JPP's future

didn't really go out on a limb with that quote, isn't every soon to be free Agent's future up in the air outside of franchise QB's?

In any case, I think he's a Giant next year whether its a longterm deal or the tag. We can afford a higher cap hit next season if we need to tag him, but I don't think it will come to that. Just a gut feeling.

will probably be the most important decision of the offseason.

with other the guys they need to pay.

out a long term deal with the Giants..Usually, they don't want to be bothered with such matters, given their focus is in the field and in the classroom..

No excuses now..If they WANT to work out a long term deal, it should be rather 'easy' to do so, imo

playing under the franchise tag this year.

In comment 13255091 PEEJ said:

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playing under the franchise tag this year.

Are you saying this because you think that he'll get signed to a long term deal or because you don't think he'll play at all if they use the tag on him again?

No way the Giants or JPP want to see him anywhere else.

They will agree on a very generous but fair deal to keep JPP in blue.

In comment 13255104 T-Bone said:

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In comment 13255091 PEEJ said: Quote: playing under the franchise tag this year. Are you saying this because you think that he'll get signed to a long term deal or because you don't think he'll play at all if they use the tag on him again?

No, the article said he is playing under the franchise tag this season. He is not. He signed a one year contract.

In comment 13255077 ZogZerg said:

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with other the guys they need to pay.

I think he should be their top priority and fit other guys in after they pay him.

In comment 13255104 T-Bone said:

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In comment 13255091 PEEJ said: Quote: playing under the franchise tag this year. Are you saying this because you think that he'll get signed to a long term deal or because you don't think he'll play at all if they use the tag on him again?

He's saying it because the OP's quote is wrong. JPP is not playing 2016 under the franchise tag. He signed a 1 yr deal.

This year like he was a year and a half ago.. only this time he will sign the long term offer before celebrating independence day.

In comment 13255116 section125 said:

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In comment 13255104 T-Bone said: Quote: In comment 13255091 PEEJ said: Quote: playing under the franchise tag this year. Are you saying this because you think that he'll get signed to a long term deal or because you don't think he'll play at all if they use the tag on him again? No, the article said he is playing under the franchise tag this season. He is not. He signed a one year contract.

Good catch. Totally missed that and both you and PEEJ are correct.

will have money to play with because it's pretty obvious that Cruz will not be back, or at the very least, not without a significant paycut (he's something like a $9.4 million cap hit in 2017). I think JPP will end up working out a deal with the Giants to remain here, but I don't see him getting Vernon money, at least not from the Giants.

than Vernon did prior to Vernon signing his contract.
He's also older than Vernon.

Also, any updates on the suit with ESPN?
He was due to make 30-40 million.

The Giants should ask him to take a major pay cut.

How common are complications from the kind of surgery JPP just had? I honestly don't know and wonder if the type of surgery he just had could diminish his ability at all. I love JPP and would like to keep him. I would just prefer the Giants not make a deal and then JPP is unable to perform at the level that he has been playing prior to the injury.

In comment 13255142 jpennyva said:

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How common are complications from the kind of surgery JPP just had? I honestly don't know and wonder if the type of surgery he just had could diminish his ability at all. I love JPP and would like to keep him. I would just prefer the Giants not make a deal and then JPP is unable to perform at the level that he has been playing prior to the injury.

Very uncommon unless you rush back, but even then they just have to do the surgery over. Once healed he should never have a problem with it again. Literally one of the easiest surgeries to go through and recover from as far as sports goes.

In comment 13255104 T-Bone said:

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In comment 13255091 PEEJ said: Quote: playing under the franchise tag this year. Are you saying this because you think that he'll get signed to a long term deal or because you don't think he'll play at all if they use the tag on him again?

He is saying that because he signed a 1 year deal and was franchise tagged the year before, not this year. He will get tagged this spring unless he takes a home town discount. Once he gets tagged it will help knowing last time around he nearly ruined his opportunity by not agreeing to the long term offer. He'll be a Giant for a while I think.

Options are either let him go in FA, tag him and keep him at least a year, or work out a long term contract.

If they can't agree on an extension, I don't think there's any way they don't tag him, so he's here at least one more season.

come to a long-term deal, front-loaded, and it's for less than Vernon and less than JPP could possibly get elsewhere.

It shouldn't and won't always come down to this in life, but JPP has made over 35M just on his football contracts, he's not playing or negotiating for his livelihood at this point like Vernon or Snacks or other players who didn't have a pre-CBA 1st round pick contract plus two years after that getting paid well.

He can afford to be selective and from all reports I've heard and read he enjoys the Giants and while 99% of players it's all about money, I believe JPP is right now in the 1%. Like Brady. I don't think the chasm can be huge between what others might offer JPP and where he settles with the Giants, but he'll accept less to stay here IMO.

is that they have to account for the tag on the cap and thus it limits their ability to sign FAs. It benefits both side to agree to a contract sooner rather than later

JPP went out on a high. early on in the season, he was a JAG (maybe a little more, but not franchise worthy). Then he had a very good streak for a few games, albeit lackluster opponents. Now he's done for the season before it's known whether he can sustain that streak.

He's shown the hand is NOT an issue.



The Giants, meanwhile, will be left with a bunch of games against good teams and a bunch of replacements that are nothing to write home about. It'll be glaringly obvious that there's a hole there, making JPP look all the more attractive in retrospect.

Teams will be lining up to show him the money. The Giants will be one of them. Whether they're willing to continue placing bids past a certain (likely outrageous) point remains to be seen. Or they can franchise. Would rather work out a long term deal at a higher price than do the franchise if they want to keep him.

At very least under a franchise tag if not under a longer term contract. The Giants have the money and are in win now mode. They can mortgage the future to make it happen now if they want. The Giants know far to well what happens when you don't have a defense.

I'd rather target Eric Berry in FA so he can be Earl Thomas to Landon Collins's Kam Chancellor.

We've got two young, cost controlled guys at DE in Okwara and Odi that could fill JPP's role.

JPP's played well this year...certainly better than I thought he would...but I hope the Giants don't overreact to big games against Chicago and Cleveland.

"6 of his 7 sacks came against..:".

He'll be evaluated on the 800+ plays this season and not downgraded by sacks vs 2 teams.

The article offers nothing.

He's been outstanding. If the hand isnt considered an injury risk he gets a massive deal.

In comment 13255198 Go Terps said:

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I'd rather target Eric Berry in FA so he can be Earl Thomas to Landon Collins's Kam Chancellor. We've got two young, cost controlled guys at DE in Okwara and Odi that could fill JPP's role. JPP's played well this year...certainly better than I thought he would...but I hope the Giants don't overreact to big games against Chicago and Cleveland.

They could tab him with the Franchise tag and still go after Berry. Of course, Berry could also get the Franchise tag from the Chiefs and ruin that whole thing.

to sign a deal sooner. He's IR for the rest of the year, so there's no risk of career ending injury derailing him, sans another bit of freak stupidity. The only leverage the Giants has is the tag, and then it's laugh all the way to the bank for JPP.

Unless he has a real generous side to him, he's not signing here for much less than he can get on the open market, and it's a pretty safe bet to think he can get a lot on the market.

The 2 young guys can fill JPPs role?

Is it that easy?

Why not find a cost controlled young guy to fill Berry's role?

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The Giants, meanwhile, will be left with a bunch of games against good teams and a bunch of replacements that are nothing to write home about. It'll be glaringly obvious that there's a hole there, making JPP look all the more attractive in retrospect.

You don't know that..You have zero idea how JPP's replacements will rise (or not rise) to the occasion..There are tons of examples of bench players or limited snaps players rising to the occasion..Nada..None of us do..you speak/write with definitiveness and you haven't a clue-yet..

I realize that to a point, after your stance on JPP over the last year and a half, you are going to go down with the ship, but come on.

You were telling us all last season that Wynn and George Selvie were going to fill JPP's shoes. How did that work out? Okwara has showed alittle something in limited snaps, I'll give you that, but OO has shown nothing in 2 seasons and that's when healthy, which isnt often. Wynn is JAG.

You can cherry pick all you want the competition for JPP but if it is a regular season game on an NFL schedule, it's an important performance.

As for Eric Berry, who wouldnt love to have him? Keep in mind it's always going to be more expensive to buy someone else's free agent than to keep your own. What is Eric Berry going to command on the open market? I also have a feeling the organization really likes DT given the fact he won a starting job in camp as a rookie. That counts for alot.

In comment 13255217 KWALL2 said:

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The 2 young guys can fill JPPs role? Is it that easy? Why not find a cost controlled young guy to fill Berry's role?

I'm not suggesting it's easy, I'm saying the guys are already in place. I also think Berry is better at his position than JPP is at his.

But Matt's right, Berry probably gets franchised at minimum by KC.

KWALL...It's no secret I don't think JPP is as good as you think he is. Put simply I think we're already vastly overpaying one DE I'm not gonna vote for overpaying another.

Sad to say, but his cancer could come out of remission at any time..Unfortunately, he's a health risk..As great as he is, I would never spend huge guaranteed money on the guy

Whiffed on that article.
His carer is not in jeopardy, he would love to get OV money(OV may not even get OV money), but he will give NYFG the HT discount for being loyal to him during the 7/4 thing.

on this one......

He played well against the run, but the sacks were not there until Chicago/Cleveland.....just like all the sacks in meaningless games, against poor competition, at the end of the 2014 season.....and this is another, in a string of injuries, that this guy has had.....

He certainly is not worth Vernon money(neither is Vernon, but that was the going rate at the time)......and I don't think, outside of Tom Brady, that any athlete gives a team a home discount on a major contract.....

If somebody approaches him, I think he is gone....so if the Giants want to retain him, it will have to be with the tag.....and he gets overpaid for another year....

in the other safeties on the roster including Thompson and Berhe (even Adams) than I do with Okwara, Odi, and Wynn.

If I could only add Berry or JPP this off-season it's a no-brainer.

I do think all the people in the "let JPP walk" camp will have all the evidence they need the next 4 weeks to stick with that belief or change their minds.

that would take over 50% of our available cap space. Say what you will about our front office but the Giants aren't going to stand in the way of him making big $$$. That's not how they do business.

He's done the "prove it" part. Either they're convinced now or they never will be.

The tag is an absolute last resort - and would create serious acrimony between org and player. A disinterested or otherwise jaded JPP at $16M isn't a good business move.

In comment 13255210 fkap said:

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to sign a deal sooner. He's IR for the rest of the year, so there's no risk of career ending injury derailing him, sans another bit of freak stupidity. The only leverage the Giants has is the tag, and then it's laugh all the way to the bank for JPP. Unless he has a real generous side to him, he's not signing here for much less than he can get on the open market, and it's a pretty safe bet to think he can get a lot on the market.

Benefit or no benefit, the Giants and JPP have the luxury of much time on their sides to work out a deal..Generally, when the season's over, all the players want to do for a while is crash, heal their wounds and then address possible FA..The huge amount of time they have now increases the odds exponentially to work out a long term deal, imo..

They may not and he may test the waters anyway, but the odds, imho, are much in the Giants and JPP's favor that they can give and take to a final deal with all the time at theri disposal, imv

JPP and Vernon weren't playing an overwhelming percentage of snaps (at one point it was mid 90 percent) because the backups are so stellar.

I'm making a prediction, not stating facts, on whether the backups are going to rise to the occasion. I don't know it's going to happen, but if I have to place a bet (even if it's a hypothetical bet that won't cost me a dime), I bet we're going to have a huge hole where JPP used to be.

In comment 13255253 fkap said:

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JPP and Vernon weren't playing an overwhelming percentage of snaps (at one point it was mid 90 percent) because the backups are so stellar. I'm making a prediction, not stating facts, on whether the backups are going to rise to the occasion. I don't know it's going to happen, but if I have to place a bet (even if it's a hypothetical bet that won't cost me a dime), I bet we're going to have a huge hole where JPP used to be.

Well, you could turn out to be spot on here, but I'm not making any pronouncements until, when and if, the kids rise (or sink) to the occasion

What have you seen from these DEs? They haven't shown much at all.

Saying the replacement is already in place is a hopefully prayer at this point. We'll see. If they step up then I'm on board with using he cash on another position.

Also, Vernon is not a bad contract. He's an impact player and another guy you can't simply replace with any guy on the bench.

In comment 13255257 KWALL2 said:

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What have you seen from these DEs? They haven't shown much at all. Saying the replacement is already in place is a hopefully prayer at this point. We'll see. If they step up then I'm on board with using he cash on another position. Also, Vernon is not a bad contract. He's an impact player and another guy you can't simply replace with any guy on the bench.

Terps, this is a fair post by KWALL

from Doomster.

I would love to know what this board would have been like a couple of weeks ago if the D didnt step up against Cleveland after the O and special teams was nothing to write home about.

There are no meaningless games in the NFL until you're eliminated from the playoffs.

I also don't give a sh*t how many years ago it was, 2011 was the best season by any NYG defensive player not named Taylor or Strahan and it directly lead to a SB title.

JPP is still the best 2-way 4-3 DE after J.J. Watt.

you've been around long enough to know that contracts are a game of chicken. Right now, there's no reason for either side to do much more than explore what the other side is going to want. JPP will wait to see what the market is shaking out to be, and then hit the Giants up for what he thinks he can get, plus a little so he has room to retreat. The Giants will wait out his rehab, see what the market is going to be, and then try to lowball him. they'll both then stand toe to toe and see who blinks first.

Him sitting on a couch, or rehabbing, has little to do with the timeline of events. Deals used to get done on a regular basis during the season. Players have figured out it's best to wait it out and play the game of chicken. and the agent does all the work.

We figure to probably draft another DE, and sign a free agent if the money is right.

If we're using Vernon's contract as the measuring stick, I don't think either guy (Vernon or JPP) is worth that kind of cash. For that kind of contract I want a guy that wrecks games. If either of those guys wrecked games then LaDarius Green would not have been able to gash us last week because Pittsburgh would have had no choice but to keep him in to block.

They're good players, but they don't change the way opponents play us. They're not keeping offensive coordinators up at night the way Miller, Mack, Watt, or Houston do.

You're the guy who said JPP gets manhandled by TEs in the run game and dioes nothing as a pass rusher except useless QB pressures. That was 2 weeks ago.

Yesterday you posted we can't make the playoffs now that "we lost JPP".

Amazing consistency there.

In comment 13255281 fkap said:

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you've been around long enough to know that contracts are a game of chicken. Right now, there's no reason for either side to do much more than explore what the other side is going to want. JPP will wait to see what the market is shaking out to be, and then hit the Giants up for what he thinks he can get, plus a little so he has room to retreat. The Giants will wait out his rehab, see what the market is going to be, and then try to lowball him. they'll both then stand toe to toe and see who blinks first. Him sitting on a couch, or rehabbing, has little to do with the timeline of events. Deals used to get done on a regular basis during the season. Players have figured out it's best to wait it out and play the game of chicken. and the agent does all the work.

Ok, we can disagree on the time element equation here

In comment 13255286 KWALL2 said:

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You're the guy who said JPP gets manhandled by TEs in the run game and dioes nothing as a pass rusher except useless QB pressures. That was 2 weeks ago. Yesterday you posted we can't make the playoffs now that "we lost JPP". Amazing consistency there.

Terps said that? I don't think so..Is there a specific link, Kev?

In comment 13255285 Go Terps said:

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We figure to probably draft another DE, and sign a free agent if the money is right. If we're using Vernon's contract as the measuring stick, I don't think either guy (Vernon or JPP) is worth that kind of cash. For that kind of contract I want a guy that wrecks games. If either of those guys wrecked games then LaDarius Green would not have been able to gash us last week because Pittsburgh would have had no choice but to keep him in to block. They're good players, but they don't change the way opponents play us. They're not keeping offensive coordinators up at night the way Miller, Mack, Watt, or Houston do.

Just curious here. You seem to downplay how effective OV and JPP are on the field. If they're not truly elite, who are these top 5 4-3 DE's ahead of them?

Do not get there on every play.

Who wrecks gsmes in the NFL right now?

Mack? Miller? They play 1000-1200 snaps, rights? How many times do they fail to get pressure?

Your expectations are not reasonable. The one place to pay big money is on guys who can get pressure. Vernon does that and plays the run well. Ditto for JPP. You can't replace these guys with any guy on the roster. They're the toughest guys to find.

That was to Doomster