This morning Kim and Moose were on the Fan discussing the Jets and their 2016 draft, FA signings and FA loss. They mentioned that the loss of Snacks weakened the Jets defense more than most realized. Kim/Moose basically said that they knew he was a good player and a solid part of the DL but they had many top lineman and they could not dedicate more cap money to a unit with other higher impact players they would need to keep.
It made me think of a few seasons ago when the Giants lost Linval Joseph to Minn in FA. There are many here who felt that Reece letting LJ walk was unforgivable. This became even harder to bear since Joseph has turned into one of the best run stoppers in the NFL and was a key part of the Vikes 5-0 start and there seemingly monster D.
Well there are some, myself included, who felt that Reece’s hands were tied. Reece likely knew how good Joseph was but the Giants had other priorities and they were at the mercy of any team who had cap room and could offer Joseph-a good but not a star player-a contract the Giants were not able to match.
So last off season, the shoe was on the other foot and the Giants were the team with deep pockets and were able to steal Snacks from the Jets as the Vikes stole Joseph from us…Are we all even?
I do love having snacks on this team.
What makes you say Snacks is "better" than Joseph?
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but I don't think NYG valued LJ at the level you indicate, given the rumor was their offer was in the 5/20-25 range. It suggests he's become a better player than they expected, or they simply were ready to let him go. They paid handsomely in the end for the better, more consistent Snacks.
What makes you say Snacks is "better" than Joseph?
I think Jon was saying that the contract NYG offered indicates that Linval has become better with Minnesota. IIRC, Linval mentioned Minnesota taught him stuff with technique that helped him become a better football player.
Plenty of pressure and run stats out there to back it up, Connor Hughes put some good stuff out some time back. He's also very consistent, something Joseph has often not been able to demonstrate on a weekly basis.
Harrison and Joseph are on the same level IMO. Who would I prefer? Idk, but I'm glad we have Harrison playing at the level he is playing right now.
Consider in 2014 we had $10m of dead money tied up in Snee, Baas, Webster and Myers, none of whom went on to play a snap for the Giants after 2013.
Our biggest cap hits were Eli ($20.4m), Rolle ($9.3m), Beatty (7.4m), Cruz ($7.4m, IR after 6 games), Kiwi ($5m, Walter Thurmond, Cullen Jenkins, Stevie Brown, J.D. Walton and Jameel McClain.
Not to mention the cap was $130m, compared to the expectation that 2017 will be $168m (and the Giants due to have some rollover money from 2016).
They had Joseph in 2011 and sucked balls then. Canty was a good rusher himself. He was a good player, no doubt but Joseph is still with supremely good players Minnesota. People forget that.
Danielle Hunter, Brian Robison, Everson Griffen, Anthony Barr, Chad Greenway, Eric Kendricks, all very good players in that front seven.
so you still don't get it?
Plenty of pressure and run stats out there to back it up, Connor Hughes put some good stuff out some time back. He's also very consistent, something Joseph has often not been able to demonstrate on a weekly basis.
Jon, Snacks is surprisingly fast for his size. Great signing!
Throw in TE Adams who I think can be a starter upgrade to Tye next year. Throw in UDFA's DE Romeo Okwara and FS Adams, both of whom have impressed and played as starters and you just show a great off-season.
I also believe that WR R. Lewis will be more of a factor next year as he learns route running and such.
We need a strong 2017 off-season. Hopefully we can get UFA WR Pryor from Cleveland to be our #2 WR. He has speed and ability and excelled on a poor team with 913 yards through 15 games.
I hope we retain J. Jerry, M. Newhouse as UFA back-ups. I hope we get the best available OT in free agency and draft a quality OL (poor OL draft I'm told) to groom. We may have to live with Flowers at LT but upgrade RT and maybe even RG.
Needs:
1. OT (2 if possible to replace Beatty and extra OL)
2. WR (we need a true #2 to open this offense up)
3. TE (replace Donnell's roster spot and block and catch)
4. LB (Shepard is solid against run, can Goodson start?)
5. OL (our depth is limited, can we upgrade?)
6. RB (Jennings likely done, Dwarka always hurt and UFA)
7. QB (We need a young guys to groom, may carry 3 QB's)
8. K (if R. Gould leaves....?)
We have $35 million in cap space right now and will likely have more with some cuts and salary reductions (Cruz, Jennings) plus the cap bump up.
I'm praying our 2017 off-season is as good as our 2016.
Well... last year we could have really used Joseph.
Really!!!
But mano y mano, Harrison is the better run-stopper. He's the best run-stoppper at defensive tackle in the entire NFL and is a huge reason why the Giants are no longer outside the playoffs looking in.
But the Giants can never get back the missed Joseph years. Coulda, woulda, shoulda.
All else is revisionist. Now Reese has gottten the cap on order and fixed most of his fuck ups.
What I don't get is why people do mental gymnastics like this is just weird. He fucked up. Does drafting Collins absolve him for grabbing Austin.
You want your GM to minimize mistakes. All GMs miss and screw up. Could be lot worse. He could have been the idiot in Miami who passed up Brees for Culpepper. Lol.
He violated his own mantra of a year too early is better than a year too late.
In retrospect I would have rather rebuilt full scale, including not investing in Joseph.
Irony is if he had, we'd probably been so bad we pick too early and miss out on OBJ.
We signed DRC that offseason, won a few games, and picked OBJ.
All else is revisionist. Now Reese has gottten the cap on order and fixed most of his fuck ups.
What I don't get is why people do mental gymnastics like this is just weird. He fucked up. Does drafting Collins absolve him for grabbing Austin.
You want your GM to minimize mistakes. All GMs miss and screw up. Could be lot worse. He could have been the idiot in Miami who passed up Brees for Culpepper. Lol.
You know what is revisionist? That Reese did a shit job with the cap, when the guys that were in line for extensions had freak injuries that destroyed their careers (Nicks, JPP, and Cruz).
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They gave Joseph. It was stupid. He was a young improving player and they let him walk because Reese did a shit job managing the cap. Period.
All else is revisionist. Now Reese has gottten the cap on order and fixed most of his fuck ups.
What I don't get is why people do mental gymnastics like this is just weird. He fucked up. Does drafting Collins absolve him for grabbing Austin.
You want your GM to minimize mistakes. All GMs miss and screw up. Could be lot worse. He could have been the idiot in Miami who passed up Brees for Culpepper. Lol.
You know what is revisionist? That Reese did a shit job with the cap, when the guys that were in line for extensions had freak injuries that destroyed their careers (Nicks, JPP, and Cruz).
Really? So both David Diego and Snee had freak injuries that ended their 8 and 10'uear careers? He passes on Max Unger for a king Sintim and Signed Baas to a rich deal. Who even though never heathy got two revisions to his contract due to lack of cap space. He passed on Linval to sign the never ever ever healthy LB Beason. He gave a big contract to Beatty who was never more than average since h had no one else on he roster who could even try to play LT. Gee why didn't they resign Bennet who left for a very reasonable contract. Oh. They were up against the cap. Still waiting for a TE who is even half the player that guy is. How did that great Geoff Schwartz contract turn out. He fucked up the cap. They were up against it for 3 years after the SB. But don't let the actual situation color your thoughts
Try again. Shit you can't even tuck your shirt in before you leave your desk.
Try again. Shit you can't even tuck your shirt in before you leave your desk.
You're bitching about not bringing back Linval due to cap restraints, and guys that are in line for extensions beyond 2014, and you bring up Max Unger? Diehl and Snee were guys that TC refused to bench. Linval's last year, Snee was on the bench, and Diehl wasn't brought back the season after. Those two had zero impact on us bringing back Joseph. I love how you just make up shit like "giving Beatty a BIG contract" without giving any thought to what starting LT's made on an average at the time. Just sounds like you're reaching for reasons to kill Reese for not bringing back Joseph when we replaced him with someone who is better and much more cost controlled (Hankins). Stop just being reactive and angry, and think about who it is that were in line for new contracts when we let Joseph walk. Eli Manning got a new deal in 2015. Cruz and Nicks were looking to get paid. JPP. It might come as a surprise to you, but cap space dries up quickly, but yes, let's bitch that we didn't back up the brinks truck for positions that most teams don't put high premiums on.
What rubs me the wrong way
David in LA : 9/6/2015 7:03 pm : link
is that we shelved LJ for his rookie year, and spent time developing him only to let him walk away. I understand rosters turnover, but you cannot let first and second rounders walk unless they are dogs.
Lol - yeah right, keep keep flip flopping and call it translation.
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Take your own advice and take mine for once and stop swearing non-stop everytime your caught flip flopping.
Your words, not mine
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David in LA : 9/6/2015 7:09 pm : link
if they let LJ walk knowing that Eli, JPP and Nicks were looking to cash in. I think if Jerry had a crystal ball, and knew JPP would blow up his hand, and that Hakeem's body would fail on him, he would have kept LJ.
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Really? So both David Diego and Snee had freak injuries that ended their 8 and 10'uear careers? He passes on Max Unger for a king Sintim and Signed Baas to a rich deal. Who even though never heathy got two revisions to his contract due to lack of cap space. He passed on Linval to sign the never ever ever healthy LB Beason. He gave a big contract to Beatty who was never more than average since h had no one else on he roster who could even try to play LT. Gee why didn't they resign Bennet who left for a very reasonable contract. Oh. They were up against the cap. Still waiting for a TE who is even half the player that guy is. How did that great Geoff Schwartz contract turn out. He fucked up the cap. They were up against it for 3 years after the SB. But don't let the actual situation color your thoughts
Try again. Shit you can't even tuck your shirt in before you leave your desk.
You're bitching about not bringing back Linval due to cap restraints, and guys that are in line for extensions beyond 2014, and you bring up Max Unger? Diehl and Snee were guys that TC refused to bench. Linval's last year, Snee was on the bench, and Diehl wasn't brought back the season after. Those two had zero impact on us bringing back Joseph. I love how you just make up shit like "giving Beatty a BIG contract" without giving any thought to what starting LT's made on an average at the time. Just sounds like you're reaching for reasons to kill Reese for not bringing back Joseph when we replaced him with someone who is better and much more cost controlled (Hankins). Stop just being reactive and angry, and think about who it is that were in line for new contracts when we let Joseph walk. Eli Manning got a new deal in 2015. Cruz and Nicks were looking to get paid. JPP. It might come as a surprise to you, but cap space dries up quickly, but yes, let's bitch that we didn't back up the brinks truck for positions that most teams don't put high premiums on.
Sorry. My last reply was way too long. I tried to answer you. Now accuse me
Of making things up. Did they not resigns Beason? Did they not redo all those contracts eating up cap space. Resulting in dead money. Seriously I e been on this site for about 13 years now. You are easily in the top 5 biggest dopes here. You fight with everyone. Another 95 pound keyboard warriors. Bye
Sorry. My last reply was way too long. I tried to answer you. Now accuse me
Of making things up. Did they not resigns Beason? Did they not redo all those contracts eating up cap space. Resulting in dead money. Seriously I e been on this site for about 13 years now. You are easily in the top 5 biggest dopes here. You fight with everyone. Another 95 pound keyboard warriors. Bye
+1
Agreed 100%