anthony for being a ball stopper in an interview with CBS Sports Network Tuesday. The timing was curious since the Knicks had won four in a row before last night’s loss to Cleveland, and Anthony had been playing well.


“I don’t even know what was said to be honest with you,” Anthony said. “I just don’t even want to talk about that, what he’s talking about exactly. I want to stay away from that at this point. My focus is my teammates and winning. We’ve been playing great basketball and that’s the only thing I’m focused on.

“Whatever Phil said he said it. I have nothing to say about that.”

When Anthony was first asked about it, he uncharacteristically abruptly ended the interview.
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*switch  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 2:23 pm : link
..
With Gobert  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 2:25 pm : link
To be considered dominant you need to be a great all around basketball player. Gobert sucks offensively.
I just can't  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 2:28 pm : link
believe the word dominant and Gobert were used in the same sentence.
RE: With Gobert  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 2:28 pm : link
In comment 13255355 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
To be considered dominant you need to be a great all around basketball player. Gobert sucks offensively.


Gobert is a better jump shooter then Winslow lmao. Get a load of this guy
I guess it depends  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 2:28 pm : link
on your definition of "dominant." If dominating these days is getting a few blocks and grabbing 10+ boards per game...sure, that's dominant.
RE: I only wish they had gone all-out rebuild  
TyreeHelmet : 12/8/2016 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13255331 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Now that they finally have their own damned draft picks, they could build a young, talented nucleus. I'm 40 years old and I have never, ever seen a Knicks team with a young, talented nucleus. They've had one true superstar in my lifetime, Ewing, and he was in his late 20s by the time they gave him a decent supporting cast.


Totally agree. Even if they win 45 games and get in the playoffs as 6 or 7th seed, whats the point? It's also going to force their hand on Rose this off-season. You want players on the same arch as KP.

If they Knicks ever built a young core it would be great because they can always afford to pay their own guys and pay to get FAs to go over the cap. The luxury tax is meaningless to the Knicks.
RE: RE: With Gobert  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 2:29 pm : link
In comment 13255360 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:


Gobert is a better jump shooter then Winslow lmao. of this guy

Stop.
RE: I love me some Dan  
Deej : 12/8/2016 2:30 pm : link
In comment 13255334 dep026 said:
Quote:
but the Gobert contract is ridiculous for a one end type player. Dominant centers should become a thing of the past. You look at a guy like Gobert and the Jazz. Hill has some of the best advanced numbers in the league. Hayward is off to an awesome start. Once they get favors back with Hood, and Exum showing signs of progression, you would think this team should contend with the top teams? But they wont and may not even make the playoffs.

Gobert may be DPOY, but what is going to happen is that his contract along with the one Hayward and Favors are going to get is going to keep the Jazz in pergatory for years.


Jazz wont win a title, but not because of the contracts. Rather, they wont win because top 5 players dont want to play in Utah. How much Rudy makes really doesnt impact that.
I will give you this...  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 2:30 pm : link
Gobert is pretty efficient. He takes about 6 shots per game and makes over half of them.
There was never any chance that they would go  
Keith : 12/8/2016 2:31 pm : link
full rebuild because Melo was not going anywhere.
In 4 years when all of these guys are gone  
Keith : 12/8/2016 2:32 pm : link
Porzingis will be like 25. It's not like we are ruining his peak.
RE: I guess it depends  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 2:33 pm : link
In comment 13255363 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
on your definition of "dominant." If dominating these days is getting a few blocks and grabbing 10+ boards per game...sure, that's dominant.


He's a game changer defensively. Changes the entire outlook of your team on that end. He's a top 10 offensive rebounder and leads the league in FG%. Not a game changer on offense but good teams are rolling out shittier offensive centers in the league (Jordan, Noah, Capella, Adams, Johnson, Tristan thompson).
Someone compared Gobert  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 2:33 pm : link
to Hibbert. Aside from a few strong seasons, it's not like Hibbert lit up the NBA.
RE: RE: I guess it depends  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 2:35 pm : link
In comment 13255380 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13255363 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


on your definition of "dominant." If dominating these days is getting a few blocks and grabbing 10+ boards per game...sure, that's dominant.



He's a game changer defensively. Changes the entire outlook of your team on that end. He's a top 10 offensive rebounder and leads the league in FG%. Not a game changer on offense but good teams are rolling out shittier offensive centers in the league (Jordan, Noah, Capella, Adams, Johnson, Tristan thompson).

Yes, he's a game changer defensively. Definitely will give you that. But ff you're going to argue Winslow's shots per game, I can do the same for Gobert. It doesn't mean much to lead the league in FG% if you barely take 6 shots per game.
I admittedly  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 2:43 pm : link
don't really study up on advanced metrics of the NBA. So...if I'm missing something on Gobert I apologize. But I've watched him play this season and last...and I see a good center. Anything beyond that...I don't know. The Jazz paid him a shitload of money banking on the fact that he's going to get significantly better than he is now. Not sure that's gonna happen. He can't get that much better on offense simply because of his limited skills.
RE: I admittedly  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 2:58 pm : link
In comment 13255404 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
don't really study up on advanced metrics of the NBA. So...if I'm missing something on Gobert I apologize. But I've watched him play this season and last...and I see a good center. Anything beyond that...I don't know. The Jazz paid him a shitload of money banking on the fact that he's going to get significantly better than he is now. Not sure that's gonna happen. He can't get that much better on offense simply because of his limited skills.


Nope, they gave him money based off exactly what he's been providing. Gobert is better than all of the big men who got a lot of money this offseason (Howard, Whiteside, Horford, Adams). I think the Jazz are perfectly fine with the results.

Gobert leads the league in FG%? What do you not understand about FG% and shots per game? Gobert's Fg% is almost double what winslows is. DOUBLE. Winslow scores 11 Ppg on 14 shot attempts a game. Gobert scores 12.5 off of 6 shots a game. He averages MORE points attempting EIGHT less shots a game.

Fg% wasn't some advanced stat meant to boggle the minds of casual fans. It's pretty fucking simple, I'm not sure what's so confusing about it. John Hollinger didn't get hired by the Grizzlies because he invented field goal percentage.
RE: Someone compared Gobert  
DanMetroMan : 12/8/2016 3:01 pm : link
In comment 13255382 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
to Hibbert. Aside from a few strong seasons, it's not like Hibbert lit up the NBA.


The Hibbert reference was regarding his defensive impact on one season of the NBA (2014) because the article came following that season. They weren't comparing the players or careers.
I'm saying it's not that hard to make  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 3:01 pm : link
3 shots if you only take 6 per game. That was my point.
RE: I'm saying it's not that hard to make  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 3:02 pm : link
In comment 13255443 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
3 shots if you only take 6 per game. That was my point.

Most of them being right around the rim/dunks.
Well if you  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 3:06 pm : link
(or the Jazz for that matter) think Rudy Gobert is better than Whiteside, Howard, and Horford, I would have to completely and utterly disagree.
RE: RE: I'm saying it's not that hard to make  
TyreeHelmet : 12/8/2016 3:08 pm : link
In comment 13255446 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 13255443 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


3 shots if you only take 6 per game. That was my point.


Most of them being right around the rim/dunks.


For Noah this year it's very hard....
RE: Well if you  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 3:09 pm : link
In comment 13255451 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
(or the Jazz for that matter) think Rudy Gobert is better than Whiteside, Howard, and Horford, I would have to completely and utterly disagree.


Haha I'm perfectly fine with you being the opposite side of an argument with you. In fact I'd be worried if I agreed with you on any matter regarding basketball.
Understand  
ryanmkeane : 12/8/2016 3:10 pm : link
you guys love Gobert. But better than Whiteside, Howard, and Horford? No way.
RE: I'm saying it's not that hard to make  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 3:10 pm : link
In comment 13255443 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
3 shots if you only take 6 per game. That was my point.


It's also extremely hard to score only 11 points if you are attempting 14 shots a game. I really can't remember any other playing averaging less points than shot attempts per game.
RE: In 4 years when all of these guys are gone  
Enzo : 12/8/2016 3:11 pm : link
In comment 13255375 Keith said:
Quote:
Porzingis will be like 25. It's not like we are ruining his peak.

so instead of stocking up on lottery picks during that time and looking to add quality young players we'll be in 40-45 win no-mans land with a bunch of old guys? Success!
RE: Understand  
TyreeHelmet : 12/8/2016 3:12 pm : link
In comment 13255460 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
you guys love Gobert. But better than Whiteside, Howard, and Horford? No way.


The Celtics and Hawks would trade Howard or Horford for Gobert in a heartbeat.

Whiteside is close, but I would take Gobert. Better defensive player.
RE: RE: In 4 years when all of these guys are gone  
TyreeHelmet : 12/8/2016 3:13 pm : link
In comment 13255468 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13255375 Keith said:


Quote:


Porzingis will be like 25. It's not like we are ruining his peak.


so instead of stocking up on lottery picks during that time and looking to add quality young players we'll be in 40-45 win no-mans land with a bunch of old guys? Success!


Exactly. It takes time to build a young core. Look at the T-Wolves struggles this year. Look at New Orleans with Davis. They don't have put any young players ascending with Davis.
RE: RE: In 4 years when all of these guys are gone  
nygiants16 : 12/8/2016 3:15 pm : link
In comment 13255468 Enzo said:
Quote:
In comment 13255375 Keith said:


Quote:


Porzingis will be like 25. It's not like we are ruining his peak.


so instead of stocking up on lottery picks during that time and looking to add quality young players we'll be in 40-45 win no-mans land with a bunch of old guys? Success!


you were never going to get high picks with melo and kp on this team, never...

the key for the knicks is hitting on the picks they have and keep getting better as a team..

it is not like this team is an old team, they still have some young pieces..

yoi just have to hit on those draft picks, not all good players were drafted in the lottery
RE: Understand  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 3:16 pm : link
In comment 13255460 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
you guys love Gobert. But better than Whiteside, Howard, and Horford? No way.


Why do you think the Jazz have been so good this season? Hayward, Favors and Hill all have missed weeks of games so far this season. They are one of the top defensive teams in the league. Is that because of Boris Diaw and rodney hood???

On the flip side why do you think Boston has been underperforming? Their defense is atrocious. Just look at any time they play a physically gifted center. Horford struggles with keeping bigs under control. He's a subpar rebounder for a center and not a rim protector.

Atlantas defense sucks. Howard is pretty good but he's not nearly the rim protector he used to be.

Whiteside is also good but not a defensive force. He blocks a lot of shots but he misses rotations continuously thus why the heat also blow on defense.
RE: RE: RE: In 4 years when all of these guys are gone  
nygiants16 : 12/8/2016 3:17 pm : link
In comment 13255476 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13255468 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13255375 Keith said:


Quote:


Porzingis will be like 25. It's not like we are ruining his peak.


so instead of stocking up on lottery picks during that time and looking to add quality young players we'll be in 40-45 win no-mans land with a bunch of old guys? Success!



Exactly. It takes time to build a young core. Look at the T-Wolves struggles this year. Look at New Orleans with Davis. They don't have put any young players ascending with Davis.


there are different ways to build than just tanking fot lottery picks..

it takes a lot of luck and you have to hit on a later pick...

the warriors perfect example, they were not a championship contender until green became a star...

most of the top teams in the nba have 1 guy they draft and the rest of their team is free agents and late picks
RE: RE: RE: In 4 years when all of these guys are gone  
Enzo : 12/8/2016 3:19 pm : link
In comment 13255480 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13255468 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13255375 Keith said:


Quote:


Porzingis will be like 25. It's not like we are ruining his peak.


so instead of stocking up on lottery picks during that time and looking to add quality young players we'll be in 40-45 win no-mans land with a bunch of old guys? Success!



you were never going to get high picks with melo and kp on this team, never...

the key for the knicks is hitting on the picks they have and keep getting better as a team..

it is not like this team is an old team, they still have some young pieces..

yoi just have to hit on those draft picks, not all good players were drafted in the lottery

and they didn't have to be married to Melo and held hostage by his no-trade. There was another path. I love Melo and think he's a great player, but he's not good enough for him to have that much influence over the direction of your team.
if melo did not have a no trade  
nygiants16 : 12/8/2016 3:20 pm : link
i think he would of been traded after the tank year for all those picks boston accumulated...

the fact is he has that no trade, so you have to adapt and go in a different direction to keep building
Phil is who he has always been  
Ten Ton Hammer : 12/8/2016 3:24 pm : link
Obviously there's no shot of him changing his spots. No sense in shaking a fist about him talking. You knew what he was when you hired him.
RE: Understand  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 3:28 pm : link
In comment 13255460 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
you guys love Gobert. But better than Whiteside, Howard, and Horford? No way.


ESPN rank (before the start of the season) has Gobert ranked as the 37th best player in the NBA. 1 spot behind Adams, 2 behind Marc Gasol, 3 behind KP, and 4 behind Whiteside. Oh, and he's ranked 8 spots ahead of Dwight Howard.

Throw in him improving this season (averaging 2 Ppg and 10% higher FG % compared to last year) I don't see how it's unfathomable to you that pretty much anyone would take him over those guys. He's 6 years younger than Horford, 7 years younger than D12 and 4 years younger than Whiteside.

You wanna give Winslow the benefit of beocming something more than the worst offensive player in the NBA due to age then I don't see why the same is not given to Gobert, especially considering centers often peak in their mid to late 20s.
It's also good to create a winning culture  
Keith : 12/8/2016 3:29 pm : link
so that when these guys do leave, we are a more enticing place to play. There's a balance. Phil has been amazing, albeit not perfect.
RE: RE: RE: RE: In 4 years when all of these guys are gone  
TyreeHelmet : 12/8/2016 3:30 pm : link
In comment 13255484 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13255476 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


In comment 13255468 Enzo said:


Quote:


In comment 13255375 Keith said:


Quote:


Porzingis will be like 25. It's not like we are ruining his peak.


so instead of stocking up on lottery picks during that time and looking to add quality young players we'll be in 40-45 win no-mans land with a bunch of old guys? Success!



Exactly. It takes time to build a young core. Look at the T-Wolves struggles this year. Look at New Orleans with Davis. They don't have put any young players ascending with Davis.



there are different ways to build than just tanking fot lottery picks..

it takes a lot of luck and you have to hit on a later pick...

the warriors perfect example, they were not a championship contender until green became a star...

most of the top teams in the nba have 1 guy they draft and the rest of their team is free agents and late picks


Warriors drafted Curry, Thompson, Barnes all in the top 10. They grew together. Traded Ellis for Bogut and signed Iggy.

You obviously need a combo of picks, trades and FAs but I wish the Knicks would have used these years to put some young players to grow around KP and get some top 10 picks. Only current young piece around him is Willy who is probably a backup big.

Once they signed Melo they were locked in.
A few things...  
EricNY33 : 12/8/2016 3:32 pm : link
1) The Noah signing was horrible. It has been horrible the entire time. Stop defending it.

2) Rudy Gobert is 24. Joakim Noah is 31. The contracts aren't comparable based on that factor alone.

3) Towns is a better scorer than Porzingis. In fact, he's a better player, period. That's not a bad thing. It's just the truth.
RE: if melo did not have a no trade  
Enzo : 12/8/2016 3:35 pm : link
In comment 13255488 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
i think he would of been traded after the tank year for all those picks boston accumulated...

the fact is he has that no trade, so you have to adapt and go in a different direction to keep building

keeping Melo and looking to build a winning around him and KP isn't even the worst thing in the world. Dolan dumped a billion dollars into MSG not that long ago and if wants a playoff team right away that's fine IMO. But he lost me with the Rose/Noah moves (and other smaller moves). We don't even have max cap space this coming summer. If Rose/Jennings leave, who's playing PG? If Melo leaves as a free agent in 2018 the whole thing was a giant waste of time and resources. We're in a situation here we might be LUCKY if he gets annoyed and tries to force his way out before he can leave on his own.
first off they signed melo before kp  
nygiants16 : 12/8/2016 3:35 pm : link
after that they were never going to tank because they would never be bad enough..

you could not tank after you drafted kp because you did not have a pick therefore you had to try and make the playoffs..

even if they made no moves the team would of at best gotten a lovk between 10-14...

so you added rose on a show me deal and hoped the 3 gelled on the court...now you add to that core with draft picks and small free agent pock ups..

as for the warriors even with curry thompson and barnes they did not become a championship contender until green became a star and they got guys like bogut and iguodola...

so again you have to hit on a high pick then you got to get lucky with free agency trades and lower picks, which now the knicks have to do
i would be shocked if rose stays healthy he is not resigned  
nygiants16 : 12/8/2016 3:37 pm : link
..
RE: i would be shocked if rose stays healthy he is not resigned  
Deej : 12/8/2016 3:48 pm : link
In comment 13255527 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..


Me too.
RE: i would be shocked if rose stays healthy he is not resigned  
Keith : 12/8/2016 3:49 pm : link
In comment 13255527 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..

agreed
RE: i would be shocked if rose stays healthy he is not resigned  
Enzo : 12/8/2016 3:51 pm : link
In comment 13255527 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
..

Phil doing something dumb like that? Not shocking at all...
LOL  
Keith : 12/8/2016 3:52 pm : link
True. We need to get that stud Jerian Grant back!
Towns is a better player than KP  
Deej : 12/8/2016 3:59 pm : link
Maybe this is just the homer in me, but I think KP might have that quality that you need in a top dog, and KAT may lack it. We see KP's work ethic and drive. Now KAT didnt luck into his success, but every time I see a Wolves game the announcers are talking about whether KAT is an alpha or whether he's temperamentally disposed to be the 2nd best player.

I do know this -- KP is a guy who in his prime will want or demand the last shot in the big game.

And this: scoring is becoming a little underrated (and Im a big proponent of advanced stats). And I think at his peak KP will be a better tough bucket scorer. There is scoring in regular season games in the first 43 minutes, and then there is last 5 minute and playoff scoring. We havent seen either of these guys in the playoffs. The game is so much harder there.
Rose  
TyreeHelmet : 12/8/2016 3:59 pm : link
Has played well and it's nice to finally see a point guard who can penetrate the paint. But for the love of god please don't sign him to a long term deal. The Noah deal is bad enough. If he's the best option at PG, offer him a big money deal for 1 or max 2 years. He doesn't take it, then fine let someone else sign him. But you can't under any circumstances have close to half your cap tied up between Rose and Noah for the next 3 years!
RE: LOL  
Enzo : 12/8/2016 4:00 pm : link
In comment 13255558 Keith said:
Quote:
True. We need to get that stud Jerian Grant back!

keep making stuff up! Tell us more about all of Jennings' contract offers...
I suspect  
Enzo : 12/8/2016 4:02 pm : link
Rose is going to chase every last dollar on the free agent market (which is his right) - especially after seeing what other guys (Lillard, etc.) have gotten or are going to get. The problem is he's too stupid too realize he's not in their class anymore.
RE: Towns is a better player than KP  
giantsfan44ab : 12/8/2016 4:04 pm : link
In comment 13255569 Deej said:
Quote:
Maybe this is just the homer in me, but I think KP might have that quality that you need in a top dog, and KAT may lack it. We see KP's work ethic and drive. Now KAT didnt luck into his success, but every time I see a Wolves game the announcers are talking about whether KAT is an alpha or whether he's temperamentally disposed to be the 2nd best player.

I do know this -- KP is a guy who in his prime will want or demand the last shot in the big game.

And this: scoring is becoming a little underrated (and Im a big proponent of advanced stats). And I think at his peak KP will be a better tough bucket scorer. There is scoring in regular season games in the first 43 minutes, and then there is last 5 minute and playoff scoring. We havent seen either of these guys in the playoffs. The game is so much harder there.


I think thats tough to put on KAT. KAT is and is expected to be an alpha male. He has no Melo or even Rose. Wiggins doesnt exactly make everyone around him better.
Its actually  
Keith : 12/8/2016 4:05 pm : link
Too stupid to realize, but you probably knew that.
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