How many years have we been saying "imagine if we had a defense to go with this offense!" Well this past offseason the front office finally deliveries and gives the Giants what they needed unfortunately a year too late to save Coughlin!
I as many here on BBI were pumped that the defense was reloaded!! The defense paired with this offense!!! plus Cruz is back!! I was very optimistic. Well we all know what happened. The offense regressed!! I believe had the Giants retained Coughlin he would have brought us to the promised land for a third time. Although we did have a good year, had the offense held their end of the bargain we'd be celebrating in Feb!! Another long offseason... only silver lining is beating the cowboys twice!!!
Make of that what you will.
He had the same offensive line last year, when we were 6th in the NFL in scoring.
And no, it was not in garbage time either. We had the lead or were tied with two minutes left in 6 of our 10 losses.
Then there is closing out the games. We don't know how he would have faired there, but McAdoo cerainly fixed that aspect of the game.
Also does everyone forget how bad we used to lose? I mean how many blowouts did we have when we had talent on defense over the past 4 years?
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With this OLine? Yeah, okay..
He had the same offensive line last year, when we were 6th in the NFL in scoring.
And no, it was not in garbage time either. We had the lead or were tied with two minutes left in 6 of our 10 losses.
That doesn't mean anything. That was last year.
Then there is closing out the games. We don't know how he would have faired there, but McAdoo cerainly fixed that aspect of the game.
Also does everyone forget how bad we used to lose? I mean how many blowouts did we have when we had talent on defense over the past 4 years?
Your last paragraph is spot on. Some folks act like we were a very good team under TC his last 4 seasons he was here for, when we were anything but.
Make of that what you will.
Would a quality coach with twenty season under his belt possibly have done better than a rookie coach? Sure but that isn't the question. The OP said we would have won it all with TC and I think one has to assume a lot to believe that is a given.
I think you and I are on the same page as far as TC, but as you said it's all a moot point anyways and McAdoo is the Giants future at this point.
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In comment 13325269 Dave in Hoboken said:
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With this OLine? Yeah, okay..
He had the same offensive line last year, when we were 6th in the NFL in scoring.
And no, it was not in garbage time either. We had the lead or were tied with two minutes left in 6 of our 10 losses.
That doesn't mean anything. That was last year.
I guess. What's the only change from last year to this year on offense? Coughlin and Randle gone. We dropped from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th. We only scored under 20 points last year 3 times. This year, we scored under 20 points 10 times. We scored 30 points or more 7 times last year. None this year.
You think Randle was the x-factor?
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In comment 13325272 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13325269 Dave in Hoboken said:
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With this OLine? Yeah, okay..
He had the same offensive line last year, when we were 6th in the NFL in scoring.
And no, it was not in garbage time either. We had the lead or were tied with two minutes left in 6 of our 10 losses.
That doesn't mean anything. That was last year.
I guess. What's the only change from last year to this year on offense? Coughlin and Randle gone. We dropped from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th. We only scored under 20 points last year 3 times. This year, we scored under 20 points 10 times. We scored 30 points or more 7 times last year. None this year.
You think Randle was the x-factor?
I'm just saying to assume we would 'win it all' this year simply because TC would be here is assuming alot. The offense and defense basically switched roles from this last year to this year. Who knows if the defense is as great as it is if TC is here. TC was also here from 2012-2015 when the team went 6-10 twice and 7-9 once.
Yeah, but 6th in the NFL to 26th in the NFL difference?
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In comment 13325272 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13325269 Dave in Hoboken said:
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With this OLine? Yeah, okay..
He had the same offensive line last year, when we were 6th in the NFL in scoring.
And no, it was not in garbage time either. We had the lead or were tied with two minutes left in 6 of our 10 losses.
That doesn't mean anything. That was last year.
I guess. What's the only change from last year to this year on offense? Coughlin and Randle gone. We dropped from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th. We only scored under 20 points last year 3 times. This year, we scored under 20 points 10 times. We scored 30 points or more 7 times last year. None this year.
You think Randle was the x-factor?
We didn't have to play from behind all the time. We had to score allot. We faced more blitzes last year since we got behind the score and defenses played a little less conservatively against us because they could risk it. How this escapes people is mind blowing around here.
Maybe. But that's not really saying much since TC has been coaching forever and this is McAdoo's first season ever as a head coach. And in his first season as a head coach, he brought a team that went 6-10 the two seasons previous to an 11-5 playoff team.
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In comment 13325284 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 13325272 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13325269 Dave in Hoboken said:
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With this OLine? Yeah, okay..
He had the same offensive line last year, when we were 6th in the NFL in scoring.
And no, it was not in garbage time either. We had the lead or were tied with two minutes left in 6 of our 10 losses.
That doesn't mean anything. That was last year.
I guess. What's the only change from last year to this year on offense? Coughlin and Randle gone. We dropped from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th. We only scored under 20 points last year 3 times. This year, we scored under 20 points 10 times. We scored 30 points or more 7 times last year. None this year.
You think Randle was the x-factor?
We didn't have to play from behind all the time. We had to score allot. We faced more blitzes last year since we got behind the score and defenses played a little less conservatively against us because they could risk it. How this escapes people is mind blowing around here.
We lost 6 games that we held the lead or were tied with under 2 minutes due to the defense folding.
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I think he would have been an upgrade over Cruz this season
Yeah, but 6th in the NFL to 26th in the NFL difference?
See my fist reply to your first post.
I don't disagree with the premises that if TC has been the HC this season they wouldn't have been better. I just take exception that it is a given the Giants win the Super Bowl had he been.
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but I believe we would be in better position to win it all with Coughlin at the helm.
Maybe. But that's not really saying much since TC has been coaching forever and this is McAdoo's first season ever as a head coach. And in his first season as a head coach, he brought a team that went 6-10 the two seasons previous to an 11-5 playoff team.
The defense did that. The defense got them to 11-5. Both Tom Coughlin and McAdoo are offensive coaches.
200 Million spent on defense this offseason. Who hire Spagnolo?
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In comment 13325296 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13325284 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 13325272 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13325269 Dave in Hoboken said:
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With this OLine? Yeah, okay..
He had the same offensive line last year, when we were 6th in the NFL in scoring.
And no, it was not in garbage time either. We had the lead or were tied with two minutes left in 6 of our 10 losses.
That doesn't mean anything. That was last year.
I guess. What's the only change from last year to this year on offense? Coughlin and Randle gone. We dropped from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th. We only scored under 20 points last year 3 times. This year, we scored under 20 points 10 times. We scored 30 points or more 7 times last year. None this year.
You think Randle was the x-factor?
We didn't have to play from behind all the time. We had to score allot. We faced more blitzes last year since we got behind the score and defenses played a little less conservatively against us because they could risk it. How this escapes people is mind blowing around here.
We lost 6 games that we held the lead or were tied with under 2 minutes due to the defense folding.
I'm talking about the offense. Why they scored more then last year.
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In comment 13325297 Britt in VA said:
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but I believe we would be in better position to win it all with Coughlin at the helm.
Maybe. But that's not really saying much since TC has been coaching forever and this is McAdoo's first season ever as a head coach. And in his first season as a head coach, he brought a team that went 6-10 the two seasons previous to an 11-5 playoff team.
The defense did that. The defense got them to 11-5. Both Tom Coughlin and McAdoo are offensive coaches.
200 Million spent on defense this offseason. Who hire Spagnolo?
The offense contributed, too. Sure, the defense was one of the best units in all of football. I think considering the performance of the OLine, the WRs not named Beckham (and to a certain extent Sherpherd), and the QB, McAdoo did as well as he could. McAdoo did a pretty good job as rookie head coach. He brought a team that was under .500 for the past 3 seasons with TC as a head coach, to a well above .500 team that went to the post-season in his first season as a head coach.
Because IMO, he knew he had shit for D and tried to win with the O. Same as in the Jets and Pats games. He knew he couldn't count on any stops from his D, and he was right.
I don't know how they would've fared with him this year, but if last year's team had this D, there's no question in my mind he plays it differently late in those games. They for sure would've been much better than six wins. No way does NO drop a 50 spot on them either.
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In comment 13325302 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 13325297 Britt in VA said:
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but I believe we would be in better position to win it all with Coughlin at the helm.
Maybe. But that's not really saying much since TC has been coaching forever and this is McAdoo's first season ever as a head coach. And in his first season as a head coach, he brought a team that went 6-10 the two seasons previous to an 11-5 playoff team.
The defense did that. The defense got them to 11-5. Both Tom Coughlin and McAdoo are offensive coaches.
200 Million spent on defense this offseason. Who hire Spagnolo?
The offense contributed, too. Sure, the defense was one of the best units in all of football. I think considering the performance of the OLine, the WRs not named Beckham (and to a certain extent Sherpherd), and the QB, McAdoo did as well as he could. McAdoo did a pretty good job as rookie head coach. He brought a team that was under .500 for the past 3 seasons with TC as a head coach, to a well above .500 team that went to the post-season in his first season as a head coach.
My question is, do you think Coughlin would have done worse with that defense?
Hopefully the offense improves, but I feel he has a good pulse of the team and the players love him.
Much as TC's sharpness was declining, I think Spags defense would have been equally good, and our offense with McAdoo as full-time OC would have been better. And with TC I don't think we would have been without a FB/blocker all season.
We might have been only 10-6, but I think we would have played better against the Pack.
Haha, Spags was forced on him? This conversation is not worth continuing.
Much as TC's sharpness was declining, I think Spags defense would have been equally good, and our offense with McAdoo as full-time OC would have been better. And with TC I don't think we would have been without a FB/blocker all season.
We might have been only 10-6, but I think we would have played better against the Pack.
Agreed.
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In comment 13325305 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13325302 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 13325297 Britt in VA said:
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but I believe we would be in better position to win it all with Coughlin at the helm.
Maybe. But that's not really saying much since TC has been coaching forever and this is McAdoo's first season ever as a head coach. And in his first season as a head coach, he brought a team that went 6-10 the two seasons previous to an 11-5 playoff team.
The defense did that. The defense got them to 11-5. Both Tom Coughlin and McAdoo are offensive coaches.
200 Million spent on defense this offseason. Who hire Spagnolo?
The offense contributed, too. Sure, the defense was one of the best units in all of football. I think considering the performance of the OLine, the WRs not named Beckham (and to a certain extent Sherpherd), and the QB, McAdoo did as well as he could. McAdoo did a pretty good job as rookie head coach. He brought a team that was under .500 for the past 3 seasons with TC as a head coach, to a well above .500 team that went to the post-season in his first season as a head coach.
My question is, do you think Coughlin would have done worse with that defense?
Not 100% sure. TC was a very good coach, but he was far from infalliable. We saw some awful blowouts and mistakes under his watch over the years.
And I would hope TC would do better than a rookie head-coach. The fact that no one else felt compelled to hire him as a head coach should say something, as well.
The fact that no one else felt compelled to hire him as a head coach should say something, as well.
The fact that a team doesn't want to start over with a "new" coach that is 70 isn't really an indicator of anything.
Right now Macadoo just doesn't quite have the team in his hand as Coughlin did.
I'm pretty GD tired of people comparing a shitty team with a revamped team and laying it on the coach.
Fkn John Mara, this asshole Tisch and JR should be freakin horsewhipped for the shit they pulled on Coughlin. It sucked!!@! and this "Walk on water" franchise is a money making machine. When Mrs Mara died these guys really fucked up cause she could call a spade a fuckin' shovel!! And she let 'em know it when they were screwing around!
So say what you want about Macadoo He probably will be a good coach but compared to Coughlin, right now he's grape juice compared to vintage wine.
That's not opinion that's hard fact!
Tom got more out of less than any coach you can think of.
McAdoo completely adapted his style to the strength of the team, resulting in 11 wins. I'm not so sure Coughlin gets 11 wins out of this group, let alone wins a title.
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Perry was Toms guy and he was forced to ouch him out.
Haha, Spags was forced on him? This conversation is not worth continuing.
He did it to save his job once again. He almost rehired Fewell. He did a 180 after he had a meeting with Mara and Reese. That is well documented around here.
McAdoo completely adapted his style to the strength of the team, resulting in 11 wins. I'm not so sure Coughlin gets 11 wins out of this group, let alone wins a title.
And of all the years TC was here, they went 11-5 or better twice. And both of those seasons were many moons ago (2005 and 2008).
...but zero chance with this offensive line.
A chronic team weakness is usually exposed badly in the playoffs, and that's exactly what you saw with this Giants team -- a poor, inadequate offense vulnerable behind a sieve of an O-line.
Coughlin would not have overcome this deficiency.
So... for the umpteenth time, this Giants team made a big stride forward in 2016, but there was NO WAY they were going to do any damage in the playoffs with a lousy offense.
Buy, acquire, steal or draft at least two high-performing O-linemen and one TE and wait till next year!
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It amazes me how people overlook the job McAdoo did this season.
McAdoo completely adapted his style to the strength of the team, resulting in 11 wins. I'm not so sure Coughlin gets 11 wins out of this group, let alone wins a title.
And of all the years TC was here, they went 11-5 or better twice. And both of those seasons were many moons ago (2005 and 2008).
We would have lost because Newhouse would have been right back into the starting lineup when he was healthy and we would have surely lost a game somewhere because of it.
Honestly do we think Apple would have started on the outside the entire season or would it have been DRC on the outside and Apple in the slot. Coughlin loved Vets.
2013: 7-9
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
22-34 since the 6-2 mark in 2012.
Coughlin was treated VERY fairly & we should all be excited about McAdoo going forward.
The game passed him by and 31 other NFL teams agree. I love Coughlin. He was the coach of the Giants for almost half my life. He's the only coach I really remember and he will always have a special place in my heart, but he had to go.
Just be excited about McAdoo. He had a very very young team with no RB, TE, WR2 or Oline and won 11 games as a rookie HC. Most people thought it was going to take between 2 and 3 years to become a good team again. McAdoo completely changed that. We have a ton of young studs with a lot of can space. We are going to be legit Super Bowl contenders soon enough.
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In comment 13325330 Danny Kanell said:
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It amazes me how people overlook the job McAdoo did this season.
McAdoo completely adapted his style to the strength of the team, resulting in 11 wins. I'm not so sure Coughlin gets 11 wins out of this group, let alone wins a title.
And of all the years TC was here, they went 11-5 or better twice. And both of those seasons were many moons ago (2005 and 2008).
We would have lost because Newhouse would have been right back into the starting lineup when he was healthy and we would have surely lost a game somewhere because of it.
Honestly do we think Apple would have started on the outside the entire season or would it have been DRC on the outside and Apple in the slot. Coughlin loved Vets.
Coughlin played rookies when they warranted it. No reason to assume Apple wouldn't have seen as much time. For that matter I'm guessing Spags had/has a lot of input into the defensive units and playing time with both Coughlin and McAdoo.
What the hell have you been watching all these years? The Pop Warner league.
Coughlin is a better man at 70 than most of you guys at 50.
you kids talk about age like you've experienced it and you KNOW the difference between age and youth.
I'm 89 and you kids mix up the failure of the body with the failure of the mind.
Not even close
Reminds me of the time the two bulls standing on the top of hill looking down at a herd of cows.
The young bull says to the older bull "let's run down there and screw a cow"
The old bull said ," Why don't we walk down and screw them all?"
That's the difference between your thinking of Macadoo and my KNOWING the type of thoughts of Coughlin.
Dang, teach 'em how to read n write and they think they know EVERYTHING!!
To your point with all due respect, and maybe I missed it but I didn't see Coughlin's age being brought up as a reason for any perceived lack of ability. At least as I read it wasn't the prominent point of the discussion, and to agree with you nor should it be.
Thanks for posting. I appreciate for your input and perspective, and for sharing the joke.
The offense was hamstrung by a bad line, a complete lack of a running game, miserable tight ends, and no depth at receiver. While having McAdoo able to focus on just the offense might have helped a bit, the talent to go further just wasn't there this year.
Giants management saw the same things quite a few posters here saw, myself included and they decided to retire Tom.
Sorry the staff did not agree with your opinion on Coughlin, RELICDOA. Good day, sir.
PC correct Reese? You should clarify that. It looks like a dumb statement on paper, you should own it.
What the hell have you been watching all these years? The Pop Warner league.
Coughlin is a better man at 70 than most of you guys at 50.
you kids talk about age like you've experienced it and you KNOW the difference between age and youth.
I'm 89 and you kids mix up the failure of the body with the failure of the mind.
Not even close
Reminds me of the time the two bulls standing on the top of hill looking down at a herd of cows.
The young bull says to the older bull "let's run down there and screw a cow"
The old bull said ," Why don't we walk down and screw them all?"
That's the difference between your thinking of Macadoo and my KNOWING the type of thoughts of Coughlin.
Dang, teach 'em how to read n write and they think they know EVERYTHING!!
You're completely underestimating how demanding the job is.
Bed he made? More like playing with the shitty hand he was dealt.
I think you're totally overlooking the lack of talent on those teams, shitty drafts and not much help from Reese in free agency.
How do you think TC would've done last year with this D? Or even more realistically, if Reese spent some money just as wisely to upgrade the talent on that side of the ball in the past couple of years?
I think comparing these two coaches is apples to oranges. They didn't have near the same rosters. Had TC only gotten 6 wins out of this team and Ben got to 11 the next year, with the same roster, then it would be a fair comparison. The talent level on this team compared to his last three isn't even close.
I don't think it's coincidence that the past couple of drafts have been considerably improved. I highly doubt it was just Reese 'working really hard to avoid getting fired' (or whatever nonsense people spin it as).
Coughlin had a hall of fame caliber QB and for how many seasons in a row could not make the playoffs?
It's over. Move on. The original post is just stupid.
I don't think it's coincidence that the past couple of drafts have been considerably improved. I highly doubt it was just Reese 'working really hard to avoid getting fired' (or whatever nonsense people spin it as).
I think there is a lot of truth to this.
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TC is no doubt HOF worthy, but if some of you were Dallas fans, you'd totally overlook Tom Landry did not do a good job coaching towards the end. At what point is Coughlin actually responsible for the bed he made? Body of work was flat out awful the last 3 years.
Bed he made? More like playing with the shitty hand he was dealt.
I think you're totally overlooking the lack of talent on those teams, shitty drafts and not much help from Reese in free agency.
How do you think TC would've done last year with this D? Or even more realistically, if Reese spent some money just as wisely to upgrade the talent on that side of the ball in the past couple of years?
I think comparing these two coaches is apples to oranges. They didn't have near the same rosters. Had TC only gotten 6 wins out of this team and Ben got to 11 the next year, with the same roster, then it would be a fair comparison. The talent level on this team compared to his last three isn't even close.
We had talent over the past 3 to 4 years. Allot of that talent got hurt which fell on the Strength and Conditioning coach that was hired and employeed by Coughlin. Yet, year in and year out were in the tops of the league for games due to injury.
Benny Mac changed the Strength Coach and we had far less major injuries this year due to it.
Even without that Perr Fewell had defenses with talent on it, but he never could put it all together and it will always baffle me how we did it in 2011 because the defense was absolutely dreadful for the majority of that season.
laugh out loud funny.
Jennings lost a step, Vereen was a big factor last season, Schwartz was a better player.
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In comment 13325296 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13325284 Dave in Hoboken said:
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In comment 13325272 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 13325269 Dave in Hoboken said:
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With this OLine? Yeah, okay..
He had the same offensive line last year, when we were 6th in the NFL in scoring.
And no, it was not in garbage time either. We had the lead or were tied with two minutes left in 6 of our 10 losses.
That doesn't mean anything. That was last year.
I guess. What's the only change from last year to this year on offense? Coughlin and Randle gone. We dropped from 6th in the NFL in scoring to 26th. We only scored under 20 points last year 3 times. This year, we scored under 20 points 10 times. We scored 30 points or more 7 times last year. None this year.
You think Randle was the x-factor?
We didn't have to play from behind all the time. We had to score allot. We faced more blitzes last year since we got behind the score and defenses played a little less conservatively against us because they could risk it. How this escapes people is mind blowing around here.
We lost 6 games that we held the lead or were tied with under 2 minutes due to the defense folding.
Ok so what is your excuse for the giants being 22-33 since week 9 of 2012?.it was not just about last season why TC was let go.
Give me your reasons why TC was missed? Our defense shut rodgers down for most of the first half, its more like DRC was missed last week not COUGHLIN
2013: 7-9
2014: 6-10
2015: 6-10
22-34 since the 6-2 mark in 2012.
Coughlin was treated VERY fairly & we should all be excited about McAdoo going forward.
Wish I read this before I posted these same things. Sorry Sean, great post. Exactly what Ibe been saying also
I'm a huge TC guy and I think he got put through the grinder for a front office that lost its way. He was a year short of seeing the $200 million payoff on defense.
That said, I don't know if the S&C change is made under his watch. It's possible if not likely that it had a lot to do with our good injury fortunes this year.
How many times has Coughlin even gone 11-5 or better all his years here??
Exactly
He wins no more than 8 games with this team
Check his 2nd half of the season records.
Also, how many starters would've been out for the year under Coughlin with the same SC coach and regiment?
Right now Macadoo just doesn't quite have the team in his hand as Coughlin did.
I'm pretty GD tired of people comparing a shitty team with a revamped team and laying it on the coach.
Fkn John Mara, this asshole Tisch and JR should be freakin horsewhipped for the shit they pulled on Coughlin. It sucked!!@! and this "Walk on water" franchise is a money making machine. When Mrs Mara died these guys really fucked up cause she could call a spade a fuckin' shovel!! And she let 'em know it when they were screwing around!
So say what you want about Macadoo He probably will be a good coach but compared to Coughlin, right now he's grape juice compared to vintage wine.
That's not opinion that's hard fact!
Tom got more out of less than any coach you can think of.
2009 2010 2012 what your excuse for those years he failed to make the playoffs with good teams
I don't think it's coincidence that the past couple of drafts have been considerably improved. I highly doubt it was just Reese 'working really hard to avoid getting fired' (or whatever nonsense people spin it as).
Right now Macadoo just doesn't quite have the team in his hand as Coughlin did.
I'm pretty GD tired of people comparing a shitty team with a revamped team and laying it on the coach.
Fkn John Mara, this asshole Tisch and JR should be freakin horsewhipped for the shit they pulled on Coughlin. It sucked!!@! and this "Walk on water" franchise is a money making machine. When Mrs Mara died these guys really fucked up cause she could call a spade a fuckin' shovel!! And she let 'em know it when they were screwing around!
So say what you want about Macadoo He probably will be a good coach but compared to Coughlin, right now he's grape juice compared to vintage wine.
That's not opinion that's hard fact!
Tom got more out of less than any coach you can think of.
Coughlin never finished better than 5-3 in the 2nd half of seasons during his entire tenure as NYG HC.
Dallas
New Orleans
New England
Jets
Right off the top of my head.
All games they should have won.
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on the same page, and that was negatively impacting the draft and FA.
I don't think it's coincidence that the past couple of drafts have been considerably improved. I highly doubt it was just Reese 'working really hard to avoid getting fired' (or whatever nonsense people spin it as).
jcn56, you're usually a precise and articulate composer, but I can't begin to parse and make sense out of this caption and post. The top line (not convinced they were at odds on drafting philosophy (taking out the double negative), yet no coincidence the past two drafts improved, and why is that (and it's not because Reese decided to take his job seriously again). Just can't figure out your thrust.
Pretty simple really, just reverse what my phone did and substitute 'now' for 'not'.
Reese's talent acquisition skills went way up the past two years. Even without the big ticket FAs. I'm left with the impression that the boys weren't playing along any more, and someone had to go.
"McAdoo is an offensive coach" is bad analysis. He's the head coach of a team with a couple significant flaws. He recognized those flaws and achieved a record that in his first season that Coughlin did only twice in 12 seasons.
The McAdoo criticism is, frankly, stupid.
Reese's talent acquisition skills went way up the past two years. Even without the big ticket FAs. I'm left with the impression that the boys weren't playing along any more, and someone had to go.
If we can agree his recent FA's & drafts are quite a bit better than pre-2014:
I'm pretty sure it was Reese's overall player philosophy that changed. We no longer see athletic players with little football production selected/purchased. We get productive guys, team captains, faster players, etc.
One exception is when Reese tried to sign O'Brien Schofield. Someone must have talked to Jerry before OS's medical exam.
"McAdoo is an offensive coach" is bad analysis. He's the head coach of a team with a couple significant flaws. He recognized those flaws and achieved a record that in his first season that Coughlin did only twice in 12 seasons.
The McAdoo criticism is, frankly, stupid.
Why would the Giants be unable to win in the last possession with Coughlin?
You win 11 games you did something right no doubt. But, this was one season, one that actually ended on down note with a playoff loss where the Giants played sloppy and could not hang for four quarters.
England season this year was a big success, but I do not see why TC could not have done the same or better.
Playoff game preparation he deserves an F. Again, one game a small sample size as is one season.
I like McAdoo so far, but I disagree that there is four five wins a better coach than Coughlin based on one season.
Defense was the story of this season though, McAdoo realized this was a strength and played towards it, but that unit is the main reason the team won 11 games.
All things end, and there were nothing wrong with that occurring for TC last year.
But hey, lets keep this nostalgia nonsense going every month....
What did mcadoo do that coughlin wouldnt have?
Defense was the story of this season though, McAdoo realized this was a strength and played towards it, but that unit is the main reason the team won 11 games.
How exactly did BM do a "bad job preparing for the playoff game"?
Did you even watch the game?
As we know lack of injuries was a big reason the D was effective and efficient This year.
As we know lack of injuries was a big reason the D was effective and efficient This year.
I think 200 million was a big reason the D was effective and efficient.
Oh, and didn't we lose JPP for the last quarter of the season to injury?
Didn't we lose Vereen for nearly the whole season to injury? Didn't Pugh miss like 8 games?
But yeah...
"McAdoo is an offensive coach" is bad analysis. He's the head coach of a team with a couple significant flaws. He recognized those flaws and achieved a record that in his first season that Coughlin did only twice in 12 seasons.
The McAdoo criticism is, frankly, stupid.
I agree, McAdoo is a head coach not an "offensive guy". Claiming otherwise is as stupid as saying Coughlin would have only won 7 games with this defense
Why some people act like vampires being doused with holy water when a Giants fan waxes poetic that just maybe Coughlin could have performed the same or better than McAdoo this year with the defensive upgrade is strange to say the least.
"Look! McAdoo solved the injury problem by changing coaches (false, because some of our main weapons/starters missed significant time due to injury: JPP, Pugh, Vereen...)"
The offensive line regressed. McAdoo changed coaches there, too. By the logic above, if he solved the injury problem, did he make the offensive line problem worse? I don't believe that personally, but that's applying the same logic that a lot of posters present on threads like this.
Look, bottom line. McAdoo was hired because he was going to provide continuity on offense in Eli's final years. Yes, or no? The defensive scheme and coaching was left alone, and the defense was what put us at 11-5. Anybody that denies that is delusional. The offense let us down this year. And the Coughlin and McAdoo combination last year did much more with less than what this offense has.
This is a discussion board. We can discuss this. It doesn't mean that people don't like, or support McAdoo, okay? Obviously we all want him to succeed. But it's okay to point out that the offense, which has been the strength of this team for years, regressed majorly under his watch. From 6th in scoring to 26th in scoring is a massive drop. So when you consider that he was hired to provide continuity on offense, that is why people wonder what Coughlin's presence on this team, this year, would have provided.
It's not outrageous as some of you make it out to be. For the stat lovers out there, it's all right there. Did we improve anywhere on offense this year? Scoring was worse, passing was worse, rushing was worse.
Why some people act like vampires being doused with holy water when a Giants fan waxes poetic that just maybe Coughlin could have performed the same or better than McAdoo this year with the defensive upgrade is strange to say the least.
"Look! McAdoo solved the injury problem by changing coaches (false, because some of our main weapons/starters missed significant time due to injury: JPP, Pugh, Vereen...)"
The offensive line regressed. McAdoo changed coaches there, too. By the logic above, if he solved the injury problem, did he make the offensive line problem worse? I don't believe that personally, but that's applying the same logic that a lot of posters present on threads like this.
Look, bottom line. McAdoo was hired because he was going to provide continuity on offense in Eli's final years. Yes, or no? The defensive scheme and coaching was left alone, and the defense was what put us at 11-5. Anybody that denies that is delusional. The offense let us down this year. And the Coughlin and McAdoo combination last year did much more with less than what this offense has.
This is a discussion board. We can discuss this. It doesn't mean that people don't like, or support McAdoo, okay? Obviously we all want him to succeed. But it's okay to point out that the offense, which has been the strength of this team for years, regressed majorly under his watch. From 6th in scoring to 26th in scoring is a massive drop. So when you consider that he was hired to provide continuity on offense, that is why people wonder what Coughlin's presence on this team, this year, would have provided.
It's not outrageous as some of you make it out to be. For the stat lovers out there, it's all right there. Did we improve anywhere on offense this year? Scoring was worse, passing was worse, rushing was worse.
Britt- You are a respected poster here, I enjoy reading your posts. But, when Coughlin's name comes up, you go into 16 year old girl mode.
Let it go.
Joe, not really. Think about it. TC was here since 2004, that's 12 seasons. He'll be in Canton soon for his achievements. It's hard not to like and respect the kindly old father figure.
No one knows how many games TC would have won with this exact team. It's all just guessing. What isn't a guess is that the N.Y. Football Giants owners and staff knew Tom's time was up so they retired him.
The posters who really believe TC would have done a better job are just denying to themselves that the 2013-2015 seasons were ultimately TC's responsibility.
McAdoo coached to the teams strengths brilliantly. He knew this was a defensive roster and his coaching helped the team win many close games.
Britt- again, you came out praising McAdoo after the WSH win, yet one week later you are wishing we still had a 70 year old TC who came off 4 straight non-playoff seasons.
As for last week, the offensive game plan was excellent. The Giants dominated early & if it wasn't for some dropped balls, it could have been 14-0.
Lastly, I do think it isn't unreasonable to think there was a disconnect with talent evaluation between JR & TC. It's only one year, but it does feel like everyone is on the same page.
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not England season. Regular season well done, bad job preparing for playoff game.
Defense was the story of this season though, McAdoo realized this was a strength and played towards it, but that unit is the main reason the team won 11 games.
How exactly did BM do a "bad job preparing for the playoff game"?
Did you even watch the game?
Yes
and I will say again I actually like McAdoo and 11 wins means you are doing something right. Those I think most teams with some talent usually get a bump for one season with a new coach.
The Giants played what might have been their worst team game of the season when it mattered most. There were mental and physical errors on specials, drops etc.
I think this reflects on the coach. Tall order to prepare a team for a big road playoff battle. We had a coach who was the best at that.
This is a small sample size though, and I like McAdoo, just like one season is too few to ordain him better than TC.
McAdoo coached to the teams strengths brilliantly. He knew this was a defensive roster and his coaching helped the team win many close games.
Britt- again, you came out praising McAdoo after the WSH win, yet one week later you are wishing we still had a 70 year old TC who came off 4 straight non-playoff seasons.
As for last week, the offensive game plan was excellent. The Giants dominated early & if it wasn't for some dropped balls, it could have been 14-0.
Lastly, I do think it isn't unreasonable to think there was a disconnect with talent evaluation between JR & TC. It's only one year, but it does feel like everyone is on the same page.
I praised McAdoo because I thought McAdoo showed a lot of guts playing to win against the Redskins and I still do. I like that about him.
But my complaint with him has been the same as it has all year, as outlined above. No offense. Our offensive scoring was terrible. We didn't score over 20 points 6 games in a row to end the season. That's not going to get it done in today's NFL. It's just not. Our offense was painful to watch this year.
How can you say he's not an offensive guy? He calls the plays on offense. Yeah, he's the head coach too and responsible for all that. That's why I praised him for his head coaching decision against the Redskins.
But to claim McAdoo isn't an "offensive guy" when he designed the offense and calls the plays on offense is very strange logic to me.
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In comment 13325712 rocco8112 said:
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not England season. Regular season well done, bad job preparing for playoff game.
Defense was the story of this season though, McAdoo realized this was a strength and played towards it, but that unit is the main reason the team won 11 games.
How exactly did BM do a "bad job preparing for the playoff game"?
Did you even watch the game?
Yes
and I will say again I actually like McAdoo and 11 wins means you are doing something right. Those I think most teams with some talent usually get a bump for one season with a new coach.
The Giants played what might have been their worst team game of the season when it mattered most. There were mental and physical errors on specials, drops etc.
I think this reflects on the coach. Tall order to prepare a team for a big road playoff battle. We had a coach who was the best at that.
This is a small sample size though, and I like McAdoo, just like one season is too few to ordain him better than TC.
So Beckham and Shepard dropping TD passes is on McAdoo?
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is really missing the point. The HC has a million different responsibilities that go beyond either side of the ball. McAdoo coaches the entire team and his success is measured by wins & losses, not how either side of the ball performs. This was Rex Ryan's problem, he was so focused on defense that he lacked the ability to be the head man of the entire roster.
McAdoo coached to the teams strengths brilliantly. He knew this was a defensive roster and his coaching helped the team win many close games.
Britt- again, you came out praising McAdoo after the WSH win, yet one week later you are wishing we still had a 70 year old TC who came off 4 straight non-playoff seasons.
As for last week, the offensive game plan was excellent. The Giants dominated early & if it wasn't for some dropped balls, it could have been 14-0.
Lastly, I do think it isn't unreasonable to think there was a disconnect with talent evaluation between JR & TC. It's only one year, but it does feel like everyone is on the same page.
I praised McAdoo because I thought McAdoo showed a lot of guts playing to win against the Redskins and I still do. I like that about him.
But my complaint with him has been the same as it has all year, as outlined above. No offense. Our offensive scoring was terrible. We didn't score over 20 points 6 games in a row to end the season. That's not going to get it done in today's NFL. It's just not. Our offense was painful to watch this year.
How can you say he's not an offensive guy? He calls the plays on offense. Yeah, he's the head coach too and responsible for all that. That's why I praised him for his head coaching decision against the Redskins.
But to claim McAdoo isn't an "offensive guy" when he designed the offense and calls the plays on offense is very strange logic to me.
11-5 is a pretty damn good record. Good for the division title most of the time and sometimes a bye. That's what I'm concerned about.
Except when speaking of Saint Coughlin.
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.
Except when speaking of Saint Coughlin.
This isn't really neccessary, and I probably should just not respond to posts like these as they don't really further the discussion in a constructive way.
Believe it or not, I actually said that I couldn't argue with Coughlin's departure last year. I was fine with the decision, even though I didn't agree that it was Coughlin, not the roster, that was the problem.
I don't think play-calling had much to do with it. If you can't see the personnel limitations we had (OL, TE, WR), then we have nothing to talk about.
McAdoo handled end of game situations extremely well. This team won 11 games.
What the fuck does that have to do with Coughlin.
The "Coughlin was wronged here" narrative is such fucking bullshit. He was giving plenty of time....It was time to move on. He was a great (HOF) HC- What else do you need to hear?
Once he was not hired as HC by any NFL team, you'd think some of you fucks would let that go.
Guess not.
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In comment 13325877 Britt in VA said:
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.
Except when speaking of Saint Coughlin.
This isn't really neccessary, and I probably should just not respond to posts like these as they don't really further the discussion in a constructive way.
Believe it or not, I actually said that I couldn't argue with Coughlin's departure last year. I was fine with the decision, even though I didn't agree that it was Coughlin, not the roster, that was the problem.
Answer me this: Do you think Coughlin was wronged by the Giants?
Do you not think he had input personnel?
Last year we were 6th in scoring, this year we were 26th.
Last year we scored over 30 points 7 times, this year we didn't hit that mark at all.
Last year we only scored under 20 points twice, this year we scored under 20 points 10 times.
What do you think was different on offense this year?
Why some people act like vampires being doused with holy water when a Giants fan waxes poetic that just maybe Coughlin could have performed the same or better than McAdoo this year with the defensive upgrade is strange to say the least.
Britt , no. The OP's original post said, " I believe had the Giants retained Coughlin he would have brought us to the promised land for a third time."
You're kidding, right? All the players on the team do S&C training, not just our main weapons/starters. Look at games missed due to injury.
Yes, they did but the changes for the offense were not that sweeping (Perkins & Shepard). Since the TC/McAdoo team had a good offense in 2015, and the McAdoo/Sullivan had a poor offense in 2016- what does this say about Coughlin? Nothing other than either
A) McAdoo forgot the 2015 offense.
B) Sullivan's idea's, plans, plays sucked.
The bottom line is that the owners & staff knew TC's days as a head coach were over and they took the proper steps to get this team back to the playoffs.
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In comment 13325791 drkenneth said:
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In comment 13325712 rocco8112 said:
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not England season. Regular season well done, bad job preparing for playoff game.
Defense was the story of this season though, McAdoo realized this was a strength and played towards it, but that unit is the main reason the team won 11 games.
How exactly did BM do a "bad job preparing for the playoff game"?
Did you even watch the game?
Yes
and I will say again I actually like McAdoo and 11 wins means you are doing something right. Those I think most teams with some talent usually get a bump for one season with a new coach.
The Giants played what might have been their worst team game of the season when it mattered most. There were mental and physical errors on specials, drops etc.
I think this reflects on the coach. Tall order to prepare a team for a big road playoff battle. We had a coach who was the best at that.
This is a small sample size though, and I like McAdoo, just like one season is too few to ordain him better than TC.
So Beckham and Shepard dropping TD passes is on McAdoo?
Dropped passes
Hail Mary
Rainey KR
Perkins staring at fumble
It is the cumulative build up of three errors. Could have been a classic game but the Giants shot themselves in the foot too much to compete for four quarters. Who is accountable for that? The buck stops with him as they say.
Why some people act like vampires being doused with holy water when a Giants fan waxes poetic that just maybe Coughlin could have performed the same or better than McAdoo this year with the defensive upgrade is strange to say the least.
"Look! McAdoo solved the injury problem by changing coaches (false, because some of our main weapons/starters missed significant time due to injury: JPP, Pugh, Vereen...)"
The offensive line regressed. McAdoo changed coaches there, too. By the logic above, if he solved the injury problem, did he make the offensive line problem worse? I don't believe that personally, but that's applying the same logic that a lot of posters present on threads like this.
Look, bottom line. McAdoo was hired because he was going to provide continuity on offense in Eli's final years. Yes, or no? The defensive scheme and coaching was left alone, and the defense was what put us at 11-5. Anybody that denies that is delusional. The offense let us down this year. And the Coughlin and McAdoo combination last year did much more with less than what this offense has.
This is a discussion board. We can discuss this. It doesn't mean that people don't like, or support McAdoo, okay? Obviously we all want him to succeed. But it's okay to point out that the offense, which has been the strength of this team for years, regressed majorly under his watch. From 6th in scoring to 26th in scoring is a massive drop. So when you consider that he was hired to provide continuity on offense, that is why people wonder what Coughlin's presence on this team, this year, would have provided.
It's not outrageous as some of you make it out to be. For the stat lovers out there, it's all right there. Did we improve anywhere on offense this year? Scoring was worse, passing was worse, rushing was worse.
great post
Nothing unreasonable
The TC and Reese fanboys deserve one another. Absolutely brutal.
The special teams were lousy.
WRs dropped passes. Offensive line wasn't good.
All a coach can do is show players a good plan for what they're about to compete against. Players still have to make plays. You can do a great job in the class room and still botch the game. The idea that mental errors are always a result of poor prep is not exactly flawless logic.
One would think this team won 10+ every year under him. His teams laid plenty of eggs...But we must not talk about that.
One would think this team won 10+ every year under him. His teams laid plenty of eggs...But we must not talk about that.
Who said we can't talk about them? We've talked about them plenty over the years.
To me, it feels like we're not allowed to talk about McAdoo's faults, judging by the posts here.
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But he's severely overrated here.
One would think this team won 10+ every year under him. His teams laid plenty of eggs...But we must not talk about that.
Who said we can't talk about them? We've talked about them plenty over the years.
To me, it feels like we're not allowed to talk about McAdoo's faults, judging by the posts here.
Give it up Britt. I'm sorry Coughlin is no longer HC. I know how difficult this must be for you.
The special teams were lousy.
WRs dropped passes. Offensive line wasn't good.
All a coach can do is show players a good plan for what they're about to compete against. Players still have to make plays. You can do a great job in the class room and still botch the game. The idea that mental errors are always a result of poor prep is not exactly flawless logic.
All points made are true. But, over the course of four quarters,the Giants played one of their worst team games from an execution stand point. Every unit made critical, avoidable, errors. If the HC does not hold some accountability for that, who does?
I think Eli's pedestrian (I don't want to say awful, I think that's overstating it) play during the regular season is responsible for some portion of the offensive dropoff. That doesn't mean he's done - just a bad year.
I'm encouraged by McAdoo. Very happy with the hire so far - and I loved Coughlin, he's easily my favorite coach in any sport. But it was time for him to go.
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The defense played a perfect game for the first 27 minutes, then foolishly let up a ridiculous hail mary, then got gutted when Rodgers realized Trevin Wade is junk.
The special teams were lousy.
WRs dropped passes. Offensive line wasn't good.
All a coach can do is show players a good plan for what they're about to compete against. Players still have to make plays. You can do a great job in the class room and still botch the game. The idea that mental errors are always a result of poor prep is not exactly flawless logic.
All points made are true. But, over the course of four quarters,the Giants played one of their worst team games from an execution stand point. Every unit made critical, avoidable, errors. If the HC does not hold some accountability for that, who does?
What's your fucking point? We should fire McAdoo?
I'm not sure what's happening here. This place is so strange.
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In comment 13325915 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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The defense played a perfect game for the first 27 minutes, then foolishly let up a ridiculous hail mary, then got gutted when Rodgers realized Trevin Wade is junk.
The special teams were lousy.
WRs dropped passes. Offensive line wasn't good.
All a coach can do is show players a good plan for what they're about to compete against. Players still have to make plays. You can do a great job in the class room and still botch the game. The idea that mental errors are always a result of poor prep is not exactly flawless logic.
All points made are true. But, over the course of four quarters,the Giants played one of their worst team games from an execution stand point. Every unit made critical, avoidable, errors. If the HC does not hold some accountability for that, who does?
What's your fucking point? We should fire McAdoo?
I'm not sure what's happening here. This place is so strange.
Me?
Fire an 11 win coach?
Plus, I like tbr guy. I hope he goes on t e a first ballot HoF coach who leads the Giants to a fucking golden age of football.
I was disappointed with the result, he is the Head Coach. I did not think the Giants looked sharp for the WHOLE game. A lot of this was due to mental errors.
Hopefully, he can coach the Giants to the tournament next year and get another crack.
Best thing about McAdoo this year was besting our division rivals. Giants under TC were really struggling other this over the past few seasons.
That said, what's that saying? If my aunt had a dick...?
Mac is the coach, hopefully he learns some things and we progress. I'm behind him. Hopefully we improve on last year, that would be my wish.
NO the loss of the Dallas game would have the team down for this one and they wouldn't be prepared.
Washington that team was winning that game
Vikings bad timing and a hurt QB lose
GreenBay Another Loss due to injuries
Ravens offense won this game. so win here
Rams in England won by defense win
Eagles Loss Tom sucked against the Eagles
2-6 first half leaves no shot at Playoffs.
another 6-10 season.
Last year we were 6th in scoring, this year we were 26th.
Last year we scored over 30 points 7 times, this year we didn't hit that mark at all.
Last year we only scored under 20 points twice, this year we scored under 20 points 10 times.
What do you think was different on offense this year?
It was very similar, but a few things happened that changed our offense. Jennings got old, Vereen went down, we have no fullback, Cruz wasn't back to his previous form, and we have absolutely no possession receiver. So yes it was similar, but that all contributed to the offense regressing.
Also we didn't play from behind as often this year. We weren't chasing points and facing defenses that took more chances because they had big leads. I don't have stats but I would bet that we faced more aggressive defenses last year then this year.
Why do you care? lol
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To what it was this year.
Last year we were 6th in scoring, this year we were 26th.
Last year we scored over 30 points 7 times, this year we didn't hit that mark at all.
Last year we only scored under 20 points twice, this year we scored under 20 points 10 times.
What do you think was different on offense this year?
It was very similar, but a few things happened that changed our offense. Jennings got old, Vereen went down, we have no fullback, Cruz wasn't back to his previous form, and we have absolutely no possession receiver. So yes it was similar, but that all contributed to the offense regressing.
Also we didn't play from behind as often this year. We weren't chasing points and facing defenses that took more chances because they had big leads. I don't have stats but I would bet that we faced more aggressive defenses last year then this year.
Eli also didn't play as well as he did the prior year.
I agree. What he did at the end of the ear last year at that press conference pissed me off. Giants should have just called a spade a spade and fired his entitled ass. Let him go to Jacksonville and be the puppet master there. They still won't win anything. The reason he won here was because the NYG's management forced him to change, otherwise he would have been shitcanned.
It's a minor miracle that he didn't get the boot after '06. Tiki saved him and then John Mara forced him to change. Tom couldn't pick Defensive Coordinators for the most part and was overly loyal to non-performing assistant coaches that Parcels or Belichick would have fired. I liken TC to John Wooden in many ways, but he had some severe faults and blindspots.
The argument that the offense severely regressed this year with more talent than last year is a valid one.
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Know can prove either way but Ben played young players this year which made are defense tough at the end. Coughlin had his favorites and almost NEVER played young talent. As a matter a fact, if not for injuries in 07 which forced us to play Bradshaw, and especially in 11 when we were forced to play Cruz, we wouldn't have won anything. JR got players when we COULD get players. We had cap space and there were players available. You do what you can with what you have. I respect Coughlin's run. But he was fired because he did not get it done. Management gave him every chance. He failed. End of story. His acting pissed off toward management is very low class. I'm sure he will try to fuck us as a GM.....like Parcells, he thinks he is bigger than the team. The irony is that all he preaches is team, but when the rubber hits the road it is all about him.
I agree. What he did at the end of the ear last year at that press conference pissed me off. Giants should have just called a spade a spade and fired his entitled ass. Let him go to Jacksonville and be the puppet master there. They still won't win anything. The reason he won here was because the NYG's management forced him to change, otherwise he would have been shitcanned.
It's a minor miracle that he didn't get the boot after '06. Tiki saved him and then John Mara forced him to change. Tom couldn't pick Defensive Coordinators for the most part and was overly loyal to non-performing assistant coaches that Parcels or Belichick would have fired. I liken TC to John Wooden in many ways, but he had some severe faults and blindspots.
Fuck me, the guy gave us fans the two most thrilling SB runs in franchise history, one of them against the best team ever in the NFL and this is your take away from his time here? smh
TC provided 2 of the greatest Giant wins in history. He's also responsible for 1 of the 2 worst (Miracle in the Meadowlands 2). I'd like to remember him as a winner and not dredge up his name everytime the Giants now lose.