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5 up 5 down from the 2016-17 Season

Old Dirty Beckham : 1/11/2017 11:01 am
5 Down

1) Weston Richburg: Going into the season a lot was expected out of Richburg. He showed signs of leadership when calling out his fellow linemen over their lack of work in the offseason. PFF had him as a rising star and many thought he'd reach the All-Pro level. That didn't happen. Richburg by no means had a bad season but the big leap many were expecting didn't happen. Going into his fourth year and a contract needing to be redone this will be a big summer for Weston.

2) Special Teams: Brad Wing had a good season but our coverage units and return units were not good. Too many times the ball wound up on the ground in punt return situations whether it was OBJ, Harris or Rainey. Harris had a great season as a gunner but with his salary and lack of pop in the return game this year one has to wonder if the Giants wont approach him about a salary reduction or an outright cut. The Josh Brown situation was a mess. Gould made his fgs but missed a couple XP and couldn't reach the endzone on kickoffs. The special teams were particularly bad against GB.

3) Ereck Flowers: Flowers wasn't necessarily worse than last year but the fact that there wasn't any tangible improvement lands him on this list. Flowers is well on his way to being the worst pick of the Jerry Reese era. As the 9th overall pick Flowers was expected to go through rookie pains in year 1 particularly after being thrust into the LT spot after Beatty went down. But in year two Flowers may have been worse. There were reports he didn't get along with OL coach his rookie year and he shoved a reporter during year two. One has to wonder if this kid is coachable.

4) Discipline: The Giants organization kind of took a hit this season in regards to the behavior on and off the field. Odell Beckham proposing to FG nets, taking his helmet off on the field, reporters being shoved, the boat trip, the Josh Brown situation, punching holes in opposing teams walls, etc. McAdoo kept the team focused throughout this but I'd like to see the Giants clean up their professionalism next season.

5) The offense: This one is obvious. The Giants wasted a superbowl caliber defense by fielding one of the worst offenses in the NFL. Not carrying a FB/H-Back was a curious decision. I'm aware they had some injuries but there had to have been a player they could pick up that would allow them to run out of the information or a goaline set. The tight end position was a joke. Eli, for whatever reason didn't play up to par. It's valid to point out that play around him as a reason but when there were plays to be made Eli missed too often. He needs to have a bounce back year.

5 UP

1) Health: What a difference a year makes. After a few seasons where the Giants couldn't stay healthy they were about as healthy as you could ask for. Sure, Vereen and JPP suffered bad injuries but this was a healthy team for the most part. Not a lot of nagging injuries. No patchwork units week to week. Kudos to the new staff and improved luck.

2) Jerry Reese: Reese took his beatings over the last few years and still has work to do but boy did he upgrade the talent of this roster over the last three years. The core of the team has been completely reshaped. Snacks, OV, Jenkins were all big ticket free agents and all worked out. Had these signings failed Reese would likely be out of a job. The early returns on the 2016 draft class are strong and OBJ and Collins are All-Pro players drafted in the last two years.

3) Landon Collins: As mentioned above Collins is an All-Pro player. What a difference a year makes. Collins had a rough rookie year for a magnitude of reasons. Everyone knew he was playing out of position and he would improve in his natural role but I don't think anybody saw this quantum leap. He wont win it but he's a legitimate DPOY candidate. Hats off to Landon.

4) The Pass D. Does this really need an explanation? With Jenkins, Collins & Apple signed long term and two more (hopefully) years of DRC the Giants secondary is in great shape. Along with the Broncos the Giants have arguably the best secondary in the NFL. Rookie S Darian Thompson disappointingly missed his rookie season with a foot injury but should be back in the fold. The Giants were high on him. This unit was fantastic. The best, by far, I've seen as a 30 year old Fan.

5) JPP: This could be the Dline in general but I thought JPP needed an individual shoutout. After blowing his hand up JPP really showed he can still play in the NFL. I think some fans are overrating his play because he cleaned up in a three week span but it's clear JPP is still a top player at his position. A more natural pass rusher than OV who is great a timing bat downs for the QB. A must resign for the NY Giants IMO.

Anyone else have anything different?
Okwara  
Giants2012 : 1/11/2017 11:07 am : link
we saw he's not camp fodder or a just another guy. He contributed and showed potential.

It's nice when a JPP goes down there was a Okwara and a Wynn who came in and did pretty well. That vacancy wasn't a weakness that opponents went right after and killed the team.

Pretty Spot on ODB  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/11/2017 11:10 am : link
Good summary man
I disagree with your first point  
The_Boss : 1/11/2017 11:11 am : link
Richburg, to me, had a bad year.
RE: Pretty Spot on ODB  
superspynyg : 1/11/2017 11:18 am : link
In comment 13321284 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Good summary man


cant people leave ODB alone? He has been dead for years.
RE: Okwara  
Simms11 : 1/11/2017 11:30 am : link
In comment 13321272 Giants2012 said:
Quote:
we saw he's not camp fodder or a just another guy. He contributed and showed potential.

It's nice when a JPP goes down there was a Okwara and a Wynn who came in and did pretty well. That vacancy wasn't a weakness that opponents went right after and killed the team.


actually Okwara did very well in camp and pre-season. That's why he made the team.
RE: I disagree with your first point  
Victor in CT : 1/11/2017 11:38 am : link
In comment 13321287 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Richburg, to me, had a bad year.


I agree. I am more worried about Richburg than Flowers. If the middle of the line gets manhandled no QB or offense has a chance to be consistent. And unlike Flowers, Richburg has no other position. He was terrible at LG.
Good  
AcidTest : 1/11/2017 11:39 am : link
analysis.
overall good job  
gmenatlarge : 1/11/2017 11:48 am : link
but I can't agree on reese I would give him a C as he did NOTHING for the offense, which was inexcusable but his FA signings were excellent.
Add another to the "Up" Column  
ManningLobsItBurressAlone : 1/11/2017 11:51 am : link
6) Rookie Class- Apple, Shepard, Perkins, Thompson, Adams, Goodson (albeit in a limited fashion & specials). Seems like we got 2 long term starters (hopefully 3 with Thompson) in Apple & Shepard, and if nothing, a great change of pace back in Perkins. Adams/Goodson could be challenging for spots as soon as next year, and we may be able to add them to the long term starter list if they pan out like we hope. Thompson had rave reviews and looked pretty good in his limited duty. This could be a HR class with all 6 picks contributing.
RE: RE: I disagree with your first point  
Old Dirty Beckham : 1/11/2017 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13321349 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 13321287 The_Boss said:


Quote:


Richburg, to me, had a bad year.



I agree. I am more worried about Richburg than Flowers. If the middle of the line gets manhandled no QB or offense has a chance to be consistent. And unlike Flowers, Richburg has no other position. He was terrible at LG.


We assume Flowers has another position?
with regard to Flowers  
Enzo : 1/11/2017 12:03 pm : link
keep in mind many here were predicting big things for him going into this season based on the notion that he was playing hurt during his rookie season. That he was stagnant or may have even regressed is huge cause for concern. It's possible and becoming likely that he's simply not very good.
D. Thompson  
MotownGIANTS : 1/11/2017 12:07 pm : link
can not be an additional UP he has yet to stay on the field. At best he lands in the <--> category.

Hopefully the injury plight we have yearly continues to trend in a positive direction that was a big part of the success we had this year.
I have a feeling Richburg was playing hurt this year  
Milton : 1/11/2017 12:08 pm : link
Either that or we had an inflated opinion of his game last year. A guy with his intelligence and work ethic doesn't take a step back in his third season without a logical explanation (and the only other explanation I can think of is that defenses figured him out, which doesn't make sense for the center position).
RE: RE: RE: I disagree with your first point  
Victor in CT : 1/11/2017 12:10 pm : link
In comment 13321397 Old Dirty Beckham said:
Quote:
In comment 13321349 Victor in CT said:


Quote:


In comment 13321287 The_Boss said:


Quote:


Richburg, to me, had a bad year.



I agree. I am more worried about Richburg than Flowers. If the middle of the line gets manhandled no QB or offense has a chance to be consistent. And unlike Flowers, Richburg has no other position. He was terrible at LG.



We assume Flowers has another position?


How many folks have been clamoring for him to be a RT? Many scouts thought he was best suited there. He may not be, but they will try. We already KNOW that Richburg can't play Guard.
RE: overall good job  
superspynyg : 1/11/2017 12:12 pm : link
In comment 13321367 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
but I can't agree on reese I would give him a C as he did NOTHING for the offense, which was inexcusable but his FA signings were excellent.


I would give him a B. You cant fix everything in one offseason with all the holes we had. Based on 2015 he chose to fix the def and did a hell of a job. Now he must try and fix the offense which did take a step back. He did do something for the offense. Have you heard of Sterling Sheppard? He was a big boost for this team this year.
RE: I have a feeling Richburg was playing hurt this year  
Victor in CT : 1/11/2017 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13321413 Milton said:
Quote:
Either that or we had an inflated opinion of his game last year. A guy with his intelligence and work ethic doesn't take a step back in his third season without a logical explanation (and the only other explanation I can think of is that defenses figured him out, which doesn't make sense for the center position).


I think the defenses caught on that he can't handle bull rushes or having a DT line up directly in front of him, that he isn't strong enough.
RE: RE: overall good job  
gmenatlarge : 1/11/2017 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13321421 superspynyg said:
Quote:
In comment 13321367 gmenatlarge said:


Quote:


but I can't agree on reese I would give him a C as he did NOTHING for the offense, which was inexcusable but his FA signings were excellent.



I would give him a B. You cant fix everything in one offseason with all the holes we had. Based on 2015 he chose to fix the def and did a hell of a job. Now he must try and fix the offense which did take a step back. He did do something for the offense. Have you heard of Sterling Sheppard? He was a big boost for this team this year.

OK I'll give you Shepard, but is he going to block for Eli, No effort made to improve maybe the worst line in football is inexcusable when you have a 35 year old immobile QB.
Everything is on the o-line play. Given more time, Elicanand has made  
Ivan15 : 1/11/2017 12:54 pm : link
Even Mediocre receivers look good.

Richburg is undersized. Look at the top centers in the league. Are any of them as light as Richburg?

One new player, a LT, would move the ranking of this line about 10 spots even if the RT/RG spots are manned by Flowers, Jerry, Hart, Jones or Newhouse (pick any 2 of 5).
Before I comment with my own,  
Matt M. : 1/11/2017 12:58 pm : link
I would say Wing had an inconsistent season. He was average, at best for about half the season, outstanding in the second half of the season, and terrible in the playoff game.
RE: RE: I have a feeling Richburg was playing hurt this year  
Milton : 1/11/2017 1:04 pm : link
In comment 13321425 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 13321413 Milton said:


Quote:


Either that or we had an inflated opinion of his game last year. A guy with his intelligence and work ethic doesn't take a step back in his third season without a logical explanation (and the only other explanation I can think of is that defenses figured him out, which doesn't make sense for the center position).



I think the defenses caught on that he can't handle bull rushes or having a DT line up directly in front of him, that he isn't strong enough.
But I would think that's something they would figure out right away. It's not the kind of thing that takes hours of film study to notice.
I can't really  
giantgiantfan : 1/11/2017 1:33 pm : link
dispute anything the OP stated. On point.
Add Eli to the down...  
est1986 : 1/11/2017 1:53 pm : link
Being honest...
RE: Before I comment with my own,  
Matt M. : 1/11/2017 2:37 pm : link
In comment 13321482 Matt M. said:
Quote:
I would say Wing had an inconsistent season. He was average, at best for about half the season, outstanding in the second half of the season, and terrible in the playoff game.
I originally thought you had included ST in the Ups category. My bad.
Very good list Old Dirty Beckham...  
Dan in the Springs : 1/11/2017 3:08 pm : link
I wouldn't change much... but here's my edits.

I'd take OUT JPP and put IN Spags. His arrow is WAY up compared to what everyone thought of him last year. His interviewing for the HC job seemed to be nothing more than a courtesy, as not many people viewed him as a hot coaching candidate.

He's not there yet, but he did so much to redeem himself this year. More so than even JPP, imo.

Another down arrow would probably be Jennings, imo. Coming into the season I felt he was an effective back, and by the end I feel he's less than effective, not deserving of a starter's share of reps.

Good list though - like the discussion.
RE: Add Eli to the down...  
djm : 1/11/2017 3:52 pm : link
In comment 13321598 est1986 said:
Quote:
Being honest...


Eli had the Giants in position to win a road playoff game and he led them to 11 wins. Yes he had some ugly moments but those ugly moments didn't exactly lead to many losses, if any at all.

Was Eli the reason why this team isn't playing next Sunday?

I feel good about Eli going forward. Give him another weapon and/or improve the OL and he won't be a problem in 2017.
I know stats can be deceiving  
djm : 1/11/2017 3:54 pm : link
but Eli's stats are right around the average for his career. OK he didn't have the numbers he pup up in 2014-2015 but he won more games.

11 wins + decent stats.
On Richburg  
blueblood'11 : 1/12/2017 7:40 am : link
I think he'll be okay. Keep in mind most of the pressures Eli faced came of the edges. I think for the most part the middle of the line held up well in pass protection. But the elephant in the room was the running game.
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