The JPP situation....

This deal will get done.

1. I doubt they franchise him again.
2. If they do, he won't sign the tender.
3. We need money to upgrade the offense.
4. Eventually, we're going to need to pay Beckham.

before the next injury. Save a ton of money to apply to Calais Campbell or another DL guy

If he stays, it better not be for market dollars given his back stuff..That never gets better, only worse, imo

Just to keep him off the market until June. They can pull the tag just before the deadline if he does not sign it. I wou. Tag him and give offer and let him feel the heat. He was offered a 5 year 60 million deal while tagged last time and he sat on the offer and ended up blowing off his hand and the deal was then pulled. He won't make the same mistake twice. JPP gets tagged and signs the real offer as long as it is remote and not a slap in the face type offer.

In comment 13326235 Big Blue '56 said:

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If he stays, it better not be for market dollars given his back stuff..That never gets better, only worse, imo

The Giants won't get him for less than market.

wonder if we lose both JPP and Hankins. JPP wants a monster deal that Reese may be unwilling to give to a 29 year old DE with a history of back injuries, and who is missing much of his right hand. Reese may also think that Thomas and a draft pick can replace Hankins, especially since he replaced Coifed and Joseph. We have a lot of money, but we have OBJ and presumably Pugh to resign.

In comment 13326241 RetroJint said:

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In comment 13326235 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: If he stays, it better not be for market dollars given his back stuff..That never gets better, only worse, imo The Giants won't get him for less than market.

Then bye-bye..Let him be another team's injury problem..

In comment 13326244 AcidTest said:

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wonder if we lose both JPP and Hankins. JPP wants a monster deal that Reese may be unwilling to give to a 29 year old DE with a history of back injuries, and who is missing much of his right hand. Reese may also think that Thomas and a draft pick can replace Hankins, especially since he replaced Coifed and Joseph. We have a lot of money, but we have OBJ and presumably Pugh to resign.

OBJ is a few years away

and then let him go for 2018.

He's 30 years old in 2018.

If he plays, great, if he doesn't, well then he doesn't play for anybody else either. Nobody wants to see him in New England, Washington, etc next season and the tag is the only way to prevent it unless he signs long term here.

JPP entertains the hell out of me. The NY Football Giants are pretty much the only sport team that I follow these days and I like to see this kind of player. Almost LT type - almost. I still like his ability to take over some games or portions. I am not worried at all that he would take it easy after he gets his money. Snacks, Vernon and Jenkins certainally did not. Jackrabbit was also very entertaining when the camera was on him. Snacks was also an entertaining type player. As was Collins! I guess that I just love defense.

I understand that his body has been taking some hits and is maybe on the verge of a breakdown, but he does seem to be determined to play and to play hard.

I know that it is bad business to pay for past performances, but I would like to see the Giants consider it a bit in the negotiations.

I liked the idea of paying Cruz one more time(it was a pay cut too) gambling a bit on his past. Did not work out as well as I would have hoped. Maybe he needs another year of healing and more time in the slot. I dunno.

Obviously, I would not make a not-so-good GM.

This is the year to let it happen. Ideally you keep him, but it doesn't make a great deal of sense to have two defensive ends making OV money. Vernon's cap hit is 16mil this year, can't see the Giants tying up 32mil in two players, plus what they are already spending on Snacks and Eli.

This draft is extremely deep at DE and DT, with projected starters available as late as the 3rd round. A second round prospect I am intrigued by is the DE from Villanova, Tanoh Kpassagnon. 6'7", 290lbs, 4.7 40. Built like a power forward. Honestly, if he could do back flips, he'd be JPP part II.
Tanoh Kpassagnon, highlights - ( New Window )

He is a rare talent at his position,they should be able to work out a deal before it comes time to use franchise tag.

In comment 13326289 tomjgiant said:

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He is a rare talent at his position,they should be able to work out a deal before it comes time to use franchise tag.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see JPP stay, just not sure the Giants can get him for less than Vernon got.

No matter how you gage it he has been more a of a minus than a plus. Some great moments and evidence of potential greatness, but mostly a big disappointment for what we thought we had in his first year. Think he is looking for a golden parachute contract and will produce accordingly. Lots of injuries, mistakes and missed games. Let somebody else take those risks , Keep Hankins unless we want to go the way we did after the Linval Joseph blunder. Back to last in the league in defense and against the run. MO

We can re-sign Hankins and use that money in FA on the OL...Okwara looks like a player. He doesn't have to be as good as JPP, just healthier and reasonably productive..OO? No idea about him at this point. My understanding is that the draft has some more than decent DEs (though always a crapshoot)..

will be cost prohibitive. If it's between him and Hankins - it's the Hank.

To the Giants.

He'd want what? 15 mill per over 4-5 years?

The top 3 DEs in terms of average salary are JJ Watt, OV, and Wilkerson.

All three get around 17 million per year. Quinn from LAR comes in fourth earning 14 and change per. Then the rest of the pack is in the range of around 10-11 per.

I'd imagine JPP sees himself in that upper echelon deserving closer to 15-16 mill per though. To me, that sounds like a crazy number to spend on a guy entering perhaps the tail end of his prime. I just don't know if he's worth the money at this point. Or if he'd ask for that much money (but I'm not optimistic after his statement last week).

Am I wrong in my estimations?

In comment 13326315 adamg said:

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To the Giants. He'd want what? 15 mill per over 4-5 years? The top 3 DEs in terms of average salary are JJ Watt, OV, and Wilkerson. All three get around 17 million per year. Quinn from LAR comes in fourth earning 14 and change per. Then the rest of the pack is in the range of around 10-11 per. I'd imagine JPP sees himself in that upper echelon deserving closer to 15-16 mill per though. To me, that sounds like a crazy number to spend on a guy entering perhaps the tail end of his prime. I just don't know if he's worth the money at this point. Or if he'd ask for that much money (but I'm not optimistic after his statement last week). Am I wrong in my estimations?

Think you nailed the dilemma

Four year deal is about right. Not sure of the dollars, but they'll be competitive with what he'd get on open market.

JPP is a foundational Giants football player. He's the best Giants defensive player not named Collins.

We need to do whatever we can (within reason) to keep him.

In comment 13326331 aquidneck said:

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Four year deal is about right. Not sure of the dollars, but they'll be competitive with what he'd get on open market. JPP is a foundational Giants football player. He's the best Giants defensive player not named Collins. We need to do whatever we can (within reason) to keep him.

I don't disagree, but what is within reason?
He is going to be seeking between 15-19 million

Of letting JPP test free agency and investing money into the offensive line and other areas on offense.

I'd rather re-sign Hankins and look to the draft for a DE. Okwara, Wynn and OO are good depth opposite Vernon. Maybe even an older veteran such as Charles Johnson can be had on a short term deal.

I don't want to lose JPP, but our Defense didn't struggle without him. Yeah, they got no pressure on Rodgers in the playoff game but I don't think JPP would've made a difference. I think that the Giants couldn't blitz Rodgers as much as they wanted once DRC went out and they had to play more zone and rush only 4. Which was working for most of the game until late third and fourth quarter when the defense just got gassed.

Sign two FA OL, a TE, WR to replace Cruz and maybe a RB.

Need to fix this offense so I wouldn't invest big money into a JPP.

Contracts usually inflate each offseason and there are tons of teams with tons of cap space. I expect JPP to have a deal averaging over 15 million per year and Hankins getting one averaging over 10 million per year.

Look at the deals Fletcher Cox and Vernon got. Hell Calais Campbell made over 14 million a year the last two years.

I'm very much in favor of the franchise tag here if they can't get a deal done.

Could add a lower cost vet and use a high pick in the draft if they can't get it done, but I think they will, its Hankins that I don't see any way the Giants will match, plus we need a penetrating DT, a big body run stuffer is something that can be had for a lot cheaper. I think it's much more important to keep DRC then Hankins.

In comment 13326636 Patrick77 said:

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Contracts usually inflate each offseason and there are tons of teams with tons of cap space. I expect JPP to have a deal averaging over 15 million per year and Hankins getting one averaging over 10 million per year. Look at the deals Fletcher Cox and Vernon got. Hell Calais Campbell made over 14 million a year the last two years. I'm very much in favor of the franchise tag here if they can't get a deal done.

Would you franchise JPP and work out a long term deal, under the premise that Hankins is the cheaper of the two and a deal is possible. Or do you franchise JPP and let Hank walk.

Franchise tag for DEs is 15.7 mil, and it's 13 mil for a DT. I think Hank can be kept for around 10 mil per year, so using the tag on JPP makes sense. All that said, will the Giants really lock up 20% of the cap on 2 DEs, and pay Hank, Eli, Pugh, Richburg, OBJ, and Collins.

In comment 13326652 PaulN said:

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Could add a lower cost vet and use a high pick in the draft if they can't get it done, but I think they will, its Hankins that I don't see any way the Giants will match, plus we need a penetrating DT, a big body run stuffer is something that can be had for a lot cheaper. I think it's much more important to keep DRC then Hankins.

I don't disagree with any of this at all. It's quite logical.

The ideal deal I see is one that after 3 years allows the Giants to cut bait. If they can't work a deal he gets paid big money and they get an awesome player for one year or try to trade him for something.

Hankins I would love to keep but I expect him to be overpaid just like Joseph was when he left. Hankins might grow into a player worth his contract as contracts inflate even more and he improved but who knows. The Giants could see Bromley has the future as in the past they have seemed to be willing to let DTs walk and have an improving draft pick take over.The above scenario is basically what happened when Joseph left. Joseph also turned out to be well worth his contract.

Okwara, Wynn, and Odi are depth players you would rather have as your 4th DE - they aren't replacing JPP.

... the salary cap says we can't resign both Hankins and JPP and may not be able to resign either.

If I had to pick, Hankins. He's younger and we saw the defense play very well with Hankins and without JPP. Not that we don't have a better defense with him, but that's the decision you have to make.

And yes, there's the back and other injuries to consider.

has said he won't sign a one year deal....Tom C will give him that.

Move on.

With jpp. They need to keep him and add a player there

the consensus of the people who know the most about the cap is that we have plenty of cap room to sign everyone this year.

If you are worried that we will overspend and get into trouble in the future, remember that around then we will be paying a rookie salary to our new quarterback instead of the enormous salary that Manning receives.

It makes a lot of sense to pay two defensive ends Vernon money if they are both as productive as Vernon. Losing one of the two hurts the one who remains, since the opponent can only double team one of them

We have to play Dak and the insufferable Cowboys twice a year and Rodgers still stands in the way of returning to the Super Bowl. Manning only has two or three years left so we don't have time to develop rookies.

What is the over/under on JPP threads before he finally signs a contract with someone? I"ll start at 65.

are really not that impressive......never really developed "moves".....he loses containment sometimes....that hand, makes him less of a player, whether he wants to admit it or not.....and can he stay on the field?

let's face it...this may be his last big contract, and he is not going to give a home discount.....

There is no way JPP goes to the Pats, who do not overpay for free agents, who have health issues...

As for Hankins, he is solid, nothing more...more easily replaceable than JPP....I expected his level of play to rise with better players around him, and didn't see it....

He has a fairly consistent injury history and will command a huge salary.

Better to let him go a year to early vs. a year to late.

I would consider franchising him 1 yr. That's it.

Doesnt' Jacksonville have a ton of cash?

will be re-signed. Not so sure about Hankins. BTW: Bromley cannot replace Hankins. Hankins is more pf a run stuffer and Bromley is a collapse the pocket guy.

Our quarterback only has two or three effective years left. We have to have all players on board for next year.

Usually you have to take some risks to achieve greatness. If you believe that JPP is overrated against both the pass and run, you're not in agreement with the majority, but you could be right. Are you taking into account the 8 passes he batted away at the line of scrimmage according to PFF, and the blocked field goal?

Why do people keep saying that he's injury prone? In his first five years with the Giants he played in 80 of 85 games, including the post season. Of course he did miss a season and a half after he blew up his hand, but that's not really an injury, although he does have another hand that he could blow up.

In comment 13327717 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:

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Our quarterback only has two or three effective years left. We have to have all players on board for next year. Usually you have to take some risks to achieve greatness. If you believe that JPP is overrated against both the pass and run, you're not in agreement with the majority, but you could be right. Are you taking into account the 8 passes he batted away at the line of scrimmage according to PFF, and the blocked field goal? Why do people keep saying that he's injury prone? In his first five years with the Giants he played in 80 of 85 games, including the post season. Of course he did miss a season and a half after he blew up his hand, but that's not really an injury, although he does have another hand that he could blow up.

He didn't miss a season and a half. He missed half of last year (due to his accident). He missed a quarter of this year (due to a sports' hernia). The last two years he's missed 13 out of 33 games. Mitigating unrealistic circumstances, it still doesn't bode well to a team paying 16 mill dollars that their player might miss a couple of games here or there, when you expect him to be your best player in the front four.

In comment 13327591 mrvax said:

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will be re-signed. Not so sure about Hankins. BTW: Bromley cannot replace Hankins. Hankins is more pf a run stuffer and Bromley is a collapse the pocket guy.

Agree that Bromley is no where near a replacement for Hankins, What pockets has he collapsed since he is here? Hankins paired with Snacks made our defense top ten or better. Lose him and we go back down to mediocrity again. Just as we did when we let Joseph go.

In comment 13328392 TMS said:

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Bromley cannot replace Hankins. Hankins is more pf a run stuffer and Bromley is a collapse the pocket guy. What pockets has he collapsed since he is here?

The Giants and their fans?