Offensive Line
OT ( In No Order)
1) Andre Whitworth: 35 Years Old. Graded out this year as one of the top graded pass blocking LT by PFF (FWIW). Experienced player the Giants may consider if they decide to move Flowers to another position. Whitworth would allow the Giants to not force a draft pick at the LT position and/or draft and develop a LT without having to throw another rookie into the fire to protect Eli's blindside. Would come relatively cheap without much long term money on the books.
2) Matt Kalil: Probably considered a bust based on his draft status but he's played at lot of football. At 27 he's entering the prime of his career. Coming off an injury which could hurt his value on the free agent market. In this market he'll still be looking at a pretty nice contract offer due to his age and experience factor.
3) Riley Reiff: Another young veteran in his prime at age 28. More likely a fit at RT considering he was just bumped out of his LT spot by rookie Taylor Decker this past year in Detroit. Reiff is an average player.
Summary: It's not a great group but compared to the current tackle situation there are opportunities for improvement. The question will be how much better are these guys than Flowers/Hart when considering the salary likely needed to obtain them, particularly Khalil and Reiff. I love the idea of signing Whitworth and drafting an OT in the early rounds that can sit a year or two develop. He would be my choice of these three despite his age.
Offensive Guard:
1) Ronald Leary: I think we're all familiar with RL from the Cowboys. He's been part of one of the top units in the NFL for the last few years. Could play either Left or Right Guard. Would likely slide into the LG spot unless the Giants unexpectedly move Pugh to LT. Would cost a pretty penny.
2) TJ Lang: Another experienced guard that McAdoo should have some familiarity with from his time with the Packers. Would immediately upgrade over Jerry at RG.
3) Luke Joekel: An interesting option. High draft choice who failed as an OT. Only 25 and wouldn't have been drafted as high as he was if he didn't have the tool set to play. Moved to guard this year and most reports I've read was that improved there.
4) Chance Warmark: Similar to Joekel. Seen as a cant miss guard prospect Warmack has not lived up to the billing. Only 25.
Summary: I think Leary or one of the two young guys would be a good direction to go in with Leary being my top priority. If I were in the Giants shoes I'd be calling Whitworth and Leary to open free agency. Whitworth will only go to a team he thinks he can contend with and Leary resigning with the cowboys is almost guaranteed to not happen.
Move Flowers to RT and you go Whitworth, Pugh, Richburg, Leary, Flowers from Left to Right. Draft an OT in rounds 2-4 to develop behind Whitworth/Flowers. Hart is still in the mix as a backup T/G and I'd try to bring back Newhouse as well.
OL Free Agents - (
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He could be a stop gap LT for 2 to 3 years, or if they keep Flowers at LT, then he could definitely play RT. I think he would take a discount as well, since we have a shot at being really good the next few seasons.
2-Would you still trade a 3rd(4th) for a still in his prime but turning 32 year-old Joe Thomas who could give you another 3 or more years of potentially top notch production?
3-Would an injury prone(?) Kalil be worth the bucks he'd command?
That's a great question about Leary. Only our scouts will know. We don't have the game tape.
My guess Khalil is going to be pricier than what he's worth. That's why I like Whitworth.
Jon
Agreed but it seems unlikely these guys wont be resigned from what I read.
-Sign Whitworth (LT) and Sebastian Vollmer (RT) to 2 year deals
-Draft a Day 2 tackle such as Temple's Dion Dawkins, Troy's Antonio Garcia or Bucknell's Julie'n Davenport (could be a diamond in the rough) to develop and take over by the end of the decade.
It looks like the talent is at guard, and I'd focus there to replace Jerry.
This is the 2nd OL free agency write-up I've seen with no mention.
He's the best blocker on the market and he's a good fit here. If we are going Pugh/Flowers at G, we won't be signing him but if Flowers or Pugh is playing T next year, he is probably the #1 target.
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nothing about Ricky Wagner or Kevin Zeitler. Those are the two we should go after.
Jon
Agreed but it seems unlikely these guys wont be resigned from what I read.
The Bengals offered Zietler a contract extension prior to the start of the season and the two sides were unable to come to terms. See link.
It would probably take a a 5 year contract with $8-10 mil per year to sign Zeitler. He's worth it as he would plug right into the right guard spot and is excellent in both run blocking and pass protection.
Than I would trade for Joe Thomas and move Flowers to RT.
LT - Thomas
LG - Pugh
C - Richburg
RG - Zeitler
RT - Flowers
Link - ( New Window )
It seems to me either we upgrade the OL big time or maybe we need to look at moving on from Eli. Makes no sense to keep an aging quarterback behind a porous offensive line.
He could be a stop gap LT for 2 to 3 years, or if they keep Flowers at LT, then he could definitely play RT. I think he would take a discount as well, since we have a shot at being really good the next few seasons.
Excellent analysis. I'm also up for Whitworth. He is 35, and guys at that age do fall off quickly in many cases, but I'd be inclined to take the chance. Depending of course on the money. Move Flowers to LT. Get by at RT with Newhouse/Hart. I think Hart is only going to get better. Draft somebody on day two. I'd love to get Bolles, but I'm not sure he'll last to #23, and Reese has already spent two #1s, and a #2 on the OL.
They are unrestricted free agents.
In Wagner's case, the Ravens have 2 other young OTs they really like. They very well may feel spending on Wagner is an unwise allocation of resources.
With Zeitler - it's the Bengals. Most players can't wait to get the hell out of dodge. If they franchise him he's powerless, but they may not be able to prioritize RG either.
We have better need/position marriages to justify signing these guys to large deals.
It seems to me either we upgrade the OL big time or maybe we need to look at moving on from Eli. Makes no sense to keep an aging quarterback behind a porous offensive line.
It is worth the conversation. I don't agree with mortgaging the future but it could be argued. My take is Eli doesn't need a perfect OL but he does need trust. He lost that long ago which is why you see him rushing throws. Look at the NFC championship against SF. He took a beating but trusted his OL and hung in there. Look at this year. He rushed throws and dodged hits because he had no idea what was going to happen play to play. Amd it came from all angles too.
It's such a shame that we haven't seen much development from Flowers at LT. If anything, he played better last year on a bum ankle! When will the Giants make a decision to move Flowers? I suppose he'll need time to get acclimated to the right side and even learn a new position at Guard, if necessary and so, the sooner, the better.
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In comment 13323599 Jon in NYC said:
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nothing about Ricky Wagner or Kevin Zeitler. Those are the two we should go after.
Jon
Agreed but it seems unlikely these guys wont be resigned from what I read.
The Bengals offered Zietler a contract extension prior to the start of the season and the two sides were unable to come to terms. See link.
It would probably take a a 5 year contract with $8-10 mil per year to sign Zeitler. He's worth it as he would plug right into the right guard spot and is excellent in both run blocking and pass protection.
Than I would trade for Joe Thomas and move Flowers to RT.
LT - Thomas
LG - Pugh
C - Richburg
RG - Zeitler
RT - Flowers Link - ( New Window )
Your OL is similar to mine except substitute Leary for Zeitler. I'd rather have Zeitler but he's going to cost a ton. I'd rather get a cheaper Leary and have a better shot at retaining JPP and Hank. Thomas might be a pipe dream because he's likely going to require surrendering multiple draft picks. With needs all over on offense, I'd tend to believe the FO would prefer to keep our picks. Remember, aside from needing 2 spots on the OL, we are lacking big time at TE, WR2, and RB.
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In comment 13323602 Old Dirty Beckham said:
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In comment 13323599 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
nothing about Ricky Wagner or Kevin Zeitler. Those are the two we should go after.
Jon
Agreed but it seems unlikely these guys wont be resigned from what I read.
The Bengals offered Zietler a contract extension prior to the start of the season and the two sides were unable to come to terms. See link.
It would probably take a a 5 year contract with $8-10 mil per year to sign Zeitler. He's worth it as he would plug right into the right guard spot and is excellent in both run blocking and pass protection.
Than I would trade for Joe Thomas and move Flowers to RT.
LT - Thomas
LG - Pugh
C - Richburg
RG - Zeitler
RT - Flowers Link - ( New Window )
Your OL is similar to mine except substitute Leary for Zeitler. I'd rather have Zeitler but he's going to cost a ton. I'd rather get a cheaper Leary and have a better shot at retaining JPP and Hank. Thomas might be a pipe dream because he's likely going to require surrendering multiple draft picks. With needs all over on offense, I'd tend to believe the FO would prefer to keep our picks. Remember, aside from needing 2 spots on the OL, we are lacking big time at TE, WR2, and RB.
And, it's also not like the D doesn't need reinforcements at DT/DE (potentially) if either JPP or Hank do, at LB, and CB depth. This is why I don't think JR will be quick to part with draft picks, unless he dips into 2018's pool and beyond.
Can we not move that POS LT first round draft pick to RG and leave Bobby Hart at RT? And if we do get 2 OL in FA, to me the competition at RT is not a given that it goes to Flowers.
Hart will compete. I am so down I Flowers that I can't see straight, this guy is a bust!!!!
Sounds good to me. There are several permutations between the tackle and guard FAs that would get the job done.
Whitworth -- Pugh -- Richberg -- draft pick -- Flowers
There's a lot of contracts coming up over the next few years. I imagine the Giants don't want their hands tied because they overpaid for 2 FA OL.
They have to take the emotional pressure fans put on EF off, and at least give him some time away from the microscope he's under. His better position at this time is NOT LT. The only way he can stay there is a good running game so he drops back less, and with a good G, and TE they can disguise some of the weakness until he improves or they move him.
That all said, I agree with comments about fixing the G position, 1 if EF moves to G, or 2 if he plays either T position.Since I know 1 on a 100 scale about technique, schemes, systems, etc, then the WHO of that group is whomever.
Personally, I think any OL that lets us have a respected running game, makes our receiving core that much better(presuming they are also good pass blockers).
I think Flowers would be excellent at RG.
TJ Lang would be a huge pickup. He is a better fit than Leary as RG is Lang's natural position.
Anyway, I'd try to sign RT Byron Bell. He missed all of last season when he dislocated his ankle in the OTAs, but he was model of durability for the five years prior to that, and a solid, if not spectacular starter. Still only 27. He and Kevin Zeitler would work wonders on the right side of our O-Line.
I'd give Whitworth a 3 year deal with a 4th year option. If we want we can bring him back and if not the cap hit is spread out over 4 years instead of 3. Have him as the blindside blocker for the rest of Eli's career. I'd give Wagner a 5 year deal. In either 2018 or 2019 draft we can hopefully find a LT to groom behind Whitworth. With an Oline of Whitworth-Pugh-Richburg-Flowers-Wagner we should be able to get a good push in the run game especially if Perkins is our starter going into next year. Also it should help the pass game tremendously. We can actually run playaction passes. Those 5 would allow plenty of time for Odell, Shepard, Njoku and a new #2 WR to get open. In a perfect world our offense would look like this next year.
Whitworth-Pugh-Richburg-Flowers-Wagner-Njoku
ArDarius Stewart-Shepard-Odell
Eli-Perkins
Can't believe the amount of people suggesting we sign him.
At this point he's played his entire career in CIN - he's obviously the kind of guy that just wants to stay with his original team. He'll either be on the Bengals or nobody - and it's already a miracle he's still playing.
No thanks.
as long as newhouse leaves the roster entirely this year god knows how he was ever signed much less hung around this long
Pugh only played a few spot games at LT....doesn't mean he can play there...
So that means we used two first round picks on Tackles, who are not playing as tackles....
Richburg becomes a question mark, which he wasn't before the season started...
Thus, we need two Tackles, or a Tackle and guard....Guys like Jerry, Newhouse, and Hart are backup material, not starters....Eli does not have the time, to draft linemen for these positions and have them develop....free agency seems the way to go...but not with 35 year old LT's....