Why did Jim Fassel never get another chance?

back to back championships with the Las Vegas Locomotives.

Shocking that those didn't translate to another head coaching job. (not really)

could not be offset by his coaching which was shitty

like to hire people who had previously worked for the GMen. He felt he knew them but he was stupid here as he didn't really know Fassel - see off field antics. The other reason he hired Fassel was to fix the unfixable and that was Dave Brown. Brown was a nice kid but a bad NFL QB and not NFL starter quality and not a guy that would ever sniff the SB.

In comment 13304055 area junc said:

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while all of that may be true, obviously JF isn't the only coach to ever piss off the owner or not work with the GM well. we are talking about a coach who got to the Super Bowl, well-liked by his players, was a known QB guru and had some excellent assistant coach hires. i can't recall a more successful guy who never got another chance

I think it might be a bit different when it comes to Mara, who had a ton of pull with owners. He wasn't normally a guy who said much, but when he did he got people to listen.

It's very small, but here's what I could find regarding Mara giving a poor reference when Fassel was interviewing with the Bills:

Multiple sources confirmed that Giants owner Wellington Mara called Bills owner Ralph Wilson before Jim Fassel interviewed with Buffalo. Mara and Wilson have been friends for years, and Mara wanted to warn Wilson of Fassel's 'occasional questionable' off-field behavior that had embarrassed New York management at times during Fassel's tenure.
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In comment 13304079 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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I would again like to point out that Sean Payton in his tenure in NO has done much more off-the-field dirt than what got Gentleman Jim blacklisted by the Maras. Time, place and who your friends are, I guess.

They will cut you slack if you're the guy bringing the hydrocodine.

In comment 13304082 SomeFan said:

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That is why. Was lucky to gave a very talented defense ang good coordinators.

He was a better coach than you give him credit for. Unlike, say, Jeff Fischer, he was intimately involved in offensive game planning, and called plays for most of his tenure here. I'm not saying he was Vince Lombardi reincarnated, but far worse coaches got more chances than Fassell did.

I think Wellington let all owners know that Fassell couldn't be trusted, and owners didn't want to risk hiring him. By the time Wellington had passed, Fassel's time had, as well.

were notoriously undisciplined.

But all that said, if an asshole like Rex Ryan can get a second job immediately after getting canned, Fassel surely deserved a 2nd chance.

But I disagree he was a crappy coach. I think he's better than several currently working.

but they conveniently neglect the 41-0 epic beatdown of a talented Vikings team two weeks prior or winning the nfc east in his first season with the legandary danny kanell and dave brown as his QBs.

ultimately while he was a good strategist and great QB coach, he had too many epic collapses, stinkers and upset losses against backup quarterbacks/inferior opponents that demonstrated his team was not always prepared.

In comment 13304098 SomeFan said:

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like to hire people who had previously worked for the GMen. .

Well, Mara wanted Parcells back yet Young had already offered the job to Fassel.

Can you imagine what could have happened?

Belichick followed Parcells. Parcells could have returned to the Giants and Belichick could have taken over.

We made out ok but, ya know.

In comment 13304121 mrvax said:

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In comment 13304079 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said: Quote: I would again like to point out that Sean Payton in his tenure in NO has done much more off-the-field dirt than what got Gentleman Jim blacklisted by the Maras. Time, place and who your friends are, I guess. They will cut you slack if you're the guy bringing the hydrocodine.

Vicodin!

In comment 13304138 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:

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Vicodin!

Vicodin = hydrocodine

it's hydrocodone.

In comment 13304098 SomeFan said:

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like to hire people who had previously worked for the GMen. He felt he knew them but he was stupid here as he didn't really know Fassel - see off field antics. The other reason he hired Fassel was to fix the unfixable and that was Dave Brown. Brown was a nice kid but a bad NFL QB and not NFL starter quality and not a guy that would ever sniff the SB.

He was considered by many to be the next Bill Walsh. He was in demand and could waited for several jobs.

I also think the way he treated Sean Payton hurt him. It worked short term but he lost some credibility. Strahan rebelling while he was at his Mom's funeral was a black mark. The chips speech was a low point in NFL history.

A speech about him being all in on his team's playoff chances, vs. Rae Carruth gunning down his pregnant girlfriend or Ray Rice knocking out his wife in an elevator?

You know what a low point is, right?

in SB? Game changer for Fassel, both in game and carreer

blames then Redskins' GM Vinny Ceratto for what happened the second time when they hired Zorn. Apparently, Zorn was Cerrato's guy who he talked Fassel into hiring as OC if Jim got the HC job but then Vinny got nervous because he thought Zorn would be poached by another team "within a year" so he talked Snyder into hiring Zorn over Fassel.

Well, Zorn was and disaster and was shown the door along with Cerrato. On a side note, Vinny does a sportstalk show here in Baltimore and comes off like a complete tool.

In comment 13304135 Giants2012 said:

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In comment 13304098 SomeFan said: Quote: like to hire people who had previously worked for the GMen. . Well, Mara wanted Parcells back yet Young had already offered the job to Fassel. Can you imagine what could have happened? Belichick followed Parcells. Parcells could have returned to the Giants and Belichick could have taken over. We made out ok but, ya know.

aaah, what might have been.

That was pretty much it.

..was a lot like Bill Callahan's with Oakland against Tampa Bay. You don't reduce the opportunities to do what you do well simply because it's 'the big game'. The players just aren't going to buy in, and in both cases, the players were really pissed off. Amani Toomer or Rich Gannon were both pretty vocal on Sirius in the last couple of years on the subject.

he got lucky because he had sean payton and john fox for the SB team. i think it is well accepted the sean payton's offense, which he carried forward to NO is what helped Kerry Collins in the playoffs that year.

In comment 13304160 jcn56 said:

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A speech about him being all in on his team's playoff chances, vs. Rae Carruth gunning down his pregnant girlfriend or Ray Rice knocking out his wife in an elevator? You know what a low point is, right?

You know what hyperbole is, right?

In comment 13304042 Captplanet said:

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Plus, you would think the NFL would not have an issue with a coach, who has his own boat and loves hookers.

Man in the boat overboard!

In comment 13304190 Racer said:

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..was a lot like Bill Callahan's with Oakland against Tampa Bay. You don't reduce the opportunities to do what you do well simply because it's 'the big game'. The players just aren't going to buy in, and in both cases, the players were really pissed off. Amani Toomer or Rich Gannon were both pretty vocal on Sirius in the last couple of years on the subject.

Great point. It was a chicken shit game plan, neck and neck with Dan Reeves' fetal position offense at SF in 1993. 2 of the most disgraceful Giants performances in my lifetime.

thing as the deciding factor. that allegedly happened in the 1999 offseason. he was never arrested. he coached the team for 3 more years. I think the 2002 collapse to san fran and the 2003 injury plagued 4-12 season were the major reasons. it came down to the bottom line of team's performance. if the giants held on against the 49ers in 2002, I think he would have coached the team in 2004.

if every coach or player who ever had some fun on a party boat or cheated on their spouse was blackballed from the league, there wouldn't be enough players to form 32 teams.

I think there may be some truth to how he did not perform as an assistant in Baltimore as a major reason he was never hired again as a HC.

was when fat Tony flopped on Collins and dislocated his left shoulder. I still don't know how Collins was able to stay in the game.

In comment 13304082 SomeFan said:

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That is why. Was lucky to gave a very talented defense ang good coordinators.

You forget how terrible our offense was when he became head coach. He managed to get us a capable QB in Kerry Collins, and helped him turn his life around.

Also, very good coaches surround themselves with great coordinators. He had John Fox and Sean Payton. Both very successful coaches.

Was unforgiveable to the Mara's, I will say that. It is not just another off the field thing and has nothing to do with any fucking boat. But people are correct when they assume if he had won the Superbowl and there were not any total sideline meltdowns during playoff games, maybe the Mara'a would have had to figure out what to do. Fassel made it easy.

After the Giants he interviewed poorly and when given an opportunity with the Ravens he had a bad attitude even with his buddy who hired him, he was bitter. Maybe rightfully, but that is it in a nutshell.

I really haven't heard this before.

and overachieve. We won a division in 97 with Danny Kanel at QB, for example.

IMO he was a better coach than he often gets credit for - but his tenure was also marred by some epic meltdowns - 97 playoffs vs Vikings, no-show in the Super Bowl, 2002 wild card game in SF.

Still, all things being equal if it were based on coaching ability alone, he would have gotten another shot. The rumors of arrogance, being unprepared and extra marital shenanigans clearly dogged him

The Maras probably cringed with him as HC but weren't about to get rid of him as long as he was successful.

Fassel got impressive results considering what he had to work with. Case in point: Matt Bryant. We hired him because we were so tight against the cap we couldn't afford anyone who made more than rookie minimum. He kicked great till out punter was hurt and we had to do the same. Unlike Bryant, our new punter Allen sucks at everything, including holding for FGs, and Bryant misses like 4 kicks in 2 games as a result. But he was otherwise perfect, and went on a long and excellent career after being let go because..........

Then we lose our long snapper leading to the famous missed FG snap leading to the NFL apologizing and saying we should have had another chance leading to Steve Marioucci's "bummer" quote. And Bryant getting let go.

Fassel had the Skins job theoretically locked up prior to Gibbs emerging, and as a result he half asses his AZ interview because he knew he was already taking a better job. His off field partying penchant did him in in Buffalo and elsewhere.

Fassel was a good coach - he got very good results considering what he had to work with. But he had very bad juju. Very very very very bad juju.

.

In comment 13304156 Ron Johnson 30 said:

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In comment 13304098 SomeFan said: Quote: like to hire people who had previously worked for the GMen. He felt he knew them but he was stupid here as he didn't really know Fassel - see off field antics. The other reason he hired Fassel was to fix the unfixable and that was Dave Brown. Brown was a nice kid but a bad NFL QB and not NFL starter quality and not a guy that would ever sniff the SB. He was considered by many to be the next Bill Walsh. He was in demand and could waited for several jobs. I also think the way he treated Sean Payton hurt him. It worked short term but he lost some credibility. Strahan rebelling while he was at his Mom's funeral was a black mark. The chips speech was a low point in NFL history.

Who the fuck considered Fassel to be the next Bill Walsh? That must have been marketing specialists. You could not understand Fassel at his press conferences. He was inarticulate. He was not short or using coach-speak with the press; he was inarticulate. To boot, it seemed to me that the team had no direction under him. When he left, it was addition by subtraction.

good time management. I fondly recall that his challenges were often losers and inexplicably timed.

Be sure to note which ones have a job.

"motivational" speech at a business function once where he was the "big name" speaker. Boooooooooooooooorrriiiiing. It was a Fixed Income conference, he kept saying how similar "selling stocks" was to motivating players. Completely inane.

Use that stuff about him getting a lot out of what he had, he is a huge part of why we had what we had though. Bottom line is that Fassel was a mediocre head coach. We had three brutal playoff losses under him, and we had 1 great one. But the losses to Minnesota, San Francisco, with open arguing and almost fist fighting between players going on during the game, and that brutal Super Bowl performance really define his tenure/

Don't approve of his off-field behavior (the Maras didn't either)

Going into the Super Bowl) even after having crushed the Vikings in the NFC Championship game, I knew they didn't have a chance in you-know where ....

The BBI delusional blamed him for the butt kicking; the truth is they ran into one of the best two or three dest defenses in the history of the NFL (just like the '85 Patriots ran into the '85 Bears).

Then along comes Drillmaster Tom; he was going to fix everything - Wrong.
Remember, even Eric, here, was volunteering to pack Tom's bags (when all of a sudden Tom re-adjusted his attitude and both Strahan [and even Tiki] saved his job, speaking to the Maras)

I remember when Jim was fired, he didn't go whimpering out the back door. He asked to stay and finished the season, his severely injured and out-manned team played their hearts out for him.

Never will understand the hate for him, never.

In comment 13304190 Racer said:

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..was a lot like Bill Callahan's with Oakland against Tampa Bay. You don't reduce the opportunities to do what you do well simply because it's 'the big game'. The players just aren't going to buy in, and in both cases, the players were really pissed off. Amani Toomer or Rich Gannon were both pretty vocal on Sirius in the last couple of years on the subject.

I see your point, but Callahan was too lazy to change the terminology, and he was facing his former boss! I'm surprised he ever got another job in the NFL, no less a HC gig! Fassell's team was underprepared, but it didn't help that Kerry Collins looked like he was being chased by Michael Myers (although, to be fair, he was being chased by Ray Lewis!).

In comment 13304211 Les in TO said:

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if every coach or player who ever had some fun on a party boat or cheated on their spouse was blackballed from the league, there wouldn't be enough players to form 32 teams.

That's a good point. When you think about it, Doug Pederson probably isn't a HC if he hadn't screwed around with KC employees!

He was lazy and didn't do his job. From what I understand (based on this article) he hasn't spoken to Billick since.


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I think people forget how bad the giants were in the 90's. Fassel help most Giant fans forget about Kent Graham and Dave Brown. For all of his faults, he turned Kerry Collins into a Superbowl QB, the giants were in or fighting for the playoffs most of his tenure, he also had to deal with Shockey, Barber, and Strahan. Don't get me wrong, he is also responsible for some of the most heartbreaking losses in Giants history... Giants vs SF 2002, and SB, but atleast he got us to those games.

In comment 13304474 upstatenyg said:

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I really haven't heard this before.

Cocaine & under age hookers is something you usually associate L.T with.

In comment 13304609 Victor in CT said:

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"motivational" speech at a business function once where he was the "big name" speaker. Boooooooooooooooorrriiiiing. It was a Fixed Income conference, he kept saying how similar "selling stocks" was to motivating players. Completely inane.

Aren't stocks not considered fixed income? Or is that your point?

In comment 13304176 arcarsenal said:

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That was pretty much it.

What did happen on the party boat?

as Giants head coach can't be called anything other than successful.

the facility & EA was appalled? I could have sworn I read/heard that somewhere.

In comment 13304026 Big Blue '56 said:

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might be able to fill you in on that..😜

Jim Fassel will never be a HC in the NFL again!

In comment 13305922 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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the facility & EA was appalled? I could have sworn I read/heard that somewhere.

The ring couldn't have been more appalling than Ernie's hairpiece.