for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Raanta vs. Lundqvist

blueblood'11 : 12/9/2016 7:08 am
Let me preface this by saying I love Hank. He's been the heart and soul when there wasn't much around him and still is playing at a high level. I know in the past some have argued he's not what he once was. When Cam took over for him when he was injured some said they should trade Hank and save the money after Cam played as well as he did.

I know Raanta has only a small sample size this year but if trends are any indication he will play a lot more then he did last year. And at the moment whenever he does play he plays very well. He doesn't seem to give up the type of goals that make you scratch your head and say to yourself he should have made that save.

Hank is playing well but does anyone out there think that maybe Raanta is actually playing consistently better and would like to see him play even more? I'm kind of intrigued by the way he seems so in control and calm in the net. He seems to be reading the play right now better then Hank. Not that Hank isn't but that Raanta is doing it even better. Should AV consider playing Raanta more or am I overreacting.



Hank's problem now is focus  
Deej : 12/9/2016 8:03 am : link
he said it himself. Give him as many games as necessary to keep him focused but physically fresh. Hank is the workhorse and will get every playoff start. Whether you like it or not (I like it). So your plans should be based on what is best for the King.
When they played the Islanders...  
mvftw : 12/9/2016 8:57 am : link
Hank was the 3rd best goalie in the building...I'm a Hank fan...but he's on the downside of his career...
Raanta was clearly good last night  
bigbluehoya : 12/9/2016 9:00 am : link
But he got a pretty good performancd from the team defense in front of him. Despite getting totally buried for the better part of the 2nd period, the shot suppression was really good. Raanta faced 18 SOG.

Granted, WPG is the worst shot generating team in the league this year, but 18 is over 9 shots below their average.

From what I've seen so far  
Gman11 : 12/9/2016 9:06 am : link
this season Raanta has been at least the equal or even better goalie. Lundqvist used to steal games, but he hasn't done that in a while.
The King is a slow starter  
Jay in Toronto : 12/9/2016 9:11 am : link
(except last year and then he became less spectacular as the season went on)

I think there is a sensible argument to giving Raanta more starts.

Another reason: exposure demonstrating consistency (like Talbot when Lundqvist was hurt) could give us an excellent trade chip (like Cam) assuming we don't lose him first in the expansion draft.
I am sure it has been discussed multiple times so my apologies...  
Drewcon40 : 12/9/2016 9:31 am : link
...for any potential redundancy.

I'll try to avoid the tl;dr rule.

Yes Henrik is a slow starter which is backed by his numbers in the past. However this year, my non-Corsi/Fenwick eyes tell me he is really off. I notice that when he goes down for a shot (specifically in situations with a live puck near his goal), he has some difficulty getting back up in position. Notably he slides out of the net a lot.

Also, I don't remember Lundqvist so visibly frustrated as he has been recently. I am not just talking about goals, there have been shots that have gone passed him wide and I noticed some exasperation on a few occasions. Also even in plays where he is able to cover the puck, He slams his stick or is clearly upset under his mask.

After this season, we have him signed with the no move clause for 4 more years. At an 8.5 cap hit, what are our options. He is still an above average goalie and flashes brilliance at times. He certainly seems to have slipped.
RE: From what I've seen so far  
arcarsenal : 12/9/2016 9:37 am : link
In comment 13256362 Gman11 said:
Quote:
this season Raanta has been at least the equal or even better goalie. Lundqvist used to steal games, but he hasn't done that in a while.


Did you miss the 40 save performance against the Flyers a couple weeks ago?
RE: RE: From what I've seen so far  
Gman11 : 12/9/2016 10:10 am : link
In comment 13256394 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13256362 Gman11 said:


Quote:


this season Raanta has been at least the equal or even better goalie. Lundqvist used to steal games, but he hasn't done that in a while.



Did you miss the 40 save performance against the Flyers a couple weeks ago?

As a matter of fact, I did.
I saw it  
blueblood'11 : 12/9/2016 10:13 am : link
But Hank has been inconsistent. He makes the great save and for some reason he has let in a lot of soft goals. Lack of focus seems to be his problem as he has said. But I don't doubt when the playoffs come along he'll be at his best. But for now he's been up and down.
What did the Rangers have two back up goalies?  
Carl in CT : 12/9/2016 11:08 am : link
Cause there is no way an Icehole is better than the King!
I do think Hank needs to play better.  
arcarsenal : 12/9/2016 11:15 am : link
But I feel like we've had this discussion around this time of year for the past handful of seasons. AV's first year, we had a stretch in October/November where we were getting blown out. I remember a few really ugly games. He got off to a tough start in 2014 as well.

Hank is 34.. he still has a lot of good goaltending in him.
Sometimes a change of scenery  
Giants2012 : 12/9/2016 11:18 am : link
awakens the fire.

The star goalie is also a star celebrity in NY.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2016 11:54 am : link
I feel like we have these threads every year. I'm almost certain we had it during 13/14 prior to Henrik's extension.

I think the sample size is too small to assert Lundqvist is in decline with confidence. I do want Raanta getting ~30 starts regardless. Hank wore down last season.
I am all for giving Raanta some more consistent work now  
Matt M. : 12/9/2016 12:00 pm : link
But, there is no way I want anyone other than Lundqvist in net for the playoffs.
RE: .....  
arcarsenal : 12/9/2016 12:05 pm : link
In comment 13256674 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I feel like we have these threads every year. I'm almost certain we had it during 13/14 prior to Henrik's extension.

I think the sample size is too small to assert Lundqvist is in decline with confidence. I do want Raanta getting ~30 starts regardless. Hank wore down last season.


I basically said the same. We definitely have had similar discussions this time of year on multiple occasions in the last few seasons.
It's inevitable with an aging great player  
Greg from LI : 12/9/2016 12:07 pm : link
People will always be hypersensitive to what looks like an abrupt decline. People used to do it with Mariano Rivera every year in his last 5 or 6 seasons.
Remember when they should've traded Hank  
Davisian : 12/9/2016 12:11 pm : link
Because Prince Cam was the next Ken Dryden?
Its almost as if  
EliIsEliteX2 : 12/9/2016 12:14 pm : link
The Rangers D plays a more lax style of defense when Hank is in net. I think they rely on him to bail them out in certain situations. In the past, he usually came up with that big bail out save after a defensive breakdown. These days he's not making those saves.

When Raanta or even Cam Talbot was in net it seemed as though the defense tightened up a bit which helped both backups.

Either way you still gotta stick with Hank until its obvious that he's finished.
.  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2016 12:20 pm : link
Sorry, arc, I only read the first few posts before responding. Yeah, I'm not going to be totally dismissive since I've been on the other side of the argument (arguing a player is in decline) and he hasn't been great this year. I think people making definitive statements about Hank's trajectory over the next 3-5 years are fooling themselves.
RE: .  
arcarsenal : 12/9/2016 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13256741 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Sorry, arc, I only read the first few posts before responding. Yeah, I'm not going to be totally dismissive since I've been on the other side of the argument (arguing a player is in decline) and he hasn't been great this year. I think people making definitive statements about Hank's trajectory over the next 3-5 years are fooling themselves.


I agree
Raanta may be back in tonight  
Drewcon40 : 12/9/2016 12:49 pm : link
Amanda Borges ‏@aborgesNYR 11m11 minutes ago Chicago, IL
Clendening, Vesey & Henrik on the ice for skate. Appears Raanta will get the start tonight with Lundqvist the only goalie skating. #NYR
Amanda Borges ‏@aborgesNYR - ( New Window )
Can we talk about how hot Amanda Borges is btw?  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2016 12:53 pm : link
.
RE: Can we talk about how hot Amanda Borges is btw?  
Drewcon40 : 12/9/2016 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13256779 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
.


Enough Raanta/Lundqvist

Alyonka Larionov vs Amanda Borges

Shannon Hogan as guest referee.
RE: Can we talk about how hot Amanda Borges is btw?  
arcarsenal : 12/9/2016 1:02 pm : link
In comment 13256779 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
.


Emma Kaptein (Giants girl) is hotter.

Borges is pretty hot too, though.
RE: Remember when they should've traded Hank  
Vanzetti : 12/9/2016 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13256718 Davisian said:
Quote:
Because Prince Cam was the next Ken Dryden?


Henrik has a NMC on the contract he signed in December 2013. Cam Talbot had started 12 games at that point, so I highly doubt many people were demanding Lundquist be traded. And after signing the contract, he could not be traded without his consent--which obviously was not happening.

However, in hindsight, it clearly would have been the right move to trade Lundquist then. His value was very high and he would have brought back a good return. Since the Rangers did not win a cup, having Talbot would have made little difference--unless you think losing to the Kings in 5 rather than 4 was significant.

Right now, with the goalies they have in the system they have little need for Henrik, whose contract is already an albatross and will likely only become worse. I'm betting they buy him out after 2018 season.

Girardi, Staal and Lundquist were all bad contracts. But Sather didn't care because he knew he was stepping down and it would be somebody else's headache.

RE: RE: Can we talk about how hot Amanda Borges is btw?  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2016 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13256795 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 13256779 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


.



Emma Kaptein (Giants girl) is hotter.

Borges is pretty hot too, though.


I''m not a big fan of her face. Amanda has a cute girl next door look to her.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2016 3:54 pm : link
Vanzetti, I totally disagree Lundqvist was a bad contract. Rangers should have won a Cup with him already - maybe you can argue he's overpaid by 1 or 2 million, but the failures of the team are because of the other bad deals.
whenever I have a Lundqvist conversation with someone  
Drewcon40 : 12/9/2016 4:13 pm : link
I always need to clarify that not liking the cap hit that Lundqvist is against the Rangers cap does not necessarily mean thinking Lundqvist is a poor goaltender. **I was surprised to learn Dallas actually spends more combined on the goalie position as Lethonen and Niemi are a combined 10.4 million. (Henrik and Raanta combine for 9.5 million)

Henrik Lundqvist around 11 percent cap space alone. I would think statistically Devan Dubnyk is the hot goalie this year at 4.3 as a comparable.

Like Brett mentions, coming up short in 2014 - 2015 makes this contract less tolerable because I feel if we allocated funds a bit differently, we would be a contender.
^^sorry gents  
Drewcon40 : 12/9/2016 4:16 pm : link
my post above

clarification - Dubnyk is at 4.3 million at 5.76% of the cap.
....  
BrettNYG10 : 12/9/2016 4:31 pm : link
Drewcon, it's worth noting that Lundqvist's cap hit in 2009-2010 was 12.1% of the cap. 10.63% in 2011-2012. Teams have won with plenty of dead money on the books before - Blackhawks had $5.5M for Cristobal Huet in 2010.

I'm sympathetic to the idea that there are better ways to allocate your cap hit than an elite goaltender. I don't think that's really obtainable unless you can nab a Tavares/Crosby/etc.

I do think elite goaltenders (Lundqvist/Price) mask issues that make it harder for a cogent analysis of the surrounding team, coaches, and management. But that's a separate issue.
Speaking of Price  
bigbluehoya : 12/9/2016 4:37 pm : link
Saw the highlight of him going HAM on Palmeiri last night. I guess he's tired of getting injured.
Raanta In Against Devils?  
Percy : 12/11/2016 11:15 am : link
I kind of hope so. Team D seems less sharp with the King in the net. And the time off is surely good for Lundqvist looking down the road.
RE: Speaking of Price  
arcarsenal : 12/11/2016 11:19 am : link
In comment 13257140 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
Saw the highlight of him going HAM on Palmeiri last night. I guess he's tired of getting injured.


I kind of enjoyed watching that. Fuck Palmeri and the Devils.
Absolutely  
bigbluehoya : 12/11/2016 11:27 am : link
On the other hand, I can't believe what a fucking pussy Emelin is. Dangerous, dirty hit in a 10-1 game and then skates behind his goalie when it's time to pay the piper.
Haha wow  
JoeMoney19 : 12/11/2016 12:03 pm : link
.
From Hartnett  
JoeMoney19 : 12/11/2016 12:06 pm : link
#NYR HC Alain Vigneault on riding Antti Raanta: "I love Hank, but I love the team more."
Jooris claimed by Arizona  
JoeMoney19 : 12/11/2016 12:13 pm : link
.
RE: Can we talk about how hot Amanda Borges is btw?  
Anakim : 12/11/2016 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13256779 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
.


Beautiful girl. I bet Kreider is smashing that
Hank  
SethFromAstoria : 12/11/2016 2:26 pm : link
is the goalie. All time great, hall of famer etc... The idea that he sit for this game is a good one. More Raanta than Hank. Then back to Hank.
Back to the Corner