Excellent and very moving WSJ piece about the children who suffer because of the addictions of their parents, and the very common scenario of grandparents being required to spend their retirement years filling the parental void. Sad stuff.
Link - (
New Window )
This book is part memoir, part sociological overview, and part political science as it ties together one young man's plight as the son of an addicted mother, his analysis of his family and neighbors in Appalachia, and tangentially an explanation of how that strata's ideas about "politics" impacts our elections.
This is an unusual and important book, and for me it was eye-opening.
NY Times Review - ( New Window )
how in the world do you do that?
Can't even put into words how helpless, sad, etc the situation these kids are and how many of the parents were once kids in the same situation. It's an endless cycle yet the cycle appears to be growing rapidly. So many stories and, you can't get arms around it.
It's true, again from what I've read that many users graduate from opiods to heroin but it's illegal opioid use that may have started with someone else's prescription or pills, but not the model the media likes to use mentioned above.
How do you stop it? I don't believe it's all pill mills or doctors and the pharmaceutical companies in cahoots to push product. It seems more to me like opiods have just replaced cocaine or LSD or whatever prior drug of choice was for past generations.
It's an epidemic, but I'm not sure how you stop it.
Legalize weed?
And I should say I couldn't read past two lines of the story linked here it said I need to subscribe to WSJ, so I made some assumptions.
This book is part memoir, part sociological overview, and part political science as it ties together one young man's plight as the son of an addicted mother, his analysis of his family and neighbors in Appalachia, and tangentially an explanation of how that strata's ideas about "politics" impacts our elections.
This is an unusual and important book, and for me it was eye-opening. NY Times Review - ( New Window )
+1
Do you mean the "war on drugs"? didn't that become sort of a punchline?
I've heard it referred to as an unmitigated disaster and I admit not sure if it was the $$$ spent that was largely ineffective or just the lack of success.
I wasn't being facetious, though not necessary advocating it, but I have heard some opinions legalizing weed or other drugs would lessen the reliance on opioids. Not sure why other than something else being available legally, and that's state not federal, but with weed IMO it can't hurt to try.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wilkes-barre-faces-heroin-scourge-turning-it-most-unhappy-place-n699541 - ( New Window )
they are in fact already taking measures to stop the proliferation of legally prescribed opioids. Doctors are far more heavily scrutinized now for every single prescription. I believe it's now protocol to not use opioids for long-term pain management issues. some people used to simply have refillable percocet prescriptions (I was one of them). that ended.
Another example is simply prescribing less as part of medical protocol.
Anecdotally, I had shoulder surgery 5 years go on my left shoulder, I was prescribed 60 percocets. I needed maybe 10 - 20 for the pain. I took them all.
this past September I had the same surgery on my other shoulder but the damage was worse and the prescription was for 20 pills.
I think protocols are changing and scrutiny is higher.
Not sure what else is happening, but those are two things I notice.
drug use among poor urban blacks = thugs who should be in jail
drug use among poor urban blacks = thugs who should be in jail
You seeing this as a crisis that only affects one of those segments is the funny part. If you think striking ignorance is amusing.
drug use among poor urban blacks = thugs who should be in jail
Interesting to see your viewpoint.
I have a lot of empathy for addicts. That's true regardless of their drug of choice, whether it be opioids, crack cocaine, acid, molly, alcohol, tobacco, or gambling.
I find it interesting how we treat those who make money off these addicts differently. I've not really looked at it through the lens of race as you apparently do.
Which race should we blame for each of the different vices out there? How can we make sure we treat them all the same, so as to avoid being racist?
Just wondering.
But the one question it really boils down to is this: are the communities most impacted by the targeting of crack/cocaine better off for the loss of most of their criminal strata, by the reduction (by no means elimination) in the availability of crack and cocaine, the reduction in the number of babies born addicted to crack-cocaine, etc etc, or are they worse off for the removal of thousands of fathers, sons, brothers (and mothers) etc from the scene, the increase in the police presence and the intrusiveness of their tactics, etc etc.
It's not an easy question. There are assumptions in there on both sides that people will attack and there are clearly other issues at work in the war on drugs, but in debating whether a comparable response would be appropriate for heroin and opiates that's really the question that's at issue. The problem is at least that big. In Vermont an estimated 3+% of the babies born over the last five years have been born drug-addicted, and in some hospitals in WV the number is more than twice as high. Deaths from overdoses are mushrooming, it is that bad.
Of course that's not to say that there aren't other options besides incarcerating everyone who has ever sold heroin, we can and should learn from the shortcomings of the last such drug epidemic. But it is to say that a strategy based largely on policing and prosecution really has to answer that question.
I don't know what the impact of a drug addicted baby is, but I cannot imagine it's good.
Now VT or WV probably are not on this scale, but my kids were born at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston. They birth (and as late as 2012 at least) 9,000 babies a year.
270 babies a year or 1,350 over the 5 year period are drug addicted (if MA had those same rates) and parts of MA are not far behind WV in terms of opioid related addiction.
Link - ( New Window )
drug use among poor urban blacks = thugs who should be in jail
I think the race issue is not the main issue. But we can have both conversations as a society. It is hard to ignore the fact that the white drug epidemic gets phrased in terms of "the children of the opioid crisis" while the black drug epidemic had the derisive "crack babies". How much of that is race and how much of that is a kinder, gentler society I dont know. Part and parcel of how you think about society. For example, I dont think most Americans are racist, but I think race plays a role in the way we think about eachother, e.g. I think there is a lot of white resentment for welfare programs that are viewed as "for" minorities who live in big cities and not them.
Bigger picture, I dont have a ton to add. My life is blessed to be untouched by this crisis (TBK). I did read some interesting stuff re why places that suffered from crack are less hit by this. Some theories include better responses from communities/families that have been thru addiction, and also some data that physicians perscribe pain killers to blacks at lower levels than whites, reducing the pain-to-addiction path. Although pj makes a good point that the pure pain-to-addiction path is overhyped.
drug use among poor urban blacks = thugs who should be in jail
Who is seeing it this way? IMO, there needs to be an effective marketing campaign. It should be akin to the campaign that stopped many people from smoking cigarettes. Why did that work? Why can't it work with these drugs?
Thanks
From other sources, I did not realize fentanyl is disguised as other drugs.
From what I understand, the Feds may also have gone to some of the more prodigious script writers (mostly in Florida) and told them that maybe it was time to retire or face scrutiny.
Not even a little bit true.
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That allowed patients to score their Drs. on pain management. So the DRs. made sure their patients weren't in pain. Over proscribed opioids. Then the govt cut back opioids Rxs and the addicted went to heroin. Great work all around.
Not even a little bit true.
It's true. And that's straight from Drs. and pharmacists who saw it all happen.
there is a max amount of pills that can be prescribed via protocol per injury/incident and if more are needed/requested a revisit and re-evaluation by the doctor is required.
he was pretty candid with me about it, protocol has changed, for frequent pain management, narcotics are not protocol any longer. surgery or root cause treatment are what is being recommended.
fix the problem don't treat the symptoms.
Not saying every doctor (even in MA) follows this, but he was clear about the changes given the current state and there are repercussions.
there is a max amount of pills that can be prescribed via protocol per injury/incident and if more are needed/requested a revisit and re-evaluation by the doctor is required.
he was pretty candid with me about it, protocol has changed, for frequent pain management, narcotics are not protocol any longer. surgery or root cause treatment are what is being recommended.
fix the problem don't treat the symptoms.
Not saying every doctor (even in MA) follows this, but he was clear about the changes given the current state and there are repercussions.
Yup. That's the Feds trying to reign in the problem they created. Trouble is it put people who really need opioids in a bind because the pharmacies and Drs. reach their limit and those people can't get the drugs they legitimately need.
Just the fact Deej. Just the facts.
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feel the need to blame the government for everything
Just the fact Deej. Just the facts.
Well, taking your statement at face value, at most it is the opinion of Drs and pharmacists. Who may lack perspective. It's fairly common for people who do a not great thing to blame circumstances rather than themselves. I do it, you do it, we all do it.
Let me ask this: what happens if a doctors doesnt give Percocet to an addict, and the addict gives the doctor poor marks? Does the doctor lose his license? Or does he maybe make less money. Does the doctor get to rebut? I.e. tell the scorer why he had a different course of treatment.
So not just the facts. Mostly opinion.
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In comment 13321435 Deej said:
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feel the need to blame the government for everything
Just the fact Deej. Just the facts.
Well, taking your statement at face value, at most it is the opinion of Drs and pharmacists. Who may lack perspective. It's fairly common for people who do a not great thing to blame circumstances rather than themselves. I do it, you do it, we all do it.
Let me ask this: what happens if a doctors doesnt give Percocet to an addict, and the addict gives the doctor poor marks? Does the doctor lose his license? Or does he maybe make less money. Does the doctor get to rebut? I.e. tell the scorer why he had a different course of treatment.
So not just the facts. Mostly opinion.
" Or does he maybe make less money." Yup.
The Drs. could then get in trouble with the regulators which could effect their compensation and waste a huge amount of their time being called on the carpet. So, you nailed it Deej. See, no opinions necessary when you have the facts.
I don't have any answers. Like others, I am blessed not to have this in my life. I have friends who I sometimes worry about, mixing prescription medications and alcohol. But I can see the devastation. I know I get a bad rap because I come down hard on drug use. I take it seriously, alcohol too. Yes, I drink wine, and sometimes too much. Some people just can't handle this stuff. We also have the addition of people's lives seeming to be miserable, no future, economic stagnation, lack of social lives, no community support. It's hard when you fall through the cracks and have no way to get back up.
Second, what is known as 'black-tar' heroin from Mexico begins to be distributed using a pizza delivery model. A number of different 'cells' crop up that are all from the same place in Mexico - Nayarit. They avoid big cities b/c there is competition and instead focus on smaller cities. People addicted to opioids turn to black tar heroin b/c it is much cheaper and it is convenient. Literally it is distributed to people much as pizza would be, by calling a number and the driver comes to you.
I'd highly recommend the book "Dreamland" (see link) to learn about what happened.
Third, economies in middle America are dying and
Dreamland - ( New Window )
Also, last year more people died from opioids than car crashes.
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but my doctor in MA told me every single narcotic prescription he writes gets scrutinized now.
there is a max amount of pills that can be prescribed via protocol per injury/incident and if more are needed/requested a revisit and re-evaluation by the doctor is required.
he was pretty candid with me about it, protocol has changed, for frequent pain management, narcotics are not protocol any longer. surgery or root cause treatment are what is being recommended.
fix the problem don't treat the symptoms.
Not saying every doctor (even in MA) follows this, but he was clear about the changes given the current state and there are repercussions.
Yup. That's the Feds trying to reign in the problem they created. Trouble is it put people who really need opioids in a bind because the pharmacies and Drs. reach their limit and those people can't get the drugs they legitimately need.
Again though, I'll dig up one of the articles, the # of heroin addicts who got there by way of legit narcotic pain reliever prescription, became addicted and then could no longer get prescriptions is minuscule - not the narrative that plays well in many of the stories or articles.
Here is an excerpt from a pbs.org article.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 13321391 BillT said:
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That allowed patients to score their Drs. on pain management. So the DRs. made sure their patients weren't in pain. Over proscribed opioids. Then the govt cut back opioids Rxs and the addicted went to heroin. Great work all around.
Not even a little bit true.
It's true. And that's straight from Drs. and pharmacists who saw it all happen.
And why do you accept anecdotal evidence as incontrovertible fact?
You need to take a close look at the demographics of the people who are prescribed pain medication. You'll find that they are, in large part, not the people who are using heroin/fentanyl.
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In comment 13321414 BMac said:
And why do you accept anecdotal evidence as incontrovertible fact?
It isn't anecdotal evidence. It's first hand information from experienced medial professionals who know the profession, this problem, and the role the Feds played in it.
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In comment 13321426 BillT said:
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In comment 13321414 BMac said:
And why do you accept anecdotal evidence as incontrovertible fact?
It isn't anecdotal evidence. It's first hand information from experienced medial professionals who know the profession, this problem, and the role the Feds played in it.
No, it is 2nd hand anecdotal evidence
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In comment 13321497 BMac said:
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In comment 13321426 BillT said:
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In comment 13321414 BMac said:
And why do you accept anecdotal evidence as incontrovertible fact?
It isn't anecdotal evidence. It's first hand information from experienced medial professionals who know the profession, this problem, and the role the Feds played in it.
No, it is 2nd hand anecdotal evidence
Believe what you like Deej.
what you describe sounds like it would have to be far more widespread than that.
Meanwhile, cracking down on “pill mills” could address some of the problem but would hardly suffice, said Jonathan Chen, an instructor at the Stanford University School of Medicine who has researched painkiller abuse but is not associated with the review article. The top 10 percent of doctors prescribe about 57 percent of all painkillers, according to a study he co-authored that came out last December
what you describe sounds like it would have to be far more widespread than that.
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The CDC is currently finalizing new guidelines for doctors to help them better prescribe medication for pain, Compton said.
Meanwhile, cracking down on “pill mills” could address some of the problem but would hardly suffice, said Jonathan Chen, an instructor at the Stanford University School of Medicine who has researched painkiller abuse but is not associated with the review article. The top 10 percent of doctors prescribe about 57 percent of all painkillers, according to a study he co-authored that came out last December
It affected all Drs. But certainly there were Dr's who took advantage of it on a large scale. Those aren't mutually exclusive facts. When "pain management" became a reviewable part of a Dr.'s practice it allowed for abuse of those rules.
Still seems a small percent of doctors were freely handing out pain killer prescriptions like they were tic tacs (the pill mills).
I took one of the Valium the morning after surgery and was a complete space cadet. After that I threw out the rest of the pills.
I could not believe the number of people that approached me afterwards chastising me for not giving them the pills instead. My father-in-law is as straight laced as anyone I've ever known, and he told me he takes a Percocet a night to get to sleep. I couldn't believe it.
Still seems a small percent of doctors were freely handing out pain killer prescriptions like they were tic tacs (the pill mills).
But you didn't need to "hand out pain killer prescriptions like they were tic tacs" to contribute to the problem. Proscribing marginally more would be a big increase across all of America. And when you stopped proscribing those that became addicted or you thought didn't need more, they had the pill factories to go get more.
I took one of the Valium the morning after surgery and was a complete space cadet. After that I threw out the rest of the pills.
I could not believe the number of people that approached me afterwards chastising me for not giving them the pills instead. My father-in-law is as straight laced as anyone I've ever known, and he told me he takes a Percocet a night to get to sleep. I couldn't believe it.
And the same with me. I hurt my ribs. Hurt like a mother. Walk-in place gave me 30 Percocets. Probably justified but I never took one and tossed them.
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I don't disagree, but the fact it doesn't appear 90% of doctors abused it seems to not support most doctors worried about it.
Still seems a small percent of doctors were freely handing out pain killer prescriptions like they were tic tacs (the pill mills).
But you didn't need to "hand out pain killer prescriptions like they were tic tacs" to contribute to the problem. Proscribing marginally more would be a big increase across all of America. And when you stopped proscribing those that became addicted or you thought didn't need more, they had the pill factories to go get more.
I shared my anecdotal experience how they've already adjusted protocols on amounts of pills prescribed for the exact same procedure.
problem is two-fold, help the addicted but prevention of exacerbation seems to be underway. based on my experience with the legally obtained medically prescribed pain killers at least (which again, represents a very small percentage of the problem, but it's always the one in the commercials)
I believe there have been children suffering from addict parents throughout history. Likely the worst culprit has been alcohol.
(Forgive- I don't subscribe to the WSJ.)
Crack never killed at the rate that heroin and fentanyl are doing right now. It devastated communities, without question, but it wasn't as lethal.
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Crack was mostly inner city minorities. These are white folks, so some are inclined to make more of it, but its basically the same scourge....
Crack never killed at the rate that heroin and fentanyl are doing right now. It devastated communities, without question, but it wasn't as lethal.
Is that true? Was crack less deadly than opioid? Or was it just less widespread because it was generally more of an urban/black issue?
How do you even do a comparative measure given the legal use of pain killers, even to addictive levels?
I think the reflexive "why do we care more about white people addiction than black people addiction" is not helpful, since people are dying and in pain. But I think pretending like there isnt a racial undertone to the differential societal responses is missing part of the "story". The "story" is obviously secondary to getting people and families help.
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In comment 13321749 WideRight said:
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Crack was mostly inner city minorities. These are white folks, so some are inclined to make more of it, but its basically the same scourge....
Crack never killed at the rate that heroin and fentanyl are doing right now. It devastated communities, without question, but it wasn't as lethal.
Is that true? Was crack less deadly than opioid? Or was it just less widespread because it was generally more of an urban/black issue?
How do you even do a comparative measure given the legal use of pain killers, even to addictive levels?
I think the reflexive "why do we care more about white people addiction than black people addiction" is not helpful, since people are dying and in pain. But I think pretending like there isnt a racial undertone to the differential societal responses is missing part of the "story". The "story" is obviously secondary to getting people and families help.
Although it's possibly due to safer automobiles, the OD deaths back in the days of the crack epidemic never exceeded auto related deaths.
By percentages opiods is heavily slanted to white victims, but in total more blacks OD from opioids than from crack (and cocaine combined).
if crack ever reached these same levels of epidemic regardless of race I believe it would get the same attention.
regardless of people's perceived biases, at least in my opinion. AIDS I think may be a good example, AIDS disproportionately hit the gay and black communities, black especially, and it received a lot of attention.
the linked site doesn't show demographics of each overdose death, but I found that elsewhere.
Link - ( New Window )
It's pretty hard to say with a straight face that the problems plaguing black communities receive either the attention or the quality of attention (i.e. sympathy) than do the problems facing the middle american white man.
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In comment 13321797 Dunedin81 said:
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In comment 13321749 WideRight said:
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Crack was mostly inner city minorities. These are white folks, so some are inclined to make more of it, but its basically the same scourge....
Crack never killed at the rate that heroin and fentanyl are doing right now. It devastated communities, without question, but it wasn't as lethal.
Is that true? Was crack less deadly than opioid? Or was it just less widespread because it was generally more of an urban/black issue?
How do you even do a comparative measure given the legal use of pain killers, even to addictive levels?
I think the reflexive "why do we care more about white people addiction than black people addiction" is not helpful, since people are dying and in pain. But I think pretending like there isnt a racial undertone to the differential societal responses is missing part of the "story". The "story" is obviously secondary to getting people and families help.
Although it's possibly due to safer automobiles, the OD deaths back in the days of the crack epidemic never exceeded auto related deaths.
We need to make deaths secondary to the long-term damage done to communities/groups. Sure, deaths are tragic, but the wider consequences are far more poignant and the effects far more profound.
It's pretty hard to say with a straight face that the problems plaguing black communities receive either the attention or the quality of attention (i.e. sympathy) than do the problems facing the middle american white man.
I've never said that, I simply said the opioid epidemic isn't getting the attention that it's getting because it's a white person problem.
I believe there have been children suffering from addict parents throughout history. Likely the worst culprit has been alcohol.
(Forgive- I don't subscribe to the WSJ.)
It's much more widespread. And didn't start with prescribed medicines.
Right. Started by the CIA.
It's damn near a daily occurance down here.
"I want to control drugs as a business to keep it respectable. I don't want it near big cities, I don't want out sold to African Americans. That's an infamnia. In my city we'd would keep the traffic to the white people, the rednecks. They're animals anyway so let the lose their souls"
Bullshit. Somehow I managed to take Vicodin and Oxycodone in the past when I've had extremely painful injuries without becoming addicted to them. In fact, the vast majority of people who take them do not become addicts.
I also tossed them to the screams and horrors of people I mentioned it to afterward. I shouldn't have received more than a handful (I'd say less than 2-3 days supply), and could likely have been prescribed something a lot less powerful.
It seems like whether accidental or intentional, the system is inadvertently creating/encouraging addiction where it might not have existed before.
There are certainly arguments in favor of legalization or at least decriminalization, but what's the indication that there will be some sort of massive bite taken out of opioid/opiate use? Vermont has one of the worst heroin problems in the country and marijuana is almost ubiquitous in the state. If you've got data to the contrary I'm certainly willing to be convinced, but to me the arguments in favor of breaking down the barriers to marijuana use are more or less independent of the issues raised by this crisis.
I also tossed them to the screams and horrors of people I mentioned it to afterward. I shouldn't have received more than a handful (I'd say less than 2-3 days supply), and could likely have been prescribed something a lot less powerful.
It seems like whether accidental or intentional, the system is inadvertently creating/encouraging addiction where it might not have existed before.
+1 -- appropriate use has gotten lost in the entire discussion. Doctors were giving them out like candy.
The other piece I forgot to mention as a cause for the explosion in opioid use is when pain became the 'fifth vital sign'. AMA finally dropped it as a vital sign:
Link - ( New Window )
I'm exaggerating -- I should have said that doctors are prescribing far more than needed b/c of pressure by patients as well as the idea that pain was a fifth vital sign. Prescribing of opioids increased dramatically after Oxycontin hit the market. And some doctors were bad actors and saw it as a money making opportunity.
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Where the major problem wasn't the drug as much as the violence. 2000 murders a year in Nyc at the peak, hence the heavy police response. The opioid scourge is far more widespread, fast-paced smaller communities where police are incapable of a dressing the problem. The drugs also kill more than craic ever did. In the afrementioned book Dream Land (I second the recommendation) the author documents how the Mexican drug business model is to intentionally target small cities without established drug gangs, only sell to whites (Mexicans aren't fond of African Americans apparently) and avoid violence. The book also discusses the flawed medical and corrupt pharmaceutical cultures.
"I want to control drugs as a business to keep it respectable. I don't want it near big cities, I don't want out sold to African Americans. That's an infamnia. In my city we'd would keep the traffic to the white people, the rednecks. They're animals anyway so let the lose their souls"
Good one Ron! Its crazy but these gusy were brilliant in their business model: They assume white communities = less violence and a more stable business. They fight competitors with price wars, not gun fights. They rotate in dealers from mexico for six months. Too savvy for these second or third tier city police departments.
Drug use and addiction are as buford noted a symptom of society. As the middle class gets hollowed out more and more the problem will increase. It can be treated as a health problem and a financial issue in terms of wealth inequality. Instead, we create a financial issue by spending billions in a silly war and create a crime problem from thin air.
Of course heroin users have used opoids. That's not proof that opoids are bad or even that drugs are bad. There's a natural (one might even say god given) reason that certain natural substances including cannibis, kratom, coca and opium have a calming and euphoric effect on our body - like other things, we take a good and natural thing and a) magnify its effects (eg heroin vs opium), b) seek to profit from it and c) those in power seek to control it.
I've had friends addicted to cocaine. I know lots of opioid users, and plenty of people who use kratom and cannibis. Nothing is close to being as destructive at an overall societal level than the most dangerous drug of all (according to most studies): alcohol.
When you make things illegal that people want to do (like recreational drugs) and have a legal but controlled option (opioids) of course people will flock to them.
And it's a racket. My wife has to visit a doctor every month for a refill of vicodin because under new rules they can't be refilled like normal drugs and can only be prescribed in small quantifies. Think doctors don't want to see a useless visit (with associated fee) each month?
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In comment 13322101 weeg in the bronx said:
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Where the major problem wasn't the drug as much as the violence. 2000 murders a year in Nyc at the peak, hence the heavy police response. The opioid scourge is far more widespread, fast-paced smaller communities where police are incapable of a dressing the problem. The drugs also kill more than craic ever did. In the afrementioned book Dream Land (I second the recommendation) the author documents how the Mexican drug business model is to intentionally target small cities without established drug gangs, only sell to whites (Mexicans aren't fond of African Americans apparently) and avoid violence. The book also discusses the flawed medical and corrupt pharmaceutical cultures.
"I want to control drugs as a business to keep it respectable. I don't want it near big cities, I don't want out sold to African Americans. That's an infamnia. In my city we'd would keep the traffic to the white people, the rednecks. They're animals anyway so let the lose their souls"
Good one Ron! Its crazy but these gusy were brilliant in their business model: They assume white communities = less violence and a more stable business. They fight competitors with price wars, not gun fights. They rotate in dealers from mexico for six months. Too savvy for these second or third tier city police departments.
They also kept low volumes of the drugs, and they would drive around with balloons of the drugs in their mouth. If pulled over they'd swallow the balloons. And they didn't really have one 'head' -- it was a bunch of cells supplying drugs.
They'd also get help from addicts to set up in new towns where they didn't know anyone.
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start there. That shit does no one any good.
Bullshit. Somehow I managed to take Vicodin and Oxycodone in the past when I've had extremely painful injuries without becoming addicted to them. In fact, the vast majority of people who take them do not become addicts.
Second that. I was placed on morphine for 5 years for chronic pain. I decided to stop on my own because of the overall negative effects. Was I addicted at that point...certainly. But by slowly reducing dosages taken, it really wasn't all that difficult to do.
I'm glad I did this for a number of reasons, but particularly because the current climate makes one feel like a criminal if prescribed opiates of any kind for pain relief.
Drug use and addiction are as buford noted a symptom of society. As the middle class gets hollowed out more and more the problem will increase. It can be treated as a health problem and a financial issue in terms of wealth inequality. Instead, we create a financial issue by spending billions in a silly war and create a crime problem from thin air.
Of course heroin users have used opoids. That's not proof that opoids are bad or even that drugs are bad. There's a natural (one might even say god given) reason that certain natural substances including cannibis, kratom, coca and opium have a calming and euphoric effect on our body - like other things, we take a good and natural thing and a) magnify its effects (eg heroin vs opium), b) seek to profit from it and c) those in power seek to control it.
I've had friends addicted to cocaine. I know lots of opioid users, and plenty of people who use kratom and cannibis. Nothing is close to being as destructive at an overall societal level than the most dangerous drug of all (according to most studies): alcohol.
When you make things illegal that people want to do (like recreational drugs) and have a legal but controlled option (opioids) of course people will flock to them.
And it's a racket. My wife has to visit a doctor every month for a refill of vicodin because under new rules they can't be refilled like normal drugs and can only be prescribed in small quantifies. Think doctors don't want to see a useless visit (with associated fee) each month?
Opioids are addictive, tolerance builds up, and overdose deaths are on the rise. These drugs need to be used carefully and cautiously. It's also in a completely different league than marijuana. Dreamland features a chapter about how the molecule itself is different than every other drug is because it cannot be reduced to water soluble glucose.
But don't take my word for it on the addictive issue, from the attached article:
"Morphine and other opiates are addictive and have been drugs of abuse for thousands of years."
Link - ( New Window )
They also kept low volumes of the drugs, and they would drive around with balloons of the drugs in their mouth. If pulled over they'd swallow the balloons. And they didn't really have one 'head' -- it was a bunch of cells supplying drugs.
They'd also get help from addicts to set up in new towns where they didn't know anyone.
Another strategy they use is to have their stash house in one state and exclusively deal in another, while only carrying small amounts at a time. This way if they're pulled over and caught with their drugs on them, their stash house stays safe. They simply provide as a home address a clean house near where they deal. Cops don't know to check the out of state house, and even the feds (DEA) often have trouble getting the jurisdiction to raid the stash house (which in addition to being out of state is often kept in another person's name).
My best friend growing up runs a DEA task force - he's got some amazing stories to tell. He lives most of the time in Guatemala and has jurisdiction to fly almost anywhere with his team to bust the cartel.
I'm not opposed to legalization in certain locations, but I'm not ready to say it should be legal anywhere. Here's my concern.
Basically, MJ is a mind-altering drug. Under its influence we don't want certain professions to operate (pilot, surgeon, etc.). It may not have a negative influence on many, many, people and even industries. Heck, it may even be beneficial to some industries (screenwriter?).
My concern is that increasing availability will increase the total number of users, which in turn will lead to more Americans pursuing certain occupations and abandoning others.
In our global economy I don't think we win if the % of smokers goes over a certain number, and I don't know what that number is. I'm also not prepared to rush into finding out what it is.
To me the nice compromise is to let certain jurisdictions operate with recreational or medical marijuana. This way you are free to move and partake, as my niece just did.
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This is a problem the Feds largely created. It's all about the money - the DEA is farce as prohibition doesn't work and never has, but when you're the one benefitting from prohibition you get brainwashed and follow the money yourselves. I have a friend who runs a private foundation affiliated with the DEA who, on the one hand, is passionate about the need to educate kids and on the other hand admits - after decades fighting a war on its own people - that our approach is a farce.
Drug use and addiction are as buford noted a symptom of society. As the middle class gets hollowed out more and more the problem will increase. It can be treated as a health problem and a financial issue in terms of wealth inequality. Instead, we create a financial issue by spending billions in a silly war and create a crime problem from thin air.
Of course heroin users have used opoids. That's not proof that opoids are bad or even that drugs are bad. There's a natural (one might even say god given) reason that certain natural substances including cannibis, kratom, coca and opium have a calming and euphoric effect on our body - like other things, we take a good and natural thing and a) magnify its effects (eg heroin vs opium), b) seek to profit from it and c) those in power seek to control it.
I've had friends addicted to cocaine. I know lots of opioid users, and plenty of people who use kratom and cannibis. Nothing is close to being as destructive at an overall societal level than the most dangerous drug of all (according to most studies): alcohol.
When you make things illegal that people want to do (like recreational drugs) and have a legal but controlled option (opioids) of course people will flock to them.
And it's a racket. My wife has to visit a doctor every month for a refill of vicodin because under new rules they can't be refilled like normal drugs and can only be prescribed in small quantifies. Think doctors don't want to see a useless visit (with associated fee) each month?
Opioids are addictive, tolerance builds up, and overdose deaths are on the rise. These drugs need to be used carefully and cautiously. It's also in a completely different league than marijuana. Dreamland features a chapter about how the molecule itself is different than every other drug is because it cannot be reduced to water soluble glucose.
But don't take my word for it on the addictive issue, from the attached article:
"Morphine and other opiates are addictive and have been drugs of abuse for thousands of years." Link - ( New Window )
No argument at all.
Because something is addictive it doesn't mean it should be illegal. Should it be used carefully? Sure.
But as an example, many people have turned to Kratom. because of the difficulty in getting opioids now and because frankly it's more benign. There's limited evidence of addictive potential, virtually no evidence of harm to speak of. But the DEA figured out people were using it, and tried to classify it as schedule 1 a few months ago. Why? All about the money and control.
Thankfully they got stopped in their tracks because hundreds of thousands petitioned to white house to intervene.
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to legalize marijuana that it might make sense to do so even if reduction of opioid use as a result is a longshot.
I'm not opposed to legalization in certain locations, but I'm not ready to say it should be legal anywhere. Here's my concern.
Basically, MJ is a mind-altering drug. Under its influence we don't want certain professions to operate (pilot, surgeon, etc.). It may not have a negative influence on many, many, people and even industries. Heck, it may even be beneficial to some industries (screenwriter?).
My concern is that increasing availability will increase the total number of users, which in turn will lead to more Americans pursuing certain occupations and abandoning others.
In our global economy I don't think we win if the % of smokers goes over a certain number, and I don't know what that number is. I'm also not prepared to rush into finding out what it is.
To me the nice compromise is to let certain jurisdictions operate with recreational or medical marijuana. This way you are free to move and partake, as my niece just did.
You aren't increasing availability to something as readily available as Cannabis. Also, no one who really wants to be a pilot or a doctor is going to not become one because they would prefer to smoke, nor should them smoking when they aren't working be any kind of issue.
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And normalize medical uses if it. We have an amazing medicianal opportunity in front of us, and one of the by products of it will be a huge kick in the gut to the opiate industry, both legal and illegal.
There are certainly arguments in favor of legalization or at least decriminalization, but what's the indication that there will be some sort of massive bite taken out of opioid/opiate use? Vermont has one of the worst heroin problems in the country and marijuana is almost ubiquitous in the state. If you've got data to the contrary I'm certainly willing to be convinced, but to me the arguments in favor of breaking down the barriers to marijuana use are more or less independent of the issues raised by this crisis.
There are studies that show states with medicinal Cannabis have lower opiate fatality rates. I've attached one.
Also, there are many reasons why we haven't seen even close to the maximum efficacy of Cannabis as a medicine, or in this case pain killer. Most importantly, since its schedule 1, we are unable to study it and create the most efficient pain killing combination. Cannabis is a VERY complicated plant, there are literally hundreds of different chemicals(cannabanoids, terpenes and flavonoids) that create an entourage effect. If we can't study it, it's impossible to create the most efficient version of it for pain killing.
Another issue is most doctors still prefer to prescribe Opiates to Cannabis, even though Cannabis doesn't come with all the dangers Opiates do. There's a few reasons for that, including fear of he federal government and lack of knowledge about its benefits.
I encourage anyone interested to read Dr Sunjay Gupta writings or his shows on Cannabis. He was once a front line anti cannabis guy, and has now become one of its most prominent and vocal proponents.
Opiate OD And Cannabis - ( New Window )
Quote:My concern is that increasing availability will increase the total number of users.
Anywhere that drugs (yes, all drugs, including heroin, cocaine, etc) have been legalized have, without fail, experienced falling addiction/use rates with the attendant reduction in crime and disease. See Portugal, Great Britain, Switzerland, specific locations in Canada.
You aren't increasing availability to something as readily available as Cannabis. Also, no one who really wants to be a pilot or a doctor is going to not become one because they would prefer to smoke, nor should them smoking when they aren't working be any kind of issue.
Really?
What if I changed this to the following: "No one who really wants to be a NFL Pro Bowl Safety is going to not become one because they would prefer to smoke..."
I beg to differ. Certain careers require an extreme amount of discipline, focus and sacrifice for a long period of time, sacrifices that have to begin in your adolescence, and while there is no really good research about the long-term effects of smoking MJ on adolescent discipline, focus and sacrifice, there's a TON of anecdotal evidence about it.
I teach in an alternative HS, and I see a lot of talented kids who come in as 8th graders with big dreams and visions. Some of them have more than enough talent and they all have enough opportunity to make something great for themselves. For many of them, MJ is a stumbling block. Not just because it's illegal, although that is an issue. It just changes their approach to life in a way that's a lot more mellow and relaxed than what is required to get into the ultra-competitive fields they find interesting pre-MJ. I don't know for sure that expanding access to legal MJ would increase the number who partake, and admitted to that earlier. I'm only worried that it might, and can't see a good reason to take that risk.
Anywhere that drugs (yes, all drugs, including heroin, cocaine, etc) have been legalized have, without fail, experienced falling addiction/use rates with the attendant reduction in crime and disease. See Portugal, Great Britain, Switzerland, specific locations in Canada.
My biggest concern isn't related to addiction, use, crime or disease. My biggest concern is with adolescent experimentation and the impact that will have on a society's ability to compete long-term.
I perhaps could have been a little clearer about that earlier.
Go check out the computer or robotics lab after hours at your local jr./high school. See the stoners there? How about the math team?
There may be some, but not many. It seems to me that once a young person becomes engaged in smoking weed with any kind of regularity they basically lose the focus, drive, discipline, determination that it takes to excel in these fields.
I believe that adult users have different needs, and that includes college students. Once they've practiced the discipline needed for academic success it seems the effect of regular MJ smoking is minimal. But if that interest starts up too early, it's a real problem.
IMO time will tell whether it's having any kind of impact in places where it's been legalized. Why not wait and see how this plays out first? In 20 years a generation will have passed, and if there is little/no evidence of societal damage then I'll be okay with it.
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In comment 13322535 jcn56 said:
Quote:My concern is that increasing availability will increase the total number of users.
Anywhere that drugs (yes, all drugs, including heroin, cocaine, etc) have been legalized have, without fail, experienced falling addiction/use rates with the attendant reduction in crime and disease. See Portugal, Great Britain, Switzerland, specific locations in Canada.
This is very misleading.
Canada has NOT made "drugs (yes, all drugs)" legal. What they did was allow doctors to medically prescribe prescription grade heroin to already addicted users when traditional addiction treatment has not proven effective, under the care and supervision of a physician. They did not legalize heroin for recreational use. This policy only began 3 months ago, so no idea how you can there are falling addiction rates. Is there a different policy you are referring to? I'm not an expert, so that's definitely possible, please provide a link so I can educate myself.
Additionally, I'm not sure the program the UK implemented was very different from what Canada approved this past fall.
the UK has been doing this for decades and I think it's like I said, misleading to say addiction rates have fallen. They're still addicts, only getting it via prescription (in a controlled and monitored manner) vs the street and not any recreational user can get it from what I've read. The number of heroin addicts in the UK is dropping, especially among younger generations, but I don't think anyone attributes it to this program which has been around for decades.
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Anywhere that drugs (yes, all drugs, including heroin, cocaine, etc) have been legalized have, without fail, experienced falling addiction/use rates with the attendant reduction in crime and disease. See Portugal, Great Britain, Switzerland, specific locations in Canada.
My biggest concern isn't related to addiction, use, crime or disease. My biggest concern is with adolescent experimentation and the impact that will have on a society's ability to compete long-term.
I perhaps could have been a little clearer about that earlier.
No indication of that as any sort of verifiable factor.
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In comment 13322946 Dan in the Springs said:
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In comment 13322535 jcn56 said:
Quote:My concern is that increasing availability will increase the total number of users.
Anywhere that drugs (yes, all drugs, including heroin, cocaine, etc) have been legalized have, without fail, experienced falling addiction/use rates with the attendant reduction in crime and disease. See Portugal, Great Britain, Switzerland, specific locations in Canada.
This is very misleading.
Canada has NOT made "drugs (yes, all drugs)" legal. What they did was allow doctors to medically prescribe prescription grade heroin to already addicted users when traditional addiction treatment has not proven effective, under the care and supervision of a physician. They did not legalize heroin for recreational use. This policy only began 3 months ago, so no idea how you can there are falling addiction rates. Is there a different policy you are referring to? I'm not an expert, so that's definitely possible, please provide a link so I can educate myself.
Additionally, I'm not sure the program the UK implemented was very different from what Canada approved this past fall.
the UK has been doing this for decades and I think it's like I said, misleading to say addiction rates have fallen. They're still addicts, only getting it via prescription (in a controlled and monitored manner) vs the street and not any recreational user can get it from what I've read. The number of heroin addicts in the UK is dropping, especially among younger generations, but I don't think anyone attributes it to this program which has been around for decades.
Better take another look at the facts.
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In comment 13323055 BMac said:
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In comment 13322946 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
In comment 13322535 jcn56 said:
Quote:My concern is that increasing availability will increase the total number of users.
Anywhere that drugs (yes, all drugs, including heroin, cocaine, etc) have been legalized have, without fail, experienced falling addiction/use rates with the attendant reduction in crime and disease. See Portugal, Great Britain, Switzerland, specific locations in Canada.
This is very misleading.
Canada has NOT made "drugs (yes, all drugs)" legal. What they did was allow doctors to medically prescribe prescription grade heroin to already addicted users when traditional addiction treatment has not proven effective, under the care and supervision of a physician. They did not legalize heroin for recreational use. This policy only began 3 months ago, so no idea how you can there are falling addiction rates. Is there a different policy you are referring to? I'm not an expert, so that's definitely possible, please provide a link so I can educate myself.
Additionally, I'm not sure the program the UK implemented was very different from what Canada approved this past fall.
the UK has been doing this for decades and I think it's like I said, misleading to say addiction rates have fallen. They're still addicts, only getting it via prescription (in a controlled and monitored manner) vs the street and not any recreational user can get it from what I've read. The number of heroin addicts in the UK is dropping, especially among younger generations, but I don't think anyone attributes it to this program which has been around for decades.
Better take another look at the facts.
Do you have a link? Below is one link about the Canadian Heroin "legalization" from September.
Link - ( New Window )
A. Great Britain
With the report of a government commission known as the Brain Committee of 1964, England instituted a policy whereby doctors could prescribe heroin so long as they followed certain treatment criteria.47 Previously in England, doctors could prescribe heroin much like any other opiate (such as morphine). This allowed a few unscrupulous doctors to sell ungodly amounts of heroin to members of the black market.48 Consequently, it was believed that if heroin were offered at medical clinics according to stringent rules and regulations, addicts would come to these clinics to seek treatment and eventually would overcome their habit.
As of 1983, however, England began to phase out these programs of clinically supplied heroin in favor of methadone treatment.49 Why? First, according to the reputable British physician journal Lancet, the number of addicts increased 100% between 1970 and 1980.50 A disproportionate number of these new addicts were between the ages of sixteen and seventeen.51 Second, only twenty percent of all of the addicts in England belonged to the clinical programs.52 At first blush, this fact seems strange - why would addicts choose not to participate in a program wherein they get free methadone? The answer probably lies in the fact that methadone does not produce the high that heroin does. Also, addicts probably did not care for the mandatory treatment and rehabilitation facets of the clinical programs. Whatever the reason, by 1985 England had 80,000 heroin addicts, the vast majority of whom wen not in treatment.53
A third reason why England began to abolish its clinical heroin program was the fact that not only were there few people, in them, but the programs themselves did not work. According to the British Medical Journal, more addicts left the program because of criminal convictions than because of treatment.54 Fourth, even with the clinical programs, heroin addicts had a death rate twenty-six times the average population. Finally, even when the programs were in operation, Scotland Yard had to increase its narcotics division 100% in order to cope with the increased crime rate.56
To summarize, the British experience with decriminalized heroin in the clinical context was a dismal failure. When experts from British Columbia were debating whether to create a similar program, they made the following conclusions that are so important as to deserve to be quoted at length:
While some success is claimed in terms of reducing the incidence of young users, the following findings have also been noted:
1) The British approach has failed to attract a majority of addicts;
2) Many registered addicts continue to turn to illicit sources of
drugs;
3) Many registered addicts do not decrease their dosage over time;
4) Many registered addicts continue to be involved in criminal activity;
5) Many registered addicts are chronically unemployed or do not earn enough to look after themselves;
6) The death rate of registered addicts is much higher than that of the general population and may be higher than that of North American addicts;
7) Since 1960, there has been a dramatic increase in the English addict population;
8) The black market for heroin continues to thrive;
9) Law enforcement appears to remain a necessary, costly and complex control measure.
In view of the above, it is felt that the application of the British approach to British Columbia would present serious dangers.57
No indication of that as any sort of verifiable factor.
Acknowledged already. Also - cannot confirm that it isn't a factor, right?
No solid research actually exists as far as I can find, and so I revert to anecdotal evidence, of which there is plenty.
Got any evidence to the contrary of your own?
Big difference between cures everything and has efficacy for an incredible number of symptoms and conditions. So many of our pharmaceuticals are plant based, so why would it be surprising that Cannabis could be so beneficial?
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But the claims that pot cures everything and is the most miraculous wonderdrug of all time do make me roll my eyes.
Big difference between cures everything and has efficacy for an incredible number of symptoms and conditions. So many of our pharmaceuticals are plant based, so why would it be surprising that Cannabis could be so beneficial?
My wife suffers from chronic pain disorders, if the state of the law was different we would certainly consider her trying a course of therapy. However, I agree with Greg that this dogged insistence that marijuana is a wonder drug is remarkably annoying.
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A. Great Britain
With the report of a government commission known as the Brain Committee of 1964, England instituted a policy whereby doctors could prescribe heroin so long as they followed certain treatment criteria.47 Previously in England, doctors could prescribe heroin much like any other opiate (such as morphine). This allowed a few unscrupulous doctors to sell ungodly amounts of heroin to members of the black market.48 Consequently, it was believed that if heroin were offered at medical clinics according to stringent rules and regulations, addicts would come to these clinics to seek treatment and eventually would overcome their habit.
As of 1983, however, England began to phase out these programs of clinically supplied heroin in favor of methadone treatment.49 Why? First, according to the reputable British physician journal Lancet, the number of addicts increased 100% between 1970 and 1980.50 A disproportionate number of these new addicts were between the ages of sixteen and seventeen.51 Second, only twenty percent of all of the addicts in England belonged to the clinical programs.52 At first blush, this fact seems strange - why would addicts choose not to participate in a program wherein they get free methadone? The answer probably lies in the fact that methadone does not produce the high that heroin does. Also, addicts probably did not care for the mandatory treatment and rehabilitation facets of the clinical programs. Whatever the reason, by 1985 England had 80,000 heroin addicts, the vast majority of whom wen not in treatment.53
A third reason why England began to abolish its clinical heroin program was the fact that not only were there few people, in them, but the programs themselves did not work. According to the British Medical Journal, more addicts left the program because of criminal convictions than because of treatment.54 Fourth, even with the clinical programs, heroin addicts had a death rate twenty-six times the average population. Finally, even when the programs were in operation, Scotland Yard had to increase its narcotics division 100% in order to cope with the increased crime rate.56
To summarize, the British experience with decriminalized heroin in the clinical context was a dismal failure. When experts from British Columbia were debating whether to create a similar program, they made the following conclusions that are so important as to deserve to be quoted at length:
While some success is claimed in terms of reducing the incidence of young users, the following findings have also been noted:
1) The British approach has failed to attract a majority of addicts;
2) Many registered addicts continue to turn to illicit sources of
drugs;
3) Many registered addicts do not decrease their dosage over time;
4) Many registered addicts continue to be involved in criminal activity;
5) Many registered addicts are chronically unemployed or do not earn enough to look after themselves;
6) The death rate of registered addicts is much higher than that of the general population and may be higher than that of North American addicts;
7) Since 1960, there has been a dramatic increase in the English addict population;
8) The black market for heroin continues to thrive;
9) Law enforcement appears to remain a necessary, costly and complex control measure.
In view of the above, it is felt that the application of the British approach to British Columbia would present serious dangers.57
I suspect, but cannot prove, that this isn't reporting from a particular POV. It appears that the indications reported from the referenced countries are notm in accord with your referenced "facts."
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No indication of that as any sort of verifiable factor.
Acknowledged already. Also - cannot confirm that it isn't a factor, right?
No solid research actually exists as far as I can find, and so I revert to anecdotal evidence, of which there is plenty.
Got any evidence to the contrary of your own?
All I can reference you to, which I already have, is the evidence submitted by the countries I've named. I understand that I haven't cited exhaustive evidence, but frankly, I'm not going to do that on a football website. I throw the responsibility to support your assertions to you.
By percentages opiods is heavily slanted to white victims, but in total more blacks OD from opioids than from crack (and cocaine combined).
if crack ever reached these same levels of epidemic regardless of race I believe it would get the same attention.
regardless of people's perceived biases, at least in my opinion. AIDS I think may be a good example, AIDS disproportionately hit the gay and black communities, black especially, and it received a lot of attention.
the linked site doesn't show demographics of each overdose death, but I found that elsewhere. Link - ( New Window )
Based on the chart you've linked the uproar over prescription opioids is insanity. The population has increased 15% over the time period of the chart (which looks scary but in absolute numbers is puny) and the number of deaths is actually stable or decreasing.
Twice as many people die each year from accidental falls.
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there were over 30,000 deaths from opioids, 7,000 from crack (all cocaine combined), which I believe is close to the peak for cocaine.
By percentages opiods is heavily slanted to white victims, but in total more blacks OD from opioids than from crack (and cocaine combined).
if crack ever reached these same levels of epidemic regardless of race I believe it would get the same attention.
regardless of people's perceived biases, at least in my opinion. AIDS I think may be a good example, AIDS disproportionately hit the gay and black communities, black especially, and it received a lot of attention.
the linked site doesn't show demographics of each overdose death, but I found that elsewhere. Link - ( New Window )
Based on the chart you've linked the uproar over prescription opioids is insanity. The population has increased 15% over the time period of the chart (which looks scary but in absolute numbers is puny) and the number of deaths is actually stable or decreasing.
Twice as many people die each year from accidental falls.
yes, legally prescribed prescription opioids. The commercial with the soccer mom who was in a minor car accident and prescribed 20 vicodin and became a junkie heroin addict is an extreme rarity based on what I've read. In fact the link between legal prescription use and heroin use seems slim at best.
The bulk of heroin users do use pills first or at some point, but not via legitimate prescription, according at least to studies I've read.
All I can reference you to, which I already have, is the evidence submitted by the countries I've named. I understand that I haven't cited exhaustive evidence, but frankly, I'm not going to do that on a football website. I throw the responsibility to support your assertions to you.
Guess you're missing my point. What you referenced is a claim that drug use/addiction, crime and disease are reduced with legalization - right?
You do understand that's not what I'm talking about - right?
I'm talking about something very specific. I'm concerned about long-term impact of legalization on career prep.
I've already told you that - and you haven't really responded directly to it. If you have any research to share related to this then please do. If not, it's okay to admit it and we can agree that the best we have is anecdotal evidence at present.
Thanks.
There are other studies- linked a time article about another one.
As far as Vermont goes, they have a very stringent medical program, so it's not easy to get a MMJ card, esp for pain. Strictly as it relates to opiate use, you will see the most impact when doctors are prescribing cannabis for pain instead of opiates. It's not a 1:1 comparison, but cannabis works for a large chunk of the cases.
Time link - ( New Window )
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In comment 13323066 Greg from LI said:
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But the claims that pot cures everything and is the most miraculous wonderdrug of all time do make me roll my eyes.
Big difference between cures everything and has efficacy for an incredible number of symptoms and conditions. So many of our pharmaceuticals are plant based, so why would it be surprising that Cannabis could be so beneficial?
My wife suffers from chronic pain disorders, if the state of the law was different we would certainly consider her trying a course of therapy. However, I agree with Greg that this dogged insistence that marijuana is a wonder drug is remarkably annoying.
All I can state is why be annoyed when you haven't done the research on the efficacy of it? The amount of conditions it can help treat is astounding, why would that annoy you? As I said, if you're interested in learning more you can read Sunjay Guptas words on. If you want to email me I'd be happy to send over other reading material as well.
100% not what I'm saying. It's a part of the solution, but it can't be maximized as part of the solution as long as the stigma around it continues.
My point, which I've made on here several times, is that this quest for an addict deserving of our sympathy is wrongheaded. All addicts are deserving of our sympathy, because they are people, father's, sons, mothers, daughters, siblings, etc. If it's primarily a pain problem your recommendation makes all the sense in the world. Now I agree with you by and large, but not because of the opiate/opioid epidemic though.
My point, which I've made on here several times, is that this quest for an addict deserving of our sympathy is wrongheaded. All addicts are deserving of our sympathy, because they are people, father's, sons, mothers, daughters, siblings, etc. If it's primarily a pain problem your recommendation makes all the sense in the world. Now I agree with you by and large, but not because of the opiate/opioid epidemic though.
Pain can mean a lot of things, and people can become addicts for a lot of reasons. Its a longer conversation but the the reality is, as long as humans exist, they will find substances to help them get through the days. Whether those are relatively harmless like caffeine, relatively harmless in moderation but incredibly damaging when abused like alcohol or incredibly harmful on all levels like heroin, they will be sought out and used.
Its INCREDIBLY hypocritical for the US government to allow so many opiate derivatives to be legal while continuing its outdated prohibition on another drug with far more medical applications, and without all of the incredible risks and downsides of the potential of them used recreationally.
We are fighting a war that is unwinnable on too many fronts. Spending DEA money, local policing, lost tax revenue on many levels- cannabis is, conservatively, a 100 billion dollar industry on the black market. None of that revenue gets taxed, not from sales, not from income, etc.
Its not a panacea for heroin abuse, opiate abuse predates cannabis prohbition obviously. It's undoubtedly one step further to help figure out ways to reign it in though.