Actuallly you don't know anything. But carry on with your crusade.
How do you cook even wanted to come here ?? You don't. But fire the gm anyway.
if he was a free agent, it was possible, numbnuts.
but I won't argue with stupid.
You don't know that it was or wasn't possible. None of us do. You can sit at home and sign anyone you want but it doesn't work as easily in the NFL. Cook could hung up or ignored twenty teams we don't know shit. Some of you act like you know but no.
Tye isn't the reason they passed on Cook. Reese doesn't value the position. Why people can't grasp that is just annoying. They let Bennet go for a reasonable deal. That says it all
RE: RE: RE: You don't even know it cook was even a possible get
Actuallly you don't know anything. But carry on with your crusade.
How do you cook even wanted to come here ?? You don't. But fire the gm anyway.
if he was a free agent, it was possible, numbnuts.
but I won't argue with stupid.
You don't know that it was or wasn't possible. None of us do. You can sit at home and sign anyone you want but it doesn't work as easily in the NFL. Cook could hung up or ignored twenty teams we don't know shit. Some of you act like you know but no.
Like I said, for a FREE agent, anything is possible. If he doesn't want to come here, you make him want to come here.
whether Reese DIDN'T reach out to Cook's agent? Not every conversation becomes a news flash.
This is what I would like to know. Did Reese perform his due diligence in regards to this position? IIRC, there weren't any reports of free agent TEs visiting, or any interest at all in FA TEs, for that matter.
Sometimes players that much isn't expected of just manage to perform in big spots - but Cook by far was not a coveted free agent by most teams. Definitely a lot of revisionist history going on here.
it isn't about Cook. It's about being content with our TEs while going all in on the defense and having a franchise QB with a limited window. Will Tye was our starting TE, surpassing Leaping Larry. Let that sink in. From the vaunted football factory of Stony Brook, the storied franchise of the New York Football Giants trots out Will Tye as their starting TE. It's like shitting in a diaper and being happy because you have a warm seat.
this is about Reese doing his due diligence and not sitting content with Donnell and Tye.
Again, you don't know what Reese did. You just assumed he did nothing and then blast him for it. Do you honestly think an NFL gm, any GM doesn't work hard or try hell to improve their team? These guys don't want to fail they don't sit in their office with a smug smile saying out loud I'm smarter than everyone else I don't need to sign anyone.
You don't sign guys with the snap of a finger in FA. There's a process. There are agents and relationships. Players are picky and weird and likely even aloof. FA Players will narrow their choices down to a select few cities. Agents will burn bridges with certain franchises and craft relationships with others. There are so many moving parts involved it's beyond out knowledge. But you just know Reese is ignoring the TE position.
That the Giants went out and conducted a historical FA spending spree last spring. They had a lot of time and money and resources invested in the the defense FA pool. They also likely hoped that Donnell and Tye would develop into better all around players because sometimes that actually happens. Maybe that was a stretch it sure looks that way now.
The Giants would not be playing yesterday if they signed Jared cook. This isn't rob gronkowski we're talking about here. He's a solid receiving TE that is average at blocking. He also missed the majority of this season. I'm sure everyone would be giving Reese a pass for spending 3 million plus on an injured mediocre TE.
Reese and the Giants will address the offense this spring .
I've defended him for years - even the bad ones. I also applaud him for the free agency overhaul he made on defense this year. But, I think he lit the victory cigar way too soon. My gripe is because of the moves he didn't make.
Now, again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall any TE buzz this offseason. You're right, I'm not a fly on Jerry Reese's wall, so I have no idea if he made calls to Jared Cook or whover. BUT, the big caveat is that nowadays, the casual fan is entrenched via beat writers and information is passed along quite easily.
During this offseason, I do not recall any visits by FA TEs, asshat info, rumors of interest or even any kind of buzz re: TEs. We brought in, I think, Ryan Malleck. That's it. So that tells me right there, that JR had no interest in upgrading the TE position. It tells me he was satisfied with the duo of Tye and Donnell. THIS IS WHAT IS SO DISCONCERTING.
Hell, maybe it's just perception. If it was public information that 2 or 3 TEs made visits, then it is perceived that Jerry made an effort. We all know, in New York, perception is everything. Ask Odell. Now, I'm sure JR does his due diligence, but the TE situation still smells rotten to me.
So that tells me right there, that JR had no interest in upgrading the TE position. It tells me he was satisfied with the duo of Tye and Donnell. THIS IS WHAT IS SO DISCONCERTING.
Or maybe it says JR is looking for "Football Players" and no FA TE passed his criteria for the position.
it isn't about Cook. It's about being content with our TEs while going all in on the defense and having a franchise QB with a limited window. Will Tye was our starting TE, surpassing Leaping Larry. Let that sink in. From the vaunted football factory of Stony Brook, the storied franchise of the New York Football Giants trots out Will Tye as their starting TE. It's like shitting in a diaper and being happy because you have a warm seat.
I love to make Stonybrook references, but Tye did get recruited to Florida and attend there first.
I've defended him for years - even the bad ones. I also applaud him for the free agency overhaul he made on defense this year. But, I think he lit the victory cigar way too soon. My gripe is because of the moves he didn't make.
Now, again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall any TE buzz this offseason. You're right, I'm not a fly on Jerry Reese's wall, so I have no idea if he made calls to Jared Cook or whover. BUT, the big caveat is that nowadays, the casual fan is entrenched via beat writers and information is passed along quite easily.
During this offseason, I do not recall any visits by FA TEs, asshat info, rumors of interest or even any kind of buzz re: TEs. We brought in, I think, Ryan Malleck. That's it. So that tells me right there, that JR had no interest in upgrading the TE position. It tells me he was satisfied with the duo of Tye and Donnell. THIS IS WHAT IS SO DISCONCERTING.
Hell, maybe it's just perception. If it was public information that 2 or 3 TEs made visits, then it is perceived that Jerry made an effort. We all know, in New York, perception is everything. Ask Odell. Now, I'm sure JR does his due diligence, but the TE situation still smells rotten to me.
Well GOLLY GEE! you didn't hear ANYTHING???? Well that is DISCONCERTING! If you didn't hear about, then that seals it for me!
I don't ever want to see him in Giants blue...unreliable and not worth the money we would have to pay him....as I recall our group here was saying "same old Cook" when we played the Packers earlier in the season... we can do better...
Cook is a good player and a unique weapon. Very few can run like him and a TE this size:speed is hard to find. His production was subpar but that was more about the talent around him and injuries.
When he's healthy he helps any team.
If he has a QB the production would be there.
Giants would have been better with him. He's a FA this year they should bring him in.
First of all, every evaluation and decision the Giants make is an organizational one. Do they make mistakes? Of course they do. So does Bill Belichick.
The Giants as an organization miscalculated with several of their decisions and nailed several others. They made their evaluation of the TE's on their roster, made their evaluation of the TE's on the market, and they decided to sign with Will Johnson, who subsequently got hurt. I'm sure they put a price on Cook that included what he would be worth on a one year deal and what kind of longterm contract they might consider. I imagine there was a conversation between Reese and Cook's agent at some point in the process.
For whatever reason, Cook's agent preferred the situation in Green Bay. For all we know the Giants offered $3M on a one year deal and he decided he was in a better position to maximize his future earnings by taken a little less money to play for the Packers.
I'm sure Cook would've preferred a longterm contract from somebody but nobody was making him an acceptable offer. He opted for a one-year prove-it-to-me deal and who could blame him for picking the Packers as the best place for him to improve his resume.
So to assume the Giants "didn't do their due diligence" or were "arrogant" is just not fair given our limited information. The Giants were very active and did great in free agency last year. You shouldn't complain about the fact they didn't have a crystal ball.
It's also possible that the Giants weren't spending anymore up front money last offseason. They did spend a lot of loot. We forget that. Forget the cap, the owners are only going to spend so much loot up front before they say enough.
I found/find Vernon Davis to be a much more annoying miss than Jared Cook. Davis seemed to me to be a great guy to take a shot on and a perfect fit skill set wise. Really annoyed when he became a Redskin. Cook is a great athlete who has disappointed at every stop his entire career. Consistently inconsistent (at best).
Cook was a perfect fit for the GB offense and Rodgers makes him look great/makes up for his drops (try to remember, for example, that he dropped two HUGE passes before making the big one). You think you hate Larry Donnell? Cook was routinely destroyed by Rams fans for being a bonehead that botched simple plays. This was the comment in the St. Louis Dispatch today on the game:
Quote:
Say, was that Green Bay Packers tight end Jared Cook making a difficult clutch catch on the sideline Sunday on a play Aaron Rodgers made up on the fly?
Yes, that was the ex-Ram that let pass after pass after pass carom off his chest during his time as the most-overpaid athlete in St. Louis. He pulled off the double-toe drag on the last-second reception to set up the game-winning field goal.
This is one of those situations where the whole league probably missed on him a bit. I just can't beat Jerry Reese up for not thinking that guy was an answer. Nobody did.
Hell, Will Tye has a comparable skillset and similar measurables, if we're going there. I just think JR sat content with what we had, and it was a mistake. This isn't even a hindsight 20/20 statement. I recall people on BBI even pointing out the TE deficiency back in March. Now, if casual fans on a website can see it, what in the world is our GM thinking?
Hell, Will Tye has a comparable skillset and similar measurables, if we're going there. I just think JR sat content with what we had, and it was a mistake. This isn't even a hindsight 20/20 statement. I recall people on BBI even pointing out the TE deficiency back in March. Now, if casual fans on a website can see it, what in the world is our GM thinking?
To be fair, our 1 TE FA signing was on IR all year (Will Johnson). A guy - like Robinson - who was seen as a low-key high impact signing who would be THE blocking TE we needed: the H-Back, FB, and TE blocker. Also, our regular FB Whitlock also missed the season the same way.
It wasn't that he didn't address it. I figure they didn't want to keep throwing money at a problem that might not need it. If Donnell showed his promise that might be expected, our TEs could have been a strength. With Tye being small at the TE spot, he could develop into that H-Back type. Plus, we drafted Adams.
It was an optimistic plan once Johnson and Whitlock went down, but it wasn't like he did nothing.
Hell, Will Tye has a comparable skillset and similar measurables, if we're going there. I just think JR sat content with what we had, and it was a mistake. This isn't even a hindsight 20/20 statement. I recall people on BBI even pointing out the TE deficiency back in March. Now, if casual fans on a website can see it, what in the world is our GM thinking?
Sure. I didn't like our TEs going into the season at all...but I don't know that there were a bunch of options there either. Like I said, I was interested in Vernon Davis. Marty B would have been good (though I don't know if him coming back was an option on either side). Other than that, who are we talking about? Because criticizing a GM for not addressing a position is pretty silly unless you have specific options that he should have, but didn't, take. The point above is simply that I'm not going to really blame Reese for not viewing Cook as an option. Basically nobody did.
a TE who only caught 30 passes (out of 51 targets) this season from Aaron Rodgers is a massive miss for our GM because he has a career day in the playoffs against the 26th ranked passing defense.
P.S. Sunday was only the third time in a 117 games that Cook had over a 100 receiving yards in a game.
Again, despite the Thread Title, the thread isn't so much an endorsement of a specific player. But rather an example of available talent where instead our front office decided to stand pat with our steaming pile of crap of TEs. Jerry is smiling because he likes his warm seat.
A few posters opted to bring attention to the signing of Will Johnson as evidence that Jerry did try to improve our TE talent, and certainly is not responsible for injuries to signed players. But Will was not and is not a TE. He was/is our Fullback/HBack.
The purpose of including Will Johnson in the conversation...
It demonstrates that the Giants had a plan for improving the team's running game. If you want to call him an H-back that's fine, but so are Jared Cook and Vernon Davis. None of them are known for their inline blocking.
My issue isn't with the contention that Reese failed to improve the TE position, but with the people saying that it was out of arrogance or sloppiness. The Giants were very serious about improving the team last offseason and were obviously very aggressive in free agency. You can bet for certain that they spent many hours evaluating the TE's on their roster, what was available in free agency, and what was available in the draft. And then they went about implementing the plan. None of us know who they pursued and how hard they pursued them.
Bottomline is that last February and March, thirty-two teams put together a plan for the 2017 season. Only one of them will get to claim their plan was successful and it won't be the Giants.
RE: The purpose of including Will Johnson in the conversation...
It demonstrates that the Giants had a plan for improving the team's running game. If you want to call him an H-back that's fine, but so are Jared Cook and Vernon Davis. None of them are known for their inline blocking.
My issue isn't with the contention that Reese failed to improve the TE position, but with the people saying that it was out of arrogance or sloppiness. The Giants were very serious about improving the team last offseason and were obviously very aggressive in free agency. You can bet for certain that they spent many hours evaluating the TE's on their roster, what was available in free agency, and what was available in the draft. And then they went about implementing the plan. None of us know who they pursued and how hard they pursued them.
Bottomline is that last February and March, thirty-two teams put together a plan for the 2017 season. Only one of them will get to claim their plan was successful and it won't be the Giants.
Good post, Milton. And overall, I agree with the premise that the team was improved upon and was very aggressive in FA. But in regards to the specific position of TE, Reese failed. He cannot look at the players at that position and think, "We're good, I'll take a 6th round flyer to round out the group". That to me is arrogance. With regards to Will Johnson, it isn't me that is calling him a Fullback/HBack. On his twitter, he refers to himself as a Fullback/HBack. In the articles at the time of the signing, there was no inference that his signing was meant to bolster the TE position.
RE: The purpose of including Will Johnson in the conversation...
It demonstrates that the Giants had a plan for improving the team's running game. If you want to call him an H-back that's fine, but so are Jared Cook and Vernon Davis. None of them are known for their inline blocking.
My issue isn't with the contention that Reese failed to improve the TE position, but with the people saying that it was out of arrogance or sloppiness. The Giants were very serious about improving the team last offseason and were obviously very aggressive in free agency. You can bet for certain that they spent many hours evaluating the TE's on their roster, what was available in free agency, and what was available in the draft. And then they went about implementing the plan. None of us know who they pursued and how hard they pursued them.
Bottomline is that last February and March, thirty-two teams put together a plan for the 2017 season. Only one of them will get to claim their plan was successful and it won't be the Giants.
Milton in other words he had Plan "A" but no Plan "B"? And you feel that is okay?
Add to that the fact that not only did he NOT have a backup plan but that he screwed up putting him on season ending IR for a burner that he could have avoided if he waited one more day to put him on IR as an official part of the seasons 53 man roster.
So, let's ask Johnson: Are you a fullback? Tight end? Both?
"Yes, I'm both," said Johnson, who did divulge he is currently working out of the tight ends position room. "The more I can do to contribute to this offense and help out, I'm more than capable of doing. Whether that's fullback, tight end, short yardage runner, whatever. I did that all in Pittsburgh, so I'm familiar with it."
The reason Johnson is relevant here, whatever you want to call him, is that I do think the plan was to get him ON the field and our lackluster TEs OFF the field. They also drafted someone to compete at the spot.
What's lost in a lot of the above analysis is the question of what was available to Reese. He may NOT have been satisfied with where the position stood...that doesn't always mean there's a viable answer out there. You can't just say we needed to address TE, he didn't, therefore it's a fail. Like I said above, if what we're saying here is we had a hole at TE and Reese didn't think Cook would fill it as well as Johnson....I'm not gonna kill him for that. Link - ( New Window )
Giantfan, wouldn't that have been rectified if he did not IR him
He was IR'd for the season due to a burner which is somewhat odd to begin with. All they had to do was wait one day and he could have come back to play this season. But once they IR'd him they basically gave up on the spot, the burner happened the first preseason game, they had 4 weeks to figure it out.
but let's not forget that we ended up bringing Vereen back as the designated to return player. If the choice came down to Vereen or a TE/FB they had never seen in a real game in blue, they may still have gone with Vereen, hard to say.
RE: Probably wasn't handled the best possible way....
but let's not forget that we ended up bringing Vereen back as the designated to return player. If the choice came down to Vereen or a TE/FB they had never seen in a real game in blue, they may still have gone with Vereen, hard to say.
Definitely if your going to use that one move Vereen is the choice. It just came across as a last min scramble on their part which I feel has cost us big time this year
RE: RE: Probably wasn't handled the best possible way....
but let's not forget that we ended up bringing Vereen back as the designated to return player. If the choice came down to Vereen or a TE/FB they had never seen in a real game in blue, they may still have gone with Vereen, hard to say.
Definitely if your going to use that one move Vereen is the choice. It just came across as a last min scramble on their part which I feel has cost us big time this year
I agree, in retrospect, it was mishandled (especially in light of the fact that I think we cut someone in the next few days to add Josh Johnson...so presumably they could have just cut that person a few days earlier, IR'd W. Johnson, and then added J. Johnson). But how could it have cost us big time if you agree he's not the guy we would have brought back?
RE: RE: RE: Probably wasn't handled the best possible way....
but let's not forget that we ended up bringing Vereen back as the designated to return player. If the choice came down to Vereen or a TE/FB they had never seen in a real game in blue, they may still have gone with Vereen, hard to say.
Definitely if your going to use that one move Vereen is the choice. It just came across as a last min scramble on their part which I feel has cost us big time this year
I agree, in retrospect, it was mishandled (especially in light of the fact that I think we cut someone in the next few days to add Josh Johnson...so presumably they could have just cut that person a few days earlier, IR'd W. Johnson, and then added J. Johnson). But how could it have cost us big time if you agree he's not the guy we would have brought back?
Quote:
Actuallly you don't know anything. But carry on with your crusade.
How do you cook even wanted to come here ?? You don't. But fire the gm anyway.
if he was a free agent, it was possible, numbnuts.
but I won't argue with stupid.
You don't know that it was or wasn't possible. None of us do. You can sit at home and sign anyone you want but it doesn't work as easily in the NFL. Cook could hung up or ignored twenty teams we don't know shit. Some of you act like you know but no.
Tye isn't the reason they passed on Cook. Reese doesn't value the position. Why people can't grasp that is just annoying. They let Bennet go for a reasonable deal. That says it all
Quote:
In comment 13327583 djm said:
Quote:
Actuallly you don't know anything. But carry on with your crusade.
How do you cook even wanted to come here ?? You don't. But fire the gm anyway.
if he was a free agent, it was possible, numbnuts.
but I won't argue with stupid.
You don't know that it was or wasn't possible. None of us do. You can sit at home and sign anyone you want but it doesn't work as easily in the NFL. Cook could hung up or ignored twenty teams we don't know shit. Some of you act like you know but no.
Like I said, for a FREE agent, anything is possible. If he doesn't want to come here, you make him want to come here.
This is what I would like to know. Did Reese perform his due diligence in regards to this position? IIRC, there weren't any reports of free agent TEs visiting, or any interest at all in FA TEs, for that matter.
He had a great game, but as usual BBI is reactionary and unable to see the big picture.
March 2016 Write Up on Packers' Signing of Cook - ( New Window )
He had a great game, but as usual BBI is reactionary and unable to see the big picture.
+1
Again, you don't know what Reese did. You just assumed he did nothing and then blast him for it. Do you honestly think an NFL gm, any GM doesn't work hard or try hell to improve their team? These guys don't want to fail they don't sit in their office with a smug smile saying out loud I'm smarter than everyone else I don't need to sign anyone.
You don't sign guys with the snap of a finger in FA. There's a process. There are agents and relationships. Players are picky and weird and likely even aloof. FA Players will narrow their choices down to a select few cities. Agents will burn bridges with certain franchises and craft relationships with others. There are so many moving parts involved it's beyond out knowledge. But you just know Reese is ignoring the TE position.
So Cook was 'killing them softly'.
The Giants would not be playing yesterday if they signed Jared cook. This isn't rob gronkowski we're talking about here. He's a solid receiving TE that is average at blocking. He also missed the majority of this season. I'm sure everyone would be giving Reese a pass for spending 3 million plus on an injured mediocre TE.
Reese and the Giants will address the offense this spring .
Now, again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall any TE buzz this offseason. You're right, I'm not a fly on Jerry Reese's wall, so I have no idea if he made calls to Jared Cook or whover. BUT, the big caveat is that nowadays, the casual fan is entrenched via beat writers and information is passed along quite easily.
During this offseason, I do not recall any visits by FA TEs, asshat info, rumors of interest or even any kind of buzz re: TEs. We brought in, I think, Ryan Malleck. That's it. So that tells me right there, that JR had no interest in upgrading the TE position. It tells me he was satisfied with the duo of Tye and Donnell. THIS IS WHAT IS SO DISCONCERTING.
Hell, maybe it's just perception. If it was public information that 2 or 3 TEs made visits, then it is perceived that Jerry made an effort. We all know, in New York, perception is everything. Ask Odell. Now, I'm sure JR does his due diligence, but the TE situation still smells rotten to me.
Or maybe it says JR is looking for "Football Players" and no FA TE passed his criteria for the position.
By the way, how did the Giants win with Boss or Ballard ? These guys are not all stars
I think Adams has a shot to be good though.
Now, again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall any TE buzz this offseason. You're right, I'm not a fly on Jerry Reese's wall, so I have no idea if he made calls to Jared Cook or whover. BUT, the big caveat is that nowadays, the casual fan is entrenched via beat writers and information is passed along quite easily.
During this offseason, I do not recall any visits by FA TEs, asshat info, rumors of interest or even any kind of buzz re: TEs. We brought in, I think, Ryan Malleck. That's it. So that tells me right there, that JR had no interest in upgrading the TE position. It tells me he was satisfied with the duo of Tye and Donnell. THIS IS WHAT IS SO DISCONCERTING.
Hell, maybe it's just perception. If it was public information that 2 or 3 TEs made visits, then it is perceived that Jerry made an effort. We all know, in New York, perception is everything. Ask Odell. Now, I'm sure JR does his due diligence, but the TE situation still smells rotten to me.
Well GOLLY GEE! you didn't hear ANYTHING???? Well that is DISCONCERTING! If you didn't hear about, then that seals it for me!
Settle the fuck down.
Settle the fuck down.
Thanks for your input. Now, go fuck yourself.
Quote:
Well GOLLY GEE! you didn't hear ANYTHING???? Well that is DISCONCERTING! If you didn't hear about, then that seals it for me!
Settle the fuck down.
Thanks for your input. Now, go fuck yourself.
You are welcome!
The only thing holding back his production was the QB position. He went from Vince Young to the garbage the Rams had the past few years.
Cook may drop and occasional ball but he has elite speed and is a matchup problem. That's something we don't have.
I'm not down on Tye as many here but Cook would have made us a much better team.
When he's healthy he helps any team.
If he has a QB the production would be there.
Giants would have been better with him. He's a FA this year they should bring him in.
Obviously have to discount a bit on both ends, so who's the real Jared Cook?
The Giants as an organization miscalculated with several of their decisions and nailed several others. They made their evaluation of the TE's on their roster, made their evaluation of the TE's on the market, and they decided to sign with Will Johnson, who subsequently got hurt. I'm sure they put a price on Cook that included what he would be worth on a one year deal and what kind of longterm contract they might consider. I imagine there was a conversation between Reese and Cook's agent at some point in the process.
For whatever reason, Cook's agent preferred the situation in Green Bay. For all we know the Giants offered $3M on a one year deal and he decided he was in a better position to maximize his future earnings by taken a little less money to play for the Packers.
I'm sure Cook would've preferred a longterm contract from somebody but nobody was making him an acceptable offer. He opted for a one-year prove-it-to-me deal and who could blame him for picking the Packers as the best place for him to improve his resume.
So to assume the Giants "didn't do their due diligence" or were "arrogant" is just not fair given our limited information. The Giants were very active and did great in free agency last year. You shouldn't complain about the fact they didn't have a crystal ball.
Cook was a perfect fit for the GB offense and Rodgers makes him look great/makes up for his drops (try to remember, for example, that he dropped two HUGE passes before making the big one). You think you hate Larry Donnell? Cook was routinely destroyed by Rams fans for being a bonehead that botched simple plays. This was the comment in the St. Louis Dispatch today on the game:
Yes, that was the ex-Ram that let pass after pass after pass carom off his chest during his time as the most-overpaid athlete in St. Louis. He pulled off the double-toe drag on the last-second reception to set up the game-winning field goal.
This is one of those situations where the whole league probably missed on him a bit. I just can't beat Jerry Reese up for not thinking that guy was an answer. Nobody did.
To be fair, our 1 TE FA signing was on IR all year (Will Johnson). A guy - like Robinson - who was seen as a low-key high impact signing who would be THE blocking TE we needed: the H-Back, FB, and TE blocker. Also, our regular FB Whitlock also missed the season the same way.
It wasn't that he didn't address it. I figure they didn't want to keep throwing money at a problem that might not need it. If Donnell showed his promise that might be expected, our TEs could have been a strength. With Tye being small at the TE spot, he could develop into that H-Back type. Plus, we drafted Adams.
It was an optimistic plan once Johnson and Whitlock went down, but it wasn't like he did nothing.
Sure. I didn't like our TEs going into the season at all...but I don't know that there were a bunch of options there either. Like I said, I was interested in Vernon Davis. Marty B would have been good (though I don't know if him coming back was an option on either side). Other than that, who are we talking about? Because criticizing a GM for not addressing a position is pretty silly unless you have specific options that he should have, but didn't, take. The point above is simply that I'm not going to really blame Reese for not viewing Cook as an option. Basically nobody did.
P.S. Sunday was only the third time in a 117 games that Cook had over a 100 receiving yards in a game.
A few posters opted to bring attention to the signing of Will Johnson as evidence that Jerry did try to improve our TE talent, and certainly is not responsible for injuries to signed players. But Will was not and is not a TE. He was/is our Fullback/HBack.
My issue isn't with the contention that Reese failed to improve the TE position, but with the people saying that it was out of arrogance or sloppiness. The Giants were very serious about improving the team last offseason and were obviously very aggressive in free agency. You can bet for certain that they spent many hours evaluating the TE's on their roster, what was available in free agency, and what was available in the draft. And then they went about implementing the plan. None of us know who they pursued and how hard they pursued them.
Bottomline is that last February and March, thirty-two teams put together a plan for the 2017 season. Only one of them will get to claim their plan was successful and it won't be the Giants.
My issue isn't with the contention that Reese failed to improve the TE position, but with the people saying that it was out of arrogance or sloppiness. The Giants were very serious about improving the team last offseason and were obviously very aggressive in free agency. You can bet for certain that they spent many hours evaluating the TE's on their roster, what was available in free agency, and what was available in the draft. And then they went about implementing the plan. None of us know who they pursued and how hard they pursued them.
Bottomline is that last February and March, thirty-two teams put together a plan for the 2017 season. Only one of them will get to claim their plan was successful and it won't be the Giants.
Good post, Milton. And overall, I agree with the premise that the team was improved upon and was very aggressive in FA. But in regards to the specific position of TE, Reese failed. He cannot look at the players at that position and think, "We're good, I'll take a 6th round flyer to round out the group". That to me is arrogance. With regards to Will Johnson, it isn't me that is calling him a Fullback/HBack. On his twitter, he refers to himself as a Fullback/HBack. In the articles at the time of the signing, there was no inference that his signing was meant to bolster the TE position.
My issue isn't with the contention that Reese failed to improve the TE position, but with the people saying that it was out of arrogance or sloppiness. The Giants were very serious about improving the team last offseason and were obviously very aggressive in free agency. You can bet for certain that they spent many hours evaluating the TE's on their roster, what was available in free agency, and what was available in the draft. And then they went about implementing the plan. None of us know who they pursued and how hard they pursued them.
Bottomline is that last February and March, thirty-two teams put together a plan for the 2017 season. Only one of them will get to claim their plan was successful and it won't be the Giants.
Milton in other words he had Plan "A" but no Plan "B"? And you feel that is okay?
Add to that the fact that not only did he NOT have a backup plan but that he screwed up putting him on season ending IR for a burner that he could have avoided if he waited one more day to put him on IR as an official part of the seasons 53 man roster.
How is that not sloppiness?
"Yes, I'm both," said Johnson, who did divulge he is currently working out of the tight ends position room. "The more I can do to contribute to this offense and help out, I'm more than capable of doing. Whether that's fullback, tight end, short yardage runner, whatever. I did that all in Pittsburgh, so I'm familiar with it."
The reason Johnson is relevant here, whatever you want to call him, is that I do think the plan was to get him ON the field and our lackluster TEs OFF the field. They also drafted someone to compete at the spot.
What's lost in a lot of the above analysis is the question of what was available to Reese. He may NOT have been satisfied with where the position stood...that doesn't always mean there's a viable answer out there. You can't just say we needed to address TE, he didn't, therefore it's a fail. Like I said above, if what we're saying here is we had a hole at TE and Reese didn't think Cook would fill it as well as Johnson....I'm not gonna kill him for that.
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He was IR'd for the season due to a burner which is somewhat odd to begin with. All they had to do was wait one day and he could have come back to play this season. But once they IR'd him they basically gave up on the spot, the burner happened the first preseason game, they had 4 weeks to figure it out.
Definitely if your going to use that one move Vereen is the choice. It just came across as a last min scramble on their part which I feel has cost us big time this year
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but let's not forget that we ended up bringing Vereen back as the designated to return player. If the choice came down to Vereen or a TE/FB they had never seen in a real game in blue, they may still have gone with Vereen, hard to say.
Definitely if your going to use that one move Vereen is the choice. It just came across as a last min scramble on their part which I feel has cost us big time this year
I agree, in retrospect, it was mishandled (especially in light of the fact that I think we cut someone in the next few days to add Josh Johnson...so presumably they could have just cut that person a few days earlier, IR'd W. Johnson, and then added J. Johnson). But how could it have cost us big time if you agree he's not the guy we would have brought back?
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In comment 13331865 Giantfan in skinland said:
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but let's not forget that we ended up bringing Vereen back as the designated to return player. If the choice came down to Vereen or a TE/FB they had never seen in a real game in blue, they may still have gone with Vereen, hard to say.
Definitely if your going to use that one move Vereen is the choice. It just came across as a last min scramble on their part which I feel has cost us big time this year
I agree, in retrospect, it was mishandled (especially in light of the fact that I think we cut someone in the next few days to add Josh Johnson...so presumably they could have just cut that person a few days earlier, IR'd W. Johnson, and then added J. Johnson). But how could it have cost us big time if you agree he's not the guy we would have brought back?
Don't IR him for a burner in the first place
He does his job before that, and that ridiculous catch isn't even necessary.