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Will Ereck Flowers really be moved?

EddieNYG : 1/9/2017 11:36 am
Carl Banks is on with Joe and Evan right now and he is saying Flowers has to get much better. They asked him if he should be moved and he said they should explore all options. Have a plan in place if he can't get the job done but they can't wait until the draft to figure it out. Again, this is Carl's opinion and one that is shared by many here which is that he should be moved to Right Tackle.

But the million dollar question is do the Giants think he should be moved?

I guess time will tell...
he gets moved  
PaulBlakeTSU : 1/9/2017 11:38 am : link
on every play
Probably  
Johnny5 : 1/9/2017 11:40 am : link
He was a big problem for most of the year. And he has really not improved on his technique. I am not sure he would be effective at RT, his technique would still suck on speed rushes. They have to do something. We'll be one and done until the offensive line gets better and more consistent.
I'd be surprised if he is the 2017 LT.  
drkenneth : 1/9/2017 11:40 am : link
He needs to be moved RT/RG.

He wouldn't be the 1st young OT to be moved (I know BBI struggles with that)
MacAdoo showed he's open to change  
Rocky369 : 1/9/2017 11:43 am : link
when he started Perkins in a playoff game. I would be surprised at this point if Ben keeps Flowers at LT next year.
needs to be moved  
commonthe0ry : 1/9/2017 11:44 am : link
to RG or RT IMMEDIATELY!
With all of the penalties,  
barens : 1/9/2017 11:44 am : link
he may have to be moved to the bench. Funny, we get a little spoiled, but under Tom Coughlin, thee weren't many false starts, this year, it seemed like an endless amount, especially from Flowers. That is unacceptable whether he is the left or right tackle.
I think  
geemanfan : 1/9/2017 11:44 am : link
He needs to get into the Bentley school and work on his technique. He had the excuse of the high ankle sprain for no off season training last season.
Banks made it sound like  
Giants2012 : 1/9/2017 11:45 am : link
Flowers has to prove he can play OL, nevermind OT.

My guess is he is at LT  
AnnapolisMike : 1/9/2017 11:45 am : link
wouldn't be the first time a young guy got better :-)

Seriously... Yes he is bad in pass protection. But the physical traits are there. Do the Giants think they can continue to coach him up? Can he be a decent LT in pass protection?

Another question . . will the Giants continue to transition to a more run focused offense?
RE: MacAdoo showed he's open to change  
BillKo : 1/9/2017 11:47 am : link
In comment 13316941 Rocky369 said:
Quote:
when he started Perkins in a playoff game. I would be surprised at this point if Ben keeps Flowers at LT next year.


This is one thing I like very much about Mac. Promoted Perkins. Yanks Adams out of a game if not doing the job.......Cruz also to some extent. Donnell.

TC was sometimes accused of that.

I think Flowers should be moved to RT. His play, although good 90% of the time is completely unacceptable the other 10%, and that kills your offense.
Depends on a few things. 1)do they think he can clean up his technique  
Victor in CT : 1/9/2017 11:47 am : link
issues? and 2) Can they find a better alternative for 2017? I have no problem moving any player if it improves the team, but first tell me who the alternative is.
Who says he would succeed at RT?  
Renton : 1/9/2017 11:47 am : link
His technique is horrendous and shows no sign of improving.
He's a guard  
HoustonGiant : 1/9/2017 11:48 am : link
He doesn't use his length, refuses to extend his arms. He needs to play close to the defender. Any time the defender has distance he is easily beaten on speed rushes.
I think he could be a good guard  
Carl in CT : 1/9/2017 11:48 am : link
With his size and strength and lack of mobility. See the sherif on Washington. It only took the 8 games to figure it out not two years like us.
If they spent a #9 and and #19 overall picks  
JonC : 1/9/2017 11:49 am : link
to get two OGs, someone should lose their job(s).
He does need to be moved off LT  
bceagle05 : 1/9/2017 11:49 am : link
but the scary thing is you won't really know for sure if he "takes" to another position until preseason games, and by then your hands are tied. As others have articulated, I can't imagine his issues will be resolved at RT. The Clay Matthews of the league will just line up on that side and whip his ass. Maybe you can hide him at RG?
He needs to be moved and given competition  
Patrick77 : 1/9/2017 11:51 am : link
Put him on the right side and have him compete with Hart, Jones, a FA (or re-signed starter), and a draft pick.

I don't know if he is a RT or guard but he isn't moving Pugh out of the LG spot as that seems to be the only OL spot where the Giants have a very capable starter they can be confident in going into 2017.
RE: If they spent a #9 and and #19 overall picks  
WillVAB : 1/9/2017 11:53 am : link
In comment 13316967 JonC said:
Quote:
to get two OGs, someone should lose their job(s).


What's the alternative? Leave him at LT and pray he doesn't suck ass for the rest of his rookie deal?
I can't begin to understand...  
lugnut : 1/9/2017 11:53 am : link
why he still needs to be "coached up" on technique and what sound like position fundamentals at this stage of his career. You can say he's young and "just" a second-year guy, but fer eff's sake aren't the core elements of the job the same at the high school, college, and pro levels? If you don't know the basics by the time of the Draft then how the eff do you get drafted? (By being 330 pounds and doing more bench-press reps than anyone else, I guess?)
Perhaps they find a LT and kick EF to RT  
JonC : 1/9/2017 11:53 am : link
but even that would be a move this regime has been slow to make in the past.
I thought he looked more like a guard or RT before he was drafted.  
TC : 1/9/2017 11:57 am : link
And was pleasantly surprised when he managed to survive last season at LT. But he really doesn't seem to have progressed much, and most NFL LT's I see have much quicker feet while moving with DE's.

To be fair to the Giants front office, the bust rate for high LT picks is pretty great, and he's certainly not a bust. There are plenty of other teams that tried a player at LT but wound up with a fine guard instead. And if that's what happens with Ereck, and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I think he could be one hell of a guard!

RE: I can't begin to understand...  
Johnny5 : 1/9/2017 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13316986 lugnut said:
Quote:
why he still needs to be "coached up" on technique and what sound like position fundamentals at this stage of his career. You can say he's young and "just" a second-year guy, but fer eff's sake aren't the core elements of the job the same at the high school, college, and pro levels? If you don't know the basics by the time of the Draft then how the eff do you get drafted? (By being 330 pounds and doing more bench-press reps than anyone else, I guess?)

The problem seems to be the curse of athleticism... meaning he got by on superior strength and athleticism all of his football life, and he just seems to stubborn to do what has to be done with humility to correct it. That's what sets the great athletes apart in the NFL, the will to do what it takes to play at the NFL level.
He's the offensive twin to  
Blue Moon : 1/9/2017 12:05 pm : link
The William Joseph saga of years past. High draft pick taken on promise with no technique to play the position. Will hang around based solely to save face and then be cast adrift.

Shameful.
RG  
sjnyfan : 1/9/2017 12:08 pm : link
They really have no choice and Jerry is a FA anyway.

Scherff, Martin, TJ Lang. These are all players that come to recent mind that were college Left Tackles that play RG in the NFL. All are Pro Bowlers this year. Not guaranteeing it for Flowers but his career looks much brighter from the inside. He doesn't have the technique or foot speed to compete from the outside. Time for a change big boy.
I have always heard that a Left Tackle needs long arms and Good feet  
Rjanyg : 1/9/2017 12:08 pm : link
and it seems that Flowers issues are due to his technique, bending at the waist, lowering his head as opposed to bending at the knees. Is his problem more of a lack of talent, tools or skill?

Maybe B in ALB, Sy can shed some light on this?

I personally think his technique is the issue and time and coaching should help but I still think he should be moved to the right side, right tackle in particular.
RE: RE: I can't begin to understand...  
Giants2012 : 1/9/2017 12:09 pm : link
In comment 13317008 Johnny5 said:
Quote:


The problem seems to be the curse of athleticism... meaning he got by on superior strength and athleticism all of his football life, and he just seems to stubborn to do what has to be done with humility to correct it. That's what sets the great athletes apart in the NFL, the will to do what it takes to play at the NFL level.


Good post Johnny

+1


I think most here ...  
Csonka : 1/9/2017 12:12 pm : link
knew he needed to be moved to the right side pretty soon after he was drafted.
It's taken the Giants too long to see it.
Flowers  
Joeguido : 1/9/2017 12:13 pm : link
had 13 penalties called against him one face mask, four false starts (team had 14) and 8 holding calls (team had 18), almost half of the holding calls from the OL were his. Put the link in but not sure if I did it right.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: I think most here ...  
Patrick77 : 1/9/2017 12:15 pm : link
In comment 13317048 Csonka said:
Quote:
knew he needed to be moved to the right side pretty soon after he was drafted.
It's taken the Giants too long to see it.


When he was drafted the Giants still had Beatty. By all accounts it looked like Flowers was going to the right side or was going to have to beat Beatty for that spot.

Beatty went down for the entire 2015 season and the rest is history.

The Giants might actually have had a very good plan that fell apart almost immediately.
For better or worse, this is what I think happens  
SGMen : 1/9/2017 12:17 pm : link
LT Pugh (Backups Beatty,Newhouse or UFA, E. Flowers)
LG #1pick (Backups Newhouse or UFA)
OC Richburg (B. Jones)
RG Flowers (he can be above average here like Scherff)
RT Hart (Newhouse or UFA plus draft pick developmental)

Now, we may pursue OL'men in UFA like OG Leary of the Cowboys. If we sign him over RG Jerry we upgrade our run game for sure.

If Pugh is a 50% upgrade in pass protection and is solid run blocking our offense improves by leaps and bounds. Pugh has good technique but short arms for LT or RT.
RE: If they spent a #9 and and #19 overall picks  
Emil : 1/9/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13316967 JonC said:
Quote:
to get two OGs, someone should lose their job(s).


JonC, brilliant observation if you ask me. Sometimes the simple reality makes the most impact. I wonder who is evaluating our OL talent.

The best hope is that Flowers can play the position he was initially drafted to play. RT, and maybe one day eventually LT.
RE: RE: I think most here ...  
drkenneth : 1/9/2017 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13317061 Patrick77 said:
Quote:
In comment 13317048 Csonka said:


Quote:


knew he needed to be moved to the right side pretty soon after he was drafted.
It's taken the Giants too long to see it.



When he was drafted the Giants still had Beatty. By all accounts it looked like Flowers was going to the right side or was going to have to beat Beatty for that spot.

Beatty went down for the entire 2015 season and the rest is history.

The Giants might actually have had a very good plan that fell apart almost immediately.


Good post. BBI screams "FLOWERS IS A RT!!! I KNEW IT"

All while ignoring he was supposed to be the RT. Then Beatty got hurt lifting weights.
I think he should  
SomeFan : 1/9/2017 12:20 pm : link
You need someone much more consistent at LT. Even if he only has 2 fuck ups a game, those fuckups are basically a free run at our QB. I don't really see a lot of other LTs with those breakdowns during games.
Whoever thought he was a LT  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/9/2017 12:21 pm : link
sure is a genius.
RE: Perhaps they find a LT and kick EF to RT  
ColHowPepper : 1/9/2017 12:25 pm : link
In comment 13316989 JonC said:
Quote:
but even that would be a move this regime has been slow to make in the past.
Hey, Jon (how you doing, bw for '17): I'd like to reply by combining two posts I made in other threads, short version:
i) I don't "get" why EF's problems at LT would vanish or substantially diminish at RT. There are plenty of effective and speed rushers at LDE; the only benefit is that Eli would have a little more advanced warning and direct visual cues before moving/ducking to try to escape the rush. RG seems to be a more promising option where EF's limitations would not be so exposed, no?
ii) Further, with first Flaherty and now Solari, two respected OL Coaches with pedigree but different approaches, EF has not thrived, to say the least, under either. To my mind this raises real questions as to EF's demeanor and teachability; he may be stuck in a place where he cannot effectively be reached.
iii) As to your earlier post re. using the 9th and 19th (Pugh) for two guards, I couldn't agree more: by way of comparison, Bakhtiari, a very effective game vs. OV, a 4th Round pick (Brewer round, for further comparison) in 2013 (we picked Moore in the 3rd and Nassib the very next pick after Bakhtiari...and so it goes).
From an archived thread on 12/22/16 - Sy responded:  
Diver_Down : 1/9/2017 12:28 pm : link
Quote:
Flowers needs to get away from LT
Sy'56 : 12/22/2016 12:31 pm : link
He just doesn't have the combination of tools and skills that are necessary. The issue is...his problems could still show up at RT. The gap between LT and RT demands is not as great as it once was.

The advantage of putting him at RT (as soon as next year) is at least Eli will see what is coming at him. You can tell Manning just doesn't drop back deep with confidence his blind side is safe.

I might opt to try him at RG before RT...although playing inside is foreign to him. He has a similar skill/tool set to John Jerry...and I'll even say Flowers has more talent and upside in there.

What should NYG do at LT? Honestly, I don't know yet. We have to see what shakes free in the UFA period. This isn't going to be a great LT class draft-wise. In all honesty, I may rather have Pugh at LT than anyone else on this team.

To sum that up, Flowers is a bad LT that will hold this offense back. He needs to be moved this offseason. I would even throw out some feelers for a trade to teams looking for OL help. Someone can easily fall in love with his tools and youth.
Its not like  
Bubba : 1/9/2017 12:30 pm : link
Giants ever drafted Tackles #1 and moved them guard before. William Roberts #27 and Eric Moore #10.
At times he is a dominant tackle  
allstarjim : 1/9/2017 12:38 pm : link
It's just DE's with speed give him trouble. His feet just aren't fast enough. I would move him to RT, and work on getting a dominant guard who can move people in the run game and not be a liability in pass pro, to put next to him. The Giants would be able to own the right side in terms of running the football.
If EF is truly best suited for the right side, so be it.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/9/2017 12:39 pm : link
People need to get over WHERE he was taken..It's over and done with..If EF can wind up having the career Gallery had after being moved, I'd be delighted
RE: If EF is truly best suited for the right side, so be it.  
drkenneth : 1/9/2017 12:40 pm : link
In comment 13317177 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
People need to get over WHERE he was taken..It's over and done with..If EF can wind up having the career Gallery had after being moved, I'd be delighted


Word.
RE: needs to be moved  
djstat : 1/9/2017 12:45 pm : link
In comment 13316945 commonthe0ry said:
Quote:
to RG or RT IMMEDIATELY!
RT I get but why do you think he can play right guard? He plays to high and has poor feet
RE: If EF is truly best suited for the right side, so be it.  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/9/2017 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13317177 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
People need to get over WHERE he was taken..It's over and done with..If EF can wind up having the career Gallery had after being moved, I'd be delighted


Absolutely. But are they actually every going to move him?! Because he absolutely can not be a LT next year. Just can't.
*ever  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/9/2017 12:47 pm : link
not "every."
RE: *ever  
drkenneth : 1/9/2017 12:48 pm : link
In comment 13317225 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
not "every."


He's only been in the league 2 years. At this point, they know what they've got.

When do you think they should have moved him? Who is our LT?
Right Guard  
Rong5611 : 1/9/2017 12:48 pm : link
He needs to be moved to RG. He's proven he's not a LT.
RE: RE: *ever  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/9/2017 12:50 pm : link
In comment 13317240 drkenneth said:
Quote:
In comment 13317225 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


not "every."



He's only been in the league 2 years. At this point, they know what they've got.

When do you think they should have moved him? Who is our LT?


This is the year they should move him. And looking back on it, I don't think they could've done much worse than Flowers at LT this past season. Lucky Eli didn't get killed out there, tbh. Terrible, terrible LT.
RE: Banks made it sound like  
The_Boss : 1/9/2017 12:52 pm : link
In comment 13316951 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
Flowers has to prove he can play OL, nevermind OT.


Carl's exact quote was: "he has to prove this coming spring at the earliest that he's appreciably better, not marginally better"
I think they'll move him in 2017.  
drkenneth : 1/9/2017 12:52 pm : link
They have to.
RE: If EF is truly best suited for the right side, so be it.  
Victor in CT : 1/9/2017 1:00 pm : link
In comment 13317177 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
People need to get over WHERE he was taken..It's over and done with..If EF can wind up having the career Gallery had after being moved, I'd be delighted


Agree. If he became a perennial All Pro at RG would that be a waste of a #9 pick?
Flowers.  
Jerry K : 1/9/2017 1:20 pm : link
Too many penalties, plus he struggles way too much with speed rushes or anything in space. I don't really see why people think he can play RT. He'll have virtually the same problems there. Right guard might be best for him and the team.
RE: RE: Perhaps they find a LT and kick EF to RT  
JonC : 1/9/2017 1:23 pm : link
In comment 13317114 ColHowPepper said:
Quote:
In comment 13316989 JonC said:


Quote:


but even that would be a move this regime has been slow to make in the past.

Hey, Jon (how you doing, bw for '17): I'd like to reply by combining two posts I made in other threads, short version:
i) I don't "get" why EF's problems at LT would vanish or substantially diminish at RT. There are plenty of effective and speed rushers at LDE; the only benefit is that Eli would have a little more advanced warning and direct visual cues before moving/ducking to try to escape the rush. RG seems to be a more promising option where EF's limitations would not be so exposed, no?
ii) Further, with first Flaherty and now Solari, two respected OL Coaches with pedigree but different approaches, EF has not thrived, to say the least, under either. To my mind this raises real questions as to EF's demeanor and teachability; he may be stuck in a place where he cannot effectively be reached.
iii) As to your earlier post re. using the 9th and 19th (Pugh) for two guards, I couldn't agree more: by way of comparison, Bakhtiari, a very effective game vs. OV, a 4th Round pick (Brewer round, for further comparison) in 2013 (we picked Moore in the 3rd and Nassib the very next pick after Bakhtiari...and so it goes).


CHP, Happy New Year! A bit past my pay grade but most offenses are right handed, and run heavy behind the RG-RT. It also becomes easier to put an extra blocker on that side, be it an inline TE or simply a TE or RB chip before releasing as a valve option. The whole premise of the LT importance is playing on the island, little to no help, protect the blind side and essentially force the defense to bring more bodies in order to attack that side of the LOS.

Not sure RT is an answer for him, but in terms of moving parts on the football with live bullets flying, it's a role they can do more to scheme and help him. Ultimately, it's on him to clean up his footwork, hand placements and punch, and get his head out of his arse.

A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 1/9/2017 1:42 pm : link
1) I maintained from the start that he was never drafted with LT in mind. The talk from the Giants after the draft, coupled with his scouting reports always indicated RT. It wasn't until Beatty got hurt that the Giants changed their tune.

2) That said, once they moved him last year I felt they had to stick with that investment. Now, after 2 years, it is obvious he is not anywhere near a top flight LT. In fact, I think he regressed this year.

3) The big question should be whether they still view him as a RT. If not, do they move him to RG, flip him and Pugh, move him, of have him as OL #6?
I think it's clearly established now that Flowers will never be a good  
Heisenberg : 1/9/2017 1:47 pm : link
left tackle. They have to find someone else for his position and find another position for him. He looks so bad in space and on the edge that it's hard not to want to put him at guard, where at least his ability to maul guys might be a real plus. I can't imagine him being much better on the right than he is on the left
Sorry to say I told you so but I have been  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 1/9/2017 1:49 pm : link
saying this since pre-season. Flowers is NOT a LT and he should have been moved, in the summer, to RT. If the Giants do not realize this now, they never will.

If I was Eli, I'd tell them to get another QB if that SOB is back at LT. Two years in the league and he is probably worse than when he started.

He is another mental midget with all kinds of talent and a five cent brain.
Seattle has a terrible OL with a lot of youth and guys  
That’s Gold, Jerry : 1/9/2017 1:53 pm : link
with not much experience yet they rammed the ball down Detroit's throat and still seem to score a lot of points. It may not just be talent...there are other teams with seemingly poor talent that do a lot better than us.
interesting......  
BillKo : 1/9/2017 1:54 pm : link
.....to why many think, including myself, that RT is the answer for Flowers.

Won't a lot of what he struggles with at LT show there as well?

Whatever the move, the Giants need to think about a new LT in 2017 if they are going to make any kind of jump.
RE: Seattle has a terrible OL with a lot of youth and guys  
BillKo : 1/9/2017 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13317519 That’s Gold, Jerry said:
Quote:
with not much experience yet they rammed the ball down Detroit's throat and still seem to score a lot of points. It may not just be talent...there are other teams with seemingly poor talent that do a lot better than us.


And Wilson is constantly on the run..........they certainly benefit from having a very mobile QB.
RE: Seattle has a terrible OL with a lot of youth and guys  
drkenneth : 1/9/2017 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13317519 That’s Gold, Jerry said:
Quote:
with not much experience yet they rammed the ball down Detroit's throat and still seem to score a lot of points. It may not just be talent...there are other teams with seemingly poor talent that do a lot better than us.


I'll donate $ to your favorite charity if you stop posting.
RE: If they spent a #9 and and #19 overall picks  
chuckydee9 : 1/9/2017 2:06 pm : link
In comment 13316967 JonC said:
Quote:
to get two OGs, someone should lose their job(s).


Its better to have a solid guard then to have the worst LT in the NFL with your 9th pick.. Cut your loses and may be he can be a great RG..
I think people read too much into Giants' statements  
Section331 : 1/9/2017 2:09 pm : link
that they will not move Flowers. Of course they're going to say that, they don't want him looking over his shoulder, or let other teams know they are looking for an OLT. Let's see how this FA/draft goes. I'll be surprised, and disappointed, if we don't acquire a LT.
Yes!  
old man : 1/9/2017 2:14 pm : link
And I think he is an NFL starter but he needs to move to a G position with some solid help on the same side (eg, LG getting help at LT) for a year, just to make the adjustment, if nothing else. He's the blocker you run behind in power runs.
RE: RE: Seattle has a terrible OL with a lot of youth and guys  
Simms11 : 1/9/2017 2:42 pm : link
In comment 13317529 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 13317519 That’s Gold, Jerry said:


Quote:


with not much experience yet they rammed the ball down Detroit's throat and still seem to score a lot of points. It may not just be talent...there are other teams with seemingly poor talent that do a lot better than us.



And Wilson is constantly on the run..........they certainly benefit from having a very mobile QB.


Wilson has been dealing with a High Ankle and Knee injury this year, as a result of his Oline!
From the way he has looked at LT  
Glover : 1/9/2017 3:23 pm : link
I have zero faith that he can play RT any better.
His only hope is to move to guard.
Robert Gallery was drafted second overall and moved to guard.
It's not crazy. The guy has the worst feet I have ever seen.
He makes it or he might be out of football  
Giants2012 : 1/9/2017 3:29 pm : link
one year from now.

Reese on Flowers  
jeff57 : 1/9/2017 3:33 pm : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: If they spent a #9 and and #19 overall picks  
JonC : 1/9/2017 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13317595 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 13316967 JonC said:


Quote:


to get two OGs, someone should lose their job(s).



Its better to have a solid guard then to have the worst LT in the NFL with your 9th pick.. Cut your loses and may be he can be a great RG..


Too soon for that, he's 22 years old.
While I am bound to  
chopperhatch : 1/9/2017 3:46 pm : link
Get criticized for "not being a scout" after I say this, I actually do have a pretty discerning eye for athleticism as it pertains to players being able to play at certain positions. No i dont have any credentials so take it for what its worth.

I thpught Ereck Flowers was a good pick where we picked, but never saw him has a LT. His combine he looked plodding, but powerful. His footwork I thought was good FOR HIS SIZE and the power aspect of his game. But he was not a LT. He was basically the polar opposite if TJ Clemmings coming out of the draft. I think a move to RT would make him a perrenial top 5 player at his position.

I think we need to move Pugh over to LT and draft his replacement at guard.
Because he's 22? How old will he be when he's actually good?  
Heisenberg : 1/9/2017 3:47 pm : link
The draft is about upside potential  
JonC : 1/9/2017 3:48 pm : link
and developing players to the position you project. Fans, especially on BBI, have no f'ing patience.

If you've determined they're maxed out, so be it. I highly doubt the team's at that point yet, and neither am I.
On the plus side Flowers went from worst to second worst  
Patrick77 : 1/9/2017 3:54 pm : link
Maybe next year he will be third worst?
I admire your perserverance  
Heisenberg : 1/9/2017 3:55 pm : link
I'm not sure that making a change after 33 starts is fairly described as lack of patience. Flowers' inability to be a decent player at his position is one of the biggest liabilities on the team. Maybe there are signs of progress that I can't see as a layman. But holy hell, he's simply not getting the job done and he has an extremely important job.
Fair enough  
JonC : 1/9/2017 3:58 pm : link
but we see players hit the NFL all the time needing 3, 4, 5 years in order to realize their potential.
RE: The draft is about upside potential  
Giants2012 : 1/9/2017 4:00 pm : link
In comment 13317956 JonC said:
Quote:
and developing players to the position you project. Fans, especially on BBI, have no f'ing patience.

If you've determined they're maxed out, so be it. I highly doubt the team's at that point yet, and neither am I.


Reese's quote indicates the status of his patience.
I can't read twitter at work  
JonC : 1/9/2017 4:04 pm : link
.
. . . .  
Giants2012 : 1/9/2017 4:06 pm : link
Jerry Reese on Ereck Flowers: It's time for him to show fruits of being a 1st-round pick. They'll evaluate whether that is at left tackle
I'm where Reese is  
JonC : 1/9/2017 4:07 pm : link
but at the end of the day, left tackles don't grow on trees and he still may be their only option.
Well, here's the thing. If you can't expect Flowers to do well, which  
Heisenberg : 1/9/2017 4:16 pm : link
is easier? Get a replacement in the offseason or get some kind of backup plan that might be able to fill in should Flowers not improve. It seems to me, the former is easier. The Giants just can't get that kind of bottom of the league production at such an important position. I'd personally overpay for someone who is at least average and find Flowers a new spot.
I don't see any sure-fire answers available on the UFA market  
JonC : 1/9/2017 4:20 pm : link
worth the overpayment you're bound to suffer.
RE: . . . .  
PEEJ : 1/9/2017 4:28 pm : link
In comment 13318005 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
Jerry Reese on Ereck Flowers: It's time for him to show fruits of being a 1st-round pick. They'll evaluate whether that is at left tackle


This is a close to an admission that Flowers will NOT be a LT next year that you will ever hear from JR.
Will Ereck Flowers really be moved?  
mrvax : 1/9/2017 4:51 pm : link
This whole Flowers thing is a dilemma. We've seen 2 full years of him at OLT and to many eyes, he hasn't progressed at all. Shove him over to RT? Now you have the same problem but maybe Eli can see the pass rusher coming? The only benefit of Flowers to RT is maybe a good run blocker on the right.

Leave him at LT? I don't think so. Move him to guard? Don't guards have to be nimble on their feet?

Bottom line, IMO, is the Giants f'ed up big time drafting him with the 9th overall pick in 2015. Now they are stuck with him b/c no one will admit to such a huge blunder.

Very difficult situation here.
I'd like to point out  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/9/2017 5:16 pm : link
that Ereck Flowers is still only 22 years old.

At this point I'm not prepared to definitively say that he is or isn't anything.

I will admit that LT isn't looking promising, but let's keep some perspective here; When he was drafted we knew he was extremely young, and not a finished product.

That said, it is probably better to decide his best position sooner rather than later.
RE: I don't see any sure-fire answers available on the UFA market  
Johnny5 : 1/9/2017 5:20 pm : link
In comment 13318031 JonC said:
Quote:
worth the overpayment you're bound to suffer.

Yeah I agree... so that makes me think the best LT option we have is Pugh... lol. I wonder what Beatty's deal is... I have not heard anything at all on his status.
RE: I'd like to point out  
Giants2012 : 1/9/2017 5:22 pm : link
In comment 13318182 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
that Ereck Flowers is still only 22 years old.



Very good point
RE: I'd like to point out  
drkenneth : 1/9/2017 6:22 pm : link
In comment 13318182 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
that Ereck Flowers is still only 22 years old.

At this point I'm not prepared to definitively say that he is or isn't anything.

I will admit that LT isn't looking promising, but let's keep some perspective here; When he was drafted we knew he was extremely young, and not a finished product.

That said, it is probably better to decide his best position sooner rather than later.


Good post, as usual. It's a shame it has to be pointed out over and over. (The fact he is 22)
J5  
JonC : 1/9/2017 6:27 pm : link
WB hasn't gotten his arse off the pine in two years, and there are other personality things in the mix.
RE: I'd like to point out  
WillVAB : 1/9/2017 8:10 pm : link
In comment 13318182 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
Quote:
that Ereck Flowers is still only 22 years old.

At this point I'm not prepared to definitively say that he is or isn't anything.

I will admit that LT isn't looking promising, but let's keep some perspective here; When he was drafted we knew he was extremely young, and not a finished product.

That said, it is probably better to decide his best position sooner rather than later.


My issue is his technique sucks and he doesn't get any leverage. I thought he was actually decent last year for a rookie and he regressed this year. How many top end tackles didn't produce until year 3? Were there any signs of improvement this season? Anything to build on?

He's had plenty of starts and the Giants have given him plenty of leash to date. I think it's time to consider other options for Flowers.

Some guys are just better fits at other spots. They tried Diehl at OG in '11 and he was terrible. If Flowers can be a good RT or good OG that's not a bad thing -- and it's something the team can build around.
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