Our WRs and TEs as a group aren't up to par

and outside of Eli/OBj, we have no playmakers....

Beckham and Shepard are pretty damn good.

It's TE where we need help. Another WR would be nice, but we have arguably the best WR in football and a guy who will be a very good slot WR.

In comment 13327686 Eric from BBI said:

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Beckham and Shepard are pretty damn good. It's TE where we need help. Another WR would be nice, but we have arguably the best WR in football and a guy who will be a very good slot WR.

SS will be ineffective against cover 2s. Right now he is a red zone threat. But as far as big plays, he cant provide them.

This team needs a TE in the worst way and new OL so we can run the ball and get teams out of cover 2.

He is basically the towel boy on Michigan from the movie The Waterboy. Williams has always underperformed. Out of all the teams you choose Dallas' weapons? GB, Atlanta, NE, KC, amd PIT all would have been better.

Williams: 44 catches, 594 yards, and 4 TDs

Beasley: 75 catches, 833 yards, and 5 TDs.

Not really eye-popping stats.

In comment 13327725 robbieballs2003 said:

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Williams: 44 catches, 594 yards, and 4 TDs Beasley: 75 catches, 833 yards, and 5 TDs. Not really eye-popping stats.

Are stats the whole story? Bc if they are reuben randle was much. Etter than cruz.

In comment 13327686 Eric from BBI said:

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Beckham and Shepard are pretty damn good. It's TE where we need help. Another WR would be nice, but we have arguably the best WR in football and a guy who will be a very good slot WR.

Totally disagree. We need someone on the outside with a larger catch radius for Eli. Too easy to double Beckham and single up the slot.

In comment 13327729 Josh in the City said:

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In comment 13327686 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Beckham and Shepard are pretty damn good. It's TE where we need help. Another WR would be nice, but we have arguably the best WR in football and a guy who will be a very good slot WR. Totally disagree. We need someone on the outside with a larger catch radius for Eli. Too easy to double Beckham and single up the slot.

You have to get teams out of cover 2. It makes SS better. What better way to do that? Running the ball and a TE. Even with a bigger WR, you still see cover 2.

In comment 13327727 Old Dirty Beckham said:

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In comment 13327725 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Williams: 44 catches, 594 yards, and 4 TDs Beasley: 75 catches, 833 yards, and 5 TDs. Not really eye-popping stats. Are stats the whole story? Bc if they are reuben randle was much. Etter than cruz.

No, stats are not the whole story but if you are going to talk about how our weapons do not match up then there needs to be production. Has Williams every produced? The strength of the Cowboys is their OL not their WR. Dez is great. After that ... not much. Witten is crafty and still finds ways to get open.

I think if we had a legit TE and we had benched Victor Cruz, our offensive weapons would have been on par with Dallas easily.

Cruz is done. We have no TE. I'm more optimistic about some of the WR's currently on our roster than most others. That said, I expect we'll still add a WR.

But if we don't get a legit TE, it won't matter.

I'm. It sure why people think McAdoo is some type of top tier offensive mind. He's a d inexperienced HC. How 2 years as OC makes him some x and o savant as well is pretty weird. We can pound this over and over but next year the O Will get more talent from the draft and free agency. It will be a interesting if he can use it to reignite the O. This year the D totally carried the team. The offense was for good reason on S of the worst in the NFL.

It's never about coaching here. If it's only about talent then why did they can TC? It's both. He. Sees to do a lot better. Either he does better or he lets Sullivan(or another OC) call plays and have some input.

look at Edelman's game against the Texans

we need OL, TE and a running game

and give a chance for Lewis and King and rookie pick to shine.

Need a new TE from the draft or vet FA

Aren't up to par.

because they were running wide open against the same Green Bay secondary that held us down last week. I know Dallas runs it better than us but Williams and Beasley got loose often and easily.

In comment 13327793 LCtheINTMachine said:

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because they were running wide open against the same Green Bay secondary that held us down last week. I know Dallas runs it better than us but Williams and Beasley got loose often and easily.

that's what's so frustrating. EVERY team seems to get better separation than us

This idea that he has a problem wth cover 2 is one of the stranger things I've read on BBI. It's complete nonsense.

The rookie Shepard is already better than the Dallas #2.

We need more help at 3 and 4. We need a TE. We need better OL play. We are in good shape at 1 and 2 WR.

In comment 13327791 RAIN said:

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Aren't up to par.

I'd change that to the OLINE isn't up to par.

An average to good OLINE upgrades each skill position +10, if this were Madden ratings. A great OLINE, +25.

Jennings would have better YPC, Cruz would get open, Eli would have better numbers across the board...

Blocking, running and catching balls from Rogers.

No argument a very good tight end is essential (the Packers' Cook proved that tonight; Witten is not slowing down). I'm not sure if Cook is an excellent blocking tight end (or if it matters as many here are convinced) - if you have an excellent blocking fullback.

Only way , I keep Cruz is if he takes vet minimum and serves as a back-up to Shepard at SLOT. I think Taverres king can be our Davonte Adams at the other wide receiver position.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packers/0ap3000000456802/Divisional-Round-Davante-Adams-highlights

But none of that matters with Ereck Flowers blowing pass blocking assignments on Eli Manning's blind side.

Priorities as I see it ...

(1) A REAL pass blocking left tackle

(2) A pass catching tight end

(3) An excellent fullback

(4) A good DE to help fill the gap when JPP leaves

Will go extremely far in making out WR's and Offense as a whole much better

becoming one of the best receivers in the NFC.

He had a good rookie season, but the buzz has faded.

Shepard mostly played in the slot and had numbers of a possession receiver: 8 TDs and 42 1st downs, but only six catches of over 20 yards, with a long of 32.

Does everyone agree that Shepard is "just" a possession receiver? If and when he played outside receiver, could his numbers rise to those of an outstanding receiver, or do his physical limitations just make him a possession receiver fit only for playing the slot?

Unless you're QB Tom Brady and you consistently get all the time in the world to pick apart your opponents. (The rare times he doesn't he looks very mortal).

When I think of Brady, I see him standing tall, not hurried, picking from his best four or five targets. (Maybe the Pats don't have the best run blocking O-line, but sure have some very good pass blocking, while he's been there.)

In contrast, what do we have ? Piss poor pass blocking (which we try to compensate with a quick & short passing game). Forget about surveying the field for secondary receivers. If the first one isn't open,you do the best you can, else throw the ball away.

In comment 13327817 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:

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becoming one of the best receivers in the NFC. He had a good rookie season, but the buzz has faded. Shepard mostly played in the slot and had numbers of a possession receiver: 8 TDs and 42 1st downs, but only six catches of over 20 yards, with a long of 32. Does everyone agree that Shepard is "just" a possession receiver? If and when he played outside receiver, could his numbers rise to those of an outstanding receiver, or do his physical limitations just make him a possession receiver fit only for playing the slot?

I think he is that and can improve given he isn't our only alternative to OBJ. He was our second best player on offense. IMO we need all three of a power RB, #1 TE, and Z WR. Then Shep may show to be even more of a threat. Either way, he's a solid slot WR and most importantly he didn't miss time with injury. Consistency will only help Eli get a rhythm which we lacked too often.

Make the players look good or bad our QB play this year was not stella and we never got our offense going. For sure our line needs to be better but in the end our QB has to produce and that did not happen often enough this year. Cruz may be done but the play calls for our TE's and WR's other than OBJ just did not attack the field deep very often. Eli gets sacked every QB does but it's the plays not made that should result in big plays which each year number way to many for an explosive offense to bring fear into the defense.

it appeared we ran about 4 different plays. No imagination. You could practically tell everytime we were going to run. Our QB has no mobility. QB sneak on 4th and short? Out of the question. QB keeper on the goaline? Never going to happen. Look how Rogers fades to either side and hits his receivers. Same with Preston. There are so many differences. And I don't mean to say Eli is bad I'm just pointing our some differences.Eli is a very good QB but not athletic.And Jennings as good as a guy as he appears to be is a jag. Perkins? Time will tell. Protecting the Duke? Oh please.This offense was horrible.

...should not be at wide receiver.

Rather, whether or not Giants management finally raises the white flag on over-drafting Ereck Flowers.

THAT is our #1 worry. Will they swallow their bullshit pride and finally admit their mistake???

Giants have to kick Flowers inside or to the other side, and then they need 2 high-performing O-linemen who are not on the current roster and a 2-way TE as well.

A 2 way TE would make a huge difference. When was the last time the Giants played someone at TE that would even start on another team? IMHO TE is the weakest position on the current roster because I don't have insight on the Pittsburgh player who went on IRAQ.

Then if you said OL and TE I would agree. With lots of draft resources committed to OL I could see them trying FA this year as the only significant starter they try to add be OL.

to get open this year. A better line would help, but the WRs have to win early. They didn't do that on a consistent enough basis.

Its obvious we need a better line, but we need better play from the #2 outside receiver and the TE.

In comment 13327729 Josh in the City said:

Quote:

In comment 13327686 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Beckham and Shepard are pretty damn good. It's TE where we need help. Another WR would be nice, but we have arguably the best WR in football and a guy who will be a very good slot WR. Totally disagree. We need someone on the outside with a larger catch radius for Eli. Too easy to double Beckham and single up the slot.

How can anyone totally disagree that the Giants are in need of a legit TE at this point? Should we re-sign Leaping Larry, or, hope that Adams pans out?

I understand we need a WR on the outside, and agree we should address it this offseason, but I don't think you realize how much a good TE could've done for this offense.

is what having a solid offensive line does for a QB's confidence. There were a couple of instances in yesterdays game where pressure forced Rodgers into making bad decisions, which is what Manning has to deal with most of the time. The difference between our left tackle and Green Bays is enormous...and not having any holding penalties doesn't hurt either.

I also agree with many in this thread that Cruz, if kept should be as s back up slot receiver, but he would have to be paid at least $5 million less or be released.

Many positions need upgrading: LT, RG, RT, TE, RB depth and FB. Will Johnson should help at FB/HB. Flower could and should be moved to the right side, I'm betting he goes to RT. I can see Leary from Dallas brought in for RG. The biggest question is what to do with the LT position? Whitworth at age 35 is a possibility. Rieff from Detroit?

TE should be drafted early. I love OJ Howard I'm just not sure Reese would invest a 1st round pick for a TE.

TE would be AFTER the OL gets fixed. WR is not even on the list for me right now.

We need three new starting offensive linemen on this team. We get almost completely dominated by opposing defenses when we try to run.

We cannot go into next season with this same offensive line and pray that OBJ makes a spectacular play every game. Even his consistency is not there.

We have to think about what we would want this offense to look like if OBJ was out of the game due to injury. We would wish we had a dominant run game so we would not have to rely on passing to mediocre WRs to win.

Did you see the time both Rodgers and Prescott had to throw? Think our WRs could get more separation with that extra time? And part of that was the TEs chipping on their way to pass routes as well as blocking on running plays.

In comment 13327817 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:

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becoming one of the best receivers in the NFC. He had a good rookie season, but the buzz has faded. Shepard mostly played in the slot and had numbers of a possession receiver: 8 TDs and 42 1st downs, but only six catches of over 20 yards, with a long of 32. Does everyone agree that Shepard is "just" a possession receiver? If and when he played outside receiver, could his numbers rise to those of an outstanding receiver, or do his physical limitations just make him a possession receiver fit only for playing the slot?

He's a possession guy. Not particularly fast and not particularly big. If he had any size or speed, he would have been a first rounder.

Flowers- first round
Pugh-first round
Richberg-2nd round
Jerry- veteran FA signing (starter on NO)
Newhouse- veteran FA signing (starter on GB)

that's quite a bit of attention paid to the o-line

one of the reasons our WR's have dropped some deep balls is because they're so surprised Eli had time to throw it long.

And, yes, it's the TE's who are the weak link in the receiving corps, putting pressure on everybody else, including Eli.

In comment 13327799 KWALL2 said:

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This idea that he has a problem wth cover 2 is one of the stranger things I've read on BBI. It's complete nonsense. The rookie Shepard is already better than the Dallas #2. We need more help at 3 and 4. We need a TE. We need better OL play. We are in good shape at 1 and 2 WR.

He absolutely struggles. This isn't even a dispute. He goes quarters, not plays, without being a factor this year.

In comment 13327918 HomerJones45 said:

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Flowers- first round Pugh-first round Richberg-2nd round Jerry- veteran FA signing (starter on NO) Newhouse- veteran FA signing (starter on GB) that's quite a bit of attention paid to the o-line

Reese has been an absolute failure with our offensive line. That's why we were all sitting at home yesterday watching two better teams: Dallas and Green Bay. And so long as the Giants keep Ereck Flowers at Left Tackle, Jerry Reese will continue to be a failure.

Shepard is plenty fast to be an impact slot WR. To my eyes his biggest hurdle this year was slowing down to catch the ball. That should improve with reps.

is good in the red zone but not as good with yards after catch. He just doesn't play like a slot WR that gets open in the middle.

is the biggest WR on the team at 6'0/204 and our starting TE was Will Tye at 6'2. How any GM could look at that, see we have a bad running game and bad pass protection and think that is a formula for success is beyond me. How any GM could think that would be a formula for success with a QB who likes to throw to spots to have his WR's compete for the ball rather than take sacks and whose errant passes tend to be high, is jaw-droppingly foolish.

maybe in the league. he never ops to take a few yards that are there when recievers are covered and makes bone headed decisions. there I said it

have at it

i do not want another 5 years of Eli we need to face reality

We had 3 WR's that are undersized and one has lost the key skill that made his excel which is speed. Cruz was average at best this year. We had no J. Jones type starter meaning size and speed. A Plax model type receiver, which I believe is a big hole in our O coupled with no consistent running game, it just brings on the cover two each and every game. And since I am bitching we also lack a LT.

In comment 13328014 gtt350 said:

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maybe in the league. he never ops to take a few yards that are there when recievers are covered and makes bone headed decisions. there I said it have at it i do not want another 5 years of Eli we need to face reality

Que?

showed how important a true TE can help. A good TE will even help in the running game. Look at all the different formations and mismatches a TE can make and yet the Giants ignore this position. Hopefully we get a couple good NFL TEs during the offseason.

forget that the O-line got push off the line for every running play, and that they have LeVeon Bell, and that they have Odell's comparable in Beckham, it seemed like there were a number of times that Ben threw a crappy pass in the middle of hte field 8.5 feet in the air that his monster TE Jesse James could jump up and snag out of the air for a first down to keep alive the drive.

Beckham can't be the only HR hitter and only safety valve on the team, especially at 5'11.

es el tiempo para nueve qb

3-day weekend bender?

In comment 13327918 HomerJones45 said:

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Flowers- first round Pugh-first round Richberg-2nd round Jerry- veteran FA signing (starter on NO) Newhouse- veteran FA signing (starter on GB) that's quite a bit of attention paid to the o-line

I see 3 guys that were picked way ahead of their perceived value, 1 guy who should've been benched and 1 guy who did get benched.

I like our WRs corps

now TEs, and Tackles -- that needs work

and different coaches...our receivers still can't get separation. I don't buy it.

In comment 13328059 SHO'NUFF said:

Quote:

In comment 13327918 HomerJones45 said: Quote: Flowers- first round Pugh-first round Richberg-2nd round Jerry- veteran FA signing (starter on NO) Newhouse- veteran FA signing (starter on GB) that's quite a bit of attention paid to the o-line I see 3 guys that were picked way ahead of their perceived value, 1 guy who should've been benched and 1 guy who did get benched.

so in other words, Reese has done a poor job IYO?

In comment 13327918 HomerJones45 said:

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Flowers- first round Pugh-first round Richberg-2nd round Jerry- veteran FA signing (starter on NO) Newhouse- veteran FA signing (starter on GB) that's quite a bit of attention paid to the o-line

Pugh and Richburg were very good picks. Jerry/Newhouse were signed as veteran depth, not as legitimate starters. Just look at the value of the deals they got, relative to what good, not even great, OL get.

And while I agree that the argument Reese ignores the OL is garbage, the inability of Flowers to play to his top 10 pick status is certainly a knock against Reese. Poor talent evaluation or more likely poor evaluation of his work ethic since (IMO) Flowers has the physical tools to be a LT, but still struggles with consistency and technique.

how is it that we went this whole season with out ever solving the 2 high safety defense that gave us fits all year and took Beckum out of our offense so much...

Where he disapears and your reason is he cant handle cover 2?

I have never in my life heard that about a WR. Never. It makes no sense and saying he disappeared for stretches doesn't give it any merit at all.

Making that opinion about Shepard off even more is when consider the real problems of this offense (OL, running game, TE threat.). These 3 weaknesses are the real issues vs cover 2. It sure as hell isnt the rookie WR with 4.4 speed and 40" vertical.

In comment 13328100 Jersey55 said:

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how is it that we went this whole season with out ever solving the 2 high safety defense that gave us fits all year and took Beckum out of our offense so much...

The personel didn't change the whole season.

are more coaching and thats on the OL coaches, he has the physical tools and size but isnt making the grade at LT this was attributed to the injuries and being a rookie year 1, but if anything he went backwards that wasnt reese's fault he was scouted to probably be a RT but had the tools to possibly develop into a LT given enough time/coaching and thats been bourne out i dont think RT at number 9 is the disaster that some do personally

the refusal to move flowers during the offseason cost them a chance at signing the OT's that were available,as was the lack of effort to sign one of what was a strong TE FA group as well.it was clear that TE and OL were key weaknesses on the team that were not addressed, i will give adams a bit of time to prove himself before we write him off but they need another TE in the mould of ballard going forward

going into another season without replacing newhouse and jerry was always going to be a huge mistake it cost eli another superbowl run (he looked sharp at the start of the wildcard game) and this IS on reese,the draft was his best since his 2007 group and he needs to continue to draft like this next offseason but he also needs to find a starting RT,RG,pass catching TE and a true outside WR to play opposite beckham if they want to go further or have a shot to win the division next year

In comment 13328335 njm said:

Quote:

In comment 13328100 Jersey55 said: Quote: how is it that we went this whole season with out ever solving the 2 high safety defense that gave us fits all year and took Beckum out of our offense so much... The personel didn't change the whole season.

this seems to me to be more of a coaching problem in that other defensive coaches have been able to neutralize our star player and we weren't able to find a solution to that....