This will likely be an unpopular opinion to share on this site, as many fans still blindly back Victor based on the wonderful success he had several years ago. This does not take anything away from his incredible breakout in 2011, helping lead us to a championship, and his production the two following years. He will always be remembered as a great Giant during that time.
Cruz, having finally made his way back in 2016 after multiple failed attempts from a horrific injury, was the leader of our WR corps by default this year. Cruz, 30 years old, and self proclaimed "brother" and "best friend" to Beckham (24), as well as Shepard (23) , Roger Lewis (23). Any one who watches this team every Sunday, follows them on any form of social media or otherwise knows how close-knit this group is. And Victor, a seasoned veteran and adult by many years in age, was the default leader of the group.
Sure, Cruz played out of position a lot of the time this season. But he has lost (not 1, but) 3 steps, and is not close to the same playmaker anymore. In addition to his lack of productivity on the field, he has not made up for it by showing any leadership off the field for this team, and most importantly for the WR corps.
When Cruz came out publicly and complained about a lack of targets after the Steelers game
Linked here from NJ.com it really magnified his lack of leadership on the team. McAdoo was forced to answer questions about that and have a sit down with Victor the following week- Cruz does not have the current play-making ability to make a claim like that, let alone command of any type of leadership in the locker room to support a public outcry like that.
This guy is who Odell (and our rookies) are learning from. Yeah, he burst on the scene, overnight, out of nowhere a few years ago, just a kid from Paterson (and he won't let you forget that). He's always been about his own personal brand- which is totally fine, and his right, and helped him get through his 2+ years of recovery, and maintain his image- but he has basically been riding the coattails of Odell's fame and celebrity over the course of this year and last. He is always the adult, the veteran, the (would-be) leader in the room, but he has not shown it at all this year.
I felt this way the whole season, mostly related to his lack of production on the field- but demand for publicity off it, and demand for targets on it. This has been continually magnified all season, and continued through the boat trip (which I am not here to break down, who cares in the end)- but the fact does remain that he was on that boat with his (little) "brother" Odell, and the rookies on this team in Lewis and Shepard. And all year he looked like a guy trying to ride one last run of fame, sticking by Odell's side in the spotlight, almost trying to relive what he knows and learned himself in 2011- a guy being thrust into a celebrity image overnight.
Here is hoping (from my personal opinion) that we cut bait with Cruz this offseason, rather than making any attempt to restructure his deal and keep him around. I will always love him and he will be remembered a Giants legend for the amazing run in 2011, the Giants-Jets 99 yarder that turned our season on Christmas Eve, and many other memories he left us with. But right now- he is not a difference maker on the field anymore, and he is far from a leader in the locker room, which is EXACTLY what Beckham and the rookies need right now and going forward.
Ebenezer Samuel released an excellent piece yesterday which touched on most of these points. It's linked below. This excerpt below beautifully describes the idea behind the article.
It ends with Cruz, once the Giants’ heart and soul, selling his soul to stay in Club Beckham, never daring to serve as the voice of reason to his teammates in Miami, just as he was never willing to call out Beckham (or anyone else) in the locker room this entire season.
If Victor Cruz's time with Giants is over, failure to be leader will be lasting impression - (
New Window )
Cruz does appear to be a bit of a follower yet I'm disappointed how much he's been bashed by so many fans. The guy's story is great and he was a huge part of the Giants winning that Super Bowl. He got injured, battled back and was put out of position. So many fickle fans have ridiculed him and he deserves better.
He might be more of a follower than a leader yet he's much more of a winner than loser riducle sent in his direction before Miami.
I agree that VC looks like he has lost much of the quickness that made him so special. That will be what derails his career, not that he was a poor example to Odell.
Do OBJ's celebration issues have a direct lineage to the "look at me" salsa? Perhaps.
But we can't go too far with this. We don't see what's really happening behind the scenes, and Cruz has been much more positive than negative over his career, showing consitent hard work and proving to be a good team mate. If he isn't brought back, and the price didn't seem to be an issue, than this argument will have more merit
This is all I really meant here. Cruz's (alleged) lack of leadership is not an excuse for the actions of other grown men. But the public complaining about targets in December, the following OBJ/riding his success while also being his "brother" and the more established veteran, when he is 1/4 the player he used to be, and other things he has done.
I just think the team will be better off without Cruz going forward. Not just based on his on lack of on-field ability, but his day to day presence.
I respect differing opinions, but this is not just about the boat, and I think Cruz gets cut a lot of slack on and off the field due to past success.
Definitely agree, but it's hard to bash Cruz when he's just trying to get back on the field himself, time to move on.
All this other crap about no shirts and party boats...it's all fucking noise. It's candy for the press and fans that don't have the attention span to truly invest in the actual game of football.
How many "dysfunctional" teams have won NFL titles? How many have won MLB WS titles? NBA titles? Dozens. When a team loses, the locker room dirt gets stirred up for all to see. When the team wins, no one cares about that dirt. But the dirt is always there. Make no mistake.
Isn't that better than getting your frustrations out on the field and getting a penalty? Who did he hurt by doing that other than his face after the net hit him back?
Have you never played a game and got frustrated by your own play or the refs calls or whatever? What would be better having a tantrum on the field or kicking something on the sidelines?
I'm tired of hearing about the net incident like it was a big deal. It wasn't. He was frustrated and took it out on the net. BFD.
All this other crap about no shirts and party boats...it's all fucking noise. It's candy for the press and fans that don't have the attention span to truly invest in the actual game of football.
How many "dysfunctional" teams have won NFL titles? How many have won MLB WS titles? NBA titles? Dozens. When a team loses, the locker room dirt gets stirred up for all to see. When the team wins, no one cares about that dirt. But the dirt is always there. Make no mistake.
Great post, djm. My favorite comment was Troy Aikman saying how the Miami trip would never have happened on his Dallas teams. Why go to Miami when players rent a house just for hookers and blow? LOL.
Isn't that better than getting your frustrations out on the field and getting a penalty? Who did he hurt by doing that other than his face after the net hit him back?
Have you never played a game and got frustrated by your own play or the refs calls or whatever? What would be better having a tantrum on the field or kicking something on the sidelines?
I'm tired of hearing about the net incident like it was a big deal. It wasn't. He was frustrated and took it out on the net. BFD.
I think you can say he was frustrated and took it out on the net. That's fine for the first net tantrum. But the ongoing soap opera that followed and ended with a marriage proposal was not frustration. It was immature and stupid and embarrassing, IMHO.
Talent wins. Not choir boys that go to bed on time. Aikman is so full of shit on this one it's laughable. Beckham wants to win as much as anyone. He dropped a few balls in 0 degree weather and now everyone wants to gauge the team's dedication to winning? When Beckham lost his mind on the sidelines with the net what happened 2-3 weeks later? The Giants went on a 6 game winning streak!
It's all bullshit.
Leadership? No. Just chillin with his boys. Doesn't want to be a leader, just wants to cash those checks and fit in, feel young still.
That's fine, he doesn't have to be in it anymore, but the Giants need to recognize that, and not be sentimental.
Talent wins. Not choir boys that go to bed on time. Aikman is so full of shit on this one it's laughable. Beckham wants to win as much as anyone. He dropped a few balls in 0 degree weather and now everyone wants to gauge the team's dedication to winning? When Beckham lost his mind on the sidelines with the net what happened 2-3 weeks later? The Giants went on a 6 game winning streak!
It's all bullshit.
+1000
And Cruz has nothing to do with it....
Give it a rest
Leadership? No. Just chillin with his boys. Doesn't want to be a leader, just wants to cash those checks and fit in, feel young still.
That's fine, he doesn't have to be in it anymore, but the Giants need to recognize that, and not be sentimental.
And you know that...how? Oh, you can "see it in everything he does"! What keen insight. More like what unadulterated bullshit. He worked his ass off to come back from a very serious injury. He wouldn't be the first not to make it all that way back, in fact, he'd be one of the few if he did.
I agree that VC's days as a Giant are probably over, but there is no need to throw dirt on him on the way out. He was a huge part of a SB team, and for that I will always be grateful.
If someone told you all back in July that Cruz would play 15 games, and finish with around 40 catches for 500 yards and make a big play here and there....EVERYONE here would have said fine with me. At least he's playing and giving the Giants a spark once in a while. EVeryone signs for that. Then he does just that and now everyone can't wait to ride the guy out of town and look for a replacement, which is fine, the guy is nearing the end here. Nothing wrong with that...but I said it in July...be careful what you wish for...well...you got it. Cruz gutted it out and played on old legs. What the hell did some of you expect?
Same reason why reporters make things up like the flight nonsense and then the morning show of the flagship station for the Giants continues to report it as fact instead of contacting the Giants.
Give Victor Cruz credit. He went on Francesa yesterday when he didn't have to and answered every question honestly.
I think you can say he was frustrated and took it out on the net. That's fine for the first net tantrum. But the ongoing soap opera that followed and ended with a marriage proposal was not frustration. It was immature and stupid and embarrassing, IMHO.
I agree that it was stupid, but how did it hurt the team? It didn't. His teammates probably laughed at him for being a dork.
And he won FIVE world championships.
I don't mean to sound overly harsh because he was a tremendous player, but he's done. His fate was sealed when we took Shepard.
to me the problem with Odell is that they let him go way to far with his bullshit. starting with his pregame display that they call a warmup. it's not about warming up for the game. that is about him building his brand and putting on a show.
and the childish acting during games and such. he's a young player and it seems like someone like Cruz, who should be a voice in his ear, doesn't want to or can't get through to him. maybe they think he's so good they are afraid of him telling him not to do shit cause he'll just go find a team that will allow him to.
and the decision to go on vacation for 36 hours on his off days. maybe that wasn't a great idea. or maybe they shouldn't have advertised it on social media. hopefully he'll learn from the whole thing. but sadly, i don't thin he will.
Quote:
were a fucking circus. But they won. Why? Because they were loaded with talent.
Talent wins. Not choir boys that go to bed on time. Aikman is so full of shit on this one it's laughable. Beckham wants to win as much as anyone. He dropped a few balls in 0 degree weather and now everyone wants to gauge the team's dedication to winning? When Beckham lost his mind on the sidelines with the net what happened 2-3 weeks later? The Giants went on a 6 game winning streak!
It's all bullshit.
+1000
And Cruz has nothing to do with it....
Give it a rest
In fairness, Aikmans Cowboy's didnt have social media. In fact, a lot of things were different back then.
If Aikmans Cowboy's existed today, they would not be winning.
The Miami trip was nothing too. They were on time and at practice when they needed to be there. They had good practices. People try and find a problem because they were in Miami. It's another thing that meant nothing and now Cruz gets ripped for it. That's BS. He spent time with his fellow WRs on a boat on a day off. That means nothing.
But we lost and had some dropped passes in a game so it's time to reach to find excuses for it.
Other than the helmet dive into Norman's face, or maybe the hole in the wall in GB, I have no problem with how OBJ reveals his emotions, the boat trip, the net, or anything else.
OBJ is the anti-Eli of emotions. Eli wears his despair or frustration on his 'faces'then its over, OBJ in his 'antics', then it's over. The media: It's NY, it sells, the league made him a target once he did the helmet move, so it's a Monday sportswriter freebee about his dance, celebration, interview, boat trip(which had ZERO to do with his performance Sunday), who he dates, car he drive, farting in public, how he breaths...
We all need to gain perspective; it was fun when it was Owens, or Dez crying about his QB, or somebody somewhere else, but now it's our guy. Let the media have its fun, but fans need to let it go.
Be more concerned that he drops the ball far too often because as I've said in other threads, he runs without the ball first.
I'm more upset about NO flags for excessive celebration when a guy jumps up into the stands after a TD,uh hum esp. GB, gets hugged for 15 seconds then jumps down,and gets another celebration by teammates in the endzone.
Cruz is some ways is stick fighting for his NFL life, going out a winner could have helped him in many ways. Even a vocal leader kicking butt and taking names.
Giants did their best to stick with him. Before the salary cap his chances of staying would be greater. But the players and the union was part of the deal process too.
Wish him the very best. Can see the giants trying to find a home for him within the family if he chooses to not play. Regardless hope things go well for him.
Everyone wanted him to become a great WR after his comeback.
As a fan do not have the answer. Everything else is a question mark until our front office speaks.
The Miami trip was nothing too. They were on time and at practice when they needed to be there. They had good practices. People try and find a problem because they were in Miami. It's another thing that meant nothing and now Cruz gets ripped for it. That's BS. He spent time with his fellow WRs on a boat on a day off. That means nothing.
But we lost and had some dropped passes in a game so it's time to reach to find excuses for it.
I agree, but if you don't perform, you have to answer for the bad optics, no matter how dumb the narrative is.
Similar to Manningham.
Maybe he did talk with Beckham about possible repercussions. Maybe they didnt care because it was nothing but a few guys going on a boat and nothing else.
Beckham has done plenty of things wrong. This isn't one of them. And nobody should mention Cruz in this story. That guy has never been a problem in any way. He's been great in NY.
4+5 WRs have to play specials and you are not going to spend $$$ on a #6.
**A note: The team got crushed but perhaps no individual Giant feels better than Tavarres King right now. His deep catches vs. the Skins and Packers were clutch and what the O was missing. But he was behind Lewis and Harris on specials, so as the #6 didn't play. King has momentum heading into the offseason and a big opportunity. Odell can make the WR playing opposite him a very rich man. King has real talent and may be able to allow the Giants to spend resources on OL, TE and RB instead of WR.
Perhaps the dumbest post on a dumb thread. Congrats
This wasn't even Pat Leonard.
I'm not sure if being at the Daily News makes a sportswriter a moron or if that's a prerequisite for employment.
I honestly don't know why we even have newspapers anymore.
Wow, that's a pretty crazy thought IMO.
Yeah let's blame the most stable player, outside of Eli, on the team for whatever asinine shit this knucklehead is spouting.
Stop it. Effin stop it. The trip (all 2.5 hrs of it) had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the game on Sunday. Holy crap I'd like to smack the living crap out of people who think a trip to Miami, on a day off, made Beckham drop a couple passes (and Shepard).
Grow up, Just grow up.
You're also correct that none of that changes what he did for the Giants in the past. Or how sad it is for us fans to witness such a sudden fall for VC. Injury is a brutal truth of life in the NFL Victor is done. he won't be back in blue next season...at any price.
Now we can all move on and simply reflect on his great years, his cinderella story and the impact he had bringing home a Lombardi Trophy.
You're also correct that none of that changes what he did for the Giants in the past. Or how sad it is for us fans to witness such a sudden fall for VC. Injury is a brutal truth of life in the NFL Victor is done. he won't be back in blue next season...at any price.
Now we can all move on and simply reflect on his great years, his cinderella story and the impact he had bringing home a Lombardi Trophy.
I don't remember ever saying this about any poster before, but you are a knucklehead. Complete knucklehead to blame Cruz for anything in the locker room is just ignorant nonsense.
I'll double down - who really gives a shit if they went to Miami.
Hey blame Eli, he is the heart and soul of the offense. Blame Eli. It is Eli's fault that the WRs went to Miami; Eli's fault why OBJ got crazy on Norman. What the hell is wrong with you?
Try be informed about what actually happens on the team you follow before running your mouth about other posters opinions. Thanks.
Try be informed about what actually happens on the team you follow before running your mouth about other posters opinions. Thanks.
Amani Toomer intimated there was a conspiracy to keep him from getting the ball at the end of his last season in NY. But no one brings that up now, even when he criticizes Shockey for being selfish. These guys are human beings... they're not perfect. That being said, don't blame them for someone else's decisions/behavior.
The problem isn't "leadership". The problem is they didn't play well enough in a big game, just like Eli Manning played like dogshit in his first playoff appearance. Let's stop making it about more than that.
I believe OBJ will grow into it, but this year it was an issue.
What you consider leadership is actually personality. They are not the same. There were long stretches where Tuck didn't act like a leader of this team and same goes for Jacobs. They were strong personalities, for sure...but let's stop with this false revisionist history about them being two great consistent leaders.
In that time Odell established himself as the best offensive talent on the team and arguably the best WR in the game. So IMO it isn't reasonable to place blame on Cruz for Odell's lack of maturity in year three of his career.
It's a nice rant but at this point Odell and not Cruz is the "man" in the WR corp and responsible for himself. Furthermore how do you even know that Cruz's presence didn't help prevent a Carolina like meltdown this season at some point?
Ummm... weren't those dudes on the team when Plaxico Burress was showing up late for practices, missing practices, and eventually shooting himself in the leg? Those things seem a helluva lot more significant to me than a hole in the wall or a boat ride on a day off.
Don't let the media convince you that Odell's "crap" is more important than it really is.