Let's Talk Cuts/Restructures!

Cruz - has lost 2-3 steps....
Thomas - injury after injury after injury
Jennings - just not productive

Jennings
JT Thomas are all goners.

I'd look to restructure DRC (not pay cut just guarantee some money to lower cap).

I'd extend Pugh to get his cap # down.

with anyone on your list. I'd agree on all accounts.

Cruz is likely a goner though can possibly save himself with a steep pay cut.

I think one of Jennings/Vereen is on the bubble. Cutting both leaves them too thin at RB (only Perkins/Winn/Darkwa remain) with no real veteran presence. And a vet replacement would likely cost as much as you'd save from cutting Jennings.

DRC should be safe. Can't get a nickel CB of his quality for the $4.5M in cap savings so cutting him is pointless.

I'd hesitate to simply cut Victor Cruz, and leave Beckham as the Veteran Elder Statesman among the WR group. Victor has some juice as the leader in that room. He's made his Bank....now might be a good time to restructure and give a little back.

You're listing their cap numbers, but the important part is the cap savings which is:

Cap Savings = Current Cap # - Dead Money (remaining pro-rated bonuses)

Here's an example with DRC:
2017 Base: $6.5M
2017 Pro-rated Bonus: $2
2018 Pro-rated Bonus: $2

2017 Cap Hit: $6.5M + $2M = $8.5M
Cap Savings: $8.5M - $4M = $4.5M

In comment 13329444 giants#1 said:

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Cruz is likely a goner though can possibly save himself with a steep pay cut. I think one of Jennings/Vereen is on the bubble. Cutting both leaves them too thin at RB (only Perkins/Winn/Darkwa remain) with no real veteran presence. And a vet replacement would likely cost as much as you'd save from cutting Jennings. DRC should be safe. Can't get a nickel CB of his quality for the $4.5M in cap savings so cutting him is pointless.

You forgot Rainey, and I think we can find a quality RB either through FA or the draft. I also think Perkins is the real deal: he proved he can block. I consider him a shiftier, but less powerful, Ahmad Bradshaw. (Probably not quite as good.)

In comment 13329456 giants#1 said:

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You're listing their cap numbers, but the important part is the cap savings which is: Cap Savings = Current Cap # - Dead Money (remaining pro-rated bonuses) Here's an example with DRC: 2017 Base: $6.5M 2017 Pro-rated Bonus: $2 2018 Pro-rated Bonus: $2 2017 Cap Hit: $6.5M + $2M = $8.5M Cap Savings: $8.5M - $4M = $4.5M

That's a great point. Is there a list for that somewhere?

Shows no sign of slowing up and probably is still the fastest player we have. Restructure and extend his contract and it will lower his cap number. Slot corners like him do not exist.

Absolute goners
1- Thomas
2- Jennings

Goners if they don't take paycut
1- Cruz

Bubble but keep at same price
1- Casillas
2- Vereen
3- DRC
4- Harris

In comment 13329457 Mike from SI said:

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In comment 13329444 giants#1 said: Quote: Cruz is likely a goner though can possibly save himself with a steep pay cut. I think one of Jennings/Vereen is on the bubble. Cutting both leaves them too thin at RB (only Perkins/Winn/Darkwa remain) with no real veteran presence. And a vet replacement would likely cost as much as you'd save from cutting Jennings. DRC should be safe. Can't get a nickel CB of his quality for the $4.5M in cap savings so cutting him is pointless. You forgot Rainey, and I think we can find a quality RB either through FA or the draft. I also think Perkins is the real deal: he proved he can block. I consider him a shiftier, but less powerful, Ahmad Bradshaw. (Probably not quite as good.)

Rainey is an UFA.

OverTheCap shows the cap #s and savings from cutting a player.
Link - ( New Window )

DRC.

Just let him play out 2017. Cutting him "only" saved 4.5M and then you still need a slot CB.

I'd simply let him play at the 8.5M cap number and draft or groom his replacement.

and 2017 he's essentially playing for his 2018 contract. Giants can cut him and save 6.5M on the cap or let him play it out at 8.5M in the final year of his deal.

I wouldn't mess with restructuring him because that usually results in more years and more guarantees (ie kicking the can down the road).

DRC = don't touch for 2017 IMO.

DRC's current deal is great for both team/player. No need to touch it.

Would not keep Cruz, or Thomas, at any cap cost but dead money next year. Nothing to develop. WRs who cannot get open and LBs who are always hurt can be easily replaced for League minimums.

Evaluating Jennings is above my pay grade, but common sense suggests he is easily replaceable in a strong draft for RBs.

I believe that with a talented, creative OC, rather than the ultra-conservative crap we have, Vereen becomes very important, particularly since Eli is not apt to be mistaken for Aaron Rogers.

when most football players tend to step off a cliff. Proceed with extreme caution, I wouldn't restructure him.

not a Slot CB.. He only plays slot because the defense is better with him there than outside.. But overall he is a much better outside CB than Apple and against faster quicker WR he is actually a better CB than even Jenkins.. you don't drop a player like him to save $4.5M in salary Cap..

In comment 13329515 Bob in Newburgh said:

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Would not keep Cruz, or Thomas, at any cap cost but dead money next year. Nothing to develop. WRs who cannot get open and LBs who are always hurt can be easily replaced for League minimums. Evaluating Jennings is above my pay grade, but common sense suggests he is easily replaceable in a strong draft for RBs. I believe that with a talented, creative OC, rather than the ultra-conservative crap we have, Vereen becomes very important, particularly since Eli is not apt to be mistaken for Aaron Rogers.

Only problem there is that you then have to use a finite resource (draft picks) on a RB when you (potentially) have your starting RB in Perkins and have many other holes (OL, TE, pass rusher if JPP leaves, etc). Now, if you don't think Perkins has starting potential or that he's better as a change of pace #2 RB, then it makes sense to draft another RB. Otherwise, keep one of Jennings/Vereen (at least until camp) and add some additional RB talent via UDFAs (or a late round pick).

He will be 31 when he steps on a field next year.

There is nothing to believe his game ending injury will have long term effects and it is certainly not a non-contact body breaking down injury.

Nothing suggested he was slowing down, and it is hard to make the claim that he did not play well. He is under contract for 2017 at an amount that is not out of line for a guy who makes a difference on the field. Oh that's right, we have Trevin Wade waiting in the wings for League minimum. We are saved!

It could change things a bit, but he's already making big coin for a slot corner.

pjcas nailed it. You let DRC play out the season on his still fair contract and then you can move on next year.

under his current deal.

Giants draft CB in rds 2-4 for depth and future nickel CB.

If DRC shows signs of slowing during the 2017 season, you cut him next offseason and recoup $6.5M in cap space with the 2017 draft pick stepping up. If he's still playing at a high level you have plenty of options including: 1) keeping him on current deal for 2018 or 2) extending him to lower his 2018 cap hit.

Pugh is interesting.

He played all 16 games his rookie season. Since then? He played 14, 14, and this season being his worst at 11.

I'd think if they were sold on him they'd have extended him already instead of getting to this last option year.

The Giants aren't in any kind of cap trouble, so they have the luxury of letting him play this last year to see if he can put a full season together at a high level before extending him.

He has a $500K roster bonus coming. My view is that they should pay it and retain SV, unless they think his body is breaking down or they see Perkins as earmarked for Vereen's role - which seems unlikely.

Much of the strategy for the RB position hinges on the staff's view of PP's future. Is he a primary back? A change-of-pace slasher? A third-down chain-mover? He has shown aspects of all three skillsets, but might not fit any of them ideally.

Maybe he only plays 60% of the offensive snaps (assuming Jenkins and Apple stay 100% healthy). Doesn't matter. A top-tier third CB is a huge asset. Then add in his stature as a prolific playmaker, and I don't see much reason to mess with success.

This is a case where cutting a player a year too early might actually be worse than cutting him a year too late.

...is what they did in 2016: Pay him for making it onto the field, which he managed in all but one week. That was fine in his comeback year, and he earned the money.

Now we know that - barring remarkable progress in Year Two - the injury and age have reduced him to a JAG-level performer. If he stays at all, he should make JAG money.

Not sure what the rush is to dump guys like Jennings and Thomas who don't have roster bonuses coming. (I think I've seen Dwayne Harris mentioned this way elsewhere too.) Sure - cut them if you need the money, but in the meantime they don't cost anything.

Thomas - Gone. No real need to elaborate.

Jennings - Gone. He showed no explosion whatsoever this year. He was only the veteran presence as Perkins was brought along slowly and they didn't have complete confidence in.

Vereen - No. I don't think people understand how much we missed him. Very good in space which Perkins can match but a more natural pass catcher and fluid pattern runner and also trusted blocker. Veteran RB that makes it easier to cut Jennings.

Cruz - It isn't even the money at this point so I wouldn't consider a restructure. We need to add size or speed (preferably both) to our roster as our 3 receiver sets don't work with him and Sheppard. He is not a number 4 receiver. I know there is a lot of talk about not having OBJ the vet and I agree with that. I go for a vet receiver as there are enough good options.

Harris - Outside chance. He is always banged up. Wasn't a great returner this year. If there are health issues, you need to consider.

DRC - No way you cut him or touch his contract. Him being a 3rd CB is an asset no other team has. If we were to trade for someone like Joe Thomas, I would consider trading DRC to recoup a draft pick. The downside is that you would need to draft a cb within the 1st 3 rounds of the draft to replace but you replace an aging player/big contract with another one in an area of greater need.

In comment 13329452 Named Later said:

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I'd hesitate to simply cut Victor Cruz, and leave Beckham as the Veteran Elder Statesman among the WR group. Victor has some juice as the leader in that room. He's made his Bank....now might be a good time to restructure and give a little back.

I'm not sure what the value of Cruz as the "veteran elder statesman" is when he clearly takes his cues from Beckham already, not the other way around. For better or worse, Beckham is the leader of that group, not Cruz.

Cannot leave fast enough for me. He has been more into his "brand" then his team. In 2015, instead of rehabbing, he was in Hollywood making movie/tv appearances (Ballers). He wasn't in premium shape for camp and hurt his calf and missed the whole year. This year he complained and did very little.

Thanks for what you did in 2011/12 but what have you done for me lately? Goodbye and good luck and remember your now very rich

In comment 13329584 Keith said:

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pjcas nailed it. You let DRC play out the season on his still fair contract and then you can move on next year.

People need to understand this.. a restructure is NOT a pay cut. Its moving money from now to later.. You dont need to do anything for DRC.. It doesnt help

In comment 13329847 djstat said:

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Cannot leave fast enough for me. He has been more into his "brand" then his team. In 2015, instead of rehabbing, he was in Hollywood making movie/tv appearances (Ballers). He wasn't in premium shape for camp and hurt his calf and missed the whole year. This year he complained and did very little. Thanks for what you did in 2011/12 but what have you done for me lately? Goodbye and good luck and remember your now very rich

You're making unprovable assumptions to fit your narrative, imo

He PROVED he can still play at a high level, but the reality is - the defense when the other major contributors were on the field - Hankins, Vernon, DRC, Jackrabbit, Collins was just fine with JPP absent.

JPP PROVED, but now he wants to get PAID (I think we can fix the shaky offense (shaky like the defense was last year) with the money we can save from letting him and Cruz go.

The D played as well or better after JPP's injury. Sign another DE for less and work on the offense.

somewhere else. Not many linemen (OL nor DL) available in this upcoming FA period. He will get the money he's looking for from another team.

I'm fine with that honestly. I think he is injury prone (back/groin). And although he hasn't missed a lot of games, he disappears for many and then resurfaces to have a huge game that pads his stats.

I would like to see Hankins back and DRC retained. Get a pass rusher with the first pick in the draft.

Again, here are the cap savings numbers for 2017

Likely cut:

Jennings $2.5M
Thomas $3.0M
Cruz $7.5M

I just dont see them asking Cruz to come back as a 4th WR - you don't keep vet guys like that as 4th WR's and Shepard is better in the slot

DRC - I am re-structuring by adding years - he is worth it. Add 2 more years

Pugh - his cap number is 8.875 - they will get him a long term deal and that number will go

Since the expected cap is 170M and Giants only have 138M in contracts that equals 32M under. Add to that the likely cuts above and you get 13M more to get to 45M

That is plenty to do what they need to do with their own FA's and some signings

In comment 13329679 Big Blue Blogger said:

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Now we know that - barring remarkable progress in Year Two - the injury and age have reduced him to a JAG-level performer. If he stays at all, he should make JAG money.

Wasn't Cruz playing out of position (slot receiver) a bigger factor toward reducing him to a JAG?

He is too easily defended and only allows Defenses and even greater opportunity to smother OBJ.

Jennings is done too. He, again. is too easily defended since he is never a threat to bounce/slide away from the point of attack. His threat as a receiver is also diminishing.



Others...

Rainey has no value on the field at all.

Pick whatever Linebackers you want to get rid, other than Kennard. I don't think any particular combination of the rest is any more valuable than another.

Harris is a cut I have been thinking of as the season went on. He clearly didn't have an impact on our return game at all this season, although had big plays as a gunner. But is that worth the cost? I would replace the ST Coach and ask him.

DRC needs to stay on another year. If Wade and Sensabaugh were one-notch better at their roles then I would say cut him, but they are unfortunately too much of a bulls-eye out there to give so many snaps to.

if he played on the Giants next year.

Its not fair to both sides he can't play on the outside. Cut him pay him what's guaranteed and lets all move on.