Last year's franchise tag for DE's was $15.7M and the transition tag was $12.7M. If it's a situation in which the Giants and JPP both want to get a deal done, but can't agree on his value, it might make sense to use the franchise tag. This would give him the opportunity to gage his market value but at the same time ensure that the Giants would be able to match it if they so chose.
The transition tag isn't used all that often these days but this could be one of those cases that fits the profile for it (amicable negotiations where an honest disagreement on value needs the free market to settle the difference of opinion). The three day "legal tampering" window has to some degree made the transition tag unnecessary, but that's not entirely so. Teams are allowed to talk to agents, not players, during the three days and obviously there are no visits with players either.
Either tag would shock the hell out of me.
Enough B.S. with JPP. It's time to either sign him 3-4 years or let him ride off into the sunset.
Patrick: Would you want an upset player? The F-tag surely pays well for a DE but there's no security with it. If a player on the F-tag is injured during the season, he has no more contract in place after the current year. One year deals are risky to the players.
It's business - just like a player who has made double digit millions needs to look out for his family, the team has to look out for their future. You don't skip a tag just because someone doesn't like it.
The transition tag gives another team the right to screw with you and your cap. I wouldn't use it.
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I'd consider the franchise tag.
Patrick: Would you want an upset player? The F-tag surely pays well for a DE but there's no security with it. If a player on the F-tag is injured during the season, he has no more contract in place after the current year. One year deals are risky to the players.
Absolutely. Most agents and players get that if a player quits on a team or has a questionable injury as a way to express how discontent they are it will cost them money. If they can't negotiate a deal early and the tag him there will be teams willing to trade.
I just can't fathom having a player on the roster worth 15 million a year that the agiants drafted and not getting something in return for losing that player.
The players can get angry all they want - the tags are part of the CBA that they agreed to, which has good and bad. All those practices in pads that don't happen anymore? CBA. So if you're willing to accept what's favorable to you, you also have to accept the downside.
JPP will get tagged if they can't find a middle ground. He'll be 29 at the end of that year. It's in his best interest to either find a trade partner or come to terms on an extension with the Giants, because fame is fleeting in this league and every play carries with it a risk of injury that might kill your future prospects. Even if he exited that year unharmed, he'd be almost 30, where NFL players typically have their best ball behind them. The prospects for a longer term deal will be affected by his performance, his health, his age - only contract inflation will be working in his favor.
Enough B.S. with JPP. It's time to either sign him 3-4 years or let him ride off into the sunset.
Almost no player wants to play on the tag. In fact I've never heard a player say anything good about it or even neutral.
Which I personally find somewhat sanctimonious. I mean the DE tag this year I believe will be around 17M and once you sign it, it becomes guaranteed, so I have a hard time being sympathetic for the exploitation of a football player and holding him down from the big $$ for $17M guaranteed.
but that has very little to do with what the Giants can or should do. If it makes sense for the Giants to tag him they should. JPP has earned over $34M in his career, a year on the tag would put him over $50M I'll guess that's more than 90% of football players make in their careers.
if he winds up playing on the tag (which I think would be worse for the Giants than it would be for JPP so I don't think it's a good idea) I would not shed one tear for poor JPP.
Not being a dick, seriously don't know. I hear players/agents threaten it, has anyone done it and had it work out?
He'd lose money in the short term, but he'd have his freedom. Signing in Week 10 guarantees no tag the following year as it factor in QB salaries. It would also be after the trade deadline so the Giants would not be able to trade him for compensation.
I have a feeling that some team is willing to sign JPP to a long term contract even if he sits a year. Arizona was willing to pay him 2 mil/year sight unseen after his partial season play with a bloody club. He took his hometown discount to prove his health and talent. 31 other teams have now seen him return to form and will sign him when he becomes available. No team will give us draft picks and sign him to a long-term deal. The FT will only give us time (July 15) in working out a deal. After the 15th, he can only play on the tag or not. If I'm him and it has progressed that far, there is no way I would let the Giants get any compensation for his rights. At which point he can lose money and hope the Giants rescind the tag, in which case he'll be free to sign with any team. Or sit until week 10.
Making up for $17M in guaranteed, lost income - at 29 years old after a serious injury and recurring back problems - is not going to be realistic. It's not as if the difference between what the Giants offer and what the next team on the list does will differ by $20M in guaranteed money.
Enough B.S. with JPP. It's time to either sign him 3-4 years or let him ride off into the sunset.
Many players say this, and then they sign because top money for 1 year is better than $0 for a year.
I Agee
IMO, JPP is due for a good move. Blows his hand off, says nobody does what he does with 7.5 fingers and just tore his groin (or whatever). He has security so will he sign a franchise tag (if applied) and risk losing more money if he gets injured again or play roulette and gamble for the big bucks?
Regardless, he's set for life already unless he wants to live like an idiot and blow it all. IMO, he's due for a smart move.
Long List, you wont believe such a list, I mean its BIG, a big, big, list, and next year is going to be such an incredible success, you wont believe it.
The transition tag gives another team the right to screw with you and your cap. I wouldn't use it.
Agreed.
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His prime years are winding down, and he'd essentially be sacrificing salary in one of them. Being away from football for a year and not earning would not do him any favors.
He'd lose money in the short term, but he'd have his freedom. Signing in Week 10 guarantees no tag the following year as it factor in QB salaries. It would also be after the trade deadline so the Giants would not be able to trade him for compensation.
I have a feeling that some team is willing to sign JPP to a long term contract even if he sits a year. Arizona was willing to pay him 2 mil/year sight unseen after his partial season play with a bloody club. He took his hometown discount to prove his health and talent. 31 other teams have now seen him return to form and will sign him when he becomes available. No team will give us draft picks and sign him to a long-term deal. The FT will only give us time (July 15) in working out a deal. After the 15th, he can only play on the tag or not. If I'm him and it has progressed that far, there is no way I would let the Giants get any compensation for his rights. At which point he can lose money and hope the Giants rescind the tag, in which case he'll be free to sign with any team. Or sit until week 10.
It would only take QB salaries into consideration I believe if it's 3 consecutive years. JPP has not been tagged 3 consecutive years.
Year 1 would be this year, since the hand blow up year the Giants removed the tag placed him on NFI and negotiated a deal
Year 2 is 120% of the prior year's contract or the FT whichever is higher, usually 120%.
Year 3 of the tag is when the tag is the average of the top 5 salaries at the highest position
I don't see them getting there, in fact I don't see them getting beyond year 1 if he's even tagged.
Its simple...either the Giants stop bull shitting and pay the man...or if they can't work out a deal trade JPP for picks immediately!!
What Reece should do is go to JPP and let him know its a business...and the Giants have an asset that they want to protect...and he realizes its a business but assure JPP that he will get paid and the Giants want him back...either the two sides come to a mutual agreement or they part ways and the Giants get picks...
Under no circumstances should JPP be allowed to leave for nothing!!
Between JPP and Hankins depending on who the Giants bring in they should get a comp pick if they lose one.
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I'd consider the franchise tag.
Name the last time a Franchise player signed a tender and left the team? Your not getting compensation.
Didn't Jared Allen and Matt Cassel get moved in such a scenario? I'm not sure of the draft pick compensation.
The tag and trade scenario is likely not happening as the team getting JPP will have to give up the picks and still have the privilege of paying a mega contract. So to offset the sting of paying such a contract, the draft pick compensation will be lesser than what the tag demands in the CBA.
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In comment 13323513 Patrick77 said:
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I'd consider the franchise tag.
Name the last time a Franchise player signed a tender and left the team? Your not getting compensation.
Didn't Jared Allen and Matt Cassel get moved in such a scenario? I'm not sure of the draft pick compensation.
The tag and trade scenario is likely not happening as the team getting JPP will have to give up the picks and still have the privilege of paying a mega contract. So to offset the sting of paying such a contract, the draft pick compensation will be lesser than what the tag demands in the CBA.
Cassel was traded with Mike Vrabel for a 2nd round pick.
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Otherwise one of these 70+million in cap teams will offer him the OV deal and we will not match it. At least we get some draft picks. Do it Cleveland!!! And if he refuses to sign an extension Day of the tag deadline pull the tag while still negotiating and hopefully the big cap teams spent a lot their money elsewhere and it helps get a better deal for the Giants. Tag him and offer him 4 years 60 million and guanrentee the first two years. He would be a fool to not sign it and sit out a whole year.
I Agee
IMO, JPP is due for a good move. Blows his hand off, says nobody does what he does with 7.5 fingers and just tore his groin (or whatever). He has security so will he sign a franchise tag (if applied) and risk losing more money if he gets injured again or play roulette and gamble for the big bucks?
Regardless, he's set for life already unless he wants to live like an idiot and blow it all. IMO, he's due for a smart move.
What he is due for is a payday from ESPN and Adam Schefter as well.
Its simple...either the Giants stop bull shitting and pay the man...or if they can't work out a deal trade JPP for picks immediately!!
What Reece should do is go to JPP and let him know its a business...and the Giants have an asset that they want to protect...and he realizes its a business but assure JPP that he will get paid and the Giants want him back...either the two sides come to a mutual agreement or they part ways and the Giants get picks...
Under no circumstances should JPP be allowed to leave for nothing!!
You can't trade him for a pick unless you tag him. He is a free agent. And I would disagree, he is not more valuable than our younger, high effort, talented, ascending DE, that played a whole season injured. With his age and injury history he should get a deal a bit larger than what Seattle gave Mike Bennett. He is not getting OV money, he should be lucky to get Malik Jackson money.
But my point was that the transition tag will keep things harmonious because it's not as oppressive as the transition tag. Yeah, it means no compensation for the Giants if he receives an offer the team is unwilling to match, but they could feel confident that it won't play out that way.
Even if the Giants pay JPP long term on a relatively friendly deal, everyone rejoices...but they will still be paying JPP a boatload more than the one year tag. I'd have no issues with it.
Almost any time it's used it's done so with the hopes of either buying time to work out a long-term deal or on a player who is old/at a unique position (kicker/punter) that a one-year deal makes the most sense.
when you consider the Giants would/could probably sign JPP for 5 - 6 years with say ~50M guaranteed.
Why would they want him for 1 year with 17M guaranteed. Just a bad investment most of the time.
unless they think he's only got a year left in the tank teams do not like players playing on the tag any more than players like it.
agree, if the Giants have injury concerns and do not desire JPP on a long-term deal due to the risk, then yeah, FT makes sense.
I just really mean it doesn't make good financial sense for a player you want to keep long-term.
If you have contractual options to a valuable asset you don't give them away.
i think they also need to re-sign hankins number 2 priority on the list then leon hall and keenan robinson plus prob zak deossie off the UFA list
wade seams to get burnt too often look for another CB is draft or FA over him but they do need another CB as injury issues have restricted all the CB's at some point all year
not sure about donnell if the deal was low enough keep him they do need his size if he can make better use of it than he has so far and thats on macadoo to fix TE should be a top 3 draft priority along with OT and OG this year unless there is a FA TE worth paying for but TE has to be addressed there was plenty of good ones on the market last year but they didnt seam to make an effort to sign any of them despite it being a huge hole on the team