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NFT: Knicks Chat: Sixers tonight

DanMetroMan : 1/11/2017 9:52 am
-I expect a win tonight (for once)

-Cousins expected to sign an extension worth 207 million with the Kings per multiple reports

-My "2nd team" for this season the Jazz knocked off the Cavs and LBJ complained about not getting calls lolz

-Isaiah Thomas is averaging 34, 5 and 3 over his last 5 games on 52% from the field, 57% from 3, wow

-Harden 40, 15 and 10, ho hum

-Whiteside 28 and 20 on 13-17 from the field

- Under the radar but Caldwell-Pope is becoming a very nice player. Surprising 40% from 3

-Is there any way we could pry McLemore on a buy low?
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i thought mclemore was gettable in the summer  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2017 9:54 am : link
i really wish knicks didnt sign thomas to the deal he got, i feel like hornacek has to play him even though kuz is better
Wonder how many of our players  
Deej : 1/11/2017 10:00 am : link
attend the game
RE: Wonder how many of our players  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2017 10:10 am : link
In comment 13321079 Deej said:
Quote:
attend the game


the fact that this os funny, is just the sad state of being a knicks fan right now
I wouldn't expect the Knicks to win any game at this juncture  
Giantology : 1/11/2017 10:10 am : link
They are a mess and our defense is nonexistent
This me completely reading into what rose said  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2017 10:12 am : link
which obviously was not much, but it almost seemed like it was being homesick and needed to talk to his family...

you would think if his mother was sick or someone in his family was hurt he would not of come back that quickly...

now this could just be the team.and coach atickingnup for him, but they all backed him up and said they understood, still really weird
Moving  
DanMetroMan : 1/11/2017 10:17 am : link
on from Rose being MIA... I'm growing really tired of him bitching about the defense given the fact his defense has been really bad as well. He's asked about the offense then gives the defense answer every time as if he realizes that's what people want to hear.
RE: Moving  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2017 10:27 am : link
In comment 13321136 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
on from Rose being MIA... I'm growing really tired of him bitching about the defense given the fact his defense has been really bad as well. He's asked about the offense then gives the defense answer every time as if he realizes that's what people want to hear.


i think in chicago he had such a good defensive team around him and great defensive coach that it hid him very well and lets be honest he probably played harder for thibs on that end. mainly because thibs let him do whatever he wanted on the offensive end...

RE: RE: Moving  
DanMetroMan : 1/11/2017 10:30 am : link
In comment 13321159 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13321136 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


on from Rose being MIA... I'm growing really tired of him bitching about the defense given the fact his defense has been really bad as well. He's asked about the offense then gives the defense answer every time as if he realizes that's what people want to hear.



i think in chicago he had such a good defensive team around him and great defensive coach that it hid him very well and lets be honest he probably played harder for thibs on that end. mainly because thibs let him do whatever he wanted on the offensive end...


I think you are 100% right on both counts. I don't have anything against Rose (even after this incident) but it just gets tedious seeing him "care" so much about defense and then not bringing it on the court. You are right though, both points seem valid.
look at the bright side  
Enzo : 1/11/2017 10:30 am : link
we finally get to see Chasson Randle tonight!
I think Rose tries defensively  
dep026 : 1/11/2017 10:30 am : link
but he isnt very good at it anymore. I think he sees certain players not trying.
the knicks are becoming my 6th grade summer baseball team  
Tuckrule : 1/11/2017 10:33 am : link
whos going to show up and can we finally just win a damn game
RE: I think Rose tries defensively  
EricNY33 : 1/11/2017 10:35 am : link
In comment 13321170 dep026 said:
Quote:
but he isnt very good at it anymore. I think he sees certain players not trying.


No he doesn't. He doesn't fight over screens and he bails on the play as soon as the player gets the slightest step.

His defensive technique is horrible.
RE: RE: I think Rose tries defensively  
nygiants16 : 1/11/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13321186 EricNY33 said:
Quote:
In comment 13321170 dep026 said:


Quote:


but he isnt very good at it anymore. I think he sees certain players not trying.



No he doesn't. He doesn't fight over screens and he bails on the play as soon as the player gets the slightest step.

His defensive technique is horrible.


he relies to much on the big to step up, rather than just going under the screen
RE: I think Rose tries defensively  
Deej : 1/11/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13321170 dep026 said:
Quote:
but he isnt very good at it anymore. I think he sees certain players not trying.


Man, you have to withdraw your tongue from Rose's ass at some point.
RE: I think Rose tries defensively  
Sean : 1/11/2017 10:49 am : link
In comment 13321170 dep026 said:
Quote:
but he isnt very good at it anymore. I think he sees certain players not trying.


Dep, just wanted to apologize to you for my rude comments about your NBA/NCAAB thread. I was extremely frustrated after that Packers hail mary.
RE: RE: I think Rose tries defensively  
dep026 : 1/11/2017 10:54 am : link
In comment 13321207 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13321170 dep026 said:


Quote:


but he isnt very good at it anymore. I think he sees certain players not trying.



Man, you have to withdraw your tongue from Rose's ass at some point.


Saying he isn't very good at defense is a compliment?
RE: RE: I think Rose tries defensively  
dep026 : 1/11/2017 10:54 am : link
In comment 13321227 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 13321170 dep026 said:


Quote:


but he isnt very good at it anymore. I think he sees certain players not trying.



Dep, just wanted to apologize to you for my rude comments about your NBA/NCAAB thread. I was extremely frustrated after that Packers hail mary.


I as well. I hate when the giants lose.
RE: RE: RE: I think Rose tries defensively  
Deej : 1/11/2017 10:56 am : link
In comment 13321237 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 13321207 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13321170 dep026 said:


Quote:


but he isnt very good at it anymore. I think he sees certain players not trying.



Man, you have to withdraw your tongue from Rose's ass at some point.



Saying he isn't very good at defense is a compliment?


Any time a criticism of Rose is leveled, you effectively say that someone is worse, or someone else is causing the problem. Rose isnt good on D? Well others arent even trying.

From the games Im watching, Rose isnt trying. His backdoor is wide open.
207 million  
djm : 1/11/2017 10:59 am : link
that's a lot of cheddar. But the guy's super good.
Rose is the Amare  
giantsfan44ab : 1/11/2017 11:00 am : link
Stoudemire of guards on PnR defense.
Dan you missed the Bucks beating the Spurs  
giantsfan44ab : 1/11/2017 11:01 am : link
No LMA but also Giannis played 9 ineffective minutes due to sickness.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Rose tries defensively  
EricNY33 : 1/11/2017 11:05 am : link
In comment 13321247 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13321237 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 13321207 Deej said:


Quote:


In comment 13321170 dep026 said:


Quote:


but he isnt very good at it anymore. I think he sees certain players not trying.



Man, you have to withdraw your tongue from Rose's ass at some point.



Saying he isn't very good at defense is a compliment?



Any time a criticism of Rose is leveled, you effectively say that someone is worse, or someone else is causing the problem. Rose isnt good on D? Well others arent even trying.

From the games Im watching, Rose isnt trying. His backdoor is wide open.


Um... context people! Context!!
RE: RE: RE: Moving  
djm : 1/11/2017 11:07 am : link
In comment 13321167 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13321159 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13321136 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


on from Rose being MIA... I'm growing really tired of him bitching about the defense given the fact his defense has been really bad as well. He's asked about the offense then gives the defense answer every time as if he realizes that's what people want to hear.



i think in chicago he had such a good defensive team around him and great defensive coach that it hid him very well and lets be honest he probably played harder for thibs on that end. mainly because thibs let him do whatever he wanted on the offensive end...




I think you are 100% right on both counts. I don't have anything against Rose (even after this incident) but it just gets tedious seeing him "care" so much about defense and then not bringing it on the court. You are right though, both points seem valid.


I think Rose is just frustrated with the team's style of play, which obviously does not lend itself to defense. Rose probably even acknowledges that he's not a good defensive player but the team's style of play is just awful in my opinion. And Rose knows it. The Knicks could be a good defensive team with Rose at the helm, I firmly believe that.
Philly has won 3 in their last 4  
giantsfan44ab : 1/11/2017 11:08 am : link
Not a gimme but I expect to win.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Moving  
Deej : 1/11/2017 11:08 am : link
In comment 13321271 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13321167 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13321159 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13321136 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


on from Rose being MIA... I'm growing really tired of him bitching about the defense given the fact his defense has been really bad as well. He's asked about the offense then gives the defense answer every time as if he realizes that's what people want to hear.



i think in chicago he had such a good defensive team around him and great defensive coach that it hid him very well and lets be honest he probably played harder for thibs on that end. mainly because thibs let him do whatever he wanted on the offensive end...




I think you are 100% right on both counts. I don't have anything against Rose (even after this incident) but it just gets tedious seeing him "care" so much about defense and then not bringing it on the court. You are right though, both points seem valid.



I think Rose is just frustrated with the team's style of play, which obviously does not lend itself to defense. Rose probably even acknowledges that he's not a good defensive player but the team's style of play is just awful in my opinion. And Rose knows it. The Knicks could be a good defensive team with Rose at the helm, I firmly believe that.


Syrup or jelly?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Moving  
EricNY33 : 1/11/2017 11:09 am : link
In comment 13321271 djm said:



I think Rose is just frustrated with the team's style of play, which obviously does not lend itself to defense. Rose probably even acknowledges that he's not a good defensive player but the team's style of play is just awful in my opinion. And Rose knows it. The Knicks could be a good defensive team with Rose at the helm, I firmly believe that. [/quote]

Unless he learns how to play defense at the point of attack then no. It won't ever be good with Rose at the helm.
Sorry about  
EricNY33 : 1/11/2017 11:10 am : link
my messed up editing of the quote above.
Don Lagreca brought up some good points about the Knicks...  
bceagle05 : 1/11/2017 11:11 am : link
How much are these guys truly invested in the success of the team?

Is Phil Jackson really all in, or did he just want the money and the ego gratification of being hailed as the savior?

Is Carmelo taking the easy way out? Just putting up numbers and getting paid, knowing that he'll always be able to say that he was loyal and the Knicks just didn't put the pieces around him.

Does Derrick Rose care at all about helping the Knicks win games? Of course not. Blowing off games, bitching about playing time after a dramatic win, refusing to pass more because he wants to pads stats for free agency, etc.

The Knicks need to play guys who will play their hearts out for the team: KP, Jennings, Lance, Willy, Kuz, Holiday, O'Quinn, Baker and - on a limited basis - Noah. I think Lee gives an honest effort, but we should explore trade options there. Rose should be traded, benched or bought out. Melo trades should be explored - if he refuses to waive the no-trade, tell him he's coming off the bench.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Moving  
giantsfan44ab : 1/11/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13321271 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13321167 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13321159 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13321136 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


on from Rose being MIA... I'm growing really tired of him bitching about the defense given the fact his defense has been really bad as well. He's asked about the offense then gives the defense answer every time as if he realizes that's what people want to hear.



i think in chicago he had such a good defensive team around him and great defensive coach that it hid him very well and lets be honest he probably played harder for thibs on that end. mainly because thibs let him do whatever he wanted on the offensive end...




I think you are 100% right on both counts. I don't have anything against Rose (even after this incident) but it just gets tedious seeing him "care" so much about defense and then not bringing it on the court. You are right though, both points seem valid.



I think Rose is just frustrated with the team's style of play, which obviously does not lend itself to defense. Rose probably even acknowledges that he's not a good defensive player but the team's style of play is just awful in my opinion. And Rose knows it. The Knicks could be a good defensive team with Rose at the helm, I firmly believe that.


He could lead a good defensive team if he had kawhi Leonard and Rudy gobert behind him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Moving  
Deej : 1/11/2017 11:18 am : link
In comment 13321292 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:


He could lead a good defensive team if he had kawhi Leonard and Rudy gobert behind him.


I feel that way about Melo. Put him on a team with some star defenders. Hide him a bit, reduce his offensive responsibilities, play him 28 minutes. Melo's defense would be a revelation according to the media. Doesnt mean squat for the 2016 Knicks tho.
I hope I am home for this matchup  
dep026 : 1/11/2017 11:24 am : link
I see the 76ers a lot since they are my home station and they either look pretty good or downright awful. They have absolutely no guard play, so this would be a game where Rose should have the ball in his hands a lot.

Also, Porz will have opportunities going against Illysova and Saric.

I am calling a double technical for Embiid and Noah tonight. Embiid is a passionate player and Noah will try to get under his skin.
You guys got me thinking yesterday  
Carl in CT : 1/11/2017 11:33 am : link
Is it really time to tank. If the answer is yes then this is a good game to start. If it's no then we better win. I'm torn cause I love the Knicks!
They'll be in the top 10 of the draft  
bceagle05 : 1/11/2017 11:36 am : link
whether they try to or not. They've lost 8 out of 9, Rose has checked out, Melo will soon check out (the shoulder injury is his ready-made excuse) - it's time to start paying closer attention to college prospects.
RE: They'll be in the top 10 of the draft  
giantsfan44ab : 1/11/2017 11:41 am : link
In comment 13321346 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
whether they try to or not. They've lost 8 out of 9, Rose has checked out, Melo will soon check out (the shoulder injury is his ready-made excuse) - it's time to start paying closer attention to college prospects.


We need to get Rose off this team and cash in Jennings, KOQ and Holiday for whatever we can get.
Top 10 is so tough  
Deej : 1/11/2017 11:44 am : link
there are 3 dreadfuls in the East (PHI, MIA, BK). The West is unbelievable. Portland is on pace for 34.8 wins... and the 8 seed. 8 Western teams are not on pace for 35 wins. OKC, the 7 seed, is on pace for 48 wins. Im not sure we've ever seen anything like this. A 13+ win (pace) gap between the 7 and 8 seed.
You're right, top 10 might be pushing it.  
bceagle05 : 1/11/2017 11:53 am : link
I could see Orlando passing us by in the East, maybe Minnesota out West, since they're playing a little better. We're at #13 right now so it'll be a close call.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Moving  
EricNY33 : 1/11/2017 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13321313 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13321292 giantsfan44ab said:


Quote:




He could lead a good defensive team if he had kawhi Leonard and Rudy gobert behind him.



I feel that way about Melo. Put him on a team with some star defenders. Hide him a bit, reduce his offensive responsibilities, play him 28 minutes. Melo's defense would be a revelation according to the media. Doesnt mean squat for the 2016 Knicks tho.


Essentially what the Knicks did with Allan Houston
RE: Top 10 is so tough  
giantsfan44ab : 1/11/2017 12:21 pm : link
In comment 13321359 Deej said:
Quote:
there are 3 dreadfuls in the East (PHI, MIA, BK). The West is unbelievable. Portland is on pace for 34.8 wins... and the 8 seed. 8 Western teams are not on pace for 35 wins. OKC, the 7 seed, is on pace for 48 wins. Im not sure we've ever seen anything like this. A 13+ win (pace) gap between the 7 and 8 seed.


If we sell off assets I think we will finish behind Portland, sac and Denver, the 3 teams fighting for the 8 spot in the west.
Throw in the Pelicans  
giantsfan44ab : 1/11/2017 12:22 pm : link
They've been .500 since holiday returned.
Well the West 8 seed in any event  
Deej : 1/11/2017 12:25 pm : link
will pick after all the non-playoff teams regardless of record.
Upcoming schedule  
DanMetroMan : 1/11/2017 12:33 pm : link
... I want them to tank but their upcoming schedule is pretty "easy"

They have the Sixers, Suns and Dallas 3 of the next 9 + games against even teams like the Bulls and Hawks.

Next 15 games they play Sixers, Suns, Dallas, Bulls, Hawks (twice), Wizards twice, Lakers, Hornets
In fact  
DanMetroMan : 1/11/2017 12:37 pm : link
i predict following the 3/16 game vs. Brooklyn the Knicks are the 6 or 7 seed position
at some point they have to get lucky in the lottery, right?  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2017 12:41 pm : link
Even in those rare years when they keep their pick, they always seem to drop from where they would have picked without the lottery.
I'd trade everyone I could aside from KP.  
yatqb : 1/11/2017 12:42 pm : link
If Melo was amenable, I'd jump at unloading him, and Rose, and Thomas, etc., etc.
Rose, Noah and Melo are not realistic trade options in my opinion.  
bceagle05 : 1/11/2017 12:49 pm : link
Courtney Lee probably has the most value. Jennings can be moved, but you're leaving yourself awfully thin at PG if Rose gets hurt or disappears again. O'Quinn might get you a late first or a second rounder, but why not wait til draft night? Otherwise I'm not seeing much, even if they wanted to sell. Willy and Kuz have some nice chemistry with KP - that's something that should be cultivated.
KOQ  
DanMetroMan : 1/11/2017 12:50 pm : link
for a #2 is a massive pass for me.
I would tend to agree  
bceagle05 : 1/11/2017 12:53 pm : link
but if they had traded O'Quinn for a #2 last year and drafted a guy like Brogdon, we'd all be pretty happy about it. It's something I would only do on draft night - if there's a guy sitting there that Clarence Gaines loves, and for whatever reason we can't just buy a pick, I'd be fine with it.
RE: KOQ  
Deej : 1/11/2017 12:56 pm : link
In comment 13321473 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
for a #2 is a massive pass for me.


Me too. I'd want something in the late teens. Even pick 25 doesnt motivate me.

Also, I'd hang on to Willy. Of course you worry about his D, but he's a rookie Euro. Euro bigs D often lags but comes around to be competent or better (Im also convinced that good D is usually about team and scheme). Willy's per 36 stats as a Euro rookie who could use a year or two in US training are pretty good. 14.5 points, 12.1 rebounds (!), 1.3 blocks, almost a steal, 2.2 assists. 55% shooting and 69% FT. There is a LOT to work with there. Even if it is in a Kanter-like bench C role, Willy could be a real good piece here.
RE: I would tend to agree  
DanMetroMan : 1/11/2017 1:05 pm : link
In comment 13321476 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
but if they had traded O'Quinn for a #2 last year and drafted a guy like Brogdon, we'd all be pretty happy about it. It's something I would only do on draft night - if there's a guy sitting there that Clarence Gaines loves, and for whatever reason we can't just buy a pick, I'd be fine with it.


Sure if we can go back in time KOQ for Brogdon is a no-brainer however for every Brogdon there are 20+ others who won't have NBA careers each year. If a specific player fell to a spot where the Knicks absolutely loved them, then yeah sure I'd deal KOQ but right now without this scenario it's a major pass for me.
there's only one Uncle Malcolm  
Greg from LI : 1/11/2017 1:15 pm : link
The NBA draft CW exists for a reason - most of the time, it's correct. What happened with Brogs was that they rigidly clung to the CW rather than approaching his evaluation with an open mind and seeing 1)that he wasn't nearly as unathletic as some people assumed - not the quickest, but VERY strong for a guard. He's a powerfully built dude 2)that he dominated some players who were NBA bound - I think here of Brandon Ingram, who was absolutely torching us in Cameron until Brogdon shifted over to guard him and shut him down completely 3)that he possesses rare intelligence and maturity. His BBIQ and work ethic are off the charts.

It was a huge mistake for so many teams to overlook him, but he's a rare bird.
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