"Something has to change, whether it be the offensive coordinator or the way they call and design plays. What they did Year 1 with McAdoo handling head coaching and playcalling duties didn't work. There were even internal complaints the offense was too vanilla and opposing defenses knew what was coming, especially in the run game. The receivers also didn't think there was enough creativity to get them open consistently."
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He needs a OC he can lean on.
What did he do, exactly?
Quote:
not sure why he takes so much sh-t, here.
What did he do, exactly?
I have no idea what he does, nor do I think anybody else here does beyond wild speculation. So between Sullivan and McAdoo, only one of them designed the offense and called the plays. Gun to your head, you have to assign blame, who are you picking?
He is NOW a slot corner, you don't pay slot corners that kind
of money. You can call him a starter if you want, I think
they need to restructure his deal. How many teams have a slot
corner with a 9 mill. cap hit, just asking.
Here's the answer, not very many!
They don't have all this extra money this year.
Quote:
not sure why he takes so much sh-t, here.
What did he do, exactly?
I would love to know since its a major part of the coaching staff and its clear that he was not a fit with the head coach from everything that we have seen from the outside.
Because he has never had one iota of success at OC, not here or there, and our offense struggled mightily.
He didn't call the plays, true - something that McAdoo needs to reconsider. Can't overlook the possibility that McAdoo doesn't trust him to do that based on his history.
He is NOW a slot corner, you don't pay slot corners that kind
of money. You can call him a starter if you want, I think
they need to restructure his deal. How many teams have a slot
corner with a 9 mill. cap hit, just asking.
Here's the answer, not very many!
They don't have all this extra money this year.
And if he doesn't restructure? Are you going to releass him? There is no reason whatsoever for him to restructure. And, also, restructure meams paying a player more upfront money and pushing money further down the line. Hence, restructuring is bad long term but helps you out in the short term. Why do the Giants need more cap room now?
Finally, a slot CB is sometimes MORE important than an outside corner. He is worth every penny.
Quote:
In comment 13325835 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
not sure why he takes so much sh-t, here.
What did he do, exactly?
I have no idea what he does, nor do I think anybody else here does beyond wild speculation. So between Sullivan and McAdoo, only one of them designed the offense and called the plays. Gun to your head, you have to assign blame, who are you picking?
He absolutely has something to do with the offense as the OC. He might be the one developing the game plan and implementing it. McAdoo isn't doing all the offensive prep work. We have no idea the extent. Since he's a Coughlin you turn a blind eye to his short comings especially.
I'm actually a Sullivan fan on some levels. He is an excellent positional coach; not a great coordinator, but I could actually see him being a great head coach given the right coordinators.
On this staff though he is a round peg in a square hole as the OC.
DRC isn't going anywhere. Your right. Worth every penny and is key to Spags game planning
Quote:
There really is no need for the Giants to restructure. If the Giants want Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie back, the price ($7 million in real money, $9 million in cap space) is fair. He's a veteran, starting-caliber cornerback, even if the Giants used him just 66 percent of the defensive snaps this season and mostly in the slot. That's probably even below market value.
He is NOW a slot corner, you don't pay slot corners that kind
of money. You can call him a starter if you want, I think
they need to restructure his deal. How many teams have a slot
corner with a 9 mill. cap hit, just asking.
Here's the answer, not very many!
They don't have all this extra money this year.
And if he doesn't restructure? Are you going to releass him? There is no reason whatsoever for him to restructure. And, also, restructure meams paying a player more upfront money and pushing money further down the line. Hence, restructuring is bad long term but helps you out in the short term. Why do the Giants need more cap room now?
Finally, a slot CB is sometimes MORE important than an outside corner. He is worth every penny.
What we do know is that McAdoo designed the offense and calls the plays! This feels like crazy town here.
That is just not true. It has always been widely reported that the Mara family loves Sullivan, and he was a TC guy, going back to Jax and even had the Army connections. Remember that he left here only for a promotion in TB, and was never fired here.
Your theory is that a new HC, with his pick of any offensive coordinator in the world not employed in that position, decided the best guy was someone who spent a career following TC and who had a great relationship with the owners and upper management. Could that be true? Ehh.......but is it likely? I don't think so.
Quote:
There really is no need for the Giants to restructure. If the Giants want Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie back, the price ($7 million in real money, $9 million in cap space) is fair. He's a veteran, starting-caliber cornerback, even if the Giants used him just 66 percent of the defensive snaps this season and mostly in the slot. That's probably even below market value.
He is NOW a slot corner, you don't pay slot corners that kind
of money. You can call him a starter if you want, I think
they need to restructure his deal. How many teams have a slot
corner with a 9 mill. cap hit, just asking.
Here's the answer, not very many!
They don't have all this extra money this year.
And if he doesn't restructure? Are you going to releass him? There is no reason whatsoever for him to restructure. And, also, restructure meams paying a player more upfront money and pushing money further down the line. Hence, restructuring is bad long term but helps you out in the short term. Why do the Giants need more cap room now?
Finally, a slot CB is sometimes MORE important than an outside corner. He is worth every penny.
If they want to try and sign both JPP and Hankins, they may release him. Tell me how many teams have a slot corner with
a 9 mill. cap hit. He's not worth every penny, gets dinged up too. I like the guy, but I look out what's best for the
organization, first and foremost. He has two years left
on his deal too, keep in mind.
He is NOW a slot corner, you don't pay slot corners that kind
of money. You can call him a starter if you want, I think
they need to restructure his deal. How many teams have a slot
corner with a 9 mill. cap hit, just asking.
Here's the answer, not very many!
They don't have all this extra money this year.
Agreed
Quote:
In comment 13325835 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
not sure why he takes so much sh-t, here.
What did he do, exactly?
I have no idea what he does, nor do I think anybody else here does beyond wild speculation. So between Sullivan and McAdoo, only one of them designed the offense and called the plays. Gun to your head, you have to assign blame, who are you picking?
The issue is it's bad for Sullivan either way. If he called plays, he did a shitty job. If he didn't and it's "not his offense," then what value did he bring? What's the point of keeping him around?
Quote:
There is nothing to suggest that Sullivan was pushed on McAdoo. That was pure speculation.
That is just not true. It has always been widely reported that the Mara family loves Sullivan, and he was a TC guy, going back to Jax and even had the Army connections. Remember that he left here only for a promotion in TB, and was never fired here.
Your theory is that a new HC, with his pick of any offensive coordinator in the world not employed in that position, decided the best guy was someone who spent a career following TC and who had a great relationship with the owners and upper management. Could that be true? Ehh.......but is it likely? I don't think so.
I am saying the production of the offense falls squarely on McAdoo. People trying to blame Sullivan, as Britt has explained, is all speculation. Even if Sullivan was pushed on MacAdoo, he still puts his fingerprints all over the offense. No matter which way it is sliced, McAdoo is responsible.
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In comment 13325844 Carson53 said:
Quote:
There really is no need for the Giants to restructure. If the Giants want Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie back, the price ($7 million in real money, $9 million in cap space) is fair. He's a veteran, starting-caliber cornerback, even if the Giants used him just 66 percent of the defensive snaps this season and mostly in the slot. That's probably even below market value.
He is NOW a slot corner, you don't pay slot corners that kind
of money. You can call him a starter if you want, I think
they need to restructure his deal. How many teams have a slot
corner with a 9 mill. cap hit, just asking.
Here's the answer, not very many!
They don't have all this extra money this year.
And if he doesn't restructure? Are you going to releass him? There is no reason whatsoever for him to restructure. And, also, restructure meams paying a player more upfront money and pushing money further down the line. Hence, restructuring is bad long term but helps you out in the short term. Why do the Giants need more cap room now?
Finally, a slot CB is sometimes MORE important than an outside corner. He is worth every penny.
.
If they want to try and sign both JPP and Hankins, they may release him. Tell me how many teams have a slot corner with
a 9 mill. cap hit. He's not worth every penny, gets dinged up too. I like the guy, but I look out what's best for the
organization, first and foremost. He has two years left
on his deal too, keep in mind.
He is more than a slot corner. And, I don't know why that is looked down upon. Plus, look at what happened when he went down in the GB game. The whole game plan went out the window. Not sure what you watched last weekend.
We do not need to have an Air Circus, but week in/week out we have to stop opposition DCs from having the easiest preparation week they will have all year.
Norv would be great but McAdoo would have to release most of his control of the offense since they run very differnt systems. I do not see that happening.
Would that be even remotely fair?
Would that be even remotely fair?
What if the boss' boss hired the OC?
Quote:
Think about it. Your boss (the HC) hires you as the OC and then tells you that he's going to call all the plays. Then when the offense sucks, rather than take responsibility, he tells you that YOU are fired.
Would that be even remotely fair?
What if the boss' boss hired the OC?
Then he wouldn't be able to fire him either if the GM or owner made the hire, right?
Norv likes to run 7 step drops and longballs.
Think he can do this with this offensive line?
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In comment 13325853 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 13325844 Carson53 said:
Quote:
There really is no need for the Giants to restructure. If the Giants want Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie back, the price ($7 million in real money, $9 million in cap space) is fair. He's a veteran, starting-caliber cornerback, even if the Giants used him just 66 percent of the defensive snaps this season and mostly in the slot. That's probably even below market value.
He is NOW a slot corner, you don't pay slot corners that kind
of money. You can call him a starter if you want, I think
they need to restructure his deal. How many teams have a slot
corner with a 9 mill. cap hit, just asking.
Here's the answer, not very many!
They don't have all this extra money this year.
And if he doesn't restructure? Are you going to releass him? There is no reason whatsoever for him to restructure. And, also, restructure meams paying a player more upfront money and pushing money further down the line. Hence, restructuring is bad long term but helps you out in the short term. Why do the Giants need more cap room now?
Finally, a slot CB is sometimes MORE important than an outside corner. He is worth every penny.
.
If they want to try and sign both JPP and Hankins, they may release him. Tell me how many teams have a slot corner with
a 9 mill. cap hit. He's not worth every penny, gets dinged up too. I like the guy, but I look out what's best for the
organization, first and foremost. He has two years left
on his deal too, keep in mind.
He is more than a slot corner. And, I don't know why that is looked down upon. Plus, look at what happened when he went down in the GB game. The whole game plan went out the window. Not sure what you watched last weekend.
I watched him play about 3 plays, as I said, he gets dinged up, specifically the previous year in 2015.
That is an underlying reason why they drafted an Apple.
No one is 'looking down' on playing the slot, his salary
and the their cap situation is the issue. It's not great
this year, somewhere in the middle of the pack I heard.
They ruined a good offense
more TMZ reporting as Ranaan is becoming Ralph JR.
Next stop ESPN and then PFF.
It was broken again last year. 11-5 felt good, but Mara made a big deal about "accountability" in is post '15 press conference.
I hope he contines to insist on accountability this off season. Whatever his duties, the OC is responsible for offensive performance.
You can start at the top if you want to and blame it on McAdoo, but if he goes, there's no sanctuary. EVERYONE underneath him is likely to go too, and we did finish 11-5 after all.
Based on this team's recent history, Sullivan should be on a very hot seat, indeed.
It was broken again last year. 11-5 felt good, but Mara made a big deal about "accountability" in is post '15 press conference.
I hope he contines to insist on accountability this off season. Whatever his duties, the OC is responsible for offensive performance.
You can start at the top if you want to and blame it on McAdoo, but if he goes, there's no sanctuary. EVERYONE underneath him is likely to go too, and we did finish 11-5 after all.
Based on this team's recent history, Sullivan should be on a very hot seat, indeed.
Why would McAdoo go? Just because something isn't working that doesn't mean someone should be fired. That is just insane.
Quote:
We fired (retired) Gilbride after 2013 because "the offense was broken."
It was broken again last year. 11-5 felt good, but Mara made a big deal about "accountability" in is post '15 press conference.
I hope he contines to insist on accountability this off season. Whatever his duties, the OC is responsible for offensive performance.
You can start at the top if you want to and blame it on McAdoo, but if he goes, there's no sanctuary. EVERYONE underneath him is likely to go too, and we did finish 11-5 after all.
Based on this team's recent history, Sullivan should be on a very hot seat, indeed.
Why would McAdoo go? Just because something isn't working that doesn't mean someone should be fired. That is just insane.
Are you familiar with BBI? lol. Insane is what they do best.
It was broken again last year. 11-5 felt good, but Mara made a big deal about "accountability" in is post '15 press conference.
I hope he contines to insist on accountability this off season. Whatever his duties, the OC is responsible for offensive performance.
You can start at the top if you want to and blame it on McAdoo, but if he goes, there's no sanctuary. EVERYONE underneath him is likely to go too, and we did finish 11-5 after all.
Based on this team's recent history, Sullivan should be on a very hot seat, indeed.
He made it clear Reese was going to be held accountable after keeping him and firing TC. With that said, Reese did his job and then some with this roster this past offseason, looking forward to this one.
[quote] Seriously, someone go out and get McAdoo an OC, and pronto.
agree 100% when you look at the wringles and imagination and unpredictability yesterday with Atlanta's offense yesterday, I was very jealous. I have been watching the Giants since 1966 and this is as vanilla and predictable offense as I have ever seen. McAdoo needs to give up playcalling or nothing will be different next year.
[quote] Seriously, someone go out and get McAdoo an OC, and pronto.
agree 100% when you look at the wringles and imagination and unpredictability yesterday with Atlanta's offense yesterday, I was very jealous. I have been watching the Giants since 1966 and this is as vanilla and predictable offense as I have ever seen. McAdoo needs to give up playcalling or nothing will be different next year.
Awesome another 11 win season?
[quote] Seriously, someone go out and get McAdoo an OC, and pronto.
agree 100% when you look at the wringles and imagination and unpredictability yesterday with Atlanta's offense yesterday, I was very jealous. I have been watching the Giants since 1966 and this is as vanilla and predictable offense as I have ever seen. McAdoo needs to give up playcalling or nothing will be different next year.
If you've been watching football since 1966, surely you can see the personnel differences between ATL and NYG.
Quote:
In comment 13325839 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13325835 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
not sure why he takes so much sh-t, here.
What did he do, exactly?
I have no idea what he does, nor do I think anybody else here does beyond wild speculation. So between Sullivan and McAdoo, only one of them designed the offense and called the plays. Gun to your head, you have to assign blame, who are you picking?
He absolutely has something to do with the offense as the OC. He might be the one developing the game plan and implementing it. McAdoo isn't doing all the offensive prep work. We have no idea the extent. Since he's a Coughlin you turn a blind eye to his short comings especially.
I'm actually a Sullivan fan on some levels. He is an excellent positional coach; not a great coordinator, but I could actually see him being a great head coach given the right coordinators.
On this staff though he is a round peg in a square hole as the OC.
Yup just like Atlanta.
Why would McAdoo go? Just because something isn't working that doesn't mean someone should be fired. That is just insane.
That's not really what I said, Robbie. I was making a point about Sullivan.
The McAdoo scenario was used to show the absurdity of the counter argument.
All that said, I'll admit it's possible Giants solve their problem in-house (with Sullivan part of the solution), but in my world there would be exit interviews and McAdoo (who would be pressured to give up play calling duties) would have to go to bat for the guy big-time, or I'd be picking his brain for guys that might be available and he might prefer to work with.