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What to do with Keenan Robinson...

Dan in the Springs : 1/10/2017 9:48 am
nice player, proved he could stay healthy, was a critical part of the LB coverage unit that helped shut down passing games. He will want more than his 1-year "prove-it" deal he got with us for 1.15MM. What do we do with him? Are you okay with losing him?

I want to keep him, but wouldn't go too long on the contract. I'm thinking 4 years $16MM with $8MM guaranteed sounds about right.

Thoughts?
Ideally  
pjcas18 : 1/10/2017 9:50 am : link
Goodson makes him redundant.

I'd like to re-sign him, but not a priority. let him shop and if he enjoyed NY let him bring his offer back to the Giants to see if they can be competitive, but like I said not a priority and ideally Goodson makes him redundant.
Not sure of the numbers,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/10/2017 9:51 am : link
but I hope we re-sign him
RE: Ideally  
Dan in the Springs : 1/10/2017 9:52 am : link
In comment 13319586 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Goodson makes him redundant.

I'd like to re-sign him, but not a priority. let him shop and if he enjoyed NY let him bring his offer back to the Giants to see if they can be competitive, but like I said not a priority and ideally Goodson makes him redundant.


Seems to me that Goodson is really the complement to Robinson - with Robinson being a coverage specialist and Goodson the run-stopper.

That's just based on the very little I've seen and heard about Goodson so far though.
Our LB unit get's shit on constantly  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2017 9:52 am : link
But I personally like Kennard-Robinson-Casillas as a starting 3. Work Goodson in more as Sheppard's replacement against the run and I'm fine. Re-sign Hank and JPP and focus on the offense in 2017.
I've Been Singing His Praises All Season  
Suburbanites : 1/10/2017 9:54 am : link
Was under the radar as that other defensive FA signing but I thought played very well. He's much better suited at the Will rather than the Mike. I also thought Kennard took at least a small step forward. It would be nice to know if Goodson can be the Mike next season. Castillas gave it his all and is a team leader, he's just not athletic enough, at best he shouldn't be more than a depth guy. I'd be okay with Robinson-Goodson at Will and Kennard at Sam. That means they need to either draft a Mike or determine whether or not Goodson can be that guy. Sheppard needs to be upgraded.
Eh  
JonC : 1/10/2017 9:55 am : link
He's good at times, and MIA at others. Not unlike Casillas. Will make some plays but often overmatched physically in the run game. He did play well as the MIKE in nickel/dime.

Giants need to figure out who their best option is at WILL, and do they need to look at the open market.

Goodson should get a long look at MIKE, Kennard is set at SAM. I wouldn't spend big on Robinson. He needs to step up and win the WILL spot and put Casillas' arse on the pine.
Robinson is nothing like Goodson  
Tuckrule : 1/10/2017 10:06 am : link
One is a thumper and the other is a modern day coverage linebacker. Robinson made plays all season the guy is a stud. He proved he can stay healthy and should be paid. We need to keep the unity going. Robinson and casillas(at times) played great together
RE: Eh  
Dan in the Springs : 1/10/2017 10:07 am : link
In comment 13319599 JonC said:
Quote:
I wouldn't spend big on Robinson. He needs to step up and win the WILL spot and put Casillas' arse on the pine.


Don't forget that Casillas was playing injured for much of the year, part of why he disappeared after looking strong early.

Secondly, how much do you think he earned for himself after this year? He can't step up and win the WILL spot without first getting a contract offer from us. How much would you offer?
He's low on the priority list  
jcn56 : 1/10/2017 10:08 am : link
There's Hankins, JPP (and if not JPP, then a JPP replacement), possibly even another corner depending on how things shake out. I'd like KR back, but not for much more than he's already being paid.
I say something in the neighborhood of  
Reb8thVA : 1/10/2017 10:12 am : link
2/years at $3 million a year.
RE: RE: Eh  
JonC : 1/10/2017 10:12 am : link
In comment 13319624 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13319599 JonC said:


Quote:


I wouldn't spend big on Robinson. He needs to step up and win the WILL spot and put Casillas' arse on the pine.



Don't forget that Casillas was playing injured for much of the year, part of why he disappeared after looking strong early.

Secondly, how much do you think he earned for himself after this year? He can't step up and win the WILL spot without first getting a contract offer from us. How much would you offer?


Hey Dan, Casillas is a package player, meaning he needs to fit a role(s) rather than play full-time.

As for Robinson, 2 or 3 years, $3M per seems to be ballpark for adequate WILLs, imv. You, as a businessman, probably know better than me. grin
Hey Reb  
JonC : 1/10/2017 10:13 am : link
yep.
RE: Robinson is nothing like Goodson  
pjcas18 : 1/10/2017 10:17 am : link
In comment 13319622 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
One is a thumper and the other is a modern day coverage linebacker. Robinson made plays all season the guy is a stud. He proved he can stay healthy and should be paid. We need to keep the unity going. Robinson and casillas(at times) played great together


I know coverage isn't all about speed, but Goodson ran a significantly better 40 than Robinson. Plus, watch the highlights of Goodson, he doesn't struggle in coverage at the college level.

the areas where Goodson struggled is with his closing speed on edge runs, something Robinsion is never asked to do.

Goodson is not purely a 3rd down/nickel LB like Robinson, but the hopes (and let's face it as a 4th round pick they're just hopes) is that Goodson is a more complete LB than Robinson removing the need for him.

I think the Giants envision or hope Goodson turns into Antonio Pierce v2. Run stopping MIKE who can play 3 downs and rush the passer when asked.

RE: RE: Ideally  
Carson53 : 1/10/2017 10:23 am : link
In comment 13319590 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13319586 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


Goodson makes him redundant.

I'd like to re-sign him, but not a priority. let him shop and if he enjoyed NY let him bring his offer back to the Giants to see if they can be competitive, but like I said not a priority and ideally Goodson makes him redundant.



Seems to me that Goodson is really the complement to Robinson - with Robinson being a coverage specialist and Goodson the run-stopper.

That's just based on the very little I've seen and heard about Goodson so far though.
.

Goodson makes Shephard redundant. Both are 'run stoppers'.
I would give Robinson, a two year deal for about 4 mill.
Let Shephard walk away.
We know how Jerruh loves him some linebackers.
Robinson is very athletic and versatile...  
Rafflee : 1/10/2017 10:42 am : link
...and I think he'll get better in all phases. Today's game requires fast linebackers---I really like Robinson!
Well,  
Doomster : 1/10/2017 11:10 am : link
Our LB unit get's shit on constantly
ZGiants98 : 9:52 am : link : reply
But I personally like Kennard-Robinson-Casillas as a starting 3. Work Goodson in more as Sheppard's replacement against the run and I'm fine. Re-sign Hank and JPP and focus on the offense in 2017.


They tend to get shit on, because we watch other teams and the way their linebackers play....

Was this unit a good one compared to what we have been trotting out there, the last 4 seasons? Yes it was, so it tends to make them a little better looking this season, than they actually are.....not one of them is a force....each has their own pluses, but they are for the most part average linebackers....

Can Goodson improve in pass coverage? Will he take that leap next year, with a year's experience and knowing what is expected from him?

Casillas is more a coverage linebacker, and average at that...

Kennard, just has not reached the promise he has flashed...he is easily blocked on blitzes, his coverage skills are so-so....the Giants for some reason tend to look for diamonds in the rough, in late rounds, at this position....and not too successful at it...

Sheppard tends to arrive after the posse....

Our free agents are, JPP, Hankins, Robinson, Hall, Herz, Sensabaugh, Wade, and Sheppard...

I don't think you can sign both JPP and Hankins, and have money for the offense.....I think JPP knows this is his last opportunity for a big contract, and the Giants are not going to get a "hometown deal" from him....Do you pay him big bucks, and cross your fingers he can stay on the field? I think Hankins is easier to replace than JPP....but, if JPP goes elsewhere you will need big bucks for his replacemnt, too.

Robinson I would give a reasonable offer....

We spent a lot of money last season on the defense last year, and it had great results.....at the sacrifice of the offense.....

This offense has to be fixed, and there is only so much cap space.....
Robinson  
RetroJint : 1/10/2017 11:18 am : link
is a good cover linebacker. He can be rooted out when offenses run against nickel packages. He's weak against the run. But Spagnuolo had him out there against the Packers most of the time, which tells you what?

Goodson replaces Sheppard next season. Depending on how things go at other spots, Casillas might be back. Kennard is coming on. I worry about next year because I fear a false sense of security emboldened by '16 stats. Look they played some shit offenses. They caught some others at the right time. But the linebacking unit doesn't phase me. They held up. They aren't jerk offs off the field. I am worried about JPP & Hank leaving because petty rationalizations are readily available for those dreadful scenarios .
Saw nothing from Robinson  
est1986 : 1/10/2017 11:34 am : link
That would warrant another contract, he had injuries and he was merely better than average in coverage. We need to find better LB's period
4 years $16MM with $8MM guaranteed sounds a biy high to me  
BillT : 1/10/2017 12:07 pm : link
I'm no GM but 2/3 mil for a couple/few years seems closer. How about 3 years/$7-9m.
I think the Giants will make a nice offer to Robinson...  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/10/2017 12:35 pm : link
...and lose him to a team that attaches more cap value to his position. (See "Bennett, Martellus")
Pjcas19  
Tuckrule : 1/10/2017 12:35 pm : link
I agree with that assessment I can envision Robinson being the will or at the very least a good backup at 2 spots and special teammer
He was a starter, for the most part, this year.....  
Simms11 : 1/10/2017 12:41 pm : link
we saw an awful lot of him in the lineup and I think Reese will make every attempt to keep the core defense in tact. He'll get a very reasonable offer. We paid him fairly well this year. I'm not so sure there are teams willing to pay him more however. I think it comes down to years on the contract.
9 million over 3  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/10/2017 12:47 pm : link
should get it done, and he is certainly worth that.
RE: Hey Reb  
Reb8thVA : 1/10/2017 12:54 pm : link
In comment 13319636 JonC said:
Quote:
yep.


Yeah, I wouldn't go longer than 2 years or above the 3 million price. He's a nice player but he's got a history of being injured a lot and one full season doesn't convince me the injuries are a thing of the past. You make him a nice offer, if he declines then thank you for your time here and good luck wherever life takes you.
I just don't want him to leave...  
Dan in the Springs : 1/10/2017 12:57 pm : link
my offer would basically be a 2 year, 8 million dollar deal.

I could be wrong about his value though, and from the opinions here I probably am.

I worry that we'll lose him to someone over a million dollars and he'll shine elsewhere while we're back to watching TE's and RB's moving the chains on third down.

IMO he was a key reason why we were able to force the highest number of 3 and outs in the entire league this year.

If he leaves, we better find someone good to replace him.
Very impressed him from his time with the Skins before he came here  
Optimus-NY : 1/10/2017 12:58 pm : link
I was happy to get him and was happy how the Giants handled him with his injury history in mind. He fits this defense well. I hope they keep him around.
Keep  
Joey in VA : 1/10/2017 1:08 pm : link
He and Casillas are a big reason we were able to improve this defense. If Goodson can develop into a capable 2 down run stuffer we can 86 Sheppard and deploy those 3 and Kennard depending on team/situation.
I don't think anyone really wants him to go  
jcn56 : 1/10/2017 1:15 pm : link
The big question is - how far would you go ($$$) to keep him here?

There's a lot of bills to be paid this offseason, and the cap space isn't as flush as it was last year. If someone comes along and offers this guy $10M worth of guaranteed money, do you match it?
RE: Very impressed him from his time with the Skins before he came here  
Rjanyg : 1/10/2017 1:19 pm : link
In comment 13320049 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
I was happy to get him and was happy how the Giants handled him with his injury history in mind. He fits this defense well. I hope they keep him around.


Same here. Robinson, Kennard, Casillas, Goodson and add to the mix Ishaq Williams. I think the Giants really like Williams and will further his development. Robinson is a keeper and while I like Sheppard, he is redundant to Goodson who I envision getting more playing time next year.
RE: I don't think anyone really wants him to go  
Dan in the Springs : 1/10/2017 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13320080 jcn56 said:
Quote:
The big question is - how far would you go ($$$) to keep him here?

There's a lot of bills to be paid this offseason, and the cap space isn't as flush as it was last year. If someone comes along and offers this guy $10M worth of guaranteed money, do you match it?


I might.

I guess I'd look at the FA numbers for WILL LB over the past several years. I wouldn't want him to get to FA, so I'd make him a competitive pre-emptive offer - nothing along the lines of an all-pro, but maybe 125% of starting WILL median and offer to guarantee 2 yrs of the contract's AAV.

If he gets to FA I think he'll do better than that.
I'd like to have him back...  
Torrag : 1/10/2017 1:38 pm : link
...for the first time in a decade opposing TE's and RB's didn't decimate us on 3rd down. I'll let the FO figure out the numbers but sign the man as long as he and his agent don't get carried away. He earned it.
RE: I don't think anyone really wants him to go  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/10/2017 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13320080 jcn56 said:
Quote:
The big question is - how far would you go ($$$) to keep him here?

There's a lot of bills to be paid this offseason, and the cap space isn't as flush as it was last year. If someone comes along and offers this guy $10M worth of guaranteed money, do you match it?


I can't see him getting a huge offer elsewhere.

I don't see this as a huge issue, he will get a modest contract over 2 or 3 years. A difference of a million, or an extra year isn't going to break the cap. They have the space not to quibble over Robinson's contract, which will be modest by today's standards...he is a 4-3 LB.

This isn't the contract Reese will be losing sleep over.
I wouldnt pay much for any of our LBer's... mostly JAGs  
GloryDayz : 1/10/2017 3:33 pm : link
Maybe a bit more than that, but thats it.

LBers looked better because the DL & the DB played better (pass & run support).

Casillas has nice leadership qualities, and you may try to keep him to have a leader in the LBers room, and you'd obviously like to have as much stability as possible, but I wouldnt lose sleep if we lost any.
Rather keep him than Shephard  
jeff57 : 1/10/2017 3:40 pm : link
But wouldn't break the bank for him.
RE: Ideally  
Matt M. : 1/10/2017 5:06 pm : link
In comment 13319586 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Goodson makes him redundant.

I'd like to re-sign him, but not a priority. let him shop and if he enjoyed NY let him bring his offer back to the Giants to see if they can be competitive, but like I said not a priority and ideally Goodson makes him redundant.
Agree. I think Goodson is going to be a good player for us. I thought he was going to really push to start this year. Injuries had some say in that. But, I think they also didn't want to rely on a rookie in the middle. Next year, though, I expect him to start at either MLB or SSLB.
RE: Saw nothing from Robinson  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/10/2017 9:42 pm : link
In comment 13319846 est1986 said:
Quote:
That would warrant another contract, he had injuries and he was merely better than average in coverage. We need to find better LB's period

Haha ok.
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