How much did the Giants miss Will Johnson this year?

run blocking was horrible and pass blocking was worse. I'd say he was greatly missed.

everytime I saw the TEs line up in the backfield. He was absence was one of the blocking issues.

at the word innovative used with Giants offense.

Then think about the impact Kuhn and Ripkowski have made on their offense, and you've got your answer.

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And can get OJ Howard in the draft. TE would go from a weakness to a strength. Especially with Adams going into his 2nd year and Matt LaCosse healthy.

Matellus Bennett again, or Vernon Davis.

We desperately need a real, NFL calibre TE. Even with Johnson on the roster and healthy. We'd still be one injury away from despair. Missing a big body who can bash some heads in the run game and threaten the seam kills us.

You can't really say that the team missed him.

Definitely not a 33 year old Vernon Davis.

Bennett is unlikely as he's already turned down an offer of 7 million a year. Doubt the Giants would offer more than that.

This is a draft with a lot of good TEs. We need to draft one and have a cost controlled TE for the next 4 or 5 years. OJ Howard, David Njoku, Jordan Leggett, Jake Butt, Bucky Hodges, Gerald Everett, Evan Engram & Cole Hikutini are all good players. I'd be targeting one of them. Preferably Howard or Njoku.

In comment 13324721 HBart said:

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Matellus Bennett again, or Vernon Davis. We desperately need a real, NFL calibre TE. Even with Johnson on the roster and healthy. We'd still be one injury away from despair. Missing a big body who can bash some heads in the run game and threaten the seam kills us.

MB will be 30, VD will be 33..Despite their ages, they will still want to get paid. What's a reasonable contract? Adams showed improvement and they appear to like him and his upside..Perhaps a vet TE who won't come at a high cost, who can still block, who can impact the seam to an acceptable degree, is the way to go along with a TE in the draft..

and a rookie and many are writing them off already

Is the guy I want the most. Another great TE prospect from Miami. He might be the best one since Shockey. Doesn't seem to have any attitude issues so he may be a better prospect. He's super athletic with great size at 6'4 245. Very very good receiver whose also shown the ability to be a good blocker. He's got Jimmy Graham type athleticism, but should end up being a WAY better blocker. Here is our own Sy'56 bowl game write up of Njoku.

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#86 TE David Njoku – 6’4/245 Third year sophomore that, if he comes out, will likely finish as my top overall TE in a talented group. He may end up with a higher grade than what I gave Hunter Henry a year ago. Njoku is a physical specimen that has shown dominant traits as a blocker and receiver. He gets up the seam as quick as anyone from the line, can make special moves after the catch combined with agility and power, and shows uncanny instincts when running option routes against zone coverage. He is a smart kid with a ceiling as high as any TE we have seen lately. 1st rounder on my board if he comes out.

The Giants will most likely be very interested as they were going to take Hunter Henry with the 40th pick last year had the Chargers not taken him. So let's hope the Giants feel Njoku is the answer the same way they thought Hunter Henry was. I'll be at the East West Shrine game this week and there are a ton NFL scouts attending. Will try to get some info on TEs from a few of the guys I know.

but his injury killed us, and I said so at the time. Watching him limp off the field with his arm dangling by his side was tough.

And the fact McAdoo didn't want another FB was the worst coaching move he made all season. In general teams use a FB about 30% of the time: that's 30% more preparation we would've forced opposing defenses to do.

As Mike Nolan pointed out on NFL Radio, he would've been salivating facing this Giants O because you could spend 3 days preparing for the 1 personnel package - and the handful of plays - we use. That's not going to get it done at this level, and we saw that all year. Teams with air tight gameplans executed to perfection, and us with no answer for 18 weeks running.

Never have I seen a team so unprepared to move the football.

As I stated in the post right above yours Martellus Bennett turned down 7 million a year from the Patriots at the start of this season. He's done nothing but gain value throughout the season. Most likely he is out of the Giants price range. We weren't willing to give him that kind of money as a 25 year old. Doubt we will at 30. With the way we've been targeting FAs recently I'd say Davis is completely out of the picture.

Oh and did you ever get everything all settle with those Giants shoes?

Look at the points New England put up this year. After Brady who was the best offensive player this year. Gronk missed really more than half the season.

In comment 13324743 Big Rick in FL said:

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As I stated in the post right above yours Martellus Bennett turned down 7 million a year from the Patriots at the start of this season. He's done nothing but gain value throughout the season. Most likely he is out of the Giants price range. We weren't willing to give him that kind of money as a 25 year old. Doubt we will at 30. With the way we've been targeting FAs recently I'd say Davis is completely out of the picture. Oh and did you ever get everything all settle with those Giants shoes?

Funny! Without seeing this post, I addressed these in the hankb draft thread..Lol

What is a burner?

Pittsburgh TE Scott Orndorff is on the East's roster. He's my sleeper TE pick...a mid-to-late rounder I'd like the Giants to draft if they don't tap a higher-ranked prospect earlier. I'd appreciate any info/opinions you can get on him.

Only Adams shows promise as a blocker out of the guys who played TE this year.

They need to upgrade their blocking and size on Offense period.

Unfortunately due to work I'm only gonna be able to get to the East practice on Monday. Which in the past has been a pretty light practice. I will definitely do my best to get you some kind of info on him as he's a player I was interested in myself. I'll also ask the few scouts that I know and see if I can get some opinions from them.

Adams is in his 2nd year, Johnson coming back, and you use the draft to add another, signing a free agent is a stupid way to use resources, especially for 2 overaged and over priced vets.

In comment 13324748 bc4life said:

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What is a burner?

Neck or shoulder injury. I've always hated the burner, because it can be something the guy shakes right off and plays through, or something that knocks him out for the season. Seems like there's no actual severity involved with the diagnosis (at least that's shared with fans).
http://www.aafp.org/afp/1999/1101/p2035.html - ( New Window )

In comment 13324773 PaulN said:

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Adams is in his 2nd year, Johnson coming back, and you use the draft to add another, signing a free agent is a stupid way to use resources, especially for 2 overaged and over priced vets.

I tend to side with my buddy Paul here..There has to be a vet TE out there that can give us a few solid years while Adams matures..

In comment 13324772 Big Rick in FL said:

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Unfortunately due to work I'm only gonna be able to get to the East practice on Monday. Which in the past has been a pretty light practice. I will definitely do my best to get you some kind of info on him as he's a player I was interested in myself. I'll also ask the few scouts that I know and see if I can get some opinions from them.

Cool. Thanks. My gut tells me that the Giants will not draft a TE early on, but you never know.

when your Johnson is injured.

would have been valuable for 6-10 plays per game. Even Brent Jones could have been as productive as Whitlock. Johnson's versatility could have made him much more valuable as a second TE and H-back. At least theoretically.

Not picking up a FB was the most obvious in-season personnel mistake. No reasonable explanation for that. We talk about a good defense making an offense one dimensional. The Giants did it to themselves by limiting their ability to run.

I think the complete opposite. I'd be very surprised if we don't draft a TE early. Especially if Howard or Njoku are there at 23. I've heard from people I know and a few on here who have inside info have said that if the Chargers didn't take Hunter Henry he would have been our pick at 40 last year over Sterling Shepard.

In comment 13324815 Big Rick in FL said:

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I think the complete opposite. I'd be very surprised if we don't draft a TE early. Especially if Howard or Njoku are there at 23. I've heard from people I know and a few on here who have inside info have said that if the Chargers didn't take Hunter Henry he would have been our pick at 40 last year over Sterling Shepard.

In 2012 I was certain the Giants wouldn't draft a RB in the 1st round, so there you go.

Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with them drafting a top-tier TE in the 1st, but I think it's more likely that they'll do what they usually do and look for a DE, WR, CB, or an OL. Just trying to read the tea leaves floating around in JR's cup.

... didn't seem to make any effort to replace this irreplaceable component of the offense. This never made any sense to me.

In comment 13324773 PaulN said:

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Adams is in his 2nd year, Johnson coming back, and you use the draft to add another, signing a free agent is a stupid way to use resources, especially for 2 overaged and over priced vets.

Right. Stupid use of resources to address the most glaring personnel need in the offense that completely changes the ability to vary the gameplan

Every young player is a complete crapshoot until they prove otherwise. We have an abundance of those at TE/FB

I didn't see any evidence that Tye improved.

used in the HB role were sufficient for this WCO and didn't see the need to replace Johnson's abilities in the O. Tye was ok at times in that role, however it needs to get a whole lot better for our running game to improve.

I'm in the Giants should daft a TE camp, as this is a very good draft for TEs and we've been severely lacking a TE threat on this team for years now. Such an important part of the offense, in both pass and running game. Reese can't think that what we have is adequate and there's no telling what Johnson could bring when healthy. I think Reese will go TE in the 1st or 2nd round this year. Adams may come along and so if he does, then we'll have 2 TEs that can help the offense. Think about that and all the possibilities?!

No he doesn't think what we have is adequate. That's why he was going to use the 40th pick last year on a TE.

In comment 13324742 area junc said:

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but his injury killed us, and I said so at the time.

You also said Anthony Davis was coming to NY, sooooo....

In comment 13324858 Big Rick in FL said:

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No he doesn't think what we have is adequate. That's why he was going to use the 40th pick last year on a TE.

😊

who could both pass and run block and who was a threat to catch the ball and attract the attention of a linebacker or strong safety and thus take him away from the LOS.

If Will Johnson could have done that, then we missed him-missed him a lot.

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Njoku vs Pitts - ( New Window )

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Freshman Highlights - ( New Window )

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Leggett - ( New Window )

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Butt - ( New Window )

if we wanted a fullback, we would have picked one up. Most of them are UDFA anyway.

we were so deep at TE, that we had H-back/FB talent to spare. All of the TE's disappointed at TE and at HB, too. So it was a matter of not assessing our talent very well.

I think Johnson was a big loss but I think it's almost becoming overstated at this point. WJ would have helped for sure. I don't think he would have moved the needle that much though.

Resources on a TE.
I think what you see is what you get.
At most they sign a low price veteran blocking TE.
I am interested in seeing Adams in year 2 and what Will Johnson brings to the table.
But Adams, Johnson,and tye are probably your 3

Where did you hear that the Giants would have taken Hunter with the 2nd pick? I never read that anywhere. I thought they had planned on Shepard with some teams having a 1st round value on him.

Also,I think done here are overstating Johnson's value. I don't think the Steelers made much if an effort to resign him and he was not expensive. I agree he would have helped but he's not this great pass catching run blocking TE he's been portrayed here. Guys who do both well are rare

In comment 13324743 Big Rick in FL said:

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As I stated in the post right above yours Martellus Bennett turned down 7 million a year from the Patriots at the start of this season. He's done nothing but gain value throughout the season. Most likely he is out of the Giants price range. We weren't willing to give him that kind of money as a 25 year old. Doubt we will at 30. With the way we've been targeting FAs recently I'd say Davis is completely out of the picture. Oh and did you ever get everything all settle with those Giants shoes?

Wasnt that we weren't willing. We simply didn't have the money.

In comment 13324990 larryflower37 said:

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Resources on a TE. I think what you see is what you get. At most they sign a low price veteran blocking TE. I am interested in seeing Adams in year 2 and what Will Johnson brings to the table. But Adams, Johnson,and tye are probably your 3

Then what was the drafting of Jeremy Shockey in the first round or the signing of Martellus Bennett or Brett Meyers. I think Reese has made some efforts. We need another playmaker on October and that position can really put the offense over the top.

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Then what was the drafting of Jeremy Shockey in the first round or the signing of Martellus Bennett or Brett Meyers. I think Reese has made some efforts. We need another playmaker on October and that position can really put the offense over the top.

Come on, Simms11, that strikes me as glib at best. Shockey was drafted by a different GM, different regime; MB they let walk after his one, very nice year here. and Meyers was an after-thought, bargain basement FA, for a reason, utter sucking dud. For the most part, TE has been a travesty under JR, you have to go back to '07 for Boss, 9 years, and Ballard, who they cut. Robinson, Beckum??

Reese's picks, in my view, overwhelmingly hit it big in year 1 or 2, and if not, they just plain suck. So, in that view, Adams either really shows it in '17, or not. Still very much an open question as to whether he's a kind of difference maker that does make a difference for this O.

In comment 13324949 HomerJones45 said:

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if we wanted a fullback, we would have picked one up. Most of them are UDFA anyway.

Maybe that was the problem. We wanted a fullback in the spring, signed one to two-year deal, and then when he was lost before the season began we said, Oh well, no biggie. Tactical error, in my opinion. I would have reached out to Marcel Reece, too.

Wanted to go after Reece.

Looking forward to seeing if Johnson is any help.

when did this happen?

Th topic was Will Johnson (a fullback); all-of-a-sudden we're talking tight ends ....

Fullbacks are stumpy looking, 3/4 sized offensive linemen whose run blocking assignment is to knock people on their ass. Pass protection-wise is to get blitzing linebackers from shooting the "A" gaps and harassing your QB ...

(if you can get some pass receptions and running out of them, it's a residual plus)

Tight ends, we all know what they do.

Back to the original question - YES, we missed not a good fullback (the Packers' fullback, Aaron Ripkowski wore us out in the first game, and he did the 2nd, as well.)