Say what you will but those guys held their spots from anywhere between 7-10 years.
Too bad the draft wasn't 12 rounds anymore
True, but do you trust Reese & co to pick the right guys? They've spent 2 #1s and a #2 and so far the jury is still out on all of them. Pugh is the best of the lot so far but has had injuries and struggles with maulers, Flowers has the most upside but is struggling with technique, and Richburg scares the hell out of me because he's physically weak and the whole league knows it.
In 1988, Eric Moore and Jumbo Elliot were drafted 1, 2. Moore played a total of 9 years, 6 with the Giants and started all 6 years. Jumbo played 14 years (wow), 8 years with the Giants, and started all 8 years.
In 1989, Brian Williams and Bob Kratch were the 1,2 picks. Williams played 9 years, all 9 with the Giants, and started the last 4 years. Kratch played 8 years, 5 with the Giants and was a starter fior 2 years.
So yeah, I guess cluster drafting works but maybe using premium picks on the o-line left a void of developable talent at other positions. See 1991-1992 and the Reeves years.
If Flowers had developed at any position, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. Only a discussion on a veteran FA LT.
Still too many needs to attempt a cluster draft. Maybe use a 1 and a 4 or a 2 and a 4 but nothing more.
You can't afford to wait more than 2 years for a draft pick to become a starter or at least contributor, you can't afford to swing and miss with top picks, and have to fill too many other needs through the draft too. In addition to OL, we have needs at WR and CB like we do every year, as well as TE, LB and RB
Our best bet to keep building the OL is to hopefully hit gold like we did last year with the defense - look for guys coming out of their rookie contract who are still young and healthy enough to contribute for a few years, who's current teams can't afford their FA market price
expecting multiple new starters on the OL are once again going to be disappointed.
Flowers, Richburg, and Pugh will obviously start. Flowers might be moved to the right.
Jerry will likely be gone.
I wouldn't be shocked if Hart is a starter.
We are probably looking at one new starter. A tackle if Flowers moves, if he doesn't move it could be a guard. They could also move Hart inside.
I really hope that is not the case, if so it is a setup for a continuing disaster on offense. For Reese to do NOTHING last year to help the offense with an aging immobile QB sealed the giants fate which we saw in GB. If he does nothing the gmen will be going nowhere!
when people post, by round, what positions we should take in that round.
That's not how you draft.
Why simply take a position if that position isn't worthy of being picked.
And why would you draft OL in the first four rounds when there are much better players to improve your football team at other positions????
.
Why would you draft O Lineman in the first four rounds?
You just typed that right? All the late rounders picked around here have done wonders right, oh my!
I always thought the reason for cluster drafting was Â
expecting multiple new starters on the OL are once again going to be disappointed.
Flowers, Richburg, and Pugh will obviously start. Flowers might be moved to the right.
Jerry will likely be gone.
I wouldn't be shocked if Hart is a starter.
We are probably looking at one new starter. A tackle if Flowers moves, if he doesn't move it could be a guard. They could also move Hart inside.
Pretty much expect same results
.
They can draft one and sign one, Hart was replaced
in the playoffs by Newhouse....he is not a long term solution to them.
You can have two starters on the O Line. They didn't address it last offseason right? A lot of us wanted them to do that, but they didn't and it showed!
but- even if we do as most of us want; Keeping JPP and Hank, you still need one more big and/or great
----------DT.
Look, with JPP you still also have Vernon, Okwara, Wynn as useful players.
However, if Hank or Snacks gets injured, (or even worn down as we may have seen after so many reps this season), we don't have much in the way of additional.
So, rounds 1,2,3 I would probably be targeting DT and OL and looking for the best within that pool.
Lets face it, without both hank and snacks this would have been a very, very mediocre team this past season.
We had huge money and both Kelechi Osemele (RG) and Mitchell Schwartz (RT) were available in free agency. Osemele made first team All Pro, Schwartz made second team.
I don't see this year's OL FA class being as fruitful, and we have much less cap space. An opportunity lost.
We're going to have to make the best of what we've got. I'd be surprised to see more than one change to the OL in 2017.
whereas BBI is probably correct in questioning Sullivan, nobody is questioning Spagnulo, and quite rightly so:
BUT, without TWO big and great DTs, what Spags has put together may...may... loose its foundation, and its a proven one. so that is one man down, a statistically big risk due to how easily that can happen, one guy, one leg, one toe, one arm, etc.
So, to reinforce a proven success (rather than shoot for a chance in an unproven side/scheme/trend/line and unit) as priority #1.
ten plus years, maybe longer, BBI rants about lack of quality linebackers, and occasionally, true as well, rants about how two 'beast DTs would help free up quicker LBs to make plays.'
This year we started to see that, it was great, but...one hank toe, one snacks elbow and that may go back to form.
We could clearly go DT in round 1 if a great presents himself to us.
we were drafting top 10, AND, it was a good OL draft.
Neither one of those are true, for us.
I was hoping Sy'56s writeups on OL had more candidates, and the gradings were better; neither one of those are true for us, especially at #23.
And the FA class is: Get the best of whatever there is. Leary MIGHT happen, but will he leave a Dallas team thats arrows up? Same with Rieff,Lang, and 1-2 others on contenders. What does Whitworth have at 35y.o., will Smith leave Minny?
And, aside from $$$, do any of them fit our OL scheme?
I don't see 3rd DT as a backup at all, its a position where you smash face with huge 320lb violent professional athletes all game long, and is the lynchpin to our D and team game right now.
Put it this way, after carrying the team all year, hank and snacks caught a few breathers from bromley in the last game...and we lost.
We had huge money and both Kelechi Osemele (RG) and Mitchell Schwartz (RT) were available in free agency. Osemele made first team All Pro, Schwartz made second team.
I don't see this year's OL FA class being as fruitful, and we have much less cap space. An opportunity lost.
We're going to have to make the best of what we've got. I'd be surprised to see more than one change to the OL in 2017.
I'm curious Terps - did you see Osemele as a much better player than Vernon (obviously, different sides of the ball).
Osemele made an obscene amount of money for a guard. Plenty of people pointed out that we overpaid for Vernon, and just as many felt the same about Osemele. I do think Osemele had the better year (although not by much), as both ended up on the AP team (1st vs 2nd, though), and DE is more of a premium position than OG.
You were against the Vernon signing, but would have had no problem paying Osemele?
On Schwartz, I think the history with his brother pretty much brought any possibility of that happening to an abrupt end before it even started.
I don't see 3rd DT as a backup at all, its a position where you smash face with huge 320lb violent professional athletes all game long, and is the lynchpin to our D and team game right now.
Put it this way, after carrying the team all year, hank and snacks caught a few breathers from bromley in the last game...and we lost.
So if they didn't need a breath the Giants would have won? Of course not.
I understand where you are coming from but you are drafting a backup which isn't going to starting anytime soon. These aren't DE's who get moved around.
You better have an impact DT if you go #1 when the team already has two young DT and a backup who wasn't bad.
I do see Osemele as a better player, and one that would have had a greater positive impact on the team than Vernon did. I think the biggest single problem with the 2016 Giants was the inability to run the ball with any authority. Had we been able to do so the two high coverage that troubled our passing game would have disappeared quickly. Osemele could have made an enormous difference in that regard, and the trickle down to the rest of the offense would have been significant.
I don't dislike Vernon as a player and I think we were better this year for having had him. But he is being paid like a premier pass rusher and we had trouble generating a conventional pass rush all season.
Osemele is making huge money, yeah. For a guard. $25 million guaranteed over 5 years is significant. But it's still less than half of the guaranteed money Vernon got. If Osemele is making obscene money, then we need to come up with a new word for Vernon.
RE: RE: The time to make cluster additions to the OL came and went last year Â
I'm curious Terps - did you see Osemele as a much better player than Vernon (obviously, different sides of the ball).
Not asking me but but i did. With so many holes the team couldn't go wrong and needed all the talent they could get yet, IMO, Osemele is a better OL than Vernon is a DE. Not to mention, Osemele makes the QB better than Vernon does and this league is built around the QB.
Based on changing times. Having one good DE doesn't do you much good in the NFL today, but having one exceptional guard or tackle can be the mortar of a good offensive line and contribute more on a play to play basis.
Always good to toss a delusional mock draft into Â
That said, you really have to go best playmaker available in the 1st round and as the draft progresses you can target certain positions of need.
Look how we got stuck with Flowers who may have been the best LOT on the board with the 9th pick. They probably should have taken Gurley. Now the Giants are unsure WTH to do with Flowers.
if the Giants use another 1st round pick this year on an OL they'll have more premium draft pick investment in the OL than the Cowboys, and the most draft pick investment in the OL in the entire NFL.
they'd have:
Flowers: 1st
Pugh: 1st
Richburg: 2nd
RG: TBD
RT: 1st (I assume or even flip this with Flowers)
The Cowboys also have 3 1sts (Smith, Frederick, and Martin), but the other two are 4th (Free) and UDFA (Leary)
at some point your talent evaluation of the OL needs to be questioned and you might be better off bringing in proven vets and spending FA cash instead of premium draft picks.
Been calling for this for at least five years...written several posts Â
about it...drafting Pugh and Richburg was good but too little.
Flowers shows nothing to me at this point and seems to be a problematic player. If his techniques is still bad after two years, 33 starts, two training camps and all that practice, what does that say to you? Flats and Solari are excellent OL coaches.
To me, that says everything you need to know about this player. Unfortunately, this is a bad draft for the OL or so I hear. Nonetheless, Reese better do something positive. Eli is now 36 and JR has ruined his last five years, mostly because of a bad offensive line.
we were drafting top 10, AND, it was a good OL draft.
Neither one of those are true, for us.
I was hoping Sy'56s writeups on OL had more candidates, and the gradings were better; neither one of those are true for us, especially at #23.
And the FA class is: Get the best of whatever there is. Leary MIGHT happen, but will he leave a Dallas team thats arrows up? Same with Rieff,Lang, and 1-2 others on contenders. What does Whitworth have at 35y.o., will Smith leave Minny?
And, aside from $$$, do any of them fit our OL scheme?
Dallas is 17 million over the cap. They are screwed next year. They already have their OL locked up and literally can't afford to keep Leary as a luxury 6th OL. That's why they signed Cooper.
2017 Salary Cap Total: $172,249,697
Projected 2017 Salary Cap Space: $-16,979,697
2017 Dead Money: $259,598
Simply put, the Dallas Cowboys have a lot of salary cap work to do between now and the 2017 season.
They can start by restructuring contracts for guys like quarterback Tony Romo ($24.7 million cap hit), wide receiver Dez Bryant ($17 million cap hit), left tackle Tyron Smith ($15.8 million cap hit), linebacker Sean Lee ($9.95 million cap hit), and tight end Jason Witten ($9.512 million cap hit). There is also a chance that they could completely part ways with Romo — which would free up a huge chunk of change — if rookie quarterback Dak Prescott continues to play at a high level.
When all is said and done, it’s highly unlikely that the Cowboys will be able to free up enough cap space to be aggressive during free agency next offseason. However, they should be able to keep their core group of players intact if they do things right.
expecting multiple new starters on the OL are once again going to be disappointed.
Flowers, Richburg, and Pugh will obviously start. Flowers might be moved to the right.
Jerry will likely be gone.
I wouldn't be shocked if Hart is a starter.
We are probably looking at one new starter. A tackle if Flowers moves, if he doesn't move it could be a guard. They could also move Hart inside.
Historically, Reese tries to plug as many holes as possible in FA so there's a little more flexibility in the draft. The OL has the most holes with Jerry and Newhouse as FA's along with performance issues of the OL as a whole.
I could see Reese signing a few OL in FA of the non-sexy variety and drafting an OL somewhere before the 4th round.
RE: Been calling for this for at least five years...written several posts Â
about it...drafting Pugh and Richburg was good but too little.
Flowers shows nothing to me at this point and seems to be a problematic player. If his techniques is still bad after two years, 33 starts, two training camps and all that practice, what does that say to you? Flats and Solari are excellent OL coaches.
To me, that says everything you need to know about this player. Unfortunately, this is a bad draft for the OL or so I hear. Nonetheless, Reese better do something positive. Eli is now 36 and JR has ruined his last five years, mostly because of a bad offensive line.
It also tells me that the Giants are not good at selecting Oline talent from rounds 3-7 (and UDFAs.)
I cannot see why our Giants should be forced into the position of drafting Oline in rounds 1 and 2. That's where your damn playmakers usually come from. Sure, if an Oline guy is that good you take him early. Giants pissed away a pick on Flowers who should have been a 2nd or 3rd rounder let alone the 9th pick of the draft.
Lets look back at that. Elliott was the best player. Kratch was a fill in starter and the Giants moved on from him after his 1st full year starting.
Brian Williams basically did not play until his 6th year - you do not have that luxury any more
E. Moore was OK - certainly not close to justifying the 10th pick in the draft
If those guys were picked by Reese, with 1 a spot starter, 1 basically not playing and 1 not justifying the 10th pick, as a G he would be vilified more than he already is
At least it helped make up for his cluster drafting of WR in 85-87:
S. Robinson, T. Henderson, V. Warren, R. Brown, S. Miller, S. Baker, O. Turner, M. Ingram
didn't we draft 2 TEs the year we drafted Derek Brown Â
Say what you will but those guys held their spots from anywhere between 7-10 years.
Too bad the draft wasn't 12 rounds anymore
if you move flowers to right tackle, sogn a vet right guard
Say what you will but those guys held their spots from anywhere between 7-10 years.
Too bad the draft wasn't 12 rounds anymore
True, but do you trust Reese & co to pick the right guys? They've spent 2 #1s and a #2 and so far the jury is still out on all of them. Pugh is the best of the lot so far but has had injuries and struggles with maulers, Flowers has the most upside but is struggling with technique, and Richburg scares the hell out of me because he's physically weak and the whole league knows it.
In 1989, Brian Williams and Bob Kratch were the 1,2 picks. Williams played 9 years, all 9 with the Giants, and started the last 4 years. Kratch played 8 years, 5 with the Giants and was a starter fior 2 years.
So yeah, I guess cluster drafting works but maybe using premium picks on the o-line left a void of developable talent at other positions. See 1991-1992 and the Reeves years.
If Flowers had developed at any position, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. Only a discussion on a veteran FA LT.
Still too many needs to attempt a cluster draft. Maybe use a 1 and a 4 or a 2 and a 4 but nothing more.
Our best bet to keep building the OL is to hopefully hit gold like we did last year with the defense - look for guys coming out of their rookie contract who are still young and healthy enough to contribute for a few years, who's current teams can't afford their FA market price
Flowers, Richburg, and Pugh will obviously start. Flowers might be moved to the right.
Jerry will likely be gone.
I wouldn't be shocked if Hart is a starter.
We are probably looking at one new starter. A tackle if Flowers moves, if he doesn't move it could be a guard. They could also move Hart inside.
Flowers, Richburg, and Pugh will obviously start. Flowers might be moved to the right.
Jerry will likely be gone.
I wouldn't be shocked if Hart is a starter.
We are probably looking at one new starter. A tackle if Flowers moves, if he doesn't move it could be a guard. They could also move Hart inside.
I really hope that is not the case, if so it is a setup for a continuing disaster on offense. For Reese to do NOTHING last year to help the offense with an aging immobile QB sealed the giants fate which we saw in GB. If he does nothing the gmen will be going nowhere!
Flowers, Richburg, and Pugh will obviously start. Flowers might be moved to the right.
Jerry will likely be gone.
I wouldn't be shocked if Hart is a starter.
We are probably looking at one new starter. A tackle if Flowers moves, if he doesn't move it could be a guard. They could also move Hart inside.
Pretty much expect same results
That's not how you draft.
Why simply take a position if that position isn't worthy of being picked.
And why would you draft OL in the first four rounds when there are much better players to improve your football team at other positions????
That's not how you draft.
Why simply take a position if that position isn't worthy of being picked.
And why would you draft OL in the first four rounds when there are much better players to improve your football team at other positions????
Why would you draft O Lineman in the first four rounds?
You just typed that right? All the late rounders picked around here have done wonders right, oh my!
I walked away from Reese's press conference feeling like he was pretty much telling us as such.
Ya think we draft a few?
Quote:
expecting multiple new starters on the OL are once again going to be disappointed.
Flowers, Richburg, and Pugh will obviously start. Flowers might be moved to the right.
Jerry will likely be gone.
I wouldn't be shocked if Hart is a starter.
We are probably looking at one new starter. A tackle if Flowers moves, if he doesn't move it could be a guard. They could also move Hart inside.
Pretty much expect same results
They can draft one and sign one, Hart was replaced
in the playoffs by Newhouse....he is not a long term solution to them.
You can have two starters on the O Line. They didn't address it last offseason right? A lot of us wanted them to do that, but they didn't and it showed!
----------DT.
Look, with JPP you still also have Vernon, Okwara, Wynn as useful players.
However, if Hank or Snacks gets injured, (or even worn down as we may have seen after so many reps this season), we don't have much in the way of additional.
So, rounds 1,2,3 I would probably be targeting DT and OL and looking for the best within that pool.
Lets face it, without both hank and snacks this would have been a very, very mediocre team this past season.
If its DT - than in round #2 it may be the %ages that the standout in that same pool will be a guard, forcing the Pugh move leftwards one spot.
I don't see this year's OL FA class being as fruitful, and we have much less cap space. An opportunity lost.
We're going to have to make the best of what we've got. I'd be surprised to see more than one change to the OL in 2017.
BUT, without TWO big and great DTs, what Spags has put together may...may... loose its foundation, and its a proven one. so that is one man down, a statistically big risk due to how easily that can happen, one guy, one leg, one toe, one arm, etc.
So, to reinforce a proven success (rather than shoot for a chance in an unproven side/scheme/trend/line and unit) as priority #1.
This year we started to see that, it was great, but...one hank toe, one snacks elbow and that may go back to form.
We could clearly go DT in round 1 if a great presents himself to us.
Neither one of those are true, for us.
I was hoping Sy'56s writeups on OL had more candidates, and the gradings were better; neither one of those are true for us, especially at #23.
And the FA class is: Get the best of whatever there is. Leary MIGHT happen, but will he leave a Dallas team thats arrows up? Same with Rieff,Lang, and 1-2 others on contenders. What does Whitworth have at 35y.o., will Smith leave Minny?
And, aside from $$$, do any of them fit our OL scheme?
Put it this way, after carrying the team all year, hank and snacks caught a few breathers from bromley in the last game...and we lost.
You could almost hear Reese in the past say they prefer value at DR starting in Round 2.
I don't see this year's OL FA class being as fruitful, and we have much less cap space. An opportunity lost.
We're going to have to make the best of what we've got. I'd be surprised to see more than one change to the OL in 2017.
I'm curious Terps - did you see Osemele as a much better player than Vernon (obviously, different sides of the ball).
Osemele made an obscene amount of money for a guard. Plenty of people pointed out that we overpaid for Vernon, and just as many felt the same about Osemele. I do think Osemele had the better year (although not by much), as both ended up on the AP team (1st vs 2nd, though), and DE is more of a premium position than OG.
You were against the Vernon signing, but would have had no problem paying Osemele?
On Schwartz, I think the history with his brother pretty much brought any possibility of that happening to an abrupt end before it even started.
Put it this way, after carrying the team all year, hank and snacks caught a few breathers from bromley in the last game...and we lost.
So if they didn't need a breath the Giants would have won? Of course not.
I understand where you are coming from but you are drafting a backup which isn't going to starting anytime soon. These aren't DE's who get moved around.
You better have an impact DT if you go #1 when the team already has two young DT and a backup who wasn't bad.
I don't dislike Vernon as a player and I think we were better this year for having had him. But he is being paid like a premier pass rusher and we had trouble generating a conventional pass rush all season.
Osemele is making huge money, yeah. For a guard. $25 million guaranteed over 5 years is significant. But it's still less than half of the guaranteed money Vernon got. If Osemele is making obscene money, then we need to come up with a new word for Vernon.
I'm curious Terps - did you see Osemele as a much better player than Vernon (obviously, different sides of the ball).
Not asking me but but i did. With so many holes the team couldn't go wrong and needed all the talent they could get yet, IMO, Osemele is a better OL than Vernon is a DE. Not to mention, Osemele makes the QB better than Vernon does and this league is built around the QB.
Odd on %?
Link - ( New Window )
OT - Cam Robinson - Alabama
OT/OG - Adam Bisnowaty - Pitt
That said, you really have to go best playmaker available in the 1st round and as the draft progresses you can target certain positions of need.
Look how we got stuck with Flowers who may have been the best LOT on the board with the 9th pick. They probably should have taken Gurley. Now the Giants are unsure WTH to do with Flowers.
they'd have:
Flowers: 1st
Pugh: 1st
Richburg: 2nd
RG: TBD
RT: 1st (I assume or even flip this with Flowers)
The Cowboys also have 3 1sts (Smith, Frederick, and Martin), but the other two are 4th (Free) and UDFA (Leary)
at some point your talent evaluation of the OL needs to be questioned and you might be better off bringing in proven vets and spending FA cash instead of premium draft picks.
Flowers shows nothing to me at this point and seems to be a problematic player. If his techniques is still bad after two years, 33 starts, two training camps and all that practice, what does that say to you? Flats and Solari are excellent OL coaches.
To me, that says everything you need to know about this player. Unfortunately, this is a bad draft for the OL or so I hear. Nonetheless, Reese better do something positive. Eli is now 36 and JR has ruined his last five years, mostly because of a bad offensive line.
Neither one of those are true, for us.
I was hoping Sy'56s writeups on OL had more candidates, and the gradings were better; neither one of those are true for us, especially at #23.
And the FA class is: Get the best of whatever there is. Leary MIGHT happen, but will he leave a Dallas team thats arrows up? Same with Rieff,Lang, and 1-2 others on contenders. What does Whitworth have at 35y.o., will Smith leave Minny?
And, aside from $$$, do any of them fit our OL scheme?
Dallas is 17 million over the cap. They are screwed next year. They already have their OL locked up and literally can't afford to keep Leary as a luxury 6th OL. That's why they signed Cooper.
Projected 2017 Salary Cap Space: $-16,979,697
2017 Dead Money: $259,598
Simply put, the Dallas Cowboys have a lot of salary cap work to do between now and the 2017 season.
They can start by restructuring contracts for guys like quarterback Tony Romo ($24.7 million cap hit), wide receiver Dez Bryant ($17 million cap hit), left tackle Tyron Smith ($15.8 million cap hit), linebacker Sean Lee ($9.95 million cap hit), and tight end Jason Witten ($9.512 million cap hit). There is also a chance that they could completely part ways with Romo — which would free up a huge chunk of change — if rookie quarterback Dak Prescott continues to play at a high level.
When all is said and done, it’s highly unlikely that the Cowboys will be able to free up enough cap space to be aggressive during free agency next offseason. However, they should be able to keep their core group of players intact if they do things right.
They are boned cap wise.
http://www.cheatsheet.com/sports/nfl-teams-facing-salary-cap-issues-2017.html/?a=viewall - ( New Window )
Flowers, Richburg, and Pugh will obviously start. Flowers might be moved to the right.
Jerry will likely be gone.
I wouldn't be shocked if Hart is a starter.
We are probably looking at one new starter. A tackle if Flowers moves, if he doesn't move it could be a guard. They could also move Hart inside.
Historically, Reese tries to plug as many holes as possible in FA so there's a little more flexibility in the draft. The OL has the most holes with Jerry and Newhouse as FA's along with performance issues of the OL as a whole.
I could see Reese signing a few OL in FA of the non-sexy variety and drafting an OL somewhere before the 4th round.
Flowers shows nothing to me at this point and seems to be a problematic player. If his techniques is still bad after two years, 33 starts, two training camps and all that practice, what does that say to you? Flats and Solari are excellent OL coaches.
To me, that says everything you need to know about this player. Unfortunately, this is a bad draft for the OL or so I hear. Nonetheless, Reese better do something positive. Eli is now 36 and JR has ruined his last five years, mostly because of a bad offensive line.
It also tells me that the Giants are not good at selecting Oline talent from rounds 3-7 (and UDFAs.)
I cannot see why our Giants should be forced into the position of drafting Oline in rounds 1 and 2. That's where your damn playmakers usually come from. Sure, if an Oline guy is that good you take him early. Giants pissed away a pick on Flowers who should have been a 2nd or 3rd rounder let alone the 9th pick of the draft.
Brian Williams basically did not play until his 6th year - you do not have that luxury any more
E. Moore was OK - certainly not close to justifying the 10th pick in the draft
If those guys were picked by Reese, with 1 a spot starter, 1 basically not playing and 1 not justifying the 10th pick, as a G he would be vilified more than he already is
At least it helped make up for his cluster drafting of WR in 85-87:
S. Robinson, T. Henderson, V. Warren, R. Brown, S. Miller, S. Baker, O. Turner, M. Ingram
Com'on, Brown in the 1st and Pierce in the 3rd is a cluster?
For two straight years in the late 80's the Giants used both #1 and #2 picks on OL. That's the top four picks over two years.