Hankins is a nice run stuffer but he generates zero pass rush and is basically a two down player. You never keep a two down player over a guy who can play the run and rush the passer.
I hope the Giants resign Hank but I wouldn't break the bank to do it
This is my thinking as well.
If anyone thinks Hankins is more important, just ask yourself who would get more interest if they hit the open market and who gets more $$.
Clearly that's a DE of JPP's caliber and he should be the 1st priority of the two. Hopefully we keep both but JPP will be harder to replace if we lose him.
You roll the dice and go JPP for one reason: Pass Rusher
Yes, he has been hurt but sometimes you have to just hope a guy has been through his hurts and is ready to put together three or four solid years in a row to get you a championship.
You can't double two excellent pass rushing DE's. You have to pass protect more with TE's and RB's chipping AT THE SAME TIME which takes away from an offense.
DT Hankins, while solid, is a 2 down player. He didn't generate as much push as Snacks even whose job is to stop the run.
I hope we keep both but we keep both at fair prices.
Hankins is a nice run stuffer but he generates zero pass rush and is basically a two down player. You never keep a two down player over a guy who can play the run and rush the passer.
I hope the Giants resign Hank but I wouldn't break the bank to do it
This is my thinking as well.
If anyone thinks Hankins is more important, just ask yourself who would get more interest if they hit the open market and who gets more $$.
Clearly that's a DE of JPP's caliber and he should be the 1st priority of the two. Hopefully we keep both but JPP will be harder to replace if we lose him.
The flaw is that JPP has been an injury waiting to happen the past 3 years. I want both back, they have the money to do it. Screw the future.
Decisions have to be made with the Cowboys rushing attack in mind. I know JPP is good against the run, but the Hankins/Harrison combo is the foundation of the whole defense in my opinion.
JPP is a stud.. and Hankins looks like a good-average level starting DT at best.. and the things that Hankins does best, Snacks does even better by a mile.. we need more of a pass rushing DT..
I'll take JPP.. He is a complete package.. stuffs the run and is a great pass rusher..
He will come cheaper than JPP. Giants will need money to bring in other FA. Hankins has also proven to be able to stay on the field. You can not restrict your ability to bring in other players with a player that has not been able to stay on the field
Who's more valuable? JPP and it's not close. Signing JPP should be the top priority. If he's too costly then let's get Hankins back and hopefully we can draft a DE high.
He's younger, healthier, and was one half of one of the better DTS tandems. While not stellar, we do have more depth and flexibility ar DE to replace JPP, than Hankins at DT.
I think JPP is the more valuable player, but given our depth chart, I'd go Hankins. Seems like forever since we had two reliable tackles on the defensive line. It made the whole defense better.
Obviously, cost is a factor, and if money were no object I'd keep both.
Structure your contracts so when you get the savings with Eli off the payroll the other contracts kick in. It would mean more guaranteed money up front through signing bonus. it would be nice to keep both. Hankins is only 24. JPP 28. Pass rusher vs age. Accorsi would take the Pass rusher. You also have to find some OL and a TE. There are not a lot of people signed for 2018 which will be another factor.
Beckham will get a big contract close enough to Eli retiring so there should be money there for him in a couple of years.
on what our general plans are in FA and what money each player would command. If Hankins will take significantly less money than JPP would then I'd lean towards Hankins, but if JPP is somewhat reasonable (not Vernon money) then I'd want him.
It would be nice to keep both and we likely can if we want.
decline starts the day he get's big money - bet the farm on it.
JPP has made over $35M in his career not including endorsements or playoff $$. why would his decline start now? that next $50M is just de-motivating since with any shred of responsibility/good advice he's close to set for life.
While Hankins on the other hand has made $4M, but JPP is the one who won't be able to handle the big contract?
What evidence do you have to support this or is it just pure baseless speculation?
Hankins is a nice run stuffer but he generates zero pass rush and is basically a two down player. You never keep a two down player over a guy who can play the run and rush the passer.
I hope the Giants resign Hank but I wouldn't break the bank to do it
You saved me some typing. Of course you keep the pass rusher in today's NFL.
What evidence do you have to support this or is it just pure baseless speculation?
The answer is baseless speculation. Often people project their own values onto others and it's often not true. But..don't tell them, they will not listen.
has an impact on the game on a play-by-play basis than JPP. Jenkins is a possible exception, but JPP's impact on run plays undercuts that to a degree.
I can't see how anyone would prefer Hankins, a slightly above average NFL defensive tackle, to JPP, who is, in my opinion, a hall of fame level talent. Not saying he'll make it, but he has that kind of talent.
JPP is THE BEST PLAYER on this entire team, save maybe for OBJ. If you scoff at that, or think that's hyperbole, then there is no use talking any further, because I will just laugh at your opinion.
Hankins is replaceable, and I'd like him back. You cannot, and will not, find someone of JPP's talent to play DE for the NY Giants. It won't happen. He's a game changer on defense and the title of this thread I thought was a joke. And no disrespect or offense to Anakim, because I normally agree with a lot of what you have to say, particularly when discussing the draft, but it's just a silly question to me.
And shut you up right there. He is the best on the D (with Jenkins). I would take Snacks over JPP also.
And you would be wrong on all counts. All great players. Maybe as good of players as JPP, but JPP is a terror against the run and the pass. Collins made INTs this year because JPP got pressure. I accept they are phenomenal players, but JPP is a factor on nearly every defensive snap, and in ways that don't show up always in the box score. Those guys get sexy plays, and Landon Collins was a force in the box this year as well as against the pass, but it's still JPP. The impact he has on the game play to play is more than any of those guys.
Reese would probably say JPP based on his track record.
Personally I'd probably go with Hankins due to cost, age, and expectation. The run defense will be locked down and that's a must if we're going to take down Dallas.
I hate JPP. Have hated him since he blew his hand off, but he finally played well this year and gets hurt again. Cant call him injury prone for a hernia, but he is getting older, and he has had other injuries. Back injuries dont go away.
Hank is a decent player, but like many said, no pass rush. I was hoping for some NASCAR looks in the game yesterday, but I guess not. OH well.
I do however Reese has made plans for that in getting Snacks. JPP is still a great run defender, and provides more as a 3 down player (when healthy) and provides with great pass rush.
I hope we can resign JPP to an incentive based 3-4 year deal based on performance as he has been injured and missed time just about every year. Its the best option.
I do however Reese has made plans for that in getting Snacks. JPP is still a great run defender, and provides more as a 3 down player (when healthy) and provides with great pass rush.
I hope we can resign JPP to an incentive based 3-4 year deal based on performance as he has been injured and missed time just about every year. Its the best option.
I think that's highly unlikely. I would be surprised if he didn't get 5 year offers. I think he will get at least $45 million, and that's probably way too low.
Reese says it's financially possible to bring both back
only because they have a run stuffer in Snacks Harrison.
If they didn't, I would say otherwise.
Of course, they can do what they generally do, draft a
DT in the 2nd Rd., as someone mentioned.
JR thinks they can afford both, we'll see?
The price differential between the two could mean an additional player, which is huge. If it means we can re-sign Robinson and/or one extra player on offense as a result of going with Hankins, I'd take it. JPP will be requiring us to lock in a lot of money for an older player who hasn't played a full season in a while.
I think JPP is still an excellent player and his play against the run vastly improved this year. But, I have a feeling his deal would turn into a bad one in a year or two. I'd rather lose him now and forego some production up front, as opposed to getting 1 good year and then being stifled by the cap hit and declining production.
This may be a time to take a page from Belichick's book and be willing to lose a good player a year early as opposed to holding on a year or two too long.
The three-year age difference is nothing to sneeze at.
If the Giants lose JPP it's not like it's an easy replacement. Last year the Giants had a lot of cap money as did only about 4 teams. This year over half the league has a ton of cap space and it's likely going to continue.
Sign your own and maybe find some help. Wouldn't want to lose JPP and get into bidding wars with half the league this offseason. It's not like last year when money was tighter for many.
I just think he's a dynamic, game-changer. Hankins is younger and also quality so it does make it tough, but I don't think he can blow up a game the way JPP can.
Hankins carries some risk in throwing large dollars at
He's largely unproven, and really struggled when he was the only guy on the line. He had trouble beating double teams, and disappeared last year. Sure, he's younger than JPP, but he needs to play next to Snacks to be effective. You don't throw premium dollars at that IMO. I'd love him back, but I think folks are overrating Hankins.
RE: Hankins carries some risk in throwing large dollars at
He's largely unproven, and really struggled when he was the only guy on the line. He had trouble beating double teams, and disappeared last year. Sure, he's younger than JPP, but he needs to play next to Snacks to be effective. You don't throw premium dollars at that IMO. I'd love him back, but I think folks are overrating Hankins.
Well, he will be playing next to Snacks, so he will be effective in tandem for years to come
that relies on playing next to Snacks big bucks. How nice does that deal look if something happens to Snacks? IMO it's easier to find a Hankins than it is a JPP.
For a more accurate estimate of what these guys will cost you can check out current NFL salaries and current NFL cap space. A lot of money sloshing around this offseason - chasing few good players. A lot of players getting paid big bucks to underproduce as well.
Well, he will be playing next to Snacks, so he will be effective in tandem for years to come
The duo resulted in the Giants run defense being 4 yards from the 2nd ranked run defense overall. Only Dallas was better who often had the league resulting in opponents passing the ball more.
Hankins is only 24 and it was his first year at the #3. Have to sign the guy unless somebody substantially better is out there. Personally, I like the wall of 320lbs+ each rather than roll the dice in hopes something else works as well.
Losing JPP did not hurt as much as I thought it would.
Hankins is a nice run stuffer but he generates zero pass rush and is basically a two down player. You never keep a two down player over a guy who can play the run and rush the passer.
I hope the Giants resign Hank but I wouldn't break the bank to do it
This is my thinking as well.
If anyone thinks Hankins is more important, just ask yourself who would get more interest if they hit the open market and who gets more $$.
Clearly that's a DE of JPP's caliber and he should be the 1st priority of the two. Hopefully we keep both but JPP will be harder to replace if we lose him.
You can't double two excellent pass rushing DE's. You have to pass protect more with TE's and RB's chipping AT THE SAME TIME which takes away from an offense.
DT Hankins, while solid, is a 2 down player. He didn't generate as much push as Snacks even whose job is to stop the run.
I hope we keep both but we keep both at fair prices.
Quote:
And it's not close
Hankins is a nice run stuffer but he generates zero pass rush and is basically a two down player. You never keep a two down player over a guy who can play the run and rush the passer.
I hope the Giants resign Hank but I wouldn't break the bank to do it
This is my thinking as well.
If anyone thinks Hankins is more important, just ask yourself who would get more interest if they hit the open market and who gets more $$.
Clearly that's a DE of JPP's caliber and he should be the 1st priority of the two. Hopefully we keep both but JPP will be harder to replace if we lose him.
The flaw is that JPP has been an injury waiting to happen the past 3 years. I want both back, they have the money to do it. Screw the future.
I'll take JPP.. He is a complete package.. stuffs the run and is a great pass rusher..
Agree with the Turtle man. Love me some JPP but if we had to pick.... hopefully we can keep them both.
Where did you hear this?
Who's more valuable? JPP and it's not close. Signing JPP should be the top priority. If he's too costly then let's get Hankins back and hopefully we can draft a DE high.
Obviously, cost is a factor, and if money were no object I'd keep both.
But based on the money they're likely to get I'm afraid it's Hankins or neither.
Beckham will get a big contract close enough to Eli retiring so there should be money there for him in a couple of years.
We have the potential to be a league-wide once-in-a-decade defense in 2017.
It would be nice to keep both and we likely can if we want.
JPP has made over $35M in his career not including endorsements or playoff $$. why would his decline start now? that next $50M is just de-motivating since with any shred of responsibility/good advice he's close to set for life.
While Hankins on the other hand has made $4M, but JPP is the one who won't be able to handle the big contract?
What evidence do you have to support this or is it just pure baseless speculation?
Hankins is a nice run stuffer but he generates zero pass rush and is basically a two down player. You never keep a two down player over a guy who can play the run and rush the passer.
I hope the Giants resign Hank but I wouldn't break the bank to do it
You saved me some typing. Of course you keep the pass rusher in today's NFL.
The answer is baseless speculation. Often people project their own values onto others and it's often not true. But..don't tell them, they will not listen.
I can't see how anyone would prefer Hankins, a slightly above average NFL defensive tackle, to JPP, who is, in my opinion, a hall of fame level talent. Not saying he'll make it, but he has that kind of talent.
JPP is THE BEST PLAYER on this entire team, save maybe for OBJ. If you scoff at that, or think that's hyperbole, then there is no use talking any further, because I will just laugh at your opinion.
Hankins is replaceable, and I'd like him back. You cannot, and will not, find someone of JPP's talent to play DE for the NY Giants. It won't happen. He's a game changer on defense and the title of this thread I thought was a joke. And no disrespect or offense to Anakim, because I normally agree with a lot of what you have to say, particularly when discussing the draft, but it's just a silly question to me.
And you would be wrong on all counts. All great players. Maybe as good of players as JPP, but JPP is a terror against the run and the pass. Collins made INTs this year because JPP got pressure. I accept they are phenomenal players, but JPP is a factor on nearly every defensive snap, and in ways that don't show up always in the box score. Those guys get sexy plays, and Landon Collins was a force in the box this year as well as against the pass, but it's still JPP. The impact he has on the game play to play is more than any of those guys.
Personally I'd probably go with Hankins due to cost, age, and expectation. The run defense will be locked down and that's a must if we're going to take down Dallas.
Hank is a decent player, but like many said, no pass rush. I was hoping for some NASCAR looks in the game yesterday, but I guess not. OH well.
JPP
I hope we can resign JPP to an incentive based 3-4 year deal based on performance as he has been injured and missed time just about every year. Its the best option.
I hope we can resign JPP to an incentive based 3-4 year deal based on performance as he has been injured and missed time just about every year. Its the best option.
I think that's highly unlikely. I would be surprised if he didn't get 5 year offers. I think he will get at least $45 million, and that's probably way too low.
If they didn't, I would say otherwise.
Of course, they can do what they generally do, draft a
DT in the 2nd Rd., as someone mentioned.
JR thinks they can afford both, we'll see?
This I am on board with, I must say.
I think JPP is still an excellent player and his play against the run vastly improved this year. But, I have a feeling his deal would turn into a bad one in a year or two. I'd rather lose him now and forego some production up front, as opposed to getting 1 good year and then being stifled by the cap hit and declining production.
This may be a time to take a page from Belichick's book and be willing to lose a good player a year early as opposed to holding on a year or two too long.
Sign your own and maybe find some help. Wouldn't want to lose JPP and get into bidding wars with half the league this offseason. It's not like last year when money was tighter for many.
Well, he will be playing next to Snacks, so he will be effective in tandem for years to come
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/defensive-line/
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2017/
http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/
The duo resulted in the Giants run defense being 4 yards from the 2nd ranked run defense overall. Only Dallas was better who often had the league resulting in opponents passing the ball more.
Hankins is only 24 and it was his first year at the #3. Have to sign the guy unless somebody substantially better is out there. Personally, I like the wall of 320lbs+ each rather than roll the dice in hopes something else works as well.