Carl Banks is on with Joe and Evan right now and he is saying Flowers has to get much better. They asked him if he should be moved and he said they should explore all options. Have a plan in place if he can't get the job done but they can't wait until the draft to figure it out. Again, this is Carl's opinion and one that is shared by many here which is that he should be moved to Right Tackle.
But the million dollar question is do the Giants think he should be moved?
I guess time will tell...
He wouldn't be the 1st young OT to be moved (I know BBI struggles with that)
Seriously... Yes he is bad in pass protection. But the physical traits are there. Do the Giants think they can continue to coach him up? Can he be a decent LT in pass protection?
Another question . . will the Giants continue to transition to a more run focused offense?
This is one thing I like very much about Mac. Promoted Perkins. Yanks Adams out of a game if not doing the job.......Cruz also to some extent. Donnell.
TC was sometimes accused of that.
I think Flowers should be moved to RT. His play, although good 90% of the time is completely unacceptable the other 10%, and that kills your offense.
I don't know if he is a RT or guard but he isn't moving Pugh out of the LG spot as that seems to be the only OL spot where the Giants have a very capable starter they can be confident in going into 2017.
What's the alternative? Leave him at LT and pray he doesn't suck ass for the rest of his rookie deal?
To be fair to the Giants front office, the bust rate for high LT picks is pretty great, and he's certainly not a bust. There are plenty of other teams that tried a player at LT but wound up with a fine guard instead. And if that's what happens with Ereck, and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I think he could be one hell of a guard!
The problem seems to be the curse of athleticism... meaning he got by on superior strength and athleticism all of his football life, and he just seems to stubborn to do what has to be done with humility to correct it. That's what sets the great athletes apart in the NFL, the will to do what it takes to play at the NFL level.
Shameful.
Scherff, Martin, TJ Lang. These are all players that come to recent mind that were college Left Tackles that play RG in the NFL. All are Pro Bowlers this year. Not guaranteeing it for Flowers but his career looks much brighter from the inside. He doesn't have the technique or foot speed to compete from the outside. Time for a change big boy.
Maybe B in ALB, Sy can shed some light on this?
I personally think his technique is the issue and time and coaching should help but I still think he should be moved to the right side, right tackle in particular.
The problem seems to be the curse of athleticism... meaning he got by on superior strength and athleticism all of his football life, and he just seems to stubborn to do what has to be done with humility to correct it. That's what sets the great athletes apart in the NFL, the will to do what it takes to play at the NFL level.
Good post Johnny
+1
It's taken the Giants too long to see it.
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It's taken the Giants too long to see it.
When he was drafted the Giants still had Beatty. By all accounts it looked like Flowers was going to the right side or was going to have to beat Beatty for that spot.
Beatty went down for the entire 2015 season and the rest is history.
The Giants might actually have had a very good plan that fell apart almost immediately.
LG #1pick (Backups Newhouse or UFA)
OC Richburg (B. Jones)
RG Flowers (he can be above average here like Scherff)
RT Hart (Newhouse or UFA plus draft pick developmental)
Now, we may pursue OL'men in UFA like OG Leary of the Cowboys. If we sign him over RG Jerry we upgrade our run game for sure.
If Pugh is a 50% upgrade in pass protection and is solid run blocking our offense improves by leaps and bounds. Pugh has good technique but short arms for LT or RT.
JonC, brilliant observation if you ask me. Sometimes the simple reality makes the most impact. I wonder who is evaluating our OL talent.
The best hope is that Flowers can play the position he was initially drafted to play. RT, and maybe one day eventually LT.
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knew he needed to be moved to the right side pretty soon after he was drafted.
It's taken the Giants too long to see it.
When he was drafted the Giants still had Beatty. By all accounts it looked like Flowers was going to the right side or was going to have to beat Beatty for that spot.
Beatty went down for the entire 2015 season and the rest is history.
The Giants might actually have had a very good plan that fell apart almost immediately.
Good post. BBI screams "FLOWERS IS A RT!!! I KNEW IT"
All while ignoring he was supposed to be the RT. Then Beatty got hurt lifting weights.
i) I don't "get" why EF's problems at LT would vanish or substantially diminish at RT. There are plenty of effective and speed rushers at LDE; the only benefit is that Eli would have a little more advanced warning and direct visual cues before moving/ducking to try to escape the rush. RG seems to be a more promising option where EF's limitations would not be so exposed, no?
ii) Further, with first Flaherty and now Solari, two respected OL Coaches with pedigree but different approaches, EF has not thrived, to say the least, under either. To my mind this raises real questions as to EF's demeanor and teachability; he may be stuck in a place where he cannot effectively be reached.
iii) As to your earlier post re. using the 9th and 19th (Pugh) for two guards, I couldn't agree more: by way of comparison, Bakhtiari, a very effective game vs. OV, a 4th Round pick (Brewer round, for further comparison) in 2013 (we picked Moore in the 3rd and Nassib the very next pick after Bakhtiari...and so it goes).
Sy'56 : 12/22/2016 12:31 pm : link
He just doesn't have the combination of tools and skills that are necessary. The issue is...his problems could still show up at RT. The gap between LT and RT demands is not as great as it once was.
The advantage of putting him at RT (as soon as next year) is at least Eli will see what is coming at him. You can tell Manning just doesn't drop back deep with confidence his blind side is safe.
I might opt to try him at RG before RT...although playing inside is foreign to him. He has a similar skill/tool set to John Jerry...and I'll even say Flowers has more talent and upside in there.
What should NYG do at LT? Honestly, I don't know yet. We have to see what shakes free in the UFA period. This isn't going to be a great LT class draft-wise. In all honesty, I may rather have Pugh at LT than anyone else on this team.
To sum that up, Flowers is a bad LT that will hold this offense back. He needs to be moved this offseason. I would even throw out some feelers for a trade to teams looking for OL help. Someone can easily fall in love with his tools and youth.
Word.
Absolutely. But are they actually every going to move him?! Because he absolutely can not be a LT next year. Just can't.
He's only been in the league 2 years. At this point, they know what they've got.
When do you think they should have moved him? Who is our LT?
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not "every."
He's only been in the league 2 years. At this point, they know what they've got.
When do you think they should have moved him? Who is our LT?
This is the year they should move him. And looking back on it, I don't think they could've done much worse than Flowers at LT this past season. Lucky Eli didn't get killed out there, tbh. Terrible, terrible LT.
Carl's exact quote was: "he has to prove this coming spring at the earliest that he's appreciably better, not marginally better"
Agree. If he became a perennial All Pro at RG would that be a waste of a #9 pick?
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but even that would be a move this regime has been slow to make in the past.
Hey, Jon (how you doing, bw for '17): I'd like to reply by combining two posts I made in other threads, short version:
i) I don't "get" why EF's problems at LT would vanish or substantially diminish at RT. There are plenty of effective and speed rushers at LDE; the only benefit is that Eli would have a little more advanced warning and direct visual cues before moving/ducking to try to escape the rush. RG seems to be a more promising option where EF's limitations would not be so exposed, no?
ii) Further, with first Flaherty and now Solari, two respected OL Coaches with pedigree but different approaches, EF has not thrived, to say the least, under either. To my mind this raises real questions as to EF's demeanor and teachability; he may be stuck in a place where he cannot effectively be reached.
iii) As to your earlier post re. using the 9th and 19th (Pugh) for two guards, I couldn't agree more: by way of comparison, Bakhtiari, a very effective game vs. OV, a 4th Round pick (Brewer round, for further comparison) in 2013 (we picked Moore in the 3rd and Nassib the very next pick after Bakhtiari...and so it goes).
CHP, Happy New Year! A bit past my pay grade but most offenses are right handed, and run heavy behind the RG-RT. It also becomes easier to put an extra blocker on that side, be it an inline TE or simply a TE or RB chip before releasing as a valve option. The whole premise of the LT importance is playing on the island, little to no help, protect the blind side and essentially force the defense to bring more bodies in order to attack that side of the LOS.
Not sure RT is an answer for him, but in terms of moving parts on the football with live bullets flying, it's a role they can do more to scheme and help him. Ultimately, it's on him to clean up his footwork, hand placements and punch, and get his head out of his arse.
2) That said, once they moved him last year I felt they had to stick with that investment. Now, after 2 years, it is obvious he is not anywhere near a top flight LT. In fact, I think he regressed this year.
3) The big question should be whether they still view him as a RT. If not, do they move him to RG, flip him and Pugh, move him, of have him as OL #6?
If I was Eli, I'd tell them to get another QB if that SOB is back at LT. Two years in the league and he is probably worse than when he started.
He is another mental midget with all kinds of talent and a five cent brain.
Won't a lot of what he struggles with at LT show there as well?
Whatever the move, the Giants need to think about a new LT in 2017 if they are going to make any kind of jump.
And Wilson is constantly on the run..........they certainly benefit from having a very mobile QB.
I'll donate $ to your favorite charity if you stop posting.
Its better to have a solid guard then to have the worst LT in the NFL with your 9th pick.. Cut your loses and may be he can be a great RG..
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with not much experience yet they rammed the ball down Detroit's throat and still seem to score a lot of points. It may not just be talent...there are other teams with seemingly poor talent that do a lot better than us.
And Wilson is constantly on the run..........they certainly benefit from having a very mobile QB.
Wilson has been dealing with a High Ankle and Knee injury this year, as a result of his Oline!
His only hope is to move to guard.
Robert Gallery was drafted second overall and moved to guard.
It's not crazy. The guy has the worst feet I have ever seen.
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to get two OGs, someone should lose their job(s).
Its better to have a solid guard then to have the worst LT in the NFL with your 9th pick.. Cut your loses and may be he can be a great RG..
Too soon for that, he's 22 years old.
I thpught Ereck Flowers was a good pick where we picked, but never saw him has a LT. His combine he looked plodding, but powerful. His footwork I thought was good FOR HIS SIZE and the power aspect of his game. But he was not a LT. He was basically the polar opposite if TJ Clemmings coming out of the draft. I think a move to RT would make him a perrenial top 5 player at his position.
I think we need to move Pugh over to LT and draft his replacement at guard.
If you've determined they're maxed out, so be it. I highly doubt the team's at that point yet, and neither am I.
If you've determined they're maxed out, so be it. I highly doubt the team's at that point yet, and neither am I.
Reese's quote indicates the status of his patience.
This is a close to an admission that Flowers will NOT be a LT next year that you will ever hear from JR.
Leave him at LT? I don't think so. Move him to guard? Don't guards have to be nimble on their feet?
Bottom line, IMO, is the Giants f'ed up big time drafting him with the 9th overall pick in 2015. Now they are stuck with him b/c no one will admit to such a huge blunder.
Very difficult situation here.
At this point I'm not prepared to definitively say that he is or isn't anything.
I will admit that LT isn't looking promising, but let's keep some perspective here; When he was drafted we knew he was extremely young, and not a finished product.
That said, it is probably better to decide his best position sooner rather than later.
Yeah I agree... so that makes me think the best LT option we have is Pugh... lol. I wonder what Beatty's deal is... I have not heard anything at all on his status.
Very good point
At this point I'm not prepared to definitively say that he is or isn't anything.
I will admit that LT isn't looking promising, but let's keep some perspective here; When he was drafted we knew he was extremely young, and not a finished product.
That said, it is probably better to decide his best position sooner rather than later.
Good post, as usual. It's a shame it has to be pointed out over and over. (The fact he is 22)
At this point I'm not prepared to definitively say that he is or isn't anything.
I will admit that LT isn't looking promising, but let's keep some perspective here; When he was drafted we knew he was extremely young, and not a finished product.
That said, it is probably better to decide his best position sooner rather than later.
My issue is his technique sucks and he doesn't get any leverage. I thought he was actually decent last year for a rookie and he regressed this year. How many top end tackles didn't produce until year 3? Were there any signs of improvement this season? Anything to build on?
He's had plenty of starts and the Giants have given him plenty of leash to date. I think it's time to consider other options for Flowers.
Some guys are just better fits at other spots. They tried Diehl at OG in '11 and he was terrible. If Flowers can be a good RT or good OG that's not a bad thing -- and it's something the team can build around.