First order of business

He's not going anywhere imo..Sullivan as an OC should be let go or brought back as Eli's QB coach as his sole responsibility..Don't know all that much about KG Jr...

so he's supposed to make Brad Wing punt better? Quinn was responsible for that yesterday no doubt.

And let Rainey know not to try to make a play on that ball? Should have told him before the KO.

Oh...and draw a better coverage scheme on the punt and KO returns?

I'm sure glad Robbie Gould didn't miss any FGs yesterday.........Quinn obviously coached him up before the game.

Specials were good all year...You going to fire a guy because his punter had a rough day in 12 degree weather?

I think they need a guy to focus on the offense....going from top ten to bottom ten is a red flag with no real major changed in personnel.

Killdrive Jr??? who knows.

In comment 13316911 Big Blue '56 said:

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He's not going anywhere imo..Sullivan as an OC should be let go or brought back as Eli's QB coach as his sole responsibility..Don't know all that much about KG Jr...

.

Brad Wing did a good job with special teams excluding yesterday. They were bad returning punts and kicks,
more stupid penalties. It's long overdue for Quinn,
A guy is a OC, not going to come back to the team as a
QB coach, it doesn't happen in this league.

In comment 13316917 BillKo said:

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so he's supposed to make Brad Wing punt better? Quinn was responsible for that yesterday no doubt. And let Rainey know not to try to make a play on that ball? Should have told him before the KO. Oh...and draw a better coverage scheme on the punt and KO returns? I'm sure glad Robbie Gould didn't miss any FGs yesterday.........Quinn obviously coached him up before the game.

.


I am talking about 5 or 6 years, not one game.
Some of us aren't that shallow or short sighted.
Believe me, disappointed they lost yesterday,
but I get over losses quickly now.
You have to look at everything when talking about ST's,
to me at least. I mentioned these three guys weeks ago on BBI, for the record.

Specials were better this year because we had better overall talent on coverages, but how many boneheaded penalties and plays did we have on specials this season? Washington game Adams nullifies a fumble. Harris with terrible decisions on returns all season long. Two OBj TDs called back due to penalties. On and on. And Rainey's decision yesterday, just another bad decision among many by a Giants return man.

Maybe my standards are high because I know what a great special teams coach looks like. Dave Toub who was with Reid, and then Lovie Smith, and now Reid again, and the special teams he coaches are always worlds better than what we field.

In comment 13316928 Carson53 said:

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They were bad returning punts and kicks,

They were 7th in the league in kick returns. (No argument on punts, there were near the bottom of the league).

Specials were improved this season, if he survived las season he's certainly surviving this season. As for KGII, Tye's not a dumpster fire, Adams was a rookie and no one in the world could make Larry Donnell not absolutely suck on all levels. I do agree that Sullivan is not right for the OC position in that he comes from a system completely different than McAdoo's. Ben should hire a WC guy and hand over the Denny's menu. Eli has a great relationship with Sullivan, I'd like to see him go back to his QB coach role, give him some inflated title like Assistant HC-QB's. The two Assistants I'm not impressed with are both new, Cignetti the QB coach and Solari have the OL coach. Realistically after winning 11 games I'm not anticipating any coaching changes.

Wang was the issue with line-drive punts.

I think Sullivan either conflicts with Ben or isn't prepared to be OC.

Excise the Coughlin element from our ranks! Purge the indidels! TEs didn't improve? How about TEs, who have no business being in the NFL, played a little better in spots. This was a low interest area by Reese. He played it cheap. Tye did a couple things. Adams, a very raw bean pole, was not teady. Donnell will never be. Get a real player in 17.

As for Quinn, he couldn't kick the ball for Gould & Wing. They seemed to think they were kicking a brick yesterday. Quinn did a good job in 16. Harris is no longer a punt returner. Beckham should be utilized on rare occasions. But the gunners were solid this year. The Giants blocked a couple of FGs. Quinn should stay.

Who goes? Maybe Ryan because Mara probably woke up this morning with a hair across his ass so somebody will have to pay for Eli's fuck ups, as per usual. Other than that, McAdoo would be well served to retain everyone , unless some guys get promotions .

he was only here as insurance in case McAdoo went into a fetal position during the season.

In comment 13317060 RetroJint said:

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Excise the Coughlin element from our ranks! Purge the indidels! TEs didn't improve? How about TEs, who have no business being in the NFL, played a little better in spots. This was a low interest area by Reese. He played it cheap. Tye did a couple things. Adams, a very raw bean pole, was not teady. Donnell will never be. Get a real player in 17. As for Quinn, he couldn't kick the ball for Gould & Wing. They seemed to think they were kicking a brick yesterday. Quinn did a good job in 16. Harris is no longer a punt returner. Beckham should be utilized on rare occasions. But the gunners were solid this year. The Giants blocked a couple of FGs. Quinn should stay. Who goes? Maybe Ryan because Mara probably woke up this morning with a hair across his ass so somebody will have to pay for Eli's fuck ups, as per usual. Other than that, McAdoo would be well served to retain everyone , unless some guys get promotions .

"Eli's fuck ups as per usual?" Explain please. Is the implication that Coughlin paid for Eli's fuck ups? Is the O-line paying for Eli's fuck ups? Did receivers drop passes because of Eli's fuck ups? Is Eli fucking up the running game?

as to why we fired a TE coach who made Jake Ballard and Kevin Boss productive targets.

In comment 13317176 HomerJones45 said:

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he was only here as insurance in case McAdoo went into a fetal position during the season.

Agreed, unless he consents to working exclusively with Eli..He did a very good job in that role with him..Otherwise let him go

To below average coach. For years under coughlin the teams specials were - well not special. That's why Reese gave a boatload of money to a player who is on the field less than 10 plays per game. That solved one problem but the real issue in my opinion is can a ST coach take rookies and journeymen players and consistently "tilt the field" as we used to say by blocking up returns and staying in lanes and tackling WITHOUT holding. Quinn has never done this consistently even with Harris on the team although kick coverage has improved. In other words, give Quinn really good players and his specials look good. Give him average players and he's not so good. That's not good coaching. Also, who put Rainey on the field in the first place? Dont the Giants gave drills for balls kicked along the sideline? Also Right after the King catch Gould hits a pop up kickoff to the center of the field? Gould was kicking to the goal line before that so it looked planned to me. The returner caught in full stride at the 13 and Rogers is almost at midfield already. My instinct was that Quinn called for that too maybe thinking to pin them down inside the 20.

now on the topic of Sullivan, I hope Mac gives his duties of play calling to an established OC..not Sullivan. As said, Sullivan can stay for Eli (QB coach) or leave..imo

but unfortunately, if he hasn't been fired yet, he won't be fired after this season.
He should have been fired immediately after the Meltdown.

If you've watched a bunch of other NFL games this year, you've seen multiple kick returners on similar plays alertly stick a foot out of bounds before fielding a ball like that so as to make it a penalty on the opposition. I've said out loud in discussion with friends that I was watching with that the Giants would never be heady enough to pull off that play. Instead, he not only doesn't make the bonus play....he does one of the dumber things I've seen a returner do in a while.

Absolutely an indictment of the coaching/preparation. My sense from Quinn's ST units over the years is that he does in fact do nice work with kickers (Matt F'in Dodge notwithstanding), but that the situational preparation in particular is pretty poor.

After an 11-5 season?

In comment 13317210 Chris in Philly said:

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as to why we fired a TE coach who made Jake Ballard and Kevin Boss productive targets.

+1

In comment 13317961 Giantfan in skinland said:

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If you've watched a bunch of other NFL games this year, you've seen multiple kick returners on similar plays alertly stick a foot out of bounds before fielding a ball like that so as to make it a penalty on the opposition. I've said out loud in discussion with friends that I was watching with that the Giants would never be heady enough to pull off that play. Instead, he not only doesn't make the bonus play....he does one of the dumber things I've seen a returner do in a while. Absolutely an indictment of the coaching/preparation. My sense from Quinn's ST units over the years is that he does in fact do nice work with kickers (Matt F'in Dodge notwithstanding), but that the situational preparation in particular is pretty poor.

Exactly

is the idea that it's easier to replace coaches than it is players. Which is the reason that head coaches get fired when the problem could easily be lack of talent.

In real terms, though, Quinn, hasn't done anything to warrant his dismissal this season than he has in any other year. And if anything, the quality of play more strongly supports retaining him.

People keep calling for Quinn's head because they can't stand their uninformed views about how to win football games aren't being validated.

fora Mara to Fire a Quinn.

Also the pictures would get published.

have not been properly prepared for years...and that falls on Quinn. Has nothing to do with how Wing punted in one game. We've been losing that aspect of the game consistently.

Tye was an undrafted free agent and Adams was a 6th round pick. What did you expect from them?

No on the other 2.

In comment 13317703 greatgrandpa said:

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To below average coach. For years under coughlin the teams specials were - well not special.

I'm not here to defend Quinn, but the biggest problem with specials was Reese's roster. Too many older vets who weren't a great fit for ST's, and then when the inevitable injury bug hit, ST's went from bad to worse.

were paying attention when the erstwhile GM said special teams play was "up and down" this year.
He could have said for the last 5 years if he wanted too.
Just because you make the playoffs, doesn't mean you can't replace a couple of people on the coaching staff.
You know, don't look back...somebody might be gaining on you.

They havent been a disaster, maybe above average overall the last couple of years, but nothing "special".

I think its time to move on from Quinn

In comment 13316984 Mad Mike said:

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In comment 13316928 Carson53 said: Quote: They were bad returning punts and kicks, They were 7th in the league in kick returns. (No argument on punts, there were near the bottom of the league).

What metric are you using? I see them as 15th in overall kick return yardage and 10th in average.

The problem I had with the kick return game was how frequently Harris brought the ball out from 3-4 yards deep in the end zone. It was as if he honestly didn't know that touchbacks had been moved to the 25.

In comment 13320395 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 13316984 Mad Mike said: Quote: In comment 13316928 Carson53 said: Quote: They were bad returning punts and kicks, They were 7th in the league in kick returns. (No argument on punts, there were near the bottom of the league). What metric are you using? I see them as 15th in overall kick return yardage and 10th in average. The problem I had with the kick return game was how frequently Harris brought the ball out from 3-4 yards deep in the end zone. It was as if he honestly didn't know that touchbacks had been moved to the 25.

2016 Kick Return Stats - ( New Window )

In comment 13320400 Gatorade Dunk said:

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In comment 13320395 Gatorade Dunk said: Quote: In comment 13316984 Mad Mike said: Quote: In comment 13316928 Carson53 said: Quote: They were bad returning punts and kicks, They were 7th in the league in kick returns. (No argument on punts, there were near the bottom of the league). What metric are you using? I see them as 15th in overall kick return yardage and 10th in average. The problem I had with the kick return game was how frequently Harris brought the ball out from 3-4 yards deep in the end zone. It was as if he honestly didn't know that touchbacks had been moved to the 25. 2016 Kick Return Stats - ( New Window )

Nevermind, I answered my own question - I was looking at kick coverage stats, not returns. My apologies.

I still stand by my anecdotal view of Harris' returns this year though.