The lesser lights are easy to guess. My take on the more conspicuous ...
* JPP - They won't pay what he will ask
* Cruz - We still love him run he can't run anymore
* Newhouse - Stop-gap player, they MUST find better; my guess Flowers will move to RT and they will draft/trade for a top-tier LT
* Jerry - Looks like mauler, plays like a teddy bear
Then ....
* Donnell - He's afraid to get hit
* Wade - They keep trying to use him, he simply can't play
* Beatty - I had hopes for him, when he came back, but I guess he's done
* Rainey - Vet player making rookie mistakes
* Berhe - All he can do is hit people with his head
I think that Reese will try to re-sign JPP, but if his desire is to be paid like Vernon I too think he's gone.
Jerry & Newhouse stay as BACK-UPs; but no way in heck should we run those two out as starters, on opening day.
Left Tackle - Tell me that isn't a screaming need !! We just can't live with Ereck Flowers horse - collaring DEs anymore.
Losing Langsdorf was a blow, I think Ben wanted Philbin, but Sullivan was forced on him. Dumb move. Get a guru in here.
Jerry did a great job of fixing a horrendous defense in one year (with the draft and free agents) ...
He needs to fix the O-line in 2017.
Newhouse & Jerry are depth only players that were forced into starting positions, unless they are willing to play for league minimum I would not have either back.
Everyone else on your list are fully expendable.
I have loved Victor Cruz and cheered for his comeback, but it's time to say goodbye.....and listening to his postgame interview last night makes me want to expedite his departure (i.e. "next question" when asked about their trip to Florida).
Tough guy, good special teamer, but bad decisions and lack of speed do not equate to the contract he is due for '17.
rush dissipate . The Offense needs the top 3 Picks at least
unless an edge rusher is too good to pass on ...
Agree with the rest .
I think JPP stays, Jerry/New house backup, somewhere; everybody else, adios.
My gut tells me JPP will get money from someone else, big money, and Giants will have to think hard whether it is worth paying him huge dollars when he really hasn't been healthy overall during his career!
I think we figure out ways to re-sign DT Hankins, LB Robinson and OT Newhouse (backup at 4 positions potentially).
I think we lose RG Jerry if he can get starter money elsewhere.
Cuts: WR Cruz, LB JT Thomas and RB Jennings are all cut. I wouldn't mind bringing JT Thomas to camp at league minimum plus incentives as he is FAST and can cover but he is always hurt.
Word. Only way they're back is as backups.
2) If JPP wasn't as good this year as in 2011, he was real close. Seven sacks, three forced fumbles, seven passes batted away at the line, and all kinds of hurries. JPP was the one usually drawing the double teams.
3) With JPP and all the other talent that was added to the defense, it was second in points allowed in the whole league. JPP is arguably the best of the best of the front 7. We have the chance to be as good as Parcell's best defenses. How could any Giant fan not get excited about that?
4) What is with all this fan concern about over paying a player? When the Giants were terrible in the 70s, the fans were all complaining about the cheapness of management in not spending enough for the players. Now we have fans who are telling management not to overpay for great players who can win championships? By all that I've read we have plenty of cap space with JPP and Hankins the only important free agents. More cap to come when they sadly release players like Cruz (who doesn't seem to have faced the reality of his situation yet).
Sorry. Had to do that rant.
Optimus: You read between the lines of NYG contracts as well as anyone here. Their contracts suggest that Jerry and Newhouse were supposed to be the sixth and seventh men, roles for which I think they were well-suited. Other options failed, and we were left with them starting on the right side. I doubt the Giants - or anyone else - will offer them starter money. The hard part is finding better players. We might already have them (Hart and Jones, or Flowers moving to RT), but those options don't seem to inspire much confidence either.
Losing Langsdorf was a blow, I think Ben wanted Philbin, but Sullivan was forced on him. Dumb move. Get a guru in here.
That post contains just enough truth to look plausible, but it doesn't bear close reading. McAdoo and Sullivan worked side-by-side in 2015 as OC and QB Coach under Coughlin, after Langsdorf rejoined Mike Riley in Riley's new job at Nebraska. McAdoo had ample opportunity to assess Sullivan.
I agree that Sullivan's promotion was a ridiculous move: he has no record of success as an OC and little experience in the type of offense the Giants now run; IMO, he gets way too much credit for the blossoming of Eli Manning - which mostly happened while Chris Palmer was here and Sullivan was coaching receivers. As far as I'm concerned, he can't be gone soon enough. But I don't see how you can absolve McAdoo, if you bother to look at the actual timing of Sullivan's return to the team in 2015, as Langsdorf's replacement. Although Sullivan may have been foisted on McAdoo two years ago by Coughlin, there's no evidence that McAdoo couldn't have dumped Sullivan in 2016, along with other Coughlin acolytes like Sean Ryan and Pat Flaherty.
Sullivan does seem to be well-liked among influential members of the organization, from the Maras to Eli Manning. McAdoo probably likes him too. Sullivan is a likable guy, and he fits the image the Giants try to project. Promoting him to fill MacAdoo's previous job was the path of least resistance.
It's OK to say our new head coach made a mistake. Maybe he was guilty of a bit of hubris, thinking he didn't need an offensive genius since he intended to oversee that unit and call the plays anyway, like his mentor McCarthy. Maybe the in-house option simply seemed good enough, at a time when there were bigger problems to solve. What matters now is the next step, not why Mike Sullivan got a chance to keep the seat warm for a year.
Agree....he's going to get his big contract somewhere. Now will other teams with cap space think he's worth what he wants though? Hes had a bunch of injuries in his career and he's not getting any younger. I think the Giants know his value and will offer him a reasonable deal. I'm sure JPP will give them every opportunity to match other offers, as well. Lastly, Reese indicated in his media interview, that he thought there's enough money to sign both Hankins and JPP.
We have two Guards already on the team. Pugh and Flowers.
Anyhow, Manny - I posted in a thread yesterday essentially cutting / not resigning all of those players as well and the "BBI 31337" told me to fuck off or ban me. Reese will explore replacements, I had suggested many of them via Free Agency. They did a good job evaluating FA's last year for Defense, let em do it for offense now.
moves - ( New Window )
Quote:
I can't for the life of me imagine Ben McAdoo actually wanted Mike Sullivan at OC. Did he even know him? Why would he want somebody he didn't know, who didn't know his scheme?
Losing Langsdorf was a blow, I think Ben wanted Philbin, but Sullivan was forced on him. Dumb move. Get a guru in here.
That post contains just enough truth to look plausible, but it doesn't bear close reading. McAdoo and Sullivan worked side-by-side in 2015 as OC and QB Coach under Coughlin, after Langsdorf rejoined Mike Riley in Riley's new job at Nebraska. McAdoo had ample opportunity to assess Sullivan.
I agree that Sullivan's promotion was a ridiculous move: he has no record of success as an OC and little experience in the type of offense the Giants now run; IMO, he gets way too much credit for the blossoming of Eli Manning - which mostly happened while Chris Palmer was here and Sullivan was coaching receivers. As far as I'm concerned, he can't be gone soon enough. But I don't see how you can absolve McAdoo, if you bother to look at the actual timing of Sullivan's return to the team in 2015, as Langsdorf's replacement. Although Sullivan may have been foisted on McAdoo two years ago by Coughlin, there's no evidence that McAdoo couldn't have dumped Sullivan in 2016, along with other Coughlin acolytes like Sean Ryan and Pat Flaherty.
Sullivan does seem to be well-liked among influential members of the organization, from the Maras to Eli Manning. McAdoo probably likes him too. Sullivan is a likable guy, and he fits the image the Giants try to project. Promoting him to fill MacAdoo's previous job was the path of least resistance.
It's OK to say our new head coach made a mistake. Maybe he was guilty of a bit of hubris, thinking he didn't need an offensive genius since he intended to oversee that unit and call the plays anyway, like his mentor McCarthy. Maybe the in-house option simply seemed good enough, at a time when there were bigger problems to solve. What matters now is the next step, not why Mike Sullivan got a chance to keep the seat warm for a year.
I do think there was something weird at play with Philbin. Could just be McAdoo's handling of the press, but if you recall a PC back after BM's hiring, a reporter mentioned Philbin joining the staff, at which point BM says 'oh, is he coming? I didn't know' or something to that effect.
It later turned out that Philbin passed on the Giants job to go to Indy.
Maybe Sullivan was just the default after other option(s) were exhausted?
What is this incredible offer out there that these other teams are going to offer him. What is this outrageous number he is going to ask for. 4-50 with 30M guaranteed is easy for the Giants to do. They can give him the largest signing bonus.
me too
Newhouse is a versatile 6th linemen and should be brought back. I like what I saw from Keenan Robinson as well. The LB unit was the best it has been since Pierce was here.
Leon Hall did a nice job as well. I would bring him back.
rush dissipate . The Offense needs the top 3 Picks at least
unless an edge rusher is too good to pass on ...
Agree with the rest .
Not necessarily - it's not as if this line was any great shakes. Starting from bad, there's pretty much nowhere to go but up.
Knowing how we do things, it's pretty easy to figure out what happened.
As jcn pointed out above, there was a strange narrative around the Philbin speculation. It was originally reported he was being looked at as OC. Then it was reported a few days later to "hold on - it may be as OL Coach".
My guess (and none of us will really know what happened behind closed doors) McAdoo wanted Philbin as OC, the Giants wanted to give it to Sullivan, and we know who wins that argument. So then McAdoo goes back and offers Philbin the OL Coach job, and he chooses IND instead.
Philbin isn't exactly a NYC guy, if he wasn't getting OC $$$ he would rather live in the midwest.
I agree that Cruz, Jerry, Newhouse, Rainey and Harris might go - and I would not weep if they did. But I think Wade will get another shot, and so will Beatty (he's cheap, I believe).
I'm guessing we go OT and Guard in Free Agency, and then draft a WR on Day 2.
$10M from us. And the Cards offered him $11M.
$10M in a prove it year = at least $15M after proving it. Listen to the Giants - they are already talking publicly about re-signing JPP and Hankins. That's a very good sign.
$10M from us. And the Cards offered him $11M.
$10M in a prove it year = at least $15M after proving it. Listen to the Giants - they are already talking publicly about re-signing JPP and Hankins. That's a very good sign.
Keep in mind that the Cards offer was without knowing his medicals - sight unseen so to speak. They saw his limited action with a club, and were willing to take the risk then. Now, every team saw what he can do when recovered from his fireworks ordeal. Teams will line up to secure his services. I hope we are at the front of the line.
Draft a DE (Taco Charlton, Solomon Thomas).
[quote] and let JPP walk. Too many injuries.
Agree.
I expect Donnell, Rainey and Wade will be let go. I think there are or will be other players available with similar talent levels at similar prices and the replacements will probably have the same amount of success, but you gotta mix it up sometimes!!!
he had a serious injury and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that he needs 2 years to get back into the groove. He did show some moves early in the year, and while he doesn't have the explosiveness to garner separation, I think as a backup slot WR / second slot WR, he can still find the holes in the zone, provided there's a true big bodied WR at the flanker position.
Will Beatty is a big fucking mystery. I assume he's done since our offensive line was bad nearly all year and he never came in outside of some special packages. Dude lucked out, 1.1 million to practice and ride the bench on game day.
Everyone else should go.
My issue was that you said they didn't know each other at the time Sullivan became OC, when in fact they had been working together for a year. Sullivan was McAdoo's subordinate in 2015, like Flaherty and Ryan. You actually think John Mara not only protected Sullivan when the others were fired, but forced McAdoo to promote him? Come on. McAdoo had plenty of time to assess Sullivan when they were both working for Coughlin. If McAdoo wanted Sullivan gone, he'd have been gone. Was he McAdoo's first choice as OC? Of course not. But he was acceptable. As jcn56 said, Sullivan was, by all appearances, the fallback, in-house option.
area junc said:
If any of us knew how "we" (meaning Reese and Mara) "do things", it might be easy. None of us know that, so it's not easy at all.
I guess you could call blowing up your hand an injury, but only if you think he's stupid enough to blow up his other hand.
But the money that it will take to retain DRC & Hankins AND rebuild the offensive line (which is a mess) is substantial.
The time to start rebuilding the O-line is NOW. Eli only has 2-3 years left at best. We can make a couple serious runs in that time (and probably more importantly prepare the stage for Eli's successor - we need to learn that lesson from Dallas).
Money best spent would be on a stud left tackle (probably free agent) and a very high draft pick for right offensive guard.
Dwayne Harris fills a lot of roles, his contract isn't onerous, and cutting him only saves 1.5 mil, while leaving 2.5 mil of dead money on the books.
Vereen's cap hit is getting up there, and the savings vs dead money is very favorable. on the Bubble? possible restructure/extension?
We have had and do have very respected Oline coaches. The student needs to want to learn and be exciting about getting better.
Half measures won't work.
I'd prefer Sensabaugh over Wade, he actually seems capable of covering people.
I'd like to keep Hall as #3 safety. Once he got used to the system he made plays.
JPP is getting his money, no discount. I hope both he and Hankins come back, but at least one has to be resigned. I'd get Hankins locked up early, then work on JPP.
They need a real OC. It was just weird with McAdoo calling plays.
They need a real #2 WR (love Cruz but.....). Can it be King? Could not understand Lewis over King during the season. King seems to get open and he can fly. (Mike Williams from Clemson would look good in blue).
Jennings may be a camp casualty - hold him until Perkins makes it through camp and let him go.
Keep Keenan Robinson. He played well, IMHO. Get Goodson on the field to wreak havoc.