1. Assuming multiple reports on the topic Derrick Rose MUST be suspended. I don't care what the family issue was. There is absolutely no excuse for not contacting/not being receptive to contact from the Knicks. You tell your agent/friend to speak to them on your behalf. The Knicks reportedly are "livid".
2. Things were already going downhill with Rose/Hornacek. Even if unrelated I think it's more likely than not this will help the Knicks make their Rose decision going forward.
"Knicks officials didn’t hear from Rose that he was OK until after an embarrassing loss to New Orleans, a confirmation that sources said began the next conversation within the organization: What do they do with Rose now?
In the aftermath of going AWOL at The Garden, Knicks officials need to further determine Rose’s passion to return to the team and continue playing.
Rose has put into peril his short-term role – with the possibility of a suspension, sources said – and the longer-term chances to land a lucrative contract extension with the Knicks in July, league sources told The Vertical.
Rose, the 2011 NBA Most Valuable Player and a three-time All-Star, has suffered through several serious injuries and has diminished as an elite point guard in the league. He’s had an up-and-down season for the Knicks, who have lost eight of nine games and dropped to 17-21."
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In comment 13320444 Deej said:
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In comment 13320385 nygiants16 said:
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your view is the realistic one and anyone who views the optomistic is a homer and delusional..
I dont say it out loud a lot, but I basically agree. I viewed this roster with no long term optimism beyond having KP and I think I've been vindicated.
I don't think anyone with a brain was thinking about the roster "long-term" when 95% of these guys wouldn't be around when KP reaches his peak. The Rose trade didn't work out... he'll be gone after the season. It isn't the end of the world.
I'm very optimistic about this team long-term because they have the most difficult issue solved... a young star to build the franchise around. That's the part that bad teams struggle with. They finally have all of their draft picks, so they'll be able to add a piece each season if the player pans out.
I dont get this attitude at all. The "KP's peak starts in 4 years so until then we can mess around" attitude. That's not how you build a team. You cant wake up in year 5 or year 6 of KP and add a lot of talent all at once. IT's the Lebron on the Cavs 1.0 problem. It's hard to get talent and you cant waste time and effort with mess around rosters.
We should be in asset accumulation mode. Getting higher picks and signing younger FAs who could maybe blossom (hard in this environment).
Yup. I have said this all along. This redundant, dead-end strategy we keep trying to employ where we add aged vets and try to just be "competitive" and make the playoffs is useless. This gets you nowhere in the NBA.
We have a kid worth building a team around now. That was one of the biggest first steps. We need to accumulate assets, get younger, and look to build a sustainable winner.
Putting teams like this on the court year in and year out is a waste of time. The Knicks aren't going anywhere with this roster.
Yup. I have said this all along. This redundant, dead-end strategy we keep trying to employ where we add aged vets and try to just be "competitive" and make the playoffs is useless. This gets you nowhere in the NBA.
We have a kid worth building a team around now. That was one of the biggest first steps. We need to accumulate assets, get younger, and look to build a sustainable winner.
Putting teams like this on the court year in and year out is a waste of time. The Knicks aren't going anywhere with this roster.
I agree with this but I don't think that was ever going to be an option under Phil Jackson.
This is a 70 guy with god complex (I might be stretching there) that is used to winning at a pretty steady clip. He was never going to go through the long rebuild. Phil took the road where they possibly have an small outside chance to make some noise in the next 3/4 years and then start over again. And I can't say I blame him. In theory, this should be a very competitive team.
What's frustrating the most to me is that 90% of the problems with this team are between their ears. I look at the east and have a hard time understanding how we are so much worse than the Celtics and everyone behind them (talent-wise). I just don't believe it. Not when you have KP, Melo, Rose, and the rest of the supporting cast. To me, they have enough to be competitive and have a small chance to make some noise if they get lucky.
The problem is that you'd need these veteran Knick players to change up their game. You'd need them to be aggressive. You'd need them to be open-minded. You'd need them to be coachable. Unfortunately, veteran players are who they are. You aren't going to be able to mold and coach them (IMO) like younger players. Therefore, you then need to rely on how good they WERE and hope they can continue or repeat that. That's where the Knicks are and it's a thin line to walk.
This is a close-minded, undisciplined, low IQ team that is sinking fast. And it sucks because I know they could be a lot better. Obviously not the best, but that's just the NBA these days.
I'd rather be competitive with a shot (however small it may be) then to sit around for 10+ years and wait for the next MJ or Lebron to walk through the door (and have it never happen).
I hate the idea of "make some noise". We had a ZERO percent chance of winning the title this year. Noise is irrelevant.
Anyway, the missing ingredient is athleticism. We lack it. Noah was never a super athlete. Melo got old. Rose isnt what he was. Lee was never a great athlete. KOQ isnt a leaper. Kuz, Baker etc. -- below average NBA athletes.
Athletes defend and move on offense and run the floor. We need more of them.
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What's frustrating the most to me is that 90% of the problems with this team are between their ears. I look at the east and have a hard time understanding how we are so much worse than the Celtics and everyone behind them (talent-wise). I just don't believe it. Not when you have KP, Melo, Rose, and the rest of the supporting cast. To me, they have enough to be competitive and have a small chance to make some noise if they get lucky.
I hate the idea of "make some noise". We had a ZERO percent chance of winning the title this year. Noise is irrelevant.
Anyway, the missing ingredient is athleticism. We lack it. Noah was never a super athlete. Melo got old. Rose isnt what he was. Lee was never a great athlete. KOQ isnt a leaper. Kuz, Baker etc. -- below average NBA athletes.
Athletes defend and move on offense and run the floor. We need more of them.
Fair enough. And I hate the idea of tanking for years to stockpile draft picks only to continue to suck for years.
The Cavs had the #1 pick 3 out of 4 years and they would have continued to suck if they hadn't gotten back their former #1 pick (aka the best player in the world) and use another #1 pick to trade for Kevin Love.
How long have the 76ers been rebuilding? How many top picks did they have? They currently have 10 wins.
Half of Minnesota's roster is full of top picks, including two #1 picks. They have 12 wins.
Yeah, yeah...they are young, they could develop. Or more likely, they will be a middling team with zero chance at winning anything.
Yeah, I know the chance at winning a championship is slim to none...doesn't mean that I want to see shitty basketball for years and years. I'll take a playoff series win or two each season with the outside chance at getting lucky. Every day of the week. Otherwise, what the hell is the point?
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Yup. I have said this all along. This redundant, dead-end strategy we keep trying to employ where we add aged vets and try to just be "competitive" and make the playoffs is useless. This gets you nowhere in the NBA.
We have a kid worth building a team around now. That was one of the biggest first steps. We need to accumulate assets, get younger, and look to build a sustainable winner.
Putting teams like this on the court year in and year out is a waste of time. The Knicks aren't going anywhere with this roster.
I agree with this but I don't think that was ever going to be an option under Phil Jackson.
This is a 70 guy with god complex (I might be stretching there) that is used to winning at a pretty steady clip. He was never going to go through the long rebuild. Phil took the road where they possibly have an small outside chance to make some noise in the next 3/4 years and then start over again. And I can't say I blame him. In theory, this should be a very competitive team.
What's frustrating the most to me is that 90% of the problems with this team are between their ears. I look at the east and have a hard time understanding how we are so much worse than the Celtics and everyone behind them (talent-wise). I just don't believe it. Not when you have KP, Melo, Rose, and the rest of the supporting cast. To me, they have enough to be competitive and have a small chance to make some noise if they get lucky.
The problem is that you'd need these veteran Knick players to change up their game. You'd need them to be aggressive. You'd need them to be open-minded. You'd need them to be coachable. Unfortunately, veteran players are who they are. You aren't going to be able to mold and coach them (IMO) like younger players. Therefore, you then need to rely on how good they WERE and hope they can continue or repeat that. That's where the Knicks are and it's a thin line to walk.
This is a close-minded, undisciplined, low IQ team that is sinking fast. And it sucks because I know they could be a lot better. Obviously not the best, but that's just the NBA these days.
I'd rather be competitive with a shot (however small it may be) then to sit around for 10+ years and wait for the next MJ or Lebron to walk through the door (and have it never happen).
"In theory this should be a very competitive team". What??? Am I missing something? We didn't have a top 30 NBA player going into the season when the competitive teams have multiple top 20-30 players. We knew this going into the season.
can you name any defensive player of note on this roster? Noah?? Even last year he's fallen off many steps from his prime days.
Fair enough. And I hate the idea of tanking for years to stockpile draft picks only to continue to suck for years.
The Cavs had the #1 pick 3 out of 4 years and they would have continued to suck if they hadn't gotten back their former #1 pick (aka the best player in the world) and use another #1 pick to trade for Kevin Love.
How long have the 76ers been rebuilding? How many top picks did they have? They currently have 10 wins.
Half of Minnesota's roster is full of top picks, including two #1 picks. They have 12 wins.
Yeah, yeah...they are young, they could develop. Or more likely, they will be a middling team with zero chance at winning anything.
Yeah, I know the chance at winning a championship is slim to none...doesn't mean that I want to see shitty basketball for years and years. I'll take a playoff series win or two each season with the outside chance at getting lucky. Every day of the week. Otherwise, what the hell is the point?
Who said tank for years? Frankly, I think with some talent around him it will be hard to "tank" with KP within a few seasons. That's what sets us apart from the Kyrie Cavs. And the TWolves will be good soon. Their KP is KAT, and he is also just in his second year. And the Sixers have gotten unlucky with health. Embiid was supposed to be back a year earlier, and Ben Simmons was not expected to get hurt.
Fundamentally, I think the parade of horribles argument about tanking, that it's not gonna work and will take years, is just cover for the lack of good arguments for restocking with the likes of Rose and Noah. I mean, you want to complain about uber tanks taking too long -- well remind me the last team that did a rebuild like the 2016-17 Knicks and got anywhere.
Who said tank for years? Frankly, I think with some talent around him it will be hard to "tank" with KP within a few seasons. That's what sets us apart from the Kyrie Cavs. And the TWolves will be good soon. Their KP is KAT, and he is also just in his second year. And the Sixers have gotten unlucky with health. Embiid was supposed to be back a year earlier, and Ben Simmons was not expected to get hurt.
Fundamentally, I think the parade of horribles argument about tanking, that it's not gonna work and will take years, is just cover for the lack of good arguments for restocking with the likes of Rose and Noah. I mean, you want to complain about uber tanks taking too long -- well remind me the last team that did a rebuild like the 2016-17 Knicks and got anywhere.
So, since it would be hard to "tank" with KP so we are going to surround him with mid-round picks and have a better roster than we do right now? I guess it's possible.
The argument against tanking/restocking isn't a cover...it's reality. Was I a fan of the Rose and Noah trade/signing? Not particularly...but there was some upside that could have been had. It was a risk that could have worked out. Unfortunately, we have two former superstars who still feel they are premier talents...when they clearly are not. But at least Melo COULD be a very valuable player if he had any semblance of self-awareness.
There really isn't a right or wrong answer on this and we are obviously on different sides of the coin with our view points. I saw the upside of what Phil was doing. But it hasn't gone our way. The reality is...unless you luck into a HOF/generational talent, and then sign/draft two all stars and then build around that...you ain't winning shit. That's NBA basketball as we know it. Therefore, I'd rather enjoy a competitive team that has a small chance at winning a championship than a shit show year after year with an even smaller chance at building something better.
Not sure what you are getting at. When exactly did the current Rockets ever tank? The Warriors sucked for 20 years - kinda proves my point. The Thunder? Er, I guess I'll give you that one. What exactly have they won again?
The Spurs? Really? A perennially awesome team that lost their MVP to injury so they decided to tank that ONE year and lucked into Tim Duncan? And then went right back to winning all the time? Come on man.
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The Warriors, the old thunder and the current rockets from anti-tanking arguments. I'll save the Spurs as well.
Not sure what you are getting at. When exactly did the current Rockets ever tank? The Warriors sucked for 20 years - kinda proves my point. The Thunder? Er, I guess I'll give you that one. What exactly have they won again?
The Spurs? Really? A perennially awesome team that lost their MVP to injury so they decided to tank that ONE year and lucked into Tim Duncan? And then went right back to winning all the time? Come on man.
The Knicks have sucked for 20 years, how many consecutive first round picks have they strung together in that span? Obviously they hit on late round picks- all these teams do (Draymond, Parker, Ibaka) but they have success with their top picks.
Are we seriously going to deem the thunder drafting 3 future MVP candidates a disaster that shouldn't be followed? A finals appearance is something this team hasn't seen in a long time. You're going to say you saw the "upside" in this current roster but say the thunder did things incorrectly? Talk about homerism.
My point with the Spurs is that they were built off 2 #1 overall picks like how the thunder and warriors were built off top picks. Sure they tanked when they ran into injuries. But fundamentally they were built off top college prospects that went high in the draft.
Back to this "upside". What the hell was the upside? There were no top 30 NBA players on this roster. The upside was a first round exit via the Cavs or Raptors. Sure maybe the 4th-5th seed was in play if Noah regained 80% of peak performance but that's more telling of the mediocrity of the east than how good of a roster phil put together. This team's defenses prospects weren't looking good because Rose and Melo were a big part of it. Lee is closer to "not a liability" than "defensive stopper" on that end. 2015 Noah showed that he was still decent on defense but if he couldn't anchor a good defense with Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson imagine then idk how much you could expect.
I think his play has leveled off. He has to shot block and rebound better and then become a better post defender as he adds muscle.
I dont get this attitude at all. The "KP's peak starts in 4 years so until then we can mess around" attitude. That's not how you build a team. You cant wake up in year 5 or year 6 of KP and add a lot of talent all at once. IT's the Lebron on the Cavs 1.0 problem. It's hard to get talent and you cant waste time and effort with mess around rosters.
We should be in asset accumulation mode. Getting higher picks and signing younger FAs who could maybe blossom (hard in this environment).
I'm not quite sure how you got "KP's peak starts in 4 years so until then we can mess around" from what I said. I also think you're misinterpreting what the Cavs problem was.
- They used their sole post-LeBron (while he was still there) lottery pick on Luke Jackson.
- Another post-LeBron lottery pick was traded back in 1997.
- They drafted Shannon Brown with a 1st round pick.
- They used a 1st round pick on JJ Hickson. (Here are some of the next 7 players drafted directly after Hickson: Ryan Anderson, Courtney Lee, Serge Ibaka, Nicolas Batum, & George Hill.)
- They traded a 1st round pick for Jiri Welsch.
- They use a 1st pick on some guy named Christian Eyenga, who would play 51 games in his NBA career.
The Cavs problem is that they consistently made bad moves after lucking into James... not that they waited until he was at his peak to acquire talent. They could've been acquiring talent all that time (like the Spurs), but they just made 1 shitty decision after another. Chances are the Knicks won't strike gold with every 1st round draft pick. But they can't do what the Cavs did and strike gold with NONE of them.
The Knicks and Phil have failed at one thing and one thing only here: finding the right head coach.
There was no magic formula that the Knicks missed out on that would have afforded this team a bunch of young rising stars. They had no resources. Now they do.
Hire the right coach. Let Rose walk. Go from there.
The Knicks and Phil have failed at one thing and one thing only here: finding the right head coach.
There was no magic formula that the Knicks missed out on that would have afforded this team a bunch of young rising stars. They had no resources. Now they do.
Hire the right coach. Let Rose walk. Go from there.
cap space is a resource and it was squandered on 1+1 deals for guys like Affalo/Williams and then Noah. Teams use cap space all the time to supplement their stash of assets. It can be done. Phil chose to go in a different direction. And now here they are nearly 4 years into his tenure with exactly 2 young players of note.
What I always find amusing is the folks who defend Phil and loved the Rose trade by saying they traded nothing for Rose. If that's the case, then where is the criticism for signing Lopez and wasting a pick on Grant?
I didn't say the Knicks hit on every move. I don't care...you win.
Like I said...ASSET MGMT. The Knicks have more chips today than they did 3 years ago. That's not saying much but it's better than the alternative.
They need a HC and they need to add more young pieces. They haven't compromised that no matter how much you insist otherwise.
I'd love to hear about how they're in "pretty good shape". There's some quality players that are likely going to be made available via trade over the next few weeks. Are the Knicks in a position to acquire any of these players? They're not. Do the Knicks have max cap room this summer? They don't. Are we draft pick positive, neutral, or negative going forward (including second rounders)? They are draft pick negative. Were you aware of any of this? Of course not.
it's not a secret. Follow the league and you might learn something.
Like I said...ASSET MGMT. The Knicks have more chips today than they did 3 years ago. That's not saying much but it's better than the alternative.
They need a HC and they need to add more young pieces. They haven't compromised that no matter how much you insist otherwise.
asset management? Holy fuck you're lost. If you're going to claim Lopez and Grant were assets (I happen to agree with that)...then how do you call it good asset management when two cost controlled guys going forward are moved for two guys who are free agents this summer and likely to leave?
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..we're not going over this again. The Knicks from a roster MGMT pov are in pretty good shape.
I'd love to hear about how they're in "pretty good shape". There's some quality players that are likely going to be made available via trade over the next few weeks. Are the Knicks in a position to acquire any of these players? They're not. Do the Knicks have max cap room this summer? They don't. Are we draft pick positive, neutral, or negative going forward (including second rounders)? They are draft pick negative. Were you aware of any of this? Of course not.
Now you're just making shit up. The Knicks have all their picks how is that negative? They HAD NO PICKS and actually GAINED PICKS from 3 years ago. You're making shit up. The Knicks are better today than they were 2-3 years ago. There was literally no magic formula that anyone was going to utilize here. The Knicks had NOTHING at their disposal except one lottery pick in 2014 and that was it.
You act like Phil inherited a clean canvas 3 years ago. He inherited a disaster of epic proportions. He inherited bad contracts, worse players and no future picks except the one I mentioned, which he turned into KP. HE also landed Gomez and Cheese. Signed O'Quinn.
[quote] In comment 13321109 djm said:
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could the Knicks use their cap space from last year or the year before to stockpile young assets?
it's not a secret. Follow the league and you might learn something. [/quote
Nice way to skip the question. Follow my ass. HOws that.
The Knicks would still be a mess if they signed 1-2 younger hot names in FA to big deals. But they'd have those young players you get all excited about. And we'd be FUCKED and locked in to 38 wins for the next 5 years.
Lose the title, gut your bench and sign the 2nd best player in the league. The Cavs have used all those young assests to get guys like Frye and Korver....oops.
The problem with the knicks is the same problem with 90% of the league. Without a megastar, your in pergatory until you get 2-3 young all-stars. They have one in Porz. Nothing they do now until Lebron stops winning is going to matter.
Let Rose play his contract out. Let Melo do the same. Tank a year here and there and hope you hit one in the lottery. Until then, it doesnt matter what they do.
There are 3-4 teams that are contenders every year. This year, there is 2.
The Knicks would still be a mess if they signed 1-2 younger hot names in FA to big deals. But they'd have those young players you get all excited about. And we'd be FUCKED and locked in to 38 wins for the next 5 years.
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In comment 13321098 djm said:
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..we're not going over this again. The Knicks from a roster MGMT pov are in pretty good shape.
I'd love to hear about how they're in "pretty good shape". There's some quality players that are likely going to be made available via trade over the next few weeks. Are the Knicks in a position to acquire any of these players? They're not. Do the Knicks have max cap room this summer? They don't. Are we draft pick positive, neutral, or negative going forward (including second rounders)? They are draft pick negative. Were you aware of any of this? Of course not.
Now you're just making shit up. The Knicks have all their picks how is that negative? They HAD NO PICKS and actually GAINED PICKS from 3 years ago. You're making shit up. The Knicks are better today than they were 2-3 years ago. There was literally no magic formula that anyone was going to utilize here. The Knicks had NOTHING at their disposal except one lottery pick in 2014 and that was it.
You act like Phil inherited a clean canvas 3 years ago. He inherited a disaster of epic proportions. He inherited bad contracts, worse players and no future picks except the one I mentioned, which he turned into KP. HE also landed Gomez and Cheese. Signed O'Quinn.
did you miss the part where I included second rounders when talking about draft picks going forward? It's right there in black and white. They are draft pick negative going forward. Like a lot of other things, it would appear you are simply unaware, misinformed, or just fucking stupid.
you're not even following what I'm saying. It's really not that complicated a concept. But if you want to go that route...it's not worth discussing any "27 year old player making max money " because Phil can't even get meetings with them.
where did I say that? Your'e so lost.
what? where am I advocating for that? You're all over the place. Please try to pay attention.
The Knicks would still be a mess if they signed 1-2 younger hot names in FA to big deals. But they'd have those young players you get all excited about. And we'd be FUCKED and locked in to 38 wins for the next 5 years.
Sorry what's the ceiling of wins on this team?
1. When are they going to win?
2. Will the talent stay after rookie deal, and will they be any good by then?
3. Will the draw any FA while they suck?
Plus you throw teams in like Phx, Sacramento, Denver, amongsts many other teams who are terrible every year. Even teams like the Charlotte and Utah were terrible for a few years seems to be in purgatory (yes Utah is better, but they arent a threat in the west).
You still have to be competitive to draw interest from big names to come and play for you.
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any name...gimme a name that cures all our ailments. Please. I am all ears. What young 27 year old player making max money was coming here and fixing everything? Take your time.
you're not even following what I'm saying. It's really not that complicated a concept. But if you want to go that route...it's not worth discussing any "27 year old player making max money " because Phil can't even get meetings with them.
You said the Knicks should have turned their cap space into something tangible or legit or whatever it was you said.
So please, enlighten me. What could the Knicks have done with that cap space? They could have locked into a younger (hopefully) up n coming player...am I right? Who? And can you guarantee us that this player earns his salary? Who is that player? Or are you saying that the Knicks could have turned that space into more draft picks? I'm not trying to argue...I just want to know what they could have done. As is at least they have cap space coming in 2 years and they could possibly wiggle free this summer if needed, although i don't even think there are any legit max players coming free this summer, but I could be wrong.
Knicks have never been a big FA draw. Our only big FA signing ever really was Amar'e, and no one else was willing to pay him
3-4 years ago the Knicks had less picks than they do now. Period!!!! Your're twisting shit around. I know they have less 2nds than most teams. THEY were faced with WORSE than that 3 years back! They gained assets. Maybe not a lot...but they did. You can't admit to this. You refuse.
You wonder if some regret it. I mean AD in Chicago or new york or LA is probably happier.
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This we know the answer to. Outside of Greg Monroe, EVERYONE has taken that first extension. With the new CBA, everyone (with the possible exception of guys makes 75 million in endorsements) will take the second extension.
You wonder if some regret it. I mean AD in Chicago or new york or LA is probably happier.
But dat $$. Boogie just resigned. Boogie.
That would be nice, but I dont think any HC was going to do much here. Either you have a good roster or a young roster. A bad but not young roster, especially one that has some skill, is terribly hard to keep contented. Guys like Rose, Noah, and Melo know what winning basketball looks and feels like, even if you can hang the blame on them in particular. It's hard for any coach to get thru under those circumstances.
Just my perspective, but the biggest problem I have with Phil is that he played the odds wrong. Smart at first in clearing the team of debris. Always in my heart for having the balls to take KP. And I thought the Rolo signing was smart -- contract that looked big but would look better as the cap expanded, player in his 20s. For some reason, Phil got off the bus this offseason. Maybe he thought Melo forced his hand. Maybe Dolan (I doubt it), or his own ego. Or a misread of talent. But the win now 2016 offseason made no sense. There were not good odds/precedent of it working.
3-4 years ago the Knicks had less picks than they do now. Period!!!! Your're twisting shit around. I know they have less 2nds than most teams. THEY were faced with WORSE than that 3 years back! They gained assets. Maybe not a lot...but they did. You can't admit to this. You refuse.
I said they were draft pick negative. You said the following:
please go away. You can't even keep your bullshit opinions straight.
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In comment 13321202 Deej said:
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This we know the answer to. Outside of Greg Monroe, EVERYONE has taken that first extension. With the new CBA, everyone (with the possible exception of guys makes 75 million in endorsements) will take the second extension.
You wonder if some regret it. I mean AD in Chicago or new york or LA is probably happier.
But dat $$. Boogie just resigned. Boogie.
Money always wins. They should never cry about never winning though. Boogie and AD will never win in their places.
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the biggest mistake of Phil's tenure here is the HC. He failed their miserably. If Phil brought in the right guy to run this team they'd look a lot better right now. Horn is in over his head here in NYC. He needs to go to a small team with no egos and do his thing. He will succeed somewhere else, not here. This team needs a dictator. Someone bigger than the parts.
That would be nice, but I dont think any HC was going to do much here. Either you have a good roster or a young roster. A bad but not young roster, especially one that has some skill, is terribly hard to keep contented. Guys like Rose, Noah, and Melo know what winning basketball looks and feels like, even if you can hang the blame on them in particular. It's hard for any coach to get thru under those circumstances.
Just my perspective, but the biggest problem I have with Phil is that he played the odds wrong. Smart at first in clearing the team of debris. Always in my heart for having the balls to take KP. And I thought the Rolo signing was smart -- contract that looked big but would look better as the cap expanded, player in his 20s. For some reason, Phil got off the bus this offseason. Maybe he thought Melo forced his hand. Maybe Dolan (I doubt it), or his own ego. Or a misread of talent. But the win now 2016 offseason made no sense. There were not good odds/precedent of it working.
Phil came out and said Melo's exit interview (where he asked for a PG) influenced his "plan". It's all so ridiculous.
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In comment 13320444 Deej said:
I dont get this attitude at all. The "KP's peak starts in 4 years so until then we can mess around" attitude. That's not how you build a team. You cant wake up in year 5 or year 6 of KP and add a lot of talent all at once. IT's the Lebron on the Cavs 1.0 problem. It's hard to get talent and you cant waste time and effort with mess around rosters.
We should be in asset accumulation mode. Getting higher picks and signing younger FAs who could maybe blossom (hard in this environment).
I'm just a drive by shooter on this thread: I agree with Deej's take in the above post as well as his in a later one saying there was no way Knicks were going to be serious contenders this year, so why load up on Joakim and Rose.
But in terms of KP being the guy you build around, that is the conventional wisdom, but it may be flawed thinking. He's a very young guy and a lot of maturing, physically and mentally, to go along with his outsized talent. But I am not sure KP is "the" guy to be the centerpiece; he may require another outsized talent, more robust and physical, whether at the 1, 3, 4, or 5 in order to completely settle in. His talent is way up there, but it is not impeccable in the sense that he is indefensible even as his game develops: he's not going to be strong/physical enough for that, and certainly not quick enough for that, down the road, imo.
I believe he is going to need the next Melo (God forbid), i.e., the next piece that can constantly draw doubles and collapsing away from him. The other question I have is whether he is capable of having the killer mentality on the court to become the undisputed leader on the court. That's an open question whether that is in his genes. I am not saying he is not a great pick and that he is not--part of--the future of the team, just that to load "the future" primarily on his shoulders may be a bridge too far.