-KP hopeful he can play today, Hornacek deemed him "doubtful" last night. If he's borderline then he shouldn't play.
"When asked to respond to that particular line in the article, Anthony said: “If that’s the case than that’s what’s coming from that side I guess it’s a conversation we should have. If they feel like my time in New York is over I guess that’s a conversation we should have.”
During Anthony’s post-game interview session with reporters on Sunday, Anthony was informed twice that the article was not written by Jackson but instead a close friend. Anthony, though, had no trouble connecting the dots, suggesting that it is more than a coincidence that the writer who criticized him in the piece has a relationship with the Knicks team president.
“Listen,” Anthony said, “if that’s what they feel…if that’s what’s coming from that side that’s what’s coming from that side. I haven’t thought once about that to be honest with you. I hear it. I hear all the rhetoric that’s going on out there and I still come to work every day and play and bust my ass and try not to worry about it.”
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No. This is completely false. Derrick Rose can help a shit load of teams and make them better. However, who in the east is going to want him? They arent beating cleveland anyways. So why give up anything substantial for him?
No one is giving up good, young talent for a bloated contract who will probably leave at the end of the year anyways. Like I said, maybe a SA, maybe a Memphis would take him if they can match salaries and Rose accepts coming off the bench.
Good point but the kicker is around 3.5 mill (15%) I believe. You could include Pierce or other salary filler to make it work. The framework is there.
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due respect but you can't have it both ways. Either Rose isn't as good as you are suggesting or he has legit trade value. A really good NBA player with no money beyond this year has trade value.
No. This is completely false. Derrick Rose can help a shit load of teams and make them better. However, who in the east is going to want him? They arent beating cleveland anyways. So why give up anything substantial for him?
No one is giving up good, young talent for a bloated contract who will probably leave at the end of the year anyways. Like I said, maybe a SA, maybe a Memphis would take him if they can match salaries and Rose accepts coming off the bench.
#1 Why are only East teams a consideration?
#2 You keep suggesting Rose is really good, a difference maker. If that's the case then why wouldn't every team close to Cleveland/GSW be interested? He's either really good or he's not. Teams don't just stick their heads in the sand and say "meh, we can't beat those teams". Why is there reported interest in Dragic? Reggie Jackson?
getting melo will at least give them a shot at gs..
Heavily protected/ late 1sts or even future 1sts? I could definitely see it. Crawford was 6th man of the year and Lee fits a need many teams have.
Also, looking at the current standing, the Knicks are currently 12th in the lottery. They really aren't that far off from jumping into the top 5. Check out the website NBA tankathon- great site.
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In comment 13329587 DanMetroMan said:
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due respect but you can't have it both ways. Either Rose isn't as good as you are suggesting or he has legit trade value. A really good NBA player with no money beyond this year has trade value.
No. This is completely false. Derrick Rose can help a shit load of teams and make them better. However, who in the east is going to want him? They arent beating cleveland anyways. So why give up anything substantial for him?
No one is giving up good, young talent for a bloated contract who will probably leave at the end of the year anyways. Like I said, maybe a SA, maybe a Memphis would take him if they can match salaries and Rose accepts coming off the bench.
#1 Why are only East teams a consideration?
#2 You keep suggesting Rose is really good, a difference maker. If that's the case then why wouldn't every team close to Cleveland/GSW be interested? He's either really good or he's not. Teams don't just stick their heads in the sand and say "meh, we can't beat those teams". Why is there reported interest in Dragic? Reggie Jackson?
i think because dragic and jackson are sogned long term they are more valuable..
in todays growing salary cap a free agent to be is going to cost you a lot more finacially then guys already on long contracts
Wheres the fit? You trade Rose for Joseph and Sullinger - you still have to add 5 million to the trade to make it work for Toronto. They have a lot of young assets they arent giving up and that means you have to include Ross, and now you are gutting their team.
Boston with Thomas, Bradley, Smart - the need for him is minimized and they should be looking at a Butler more so than Rose.
And even as high I am on Rose - adding him to either squad still doesnt make them as good as Cleveland.
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In comment 13329587 DanMetroMan said:
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due respect but you can't have it both ways. Either Rose isn't as good as you are suggesting or he has legit trade value. A really good NBA player with no money beyond this year has trade value.
No. This is completely false. Derrick Rose can help a shit load of teams and make them better. However, who in the east is going to want him? They arent beating cleveland anyways. So why give up anything substantial for him?
No one is giving up good, young talent for a bloated contract who will probably leave at the end of the year anyways. Like I said, maybe a SA, maybe a Memphis would take him if they can match salaries and Rose accepts coming off the bench.
#1 Why are only East teams a consideration?
#2 You keep suggesting Rose is really good, a difference maker. If that's the case then why wouldn't every team close to Cleveland/GSW be interested? He's either really good or he's not. Teams don't just stick their heads in the sand and say "meh, we can't beat those teams". Why is there reported interest in Dragic? Reggie Jackson?
Rose is the complete antithesis of what the Spurs/Pops system is predicated on. I would be stunned if they would be interested even for free.
This is the Rose fallacy. He's back! Any the Knicks got him for literally nothing of value! And he has no positive trade value if we want to move him!
The truth is that he's not back. Right now he's a #3 guard. He shouldnt start for a good team, but he could headline a 2nd unit and play some 2 guard with the starters. If it wasnt so hard to match his contract in a trade, there would be a limited market for him.
Korver BTW brought back a #1 in like 3 or 4 years. And I'd probably rather have him than Rose as a bench player -- Korver plays a very heady game and spaces the floor. He fits into more lineups.
I am pretty stunned that they didnt suspend him. That's on Phil. It was a massive mistake.
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due respect but you can't have it both ways. Either Rose isn't as good as you are suggesting or he has legit trade value. A really good NBA player with no money beyond this year has trade value.
This is the Rose fallacy. He's back! Any the Knicks got him for literally nothing of value! And he has no positive trade value if we want to move him!
The truth is that he's not back. Right now he's a #3 guard. He shouldnt start for a good team, but he could headline a 2nd unit and play some 2 guard with the starters. If it wasnt so hard to match his contract in a trade, there would be a limited market for him.
Korver BTW brought back a #1 in like 3 or 4 years. And I'd probably rather have him than Rose as a bench player -- Korver plays a very heady game and spaces the floor. He fits into more lineups.
But as much as you hate Rose you have to admit he can still take over a game and win one for you. Korver can't.
#1 Why are only East teams a consideration?
#2 You keep suggesting Rose is really good, a difference maker. If that's the case then why wouldn't every team close to Cleveland/GSW be interested? He's either really good or he's not. Teams don't just stick their heads in the sand and say "meh, we can't beat those teams". Why is there reported interest in Dragic? Reggie Jackson?
1. I just said the east because of no one is beating cleveland, so that eliminates half the league. I mentioned SA and Memphis. But none of the bottom teams are trading for Rose because why would they?
2. Dragic and Jackson both have 4 years left, so they cant leave after the year. Rose being a FA means why would anyone give up anything of value just to lose him at the end of the year?
If Rose were to make only 5 million this year - he would be traded about 2 weeks ago. A lot of teams cant take on his contract.
Rose has no value because of his contract, not because of his game.
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suspending Rose was a very bad look. The fine suggests they realize it was a very poor decision (200K fine is pretty unusual) but it sent a bad message to a team that looks disjointed/lazy. He should have been suspended and the public message should have been "enough is enough, guys who work their asses off and want to be here will play regardless of salary and numbers".
I am pretty stunned that they didnt suspend him. That's on Phil. It was a massive mistake.
The size of the fine suggests they agree it was a big deal.. and yet didn't have the guts to suspend him. It helps add to the perception the Knicks are the last remaining circus in MSG. If there is anything the GM/coach can do for a mediocre team it's lay down the law, set the effort expectations. If a Rose, or a Melo or even a KP (not that he's ever done this) lack for effort, let it show up in their playing time. let them sulk, who cares?
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value is one thing, zero value is another. If Rose is a top PG in the NBA a borderline contender is giving up a future #1 (and more) for him in a league where Korver just brought back a #1. There is a difference between huge value and very little value. I am suggesting Rose has close to none because he's an awful defender, a weirdo and openly still thinks he's a superstar. Guess we shall see before the deadline/kind of deal he signs.
Rose has no value because of his contract, not because of his game.
Actually this is completely wrong. Rose's contract is why he has ANY value right now. It's an expiring deal. Those always have value.
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In comment 13329587 DanMetroMan said:
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due respect but you can't have it both ways. Either Rose isn't as good as you are suggesting or he has legit trade value. A really good NBA player with no money beyond this year has trade value.
This is the Rose fallacy. He's back! Any the Knicks got him for literally nothing of value! And he has no positive trade value if we want to move him!
The truth is that he's not back. Right now he's a #3 guard. He shouldnt start for a good team, but he could headline a 2nd unit and play some 2 guard with the starters. If it wasnt so hard to match his contract in a trade, there would be a limited market for him.
Korver BTW brought back a #1 in like 3 or 4 years. And I'd probably rather have him than Rose as a bench player -- Korver plays a very heady game and spaces the floor. He fits into more lineups.
But as much as you hate Rose you have to admit he can still take over a game and win one for you. Korver can't.
Me calling Rose a #3 guard isnt hating on him.
Rose "can take over" a game and win it for you in the same sense that JR Smith can do it. If you're looking to those guys to do that with any regularity, you probably suck. Why would Cleveland want JR to take over when they have three amazing offensive superstars?
Korver is a better defender and can nail down 3s. That's super valuable in the NBA. Korver just standing in the corner affects a defense.
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#1 Why are only East teams a consideration?
#2 You keep suggesting Rose is really good, a difference maker. If that's the case then why wouldn't every team close to Cleveland/GSW be interested? He's either really good or he's not. Teams don't just stick their heads in the sand and say "meh, we can't beat those teams". Why is there reported interest in Dragic? Reggie Jackson?
1. I just said the east because of no one is beating cleveland, so that eliminates half the league. I mentioned SA and Memphis. But none of the bottom teams are trading for Rose because why would they?
2. Dragic and Jackson both have 4 years left, so they cant leave after the year. Rose being a FA means why would anyone give up anything of value just to lose him at the end of the year?
Because this season matters too. If Rose is that good, if he's "back" then he helps a team compete for the NBA title and they can retain him (which they would surely want to do if he's that good/back). The cavs may be heavy favorites in the east but any "contender" adding a difference maker has a shot to knock off the top teams. Raptors with prime Rose can't knock off Cleveland? Spurs with prime Derrick Rose? Heck, even Utah.
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In comment 13329602 DanMetroMan said:
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suspending Rose was a very bad look. The fine suggests they realize it was a very poor decision (200K fine is pretty unusual) but it sent a bad message to a team that looks disjointed/lazy. He should have been suspended and the public message should have been "enough is enough, guys who work their asses off and want to be here will play regardless of salary and numbers".
I am pretty stunned that they didnt suspend him. That's on Phil. It was a massive mistake.
The size of the fine suggests they agree it was a big deal.. and yet didn't have the guts to suspend him. It helps add to the perception the Knicks are the last remaining circus in MSG. If there is anything the GM/coach can do for a mediocre team it's lay down the law, set the effort expectations. If a Rose, or a Melo or even a KP (not that he's ever done this) lack for effort, let it show up in their playing time. let them sulk, who cares?
Great points all around. It truly is remarkable he wasn't suspended for it. I think it warranted a multi game suspension and possibly even being cut. You can't go AWOL for a game, it's simply unheard of and contributes to the continually circus at MSG.
Actually this is completely wrong. Rose's contract is why he has ANY value right now. It's an expiring deal. Those always have value.
To who though? If you are going to trade Rose just to trade him, then yes you can trade him to a bottom feeder team like say Philly, Brooklyn, Dallas, or whoever. But you are not going to get anything substantial back from them. Maybe a 2nd rounder (and I am not saying thats a bad idea). But if you are looking for assets - you arent going to get them. No one is going to give up young, raw talent for an expiring deal. No one is going to give up a top 10 pick for a guy who is bolting at the end of the year.
Now if you feel like you are a PG away, lets say like Philly, you rather take on Jackson or Dragic, due to the fact they have 3 years left after this year.
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In comment 13329628 DanMetroMan said:
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value is one thing, zero value is another. If Rose is a top PG in the NBA a borderline contender is giving up a future #1 (and more) for him in a league where Korver just brought back a #1. There is a difference between huge value and very little value. I am suggesting Rose has close to none because he's an awful defender, a weirdo and openly still thinks he's a superstar. Guess we shall see before the deadline/kind of deal he signs.
Rose has no value because of his contract, not because of his game.
Actually this is completely wrong. Rose's contract is why he has ANY value right now. It's an expiring deal. Those always have value.
Except the whole league has a ton of cap space this offseason, and to trade for Rose you need to have almost $20 million in salaries to move back for him, and it is tough finding dead weight on best teams' books (go see for yourself). So I think dep's point about Rose's contract hurting him has a lot of merit.
Because this season matters too. If Rose is that good, if he's "back" then he helps a team compete for the NBA title and they can retain him (which they would surely want to do if he's that good/back). The cavs may be heavy favorites in the east but any "contender" adding a difference maker has a shot to knock off the top teams. Raptors with prime Rose can't knock off Cleveland? Spurs with prime Derrick Rose? Heck, even Utah.
Ok, but what teams who think are close to beating either GS or cleveland will take that risk? You say Toronto/Boston. Well Toronto cant match salaries. So they are out. You say Boston? Maybe, but they would be smarter going after Butler.
And who is saying this is prime Rose? This 17-4-4 with 46% Rose. He is not going to make a team like Utah a finals type team. I already said a team like SA should be interested. Make Mills a shooter off the bench and let Rose run some screen and rolls with LA/Gasol (rose and gasol had a lot of success doing that together). Now Rose's defense could be a problem in SA - but with better defenders and better coaches surrounding him - he could be hopefully passable.
WE AGREE!!!!
haha.
Just because he wants the contract, doesnt mean he will get it. So what he thinks he is a max player? Shit, there are a ton of max players in the NBA that are anything but them.
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In comment 13329636 dep026 said:
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In comment 13329628 DanMetroMan said:
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value is one thing, zero value is another. If Rose is a top PG in the NBA a borderline contender is giving up a future #1 (and more) for him in a league where Korver just brought back a #1. There is a difference between huge value and very little value. I am suggesting Rose has close to none because he's an awful defender, a weirdo and openly still thinks he's a superstar. Guess we shall see before the deadline/kind of deal he signs.
Rose has no value because of his contract, not because of his game.
Actually this is completely wrong. Rose's contract is why he has ANY value right now. It's an expiring deal. Those always have value.
Except the whole league has a ton of cap space this offseason, and to trade for Rose you need to have almost $20 million in salaries to move back for him, and it is tough finding dead weight on best teams' books (go see for yourself). So I think dep's point about Rose's contract hurting him has a lot of merit.
No. You don't. If you're under the cap you can absorb his contract into your cap for this season. You don't have to match salaries if the team has space to absorb his deal.
And thats why Detroit will continue to suck for years on end. If the give KCP a max deal. That means Drummond will have one. Jackson and Harris will have big deals and now you have a team stuck in purgatory. What an AWFUL situation that is. Thats worse the Knicks right now.
the knicks would have a much better record if they could just get stops..
Melo at least is cost controlled for 1 more year at a decent number and can start on playoff teams. Paying rose $15M a year this year (and possibly more the following years) to be a 6th man isn't ideal for many teams especially when the top teams have to worry about "super-maxing" their stars starting this offseason.
What way?
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I assume you feel the same way about Melo?
Melo at least is cost controlled for 1 more year at a decent number and can start on playoff teams. Paying rose $15M a year this year (and possibly more the following years) to be a 6th man isn't ideal for many teams especially when the top teams have to worry about "super-maxing" their stars starting this offseason.
And Melo is better than Rose, thus giving him more value immediately.
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will get a max deal in Detroit.
And thats why Detroit will continue to suck for years on end. If the give KCP a max deal. That means Drummond will have one. Jackson and Harris will have big deals and now you have a team stuck in purgatory. What an AWFUL situation that is. Thats worse the Knicks right now.
Wow that's really sad. I was starting to get high on Detroit for the way SVG was getting decent players at low cost and cuz of Drummond. But it's getting ridiculous now. Drummond has regressed this year (I really thought he could be a 20 and 15 player whilst being a defensive force) and there aren't many good shooters on a team that relies on shooting. I give SVG a lot of credit for being a good coach and making smart moves as a GM but it looks like Detroit has hit that ceiling.
And Melo is better than Rose, thus giving him more value immediately.
Trust me, this is highly debatable right now.
If in a vacuum you'd rather have Rose than Melo, there is really no point in discussing further. You're blinded by Melo hate. Melo is a much better player than Rose.
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They are similar players. I'd rather have Rose. Both guys have one high end talent(shooting vs driving) and do little else to help the team win. Personally, I'd rather have the guy that takes the ball to the rim more.
If in a vacuum you'd rather have Rose than Melo, there is really no point in discussing further. You're blinded by Melo hate. Melo is a much better player than Rose.
What does Melo do, other than shoot, that is so much better than Rose?
They both are below average defenders, neither pass the ball well, Melo doesnt rebound as well as he should. And since Melo isnt shooting as well - his value takes a hit.
Neither are top 50 players in the NBA at this point.
You would take that but how many playoff teams need that? If you look at any team that's not Cleveland/GS the need is more often than not a shooter. No playoff team needs a TO prone PG. Melo is much more of a plug in play option as a starter than rose. Not at all saying Melo would be a difference maker for these teams but he's certainly a better fit in the starting lineup of pretty much any playoff team in the trade market.
People keep talking about Melo like he played 5 years ago. He's nowhere near that guy anymore.
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And Melo is better than Rose, thus giving him more value immediately.
Trust me, this is highly debatable right now.
Let me put it this way. Melo can still score from anywhere on the floor, AND if you move him to PF his defense gets better.
Rose can't shoot and can't defend no matter where you put him.
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In comment 13329671 EricNY33 said:
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And Melo is better than Rose, thus giving him more value immediately.
Trust me, this is highly debatable right now.
Let me put it this way. Melo can still score from anywhere on the floor, AND if you move him to PF his defense gets better.
Rose can't shoot and can't defend no matter where you put him.
Fair points, but Melo at the 4 means no shot blocker near the rim, and he still wont be a good post defender.
The question is can Melo still score from anywhere on the court efficiently?
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They are similar players. I'd rather have Rose. Both guys have one high end talent(shooting vs driving) and do little else to help the team win. Personally, I'd rather have the guy that takes the ball to the rim more.
You would take that but how many playoff teams need that? If you look at any team that's not Cleveland/GS the need is more often than not a shooter. No playoff team needs a TO prone PG. Melo is much more of a plug in play option as a starter than rose. Not at all saying Melo would be a difference maker for these teams but he's certainly a better fit in the starting lineup of pretty much any playoff team in the trade market.
Very true. His ability to shoot from distance at least opens up the floor.