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Victor Cruz and failed leadership, effect on OBJ

27 : 1/11/2017 8:55 am
This will likely be an unpopular opinion to share on this site, as many fans still blindly back Victor based on the wonderful success he had several years ago. This does not take anything away from his incredible breakout in 2011, helping lead us to a championship, and his production the two following years. He will always be remembered as a great Giant during that time.

Cruz, having finally made his way back in 2016 after multiple failed attempts from a horrific injury, was the leader of our WR corps by default this year. Cruz, 30 years old, and self proclaimed "brother" and "best friend" to Beckham (24), as well as Shepard (23) , Roger Lewis (23). Any one who watches this team every Sunday, follows them on any form of social media or otherwise knows how close-knit this group is. And Victor, a seasoned veteran and adult by many years in age, was the default leader of the group.

Sure, Cruz played out of position a lot of the time this season. But he has lost (not 1, but) 3 steps, and is not close to the same playmaker anymore. In addition to his lack of productivity on the field, he has not made up for it by showing any leadership off the field for this team, and most importantly for the WR corps.

When Cruz came out publicly and complained about a lack of targets after the Steelers game Linked here from NJ.com it really magnified his lack of leadership on the team. McAdoo was forced to answer questions about that and have a sit down with Victor the following week- Cruz does not have the current play-making ability to make a claim like that, let alone command of any type of leadership in the locker room to support a public outcry like that.

This guy is who Odell (and our rookies) are learning from. Yeah, he burst on the scene, overnight, out of nowhere a few years ago, just a kid from Paterson (and he won't let you forget that). He's always been about his own personal brand- which is totally fine, and his right, and helped him get through his 2+ years of recovery, and maintain his image- but he has basically been riding the coattails of Odell's fame and celebrity over the course of this year and last. He is always the adult, the veteran, the (would-be) leader in the room, but he has not shown it at all this year.

I felt this way the whole season, mostly related to his lack of production on the field- but demand for publicity off it, and demand for targets on it. This has been continually magnified all season, and continued through the boat trip (which I am not here to break down, who cares in the end)- but the fact does remain that he was on that boat with his (little) "brother" Odell, and the rookies on this team in Lewis and Shepard. And all year he looked like a guy trying to ride one last run of fame, sticking by Odell's side in the spotlight, almost trying to relive what he knows and learned himself in 2011- a guy being thrust into a celebrity image overnight.

Here is hoping (from my personal opinion) that we cut bait with Cruz this offseason, rather than making any attempt to restructure his deal and keep him around. I will always love him and he will be remembered a Giants legend for the amazing run in 2011, the Giants-Jets 99 yarder that turned our season on Christmas Eve, and many other memories he left us with. But right now- he is not a difference maker on the field anymore, and he is far from a leader in the locker room, which is EXACTLY what Beckham and the rookies need right now and going forward.

Ebenezer Samuel released an excellent piece yesterday which touched on most of these points. It's linked below. This excerpt below beautifully describes the idea behind the article.

It ends with Cruz, once the Giantsí heart and soul, selling his soul to stay in Club Beckham, never daring to serve as the voice of reason to his teammates in Miami, just as he was never willing to call out Beckham (or anyone else) in the locker room this entire season.


If Victor Cruz's time with Giants is over, failure to be leader will be lasting impression - ( New Window )
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RE: I'm really down on Cruz  
Giants2012 : 1/11/2017 9:48 am : link
In comment 13321032 theold5j said:
Quote:
he should know better (like the miami trip and pre game warmups), but he is a follower of Odell.


Cruz does appear to be a bit of a follower yet I'm disappointed how much he's been bashed by so many fans. The guy's story is great and he was a huge part of the Giants winning that Super Bowl. He got injured, battled back and was put out of position. So many fickle fans have ridiculed him and he deserves better.

He might be more of a follower than a leader yet he's much more of a winner than loser riducle sent in his direction before Miami.

What fans blindly back Cruz?  
Johnny5 : 1/11/2017 9:54 am : link
From what I see most of BBI wants to move on. He certainly doesn't fit the role he was put in this season and I personally wanted to see him take more reps from the slot over Shepard, but I'd bet good money he won't be here next year. I'm probably his biggest fan and I don't see people blindly supporting him. He really doesn't fit this offense anymore with Shepard here.
We have no idea how much or how little  
Section331 : 1/11/2017 9:54 am : link
influence VC pulled in the locker room. Stick to what he does on the field, or call him out for doing something stupid off the field. I haven't heard any examples of the latter.

I agree that VC looks like he has lost much of the quickness that made him so special. That will be what derails his career, not that he was a poor example to Odell.
RE: There were a couple times  
27 : 1/11/2017 9:56 am : link
In comment 13321033 SirYesSir said:
Quote:
I felt as if it seemed Cruz could be doing a better job handling himself and the young wr's, so I get the op's point here.

Do OBJ's celebration issues have a direct lineage to the "look at me" salsa? Perhaps.

But we can't go too far with this. We don't see what's really happening behind the scenes, and Cruz has been much more positive than negative over his career, showing consitent hard work and proving to be a good team mate. If he isn't brought back, and the price didn't seem to be an issue, than this argument will have more merit


This is all I really meant here. Cruz's (alleged) lack of leadership is not an excuse for the actions of other grown men. But the public complaining about targets in December, the following OBJ/riding his success while also being his "brother" and the more established veteran, when he is 1/4 the player he used to be, and other things he has done.

I just think the team will be better off without Cruz going forward. Not just based on his on lack of on-field ability, but his day to day presence.

I respect differing opinions, but this is not just about the boat, and I think Cruz gets cut a lot of slack on and off the field due to past success.
RE: NYG is a relatively young, unseasoned team  
gmenatlarge : 1/11/2017 9:59 am : link
In comment 13321024 JonC said:
Quote:
It needs leadership to emerge and grow everywhere inside the locker room.

Definitely agree, but it's hard to bash Cruz when he's just trying to get back on the field himself, time to move on.
it's all noise  
djm : 1/11/2017 10:04 am : link
..a lot of Giants players need to mature just a bit more. They obviously needed to be a bit humbled. And they were.

All this other crap about no shirts and party boats...it's all fucking noise. It's candy for the press and fans that don't have the attention span to truly invest in the actual game of football.

How many "dysfunctional" teams have won NFL titles? How many have won MLB WS titles? NBA titles? Dozens. When a team loses, the locker room dirt gets stirred up for all to see. When the team wins, no one cares about that dirt. But the dirt is always there. Make no mistake.
People keep mentioning  
Gman11 : 1/11/2017 10:05 am : link
about Odell kicking the stupid net.

Isn't that better than getting your frustrations out on the field and getting a penalty? Who did he hurt by doing that other than his face after the net hit him back?

Have you never played a game and got frustrated by your own play or the refs calls or whatever? What would be better having a tantrum on the field or kicking something on the sidelines?

I'm tired of hearing about the net incident like it was a big deal. It wasn't. He was frustrated and took it out on the net. BFD.
RE: it's all noise  
Section331 : 1/11/2017 10:13 am : link
In comment 13321093 djm said:
Quote:
..a lot of Giants players need to mature just a bit more. They obviously needed to be a bit humbled. And they were.

All this other crap about no shirts and party boats...it's all fucking noise. It's candy for the press and fans that don't have the attention span to truly invest in the actual game of football.

How many "dysfunctional" teams have won NFL titles? How many have won MLB WS titles? NBA titles? Dozens. When a team loses, the locker room dirt gets stirred up for all to see. When the team wins, no one cares about that dirt. But the dirt is always there. Make no mistake.


Great post, djm. My favorite comment was Troy Aikman saying how the Miami trip would never have happened on his Dallas teams. Why go to Miami when players rent a house just for hookers and blow? LOL.
RE: People keep mentioning  
KingBlue : 1/11/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13321095 Gman11 said:
Quote:
about Odell kicking the stupid net.

Isn't that better than getting your frustrations out on the field and getting a penalty? Who did he hurt by doing that other than his face after the net hit him back?

Have you never played a game and got frustrated by your own play or the refs calls or whatever? What would be better having a tantrum on the field or kicking something on the sidelines?

I'm tired of hearing about the net incident like it was a big deal. It wasn't. He was frustrated and took it out on the net. BFD.


I think you can say he was frustrated and took it out on the net. That's fine for the first net tantrum. But the ongoing soap opera that followed and ended with a marriage proposal was not frustration. It was immature and stupid and embarrassing, IMHO.
Aikman's Cowboys  
djm : 1/11/2017 10:18 am : link
were a fucking circus. But they won. Why? Because they were loaded with talent.

Talent wins. Not choir boys that go to bed on time. Aikman is so full of shit on this one it's laughable. Beckham wants to win as much as anyone. He dropped a few balls in 0 degree weather and now everyone wants to gauge the team's dedication to winning? When Beckham lost his mind on the sidelines with the net what happened 2-3 weeks later? The Giants went on a 6 game winning streak!

It's all bullshit.
To be fair...  
Mike From Brielle : 1/11/2017 10:21 am : link
IMHO I think Victor had some demons he had to wrestle with himself this year coming back from an horrific injury. He's not the coach. But in the NY media market you have to be careful what you say. I don't think the team knew whether or not he was going to be back this year and know what they were going to do with him if he was. Someone probably should have figured that out and sat down with him and explained the situation of how he was going to be used and what was expected of him.
Cruz just doesn't care about football anymore.  
area junc : 1/11/2017 10:29 am : link
You can just see it in everything he does. He is not the same possessed guy that came into the league, not even close. he's there to sign his check and go home.

Leadership? No. Just chillin with his boys. Doesn't want to be a leader, just wants to cash those checks and fit in, feel young still.

That's fine, he doesn't have to be in it anymore, but the Giants need to recognize that, and not be sentimental.
RE: Aikman's Cowboys  
Sec 103 : 1/11/2017 10:29 am : link
In comment 13321139 djm said:
Quote:
were a fucking circus. But they won. Why? Because they were loaded with talent.

Talent wins. Not choir boys that go to bed on time. Aikman is so full of shit on this one it's laughable. Beckham wants to win as much as anyone. He dropped a few balls in 0 degree weather and now everyone wants to gauge the team's dedication to winning? When Beckham lost his mind on the sidelines with the net what happened 2-3 weeks later? The Giants went on a 6 game winning streak!

It's all bullshit.

+1000
And Cruz has nothing to do with it....
Give it a rest
Why do fans make stuff up  
Ron Johnson 30 : 1/11/2017 10:32 am : link
with zero basis?
RE: Cruz just doesn't care about football anymore.  
Section331 : 1/11/2017 10:33 am : link
In comment 13321164 area junc said:
Quote:
You can just see it in everything he does. He is not the same possessed guy that came into the league, not even close. he's there to sign his check and go home.

Leadership? No. Just chillin with his boys. Doesn't want to be a leader, just wants to cash those checks and fit in, feel young still.

That's fine, he doesn't have to be in it anymore, but the Giants need to recognize that, and not be sentimental.



And you know that...how? Oh, you can "see it in everything he does"! What keen insight. More like what unadulterated bullshit. He worked his ass off to come back from a very serious injury. He wouldn't be the first not to make it all that way back, in fact, he'd be one of the few if he did.

I agree that VC's days as a Giant are probably over, but there is no need to throw dirt on him on the way out. He was a huge part of a SB team, and for that I will always be grateful.
the Cruz situation here  
djm : 1/11/2017 10:38 am : link
is a prime example of fickle fans that say one thing one minute only to completely lose their logic the next.

If someone told you all back in July that Cruz would play 15 games, and finish with around 40 catches for 500 yards and make a big play here and there....EVERYONE here would have said fine with me. At least he's playing and giving the Giants a spark once in a while. EVeryone signs for that. Then he does just that and now everyone can't wait to ride the guy out of town and look for a replacement, which is fine, the guy is nearing the end here. Nothing wrong with that...but I said it in July...be careful what you wish for...well...you got it. Cruz gutted it out and played on old legs. What the hell did some of you expect?

RE: Why do fans make stuff up  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 1/11/2017 10:44 am : link
In comment 13321172 Ron Johnson 30 said:
Quote:
with zero basis?


Same reason why reporters make things up like the flight nonsense and then the morning show of the flagship station for the Giants continues to report it as fact instead of contacting the Giants.

Give Victor Cruz credit. He went on Francesa yesterday when he didn't have to and answered every question honestly.
RE: RE: People keep mentioning  
Gman11 : 1/11/2017 11:06 am : link
In comment 13321128 KingBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 13321095 Gman11 said:
I think you can say he was frustrated and took it out on the net. That's fine for the first net tantrum. But the ongoing soap opera that followed and ended with a marriage proposal was not frustration. It was immature and stupid and embarrassing, IMHO.


I agree that it was stupid, but how did it hurt the team? It didn't. His teammates probably laughed at him for being a dork.
Reggie Jackson  
djm : 1/11/2017 11:12 am : link
was probably the biggest prima-donna, me first, self absorbed star athlete of the 20th century. The guy literally caused locker rooms to explode. He drove mgrs to drink. He drove teammates to the point of raging lunacy. He caused chaos. Then caused more chaos.

And he won FIVE world championships.
Section331.  
area junc : 1/11/2017 11:16 am : link
It's just my observation, I'm OK if you don't agree with it. He comes off hollow to me. A walking cliche.

I don't mean to sound overly harsh because he was a tremendous player, but he's done. His fate was sealed when we took Shepard.
there is an overall lack of leadership on the team  
theold5j : 1/11/2017 11:18 am : link
but when the team is winning nobody cares about it. it's at times like this when we all complain about it.

to me the problem with Odell is that they let him go way to far with his bullshit. starting with his pregame display that they call a warmup. it's not about warming up for the game. that is about him building his brand and putting on a show.

and the childish acting during games and such. he's a young player and it seems like someone like Cruz, who should be a voice in his ear, doesn't want to or can't get through to him. maybe they think he's so good they are afraid of him telling him not to do shit cause he'll just go find a team that will allow him to.

and the decision to go on vacation for 36 hours on his off days. maybe that wasn't a great idea. or maybe they shouldn't have advertised it on social media. hopefully he'll learn from the whole thing. but sadly, i don't thin he will.
Players can get away with this  
Giant John : 1/11/2017 11:22 am : link
When they win. Lose a big game after a trip and baby the worm will turn and bite you in the ass.
RE: RE: Aikman's Cowboys  
Brown Recluse : 1/11/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13321166 Sec 103 said:
Quote:
In comment 13321139 djm said:


Quote:


were a fucking circus. But they won. Why? Because they were loaded with talent.

Talent wins. Not choir boys that go to bed on time. Aikman is so full of shit on this one it's laughable. Beckham wants to win as much as anyone. He dropped a few balls in 0 degree weather and now everyone wants to gauge the team's dedication to winning? When Beckham lost his mind on the sidelines with the net what happened 2-3 weeks later? The Giants went on a 6 game winning streak!

It's all bullshit.


+1000
And Cruz has nothing to do with it....
Give it a rest


In fairness, Aikmans Cowboy's didnt have social media. In fact, a lot of things were different back then.

If Aikmans Cowboy's existed today, they would not be winning.
That's all a bunch of BS  
KWALL2 : 1/11/2017 11:47 am : link
Starting with a player "complaining" about targets. It means nothing. It had.no impact. Maybe he was frustrated and talked about it a little. So what? It required a short talk with the coach? Big deal.

The Miami trip was nothing too. They were on time and at practice when they needed to be there. They had good practices. People try and find a problem because they were in Miami. It's another thing that meant nothing and now Cruz gets ripped for it. That's BS. He spent time with his fellow WRs on a boat on a day off. That means nothing.

But we lost and had some dropped passes in a game so it's time to reach to find excuses for it.
You think YOUR opinion  
old man : 1/11/2017 12:13 pm : link
may be unpopular, wait til this one!
Other than the helmet dive into Norman's face, or maybe the hole in the wall in GB, I have no problem with how OBJ reveals his emotions, the boat trip, the net, or anything else.
OBJ is the anti-Eli of emotions. Eli wears his despair or frustration on his 'faces'then its over, OBJ in his 'antics', then it's over. The media: It's NY, it sells, the league made him a target once he did the helmet move, so it's a Monday sportswriter freebee about his dance, celebration, interview, boat trip(which had ZERO to do with his performance Sunday), who he dates, car he drive, farting in public, how he breaths...
We all need to gain perspective; it was fun when it was Owens, or Dez crying about his QB, or somebody somewhere else, but now it's our guy. Let the media have its fun, but fans need to let it go.
Be more concerned that he drops the ball far too often because as I've said in other threads, he runs without the ball first.
I'm more upset about NO flags for excessive celebration when a guy jumps up into the stands after a TD,uh hum esp. GB, gets hugged for 15 seconds then jumps down,and gets another celebration by teammates in the endzone.
Leaders  
Simms : 1/11/2017 1:16 pm : link
I do not pin this on Cruz totally, but some like Steve Smith who played the game do.

Cruz is some ways is stick fighting for his NFL life, going out a winner could have helped him in many ways. Even a vocal leader kicking butt and taking names.

Giants did their best to stick with him. Before the salary cap his chances of staying would be greater. But the players and the union was part of the deal process too.

Wish him the very best. Can see the giants trying to find a home for him within the family if he chooses to not play. Regardless hope things go well for him.

Everyone wanted him to become a great WR after his comeback.
As a fan do not have the answer. Everything else is a question mark until our front office speaks.
RE: That's all a bunch of BS  
David in LA : 1/11/2017 1:34 pm : link
In comment 13321363 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Starting with a player "complaining" about targets. It means nothing. It had.no impact. Maybe he was frustrated and talked about it a little. So what? It required a short talk with the coach? Big deal.

The Miami trip was nothing too. They were on time and at practice when they needed to be there. They had good practices. People try and find a problem because they were in Miami. It's another thing that meant nothing and now Cruz gets ripped for it. That's BS. He spent time with his fellow WRs on a boat on a day off. That means nothing.

But we lost and had some dropped passes in a game so it's time to reach to find excuses for it.


I agree, but if you don't perform, you have to answer for the bad optics, no matter how dumb the narrative is.
Cruz will get a pay cut  
spike : 1/11/2017 1:55 pm : link
nad come back to camp for another chance.

Similar to Manningham.
David  
KWALL2 : 1/11/2017 2:04 pm : link
Beckham answers a few more questions after a loss should not mean Cruz lacks leadership.

Maybe he did talk with Beckham about possible repercussions. Maybe they didnt care because it was nothing but a few guys going on a boat and nothing else.

Beckham has done plenty of things wrong. This isn't one of them. And nobody should mention Cruz in this story. That guy has never been a problem in any way. He's been great in NY.
Roster dynamics  
area junc : 1/11/2017 2:37 pm : link
We've been thru this, if he's not going to be in the top 3 WRs you can't justify him. he showed he isn't an outside threat - so he isn't in our top 3. We either develop King or Lewis outside or (hopefully) bring in some help. At #23 we may be in position for a big, athletic playmaking WR. Alshon Jeffery must be thoroughly investigated (he may or may not have character issues we don't want).

4+5 WRs have to play specials and you are not going to spend $$$ on a #6.

**A note: The team got crushed but perhaps no individual Giant feels better than Tavarres King right now. His deep catches vs. the Skins and Packers were clutch and what the O was missing. But he was behind Lewis and Harris on specials, so as the #6 didn't play. King has momentum heading into the offseason and a big opportunity. Odell can make the WR playing opposite him a very rich man. King has real talent and may be able to allow the Giants to spend resources on OL, TE and RB instead of WR.
Cruz  
djstat : 1/11/2017 4:20 pm : link
Cares more about Cruz. People here are so stuck in 2011 cannot see him for the selfish player he is
RE: Cruz  
Ron Johnson 30 : 1/11/2017 4:59 pm : link
In comment 13321820 djstat said:
Quote:
Cares more about Cruz. People here are so stuck in 2011 cannot see him for the selfish player he is


Perhaps the dumbest post on a dumb thread. Congrats
DJM  
blue42 : 1/11/2017 6:24 pm : link
I think some of Reggie's managers and teamates drank before he got to the Yankees. C'mon.
Nobody "sold their soul" for anything.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2017 6:25 pm : link
Stop reading this crap media.
Pat Leonard is about the worst thing to hit  
gidiefor : Mod : 1/11/2017 6:33 pm : link
the Giants beat -- pretty much ever
RE: Pat Leonard is about the worst thing to hit  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/11/2017 6:39 pm : link
In comment 13321988 gidiefor said:
Quote:
the Giants beat -- pretty much ever


This wasn't even Pat Leonard.

I'm not sure if being at the Daily News makes a sportswriter a moron or if that's a prerequisite for employment.
It was ebenezer samuel  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/11/2017 6:41 pm : link
Who also writes articles about comic books and video games.

I honestly don't know why we even have newspapers anymore.
RE: Cruz  
Giants2012 : 1/11/2017 6:41 pm : link
In comment 13321820 djstat said:
Quote:
Cares more about Cruz. People here are so stuck in 2011 cannot see him for the selfish player he is


Wow, that's a pretty crazy thought IMO.
What a effin crock of shit.  
section125 : 1/11/2017 6:47 pm : link
Cruz is supposed to be the WRs big daddy? What a stupid, moronic, crock of shit. Jackass.

Yeah let's blame the most stable player, outside of Eli, on the team for whatever asinine shit this knucklehead is spouting.

Stop it. Effin stop it. The trip (all 2.5 hrs of it) had nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with the game on Sunday. Holy crap I'd like to smack the living crap out of people who think a trip to Miami, on a day off, made Beckham drop a couple passes (and Shepard).

Grow up, Just grow up.
To the OP  
Torrag : 1/11/2017 9:36 pm : link
I heartily agree with just about the entire premise of your post. 2016 was a complete and utter failure for VC on every level. As a productive player on the field. As a locker room example on how to handle adversity and deal with the media. As a leader to a very young WR corps. Complete and total failure on his part in all three areas.

You're also correct that none of that changes what he did for the Giants in the past. Or how sad it is for us fans to witness such a sudden fall for VC. Injury is a brutal truth of life in the NFL Victor is done. he won't be back in blue next season...at any price.

Now we can all move on and simply reflect on his great years, his cinderella story and the impact he had bringing home a Lombardi Trophy.
RE: To the OP  
section125 : 1/11/2017 9:47 pm : link
In comment 13322169 Torrag said:
Quote:
I heartily agree with just about the entire premise of your post. 2016 was a complete and utter failure for VC on every level. As a productive player on the field. As a locker room example on how to handle adversity and deal with the media. As a leader to a very young WR corps. Complete and total failure on his part in all three areas.

You're also correct that none of that changes what he did for the Giants in the past. Or how sad it is for us fans to witness such a sudden fall for VC. Injury is a brutal truth of life in the NFL Victor is done. he won't be back in blue next season...at any price.

Now we can all move on and simply reflect on his great years, his cinderella story and the impact he had bringing home a Lombardi Trophy.


I don't remember ever saying this about any poster before, but you are a knucklehead. Complete knucklehead to blame Cruz for anything in the locker room is just ignorant nonsense.
I'll double down - who really gives a shit if they went to Miami.
Hey blame Eli, he is the heart and soul of the offense. Blame Eli. It is Eli's fault that the WRs went to Miami; Eli's fault why OBJ got crazy on Norman. What the hell is wrong with you?
to blame Cruz for anything in the locker room  
Torrag : 1/11/2017 9:54 pm : link
So Vc did the right thing when he went public to the media about not getting targets? That's good locker room behavior? That's how you go about it? T

Try be informed about what actually happens on the team you follow before running your mouth about other posters opinions. Thanks.
RE: to blame Cruz for anything in the locker room  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/11/2017 10:07 pm : link
In comment 13322199 Torrag said:
Quote:
So Vc did the right thing when he went public to the media about not getting targets? That's good locker room behavior? That's how you go about it? T

Try be informed about what actually happens on the team you follow before running your mouth about other posters opinions. Thanks.


Amani Toomer intimated there was a conspiracy to keep him from getting the ball at the end of his last season in NY. But no one brings that up now, even when he criticizes Shockey for being selfish. These guys are human beings... they're not perfect. That being said, don't blame them for someone else's decisions/behavior.

The problem isn't "leadership". The problem is they didn't play well enough in a big game, just like Eli Manning played like dogshit in his first playoff appearance. Let's stop making it about more than that.
I think this is loosely correct  
PatersonPlank : 1/11/2017 10:32 pm : link
IMO, the issue is when your leader is immature. Eli is a quiet leader, which leaves the door open for emotional leaders like OBJ. He casts a shadow over the offense. In the 1980's when LT had a similar role to Beckham (but on defense of course), they had Carson to be the leader and keep him in check. Eli doesn't have the outgoing and strong personality to keep OBJ in check.

I believe OBJ will grow into it, but this year it was an issue.
the only problem any Giant fan  
GentleGiant : 1/12/2017 2:25 pm : link
has with OBJ comes down to the fact that he IS the face and team leader of the Giants on and of the field. If the Giants had a Justin Tuck type leader or even a Brandon Jacobs on the team OBJ wouldn't be able to get away with 1/10th of the crap he gets away with.
I always love me these threads regarding leadership within  
RC02XX : 1/12/2017 2:30 pm : link
the Giants organization. I haven't read through the entire thread, but I'm sure Eli and his lack of leadership qualities will surface soon (if it hasn't already). I remember getting into a long running discussion about his lack of leadership qualities because he wasn't a rah rah guy as many posters seem to equate being demonstrative as being a leader.
RE: the only problem any Giant fan  
RC02XX : 1/12/2017 2:32 pm : link
In comment 13322970 GentleGiant said:
Quote:
has with OBJ comes down to the fact that he IS the face and team leader of the Giants on and of the field. If the Giants had a Justin Tuck type leader or even a Brandon Jacobs on the team OBJ wouldn't be able to get away with 1/10th of the crap he gets away with.


What you consider leadership is actually personality. They are not the same. There were long stretches where Tuck didn't act like a leader of this team and same goes for Jacobs. They were strong personalities, for sure...but let's stop with this false revisionist history about them being two great consistent leaders.
Cruz was rehabbing for Odells first two seasons  
steve in ky : 1/12/2017 2:40 pm : link
Hard to mentor or lead a guy when for the most part you aren't active and with the team.

In that time Odell established himself as the best offensive talent on the team and arguably the best WR in the game. So IMO it isn't reasonable to place blame on Cruz for Odell's lack of maturity in year three of his career.

It's a nice rant but at this point Odell and not Cruz is the "man" in the WR corp and responsible for himself. Furthermore how do you even know that Cruz's presence didn't help prevent a Carolina like meltdown this season at some point?
So Tuck is getting the Strahan revisionist treatment now  
Greg from LI : 1/12/2017 2:42 pm : link
Tuck was a moody guy, so much so that Coughlin actually called him out publicly about it. He certainly had his leadership moments, but he also could be brooding and quiet.
RE: the only problem any Giant fan  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/12/2017 3:00 pm : link
In comment 13322970 GentleGiant said:
Quote:
has with OBJ comes down to the fact that he IS the face and team leader of the Giants on and of the field. If the Giants had a Justin Tuck type leader or even a Brandon Jacobs on the team OBJ wouldn't be able to get away with 1/10th of the crap he gets away with.


Ummm... weren't those dudes on the team when Plaxico Burress was showing up late for practices, missing practices, and eventually shooting himself in the leg? Those things seem a helluva lot more significant to me than a hole in the wall or a boat ride on a day off.

Don't let the media convince you that Odell's "crap" is more important than it really is.
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