I have watched too many games where special teams have absolutely killed us. Today was one in a long line. I hope we finally move in another direction on special teams.
like to bash Quinn, but the special teams had a really good year.Today was not so good because the kicker and punter did not kick well in frigid conditions and Rainey made a bone headed decision.
it would've been a complete disaster by the special teams as opposed to a 95% disaster. Wing was horrendous. The coverage units were terrible. The Rainey play... you just can't have something like that happen in the postseason.
Rainey to catch a ball going out of bounds ... Quinn didnt kick short line drive punts . And the kickoffs were short too. The bad specials today were not on him!
because he should've coached him not to for 18+ weeks. If a player makes a bonehead, uneducated play, it's because the coach did not cover it in his meetings. and how many times is Harris going to make bad decisions for an entire year without repercussion? Does that fall on Harris or Quinn?
Gould is just a short-term placeholder anyway. Line drive punts? again, something Coach should've hammered home with the cold and rock-solid balls. kickoff coverage? if players are undisciplined enough to miss their assignments and go outside of their lanes - yup, coaching.
how many positive plays have special teams given us and how many negative....I think we all know the answer to this. We always loose momentum because of specials we rarely gain it.
like to bash Quinn, but the special teams had a really good year.Today was not so good because the kicker and punter did not kick well in frigid conditions and Rainey made a bone headed decision.
Well the coverage wasn't exactly stellar. And Harris is done. We need a new returner.
when the game needs a boost, instead of from the very beginning? do we seriously have to wait for Harris to dance around for 2 yards on 5 punts before we put our best weapon in there?
because he should've coached him not to for 18+ weeks. If a player makes a bonehead, uneducated play, it's because the coach did not cover it in his meetings. and how many times is Harris going to make bad decisions for an entire year without repercussion? Does that fall on Harris or Quinn?
In fairness, that mistake was SO egregious that I doubt it would have even been reviewed by any NFL ST coach at any point during the season.
That said, I would still be curious about Quinn's coaching as it relates to kick returns from inside the end zone (seemed to happen too frequently considering the new 25 yard line touchback) and fielding punts inside the 10, especially those that aren't high, hanging punts.
Do any of you Quinn defenders think Bill Belichick would have kept him? This guy would have been kicked out of the building years ago. meanwhile Mike Pope gets shown the door...Unfrickinbelieveable
Do any of you Quinn defenders think Bill Belichick would have kept him? This guy would have been kicked out of the building years ago. meanwhile Mike Pope gets shown the door...Unfrickinbelieveable
Do any of you Quinn defenders think Bill Belichick would have kept him? This guy would have been kicked out of the building years ago. meanwhile Mike Pope gets shown the door...Unfrickinbelieveable
Agree, also.
Poor Play by coverage teams. Can't blame Gould on the K/Os. Cold hard ball. Packers kicker was about the same. Wing started out ok, then hit some line drives.
like to bash Quinn, but the special teams had a really good year.Today was not so good because the kicker and punter did not kick well in frigid conditions and Rainey made a bone headed decision.
agreed
I thought specials were pretty good for the most part this year. Look ...Wing had a bad day. plain and simple. he has been really good most of the year and today he punted poorly.
Goulds kickoffs were short and problamatic all day. He made his FG and PATs. Let's remember we pulled him off the scrap heap mid season.
Coverage was ok considering the kicking was so bad.
Rainy made a bad decision. Let's not pretend that's not solely on him. no one is taught to do that.
1 area i will agree with has been Harris decision making in the return game. today and all year. but here is the twist. I put that on macadoo - not quinn. Harris has been making bad decisions all year. HC should have benched his ass from return duty. I believe TC would have sat him down. it was habitual and often perplexing.
this all coming from someone who has called for quinns head on more then 1 occasion
like to bash Quinn, but the special teams had a really good year.Today was not so good because the kicker and punter did not kick well in frigid conditions and Rainey made a bone headed decision.
agreed
I thought specials were pretty good for the most part this year. Look ...Wing had a bad day. plain and simple. he has been really good most of the year and today he punted poorly.
Goulds kickoffs were short and problamatic all day. He made his FG and PATs. Let's remember we pulled him off the scrap heap mid season.
Coverage was ok considering the kicking was so bad.
Rainy made a bad decision. Let's not pretend that's not solely on him. no one is taught to do that.
1 area i will agree with has been Harris decision making in the return game. today and all year. but here is the twist. I put that on macadoo - not quinn. Harris has been making bad decisions all year. HC should have benched his ass from return duty. I believe TC would have sat him down. it was habitual and often perplexing.
this all coming from someone who has called for quinns head on more then 1 occasion
how many times does Dwayne Harris field the ball at the
It may be unfair to him because he does do some things well. And his mental error was not the reason they lost, although it was a significant error in a critical moment in the game. But after that, I was done with him.
I thought specials were pretty good for the most part this year. Look ...Wing had a bad day. plain and simple. he has been really good most of the year and today he punted poorly.
Unless you have a particularly bad punter or kicker, almost every team's special teams will look "pretty good" for most of the year. It's not like teams with even the worst unit give up a return TD every game or something. I think it's generally pretty easy for an ST unit's average or poor ability to be obscured. How many minutes' worth of actual, ticking game time is the ST unit on the field in an average game? One?
I always get the feeling our ST unit is more often involved in a momentum-swinging play for the other team than one that benefits us. I seldom feel as though we catch another team unawares or capitalize on their ST mistakes, compared to vice versa.
Until someone gets the photos he has locked in his safe
It may be unfair to him because he does do some things well. And his mental error was not the reason they lost, although it was a significant error in a critical moment in the game. But after that, I was done with him.
As reactionary as it is, I totally agree. And it was even worse when Rainey was right back out there on the next kick return!
It may be unfair to him because he does do some things well. And his mental error was not the reason they lost, although it was a significant error in a critical moment in the game. But after that, I was done with him.
What does Rainey do well? Did he do anything to help this team at all this season?
How about an offensive coordinator who can get this offense moving. You have three guys out there and a serviceable albeit not great tight end and you have trouble getting one on one matchups that favor you. There were times Beckham was triple teamed and yet that's where Eli threw the ball.
I said it from day one. This offense has taken from Eli what were his strengths and nullified them. All the routes are slants and shallow crosses and teams look to take them away. And when they do he has nowhere to go with the ball.
Eli was at his best under Gilbride. Those option routes were almost impossible to cover because the defender didn't know which way the receiver was going to break. Plus, in this offense Eli is not nearly as effective in the hurry up offense because if you notice he is not running up to the line like he did in the Gilbride offense and just snapping the ball. He's still getting calls in his headset then he snaps it. The Greenbay offense works for Aaron Rodgers but I have felt all along it was and is wrong for Eli.
Eli is at his best with intermediate to down the field throws. He has flashed it down the stretch but if McAdoo continues to play offense in a box this offense is going nowhere. Eli was good at spreading defenses out and that is what almost always opened things up for him. Not so in this offense.
It may be unfair to him because he does do some things well. And his mental error was not the reason they lost, although it was a significant error in a critical moment in the game. But after that, I was done with him.
They shouldn't have allowed him on the bus leaving Lambeau. Inexcusable. That was a Tampa Bay Buc mistake. Let him go back there and do that shit.
How about an offensive coordinator who can get this offense moving. You have three guys out there and a serviceable albeit not great tight end and you have trouble getting one on one matchups that favor you. There were times Beckham was triple teamed and yet that's where Eli threw the ball.
I said it from day one. This offense has taken from Eli what were his strengths and nullified them. All the routes are slants and shallow crosses and teams look to take them away. And when they do he has nowhere to go with the ball.
Eli was at his best under Gilbride. Those option routes were almost impossible to cover because the defender didn't know which way the receiver was going to break. Plus, in this offense Eli is not nearly as effective in the hurry up offense because if you notice he is not running up to the line like he did in the Gilbride offense and just snapping the ball. He's still getting calls in his headset then he snaps it. The Greenbay offense works for Aaron Rodgers but I have felt all along it was and is wrong for Eli.
Eli is at his best with intermediate to down the field throws. He has flashed it down the stretch but if McAdoo continues to play offense in a box this offense is going nowhere. Eli was good at spreading defenses out and that is what almost always opened things up for him. Not so in this offense.
In comment 13315390 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
Quote:
Rainey to catch a ball going out of bounds ... Quinn didnt kick short line drive punts . And the kickoffs were short too. The bad specials today were not on him!
but he did put DRC, who couldn't even run, on kickoff coverage during a playoff game. Run in the sidelines if you want to test a leg. You don't risk a kickoff return in a playoff game to test a leg on the field which is obviously not working on the sidelines.
If you are going to blame Quinn for the bad stuff, you should be fair
How about an offensive coordinator who can get this offense moving. You have three guys out there and a serviceable albeit not great tight end and you have trouble getting one on one matchups that favor you. There were times Beckham was triple teamed and yet that's where Eli threw the ball.
I said it from day one. This offense has taken from Eli what were his strengths and nullified them. All the routes are slants and shallow crosses and teams look to take them away. And when they do he has nowhere to go with the ball.
Eli was at his best under Gilbride. Those option routes were almost impossible to cover because the defender didn't know which way the receiver was going to break. Plus, in this offense Eli is not nearly as effective in the hurry up offense because if you notice he is not running up to the line like he did in the Gilbride offense and just snapping the ball. He's still getting calls in his headset then he snaps it. The Greenbay offense works for Aaron Rodgers but I have felt all along it was and is wrong for Eli.
Eli is at his best with intermediate to down the field throws. He has flashed it down the stretch but if McAdoo continues to play offense in a box this offense is going nowhere. Eli was good at spreading defenses out and that is what almost always opened things up for him. Not so in this offense.
Gilbride's offense went dead the second the CBA changed. Too much complexity to manage with rosters that are constantly changing and practice time at a minimum.
Further, McAdoo's offense was doing just fine, up until this season. The major change was moving up to HC from OC, and Sullivan taking the OC reigns. Maybe BM has to give up playcalling responsibilities. Maybe Sullivan needs to go. But given the schematic issues this season, you have to take a very long, hard look at the playcalling.
ST's are generally a good indicator of how much depth
you have on your roster. ST's sucked for years because Reese tried to stash older vets, and that hurt specials. Then when the inevitable injuries hit, specials went from bad to worse.
This year's team had an infusion of youth down the roster, and it showed on specials. It isn't Quinn's fault that Wing struggled kicking a frozen ball or that Rainey had a brain fart.
you have on your roster. ST's sucked for years because Reese tried to stash older vets, and that hurt specials. Then when the inevitable injuries hit, specials went from bad to worse.
This year's team had an infusion of youth down the roster, and it showed on specials. It isn't Quinn's fault that Wing struggled kicking a frozen ball or that Rainey had a brain fart.
I'm inclined to think it's at least a little bit his fault that Rainey had a brain fart, but even if we remove that, is it Quinn's fault that Sheppard didn't get away from the punt? Is it Quinn's fault that Harris repeatedly returned kicks from inside his own end zone all season even though he very rarely got back out to the 25? It can't be that NOTHING is Quinn's fault. I'm fine giving him credit as well - our punt coverage all season (until Sunday) was a strength and it helped contribute to our YOY defensive improvement, for example. But I don't think you can just clear Quinn of any responsibility for the gaffes.
If none of these errors are attributable to Quinn, that makes it seem like it's not the ST coach's job to prevent/correct mistakes or instruct on rules and in-game reactions. If that's the case, what exactly is the ST coach's job? Do we really need a ST coach? Does anyone?
How he stayed, when Pope was sent packing is beyond me. It's also showed on the field.
Well the coverage wasn't exactly stellar. And Harris is done. We need a new returner.
In fairness, that mistake was SO egregious that I doubt it would have even been reviewed by any NFL ST coach at any point during the season.
That said, I would still be curious about Quinn's coaching as it relates to kick returns from inside the end zone (seemed to happen too frequently considering the new 25 yard line touchback) and fielding punts inside the 10, especially those that aren't high, hanging punts.
That's BS
Agree with that.
Agree, also.
Poor Play by coverage teams. Can't blame Gould on the K/Os. Cold hard ball. Packers kicker was about the same. Wing started out ok, then hit some line drives.
agreed
I thought specials were pretty good for the most part this year. Look ...Wing had a bad day. plain and simple. he has been really good most of the year and today he punted poorly.
Goulds kickoffs were short and problamatic all day. He made his FG and PATs. Let's remember we pulled him off the scrap heap mid season.
Coverage was ok considering the kicking was so bad.
Rainy made a bad decision. Let's not pretend that's not solely on him. no one is taught to do that.
1 area i will agree with has been Harris decision making in the return game. today and all year. but here is the twist. I put that on macadoo - not quinn. Harris has been making bad decisions all year. HC should have benched his ass from return duty. I believe TC would have sat him down. it was habitual and often perplexing.
this all coming from someone who has called for quinns head on more then 1 occasion
agreed
I thought specials were pretty good for the most part this year. Look ...Wing had a bad day. plain and simple. he has been really good most of the year and today he punted poorly.
Goulds kickoffs were short and problamatic all day. He made his FG and PATs. Let's remember we pulled him off the scrap heap mid season.
Coverage was ok considering the kicking was so bad.
Rainy made a bad decision. Let's not pretend that's not solely on him. no one is taught to do that.
1 area i will agree with has been Harris decision making in the return game. today and all year. but here is the twist. I put that on macadoo - not quinn. Harris has been making bad decisions all year. HC should have benched his ass from return duty. I believe TC would have sat him down. it was habitual and often perplexing.
this all coming from someone who has called for quinns head on more then 1 occasion
And what on earth was Sheppard thinking letting that punt hit him.
Bingo! I thought we were grooming Izzo to take over anyhow. Pissed when we lost him to HOU.
It may be unfair to him because he does do some things well. And his mental error was not the reason they lost, although it was a significant error in a critical moment in the game. But after that, I was done with him.
I thought specials were pretty good for the most part this year. Look ...Wing had a bad day. plain and simple. he has been really good most of the year and today he punted poorly.
Unless you have a particularly bad punter or kicker, almost every team's special teams will look "pretty good" for most of the year. It's not like teams with even the worst unit give up a return TD every game or something. I think it's generally pretty easy for an ST unit's average or poor ability to be obscured. How many minutes' worth of actual, ticking game time is the ST unit on the field in an average game? One?
I always get the feeling our ST unit is more often involved in a momentum-swinging play for the other team than one that benefits us. I seldom feel as though we catch another team unawares or capitalize on their ST mistakes, compared to vice versa.
It may be unfair to him because he does do some things well. And his mental error was not the reason they lost, although it was a significant error in a critical moment in the game. But after that, I was done with him.
As reactionary as it is, I totally agree. And it was even worse when Rainey was right back out there on the next kick return!
It may be unfair to him because he does do some things well. And his mental error was not the reason they lost, although it was a significant error in a critical moment in the game. But after that, I was done with him.
What does Rainey do well? Did he do anything to help this team at all this season?
I said it from day one. This offense has taken from Eli what were his strengths and nullified them. All the routes are slants and shallow crosses and teams look to take them away. And when they do he has nowhere to go with the ball.
Eli was at his best under Gilbride. Those option routes were almost impossible to cover because the defender didn't know which way the receiver was going to break. Plus, in this offense Eli is not nearly as effective in the hurry up offense because if you notice he is not running up to the line like he did in the Gilbride offense and just snapping the ball. He's still getting calls in his headset then he snaps it. The Greenbay offense works for Aaron Rodgers but I have felt all along it was and is wrong for Eli.
Eli is at his best with intermediate to down the field throws. He has flashed it down the stretch but if McAdoo continues to play offense in a box this offense is going nowhere. Eli was good at spreading defenses out and that is what almost always opened things up for him. Not so in this offense.
It may be unfair to him because he does do some things well. And his mental error was not the reason they lost, although it was a significant error in a critical moment in the game. But after that, I was done with him.
They shouldn't have allowed him on the bus leaving Lambeau. Inexcusable. That was a Tampa Bay Buc mistake. Let him go back there and do that shit.
I said it from day one. This offense has taken from Eli what were his strengths and nullified them. All the routes are slants and shallow crosses and teams look to take them away. And when they do he has nowhere to go with the ball.
Eli was at his best under Gilbride. Those option routes were almost impossible to cover because the defender didn't know which way the receiver was going to break. Plus, in this offense Eli is not nearly as effective in the hurry up offense because if you notice he is not running up to the line like he did in the Gilbride offense and just snapping the ball. He's still getting calls in his headset then he snaps it. The Greenbay offense works for Aaron Rodgers but I have felt all along it was and is wrong for Eli.
Eli is at his best with intermediate to down the field throws. He has flashed it down the stretch but if McAdoo continues to play offense in a box this offense is going nowhere. Eli was good at spreading defenses out and that is what almost always opened things up for him. Not so in this offense.
I have to agree with you.
blueblood, interesting point.
but he did put DRC, who couldn't even run, on kickoff coverage during a playoff game. Run in the sidelines if you want to test a leg. You don't risk a kickoff return in a playoff game to test a leg on the field which is obviously not working on the sidelines.
I forget, did any of our players win any STPOW awards this season? DId we have any players who even sniffed the Pro Bowl for ST?
I said it from day one. This offense has taken from Eli what were his strengths and nullified them. All the routes are slants and shallow crosses and teams look to take them away. And when they do he has nowhere to go with the ball.
Eli was at his best under Gilbride. Those option routes were almost impossible to cover because the defender didn't know which way the receiver was going to break. Plus, in this offense Eli is not nearly as effective in the hurry up offense because if you notice he is not running up to the line like he did in the Gilbride offense and just snapping the ball. He's still getting calls in his headset then he snaps it. The Greenbay offense works for Aaron Rodgers but I have felt all along it was and is wrong for Eli.
Eli is at his best with intermediate to down the field throws. He has flashed it down the stretch but if McAdoo continues to play offense in a box this offense is going nowhere. Eli was good at spreading defenses out and that is what almost always opened things up for him. Not so in this offense.
Gilbride's offense went dead the second the CBA changed. Too much complexity to manage with rosters that are constantly changing and practice time at a minimum.
Further, McAdoo's offense was doing just fine, up until this season. The major change was moving up to HC from OC, and Sullivan taking the OC reigns. Maybe BM has to give up playcalling responsibilities. Maybe Sullivan needs to go. But given the schematic issues this season, you have to take a very long, hard look at the playcalling.
This year's team had an infusion of youth down the roster, and it showed on specials. It isn't Quinn's fault that Wing struggled kicking a frozen ball or that Rainey had a brain fart.
This year's team had an infusion of youth down the roster, and it showed on specials. It isn't Quinn's fault that Wing struggled kicking a frozen ball or that Rainey had a brain fart.
I'm inclined to think it's at least a little bit his fault that Rainey had a brain fart, but even if we remove that, is it Quinn's fault that Sheppard didn't get away from the punt? Is it Quinn's fault that Harris repeatedly returned kicks from inside his own end zone all season even though he very rarely got back out to the 25? It can't be that NOTHING is Quinn's fault. I'm fine giving him credit as well - our punt coverage all season (until Sunday) was a strength and it helped contribute to our YOY defensive improvement, for example. But I don't think you can just clear Quinn of any responsibility for the gaffes.
If none of these errors are attributable to Quinn, that makes it seem like it's not the ST coach's job to prevent/correct mistakes or instruct on rules and in-game reactions. If that's the case, what exactly is the ST coach's job? Do we really need a ST coach? Does anyone?