Reese: " Offense is a mystery "

Reese can blame last year on the defense...And he certainly did what he needed and fixed the defense.

But I was very critical of his refusal to sign a LT and gave Flowers the job.....

Blinder is only explanation

In comment 13329511 Victor in CT said:

Quote:

2) they did not replace Randle with a guy who had some size. Too many smurfs. Shepard is a better player, but his is small 3) no viable TE 4) no FB 5) no TE and FB made it impossible to help the OTs in pass pro and to have a consistent running game.

Agreed.

Some on BBI felt he addressed the OL problem, with two #1 picks, and #2 pick.....and then getting the likes of Jerry and Newhouse....but he didn't....I hate to use the word bust, in only two seasons, but Flowers is pretty close to it....and unless he can play another position, even an average position, he becomes a bad pick....it happens....and unless Richburg does a 180, he is just average at best also.... Pugh is nothing spectacular, but he has value in being able to play multiple positions, when called upon....everyone else at RG and RT has been a jag....So it's 5 years and counting, and Reese is more or less where he was when he started, as far as the OL goes....

To continually add UFA TE's to this roster is just mind boggling...we can't find one TE that can block?

I agree, Cruz was a huge gamble, because Reese had nothing to take his place, if the gamble failed....and don't tell me, Lewis and King were ready, they weren't, and they are what they are, potential backups, not starters....

The running game, is basically pathetic, because mainly of the blocking......having no TE or FB to help block, who is the blame for that? As for RB's, Perkins grew as the season progressed, and undoubtedly is penciled in as the starter.....he is the best of what we have, but that is not saying much.....I think he can become a Tiki type back, if he puts his mind to it......but we need a bruiser for short yardage situations.....someone who can "move the pile"......

And as I said before, Lewis/King is not the answer to the 3rd wideout.....and he doesn't have to necessarily be big, but he has to be fast, and get separation......

This team may take a step back this year.....JPP and Hankins may not be here...Robinson may not be here....We need a FS....

Trying to fix the offense and defense, and also providing some sort of depth on both, may not be possible....

last season, we scored 30+ points 7 times and 110 points more overall. Didn't score 30 once this past season. We ran the ball somewhat better last season in almost the same number of attempts (that McAdoo is obviously a slave to "balance"). Statistically, Eli threw about the same number of passes, completed the about the same number of passes, had the same number of int's, but for 400 less yards and 9 fewer td's. Last year's team gained about 600 more yards at a cost of 6 more sacks and 15 yards lost.

You'd think that ditching Randle, Myles White, Preston Parker, Andre Williams and taking Harris out of the 3rd WR role and replacing them with Cruz, Shepard, Perkins, Lewis, King, we would at least be able to maintain.

Reese, is right; it's a mystery.

In comment 13329929 Doomster said:

Quote:

Some on BBI felt he addressed the OL problem, with two #1 picks, and #2 pick.....and then getting the likes of Jerry and Newhouse....but he didn't....I hate to use the word bust, in only two seasons, but Flowers is pretty close to it....and unless he can play another position, even an average position, he becomes a bad pick....it happens....and unless Richburg does a 180, he is just average at best also.... Pugh is nothing spectacular, but he has value in being able to play multiple positions, when called upon....everyone else at RG and RT has been a jag....So it's 5 years and counting, and Reese is more or less where he was when he started, as far as the OL goes.... To continually add UFA TE's to this roster is just mind boggling...we can't find one TE that can block? I agree, Cruz was a huge gamble, because Reese had nothing to take his place, if the gamble failed....and don't tell me, Lewis and King were ready, they weren't, and they are what they are, potential backups, not starters.... The running game, is basically pathetic, because mainly of the blocking......having no TE or FB to help block, who is the blame for that? As for RB's, Perkins grew as the season progressed, and undoubtedly is penciled in as the starter.....he is the best of what we have, but that is not saying much.....I think he can become a Tiki type back, if he puts his mind to it......but we need a bruiser for short yardage situations.....someone who can "move the pile"...... And as I said before, Lewis/King is not the answer to the 3rd wideout.....and he doesn't have to necessarily be big, but he has to be fast, and get separation...... This team may take a step back this year.....JPP and Hankins may not be here...Robinson may not be here....We need a FS.... Trying to fix the offense and defense, and also providing some sort of depth on both, may not be possible....

So you're saying we should all kill ourseves? Holy shit.

In comment 13329924 SirLoinOfBeef said:

Quote:

In comment 13329511 Victor in CT said: Quote: 2) they did not replace Randle with a guy who had some size. Too many smurfs. Shepard is a better player, but his is small 3) no viable TE 4) no FB 5) no TE and FB made it impossible to help the OTs in pass pro and to have a consistent running game. Agreed.

3 4 and 5 were also the case last season.

It's GM speak for "I'm not telling what I really think"

In comment 13329956 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

In comment 13329924 SirLoinOfBeef said: Quote: In comment 13329511 Victor in CT said: Quote: 2) they did not replace Randle with a guy who had some size. Too many smurfs. Shepard is a better player, but his is small 3) no viable TE 4) no FB 5) no TE and FB made it impossible to help the OTs in pass pro and to have a consistent running game. Agreed. 3 4 and 5 were also the case last season.

What was Nikita Whitlock then? We had a FB last year. Randle sucks, but defenses still respected his height. Let's bring in a viable #2, and I think the offense takes a significant step.

In comment 13329948 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

last season, we scored 30+ points 7 times and 110 points more overall. Didn't score 30 once this past season. We ran the ball somewhat better last season in almost the same number of attempts (that McAdoo is obviously a slave to "balance"). Statistically, Eli threw about the same number of passes, completed the about the same number of passes, had the same number of int's, but for 400 less yards and 9 fewer td's. Last year's team gained about 600 more yards at a cost of 6 more sacks and 15 yards lost. You'd think that ditching Randle, Myles White, Preston Parker, Andre Williams and taking Harris out of the 3rd WR role and replacing them with Cruz, Shepard, Perkins, Lewis, King, we would at least be able to maintain. Reese, is right; it's a mystery.

+1

In comment 13329959 David in LA said:

Quote:

In comment 13329956 HomerJones45 said: Quote: In comment 13329924 SirLoinOfBeef said: Quote: In comment 13329511 Victor in CT said: Quote: 2) they did not replace Randle with a guy who had some size. Too many smurfs. Shepard is a better player, but his is small 3) no viable TE 4) no FB 5) no TE and FB made it impossible to help the OTs in pass pro and to have a consistent running game. Agreed. 3 4 and 5 were also the case last season. What was Nikita Whitlock then? We had a FB last year. Randle sucks, but defenses still respected his height. Let's bring in a viable #2, and I think the offense takes a significant step.

So a DT converted to JAG FB and a WR so bad he was cut by the Eagles are the reasons for the offensive woes? Really?

In comment 13329929 Doomster said:

Quote:

Some on BBI felt he addressed the OL problem, with two #1 picks, and #2 pick.....and then getting the likes of Jerry and Newhouse....but he didn't....I hate to use the word bust, in only two seasons, but Flowers is pretty close to it....and unless he can play another position, even an average position, he becomes a bad pick....it happens....and unless Richburg does a 180, he is just average at best also.... Pugh is nothing spectacular, but he has value in being able to play multiple positions, when called upon....everyone else at RG and RT has been a jag....So it's 5 years and counting, and Reese is more or less where he was when he started, as far as the OL goes.... To continually add UFA TE's to this roster is just mind boggling...we can't find one TE that can block? I agree, Cruz was a huge gamble, because Reese had nothing to take his place, if the gamble failed....and don't tell me, Lewis and King were ready, they weren't, and they are what they are, potential backups, not starters.... The running game, is basically pathetic, because mainly of the blocking......having no TE or FB to help block, who is the blame for that? As for RB's, Perkins grew as the season progressed, and undoubtedly is penciled in as the starter.....he is the best of what we have, but that is not saying much.....I think he can become a Tiki type back, if he puts his mind to it......but we need a bruiser for short yardage situations.....someone who can "move the pile"...... And as I said before, Lewis/King is not the answer to the 3rd wideout.....and he doesn't have to necessarily be big, but he has to be fast, and get separation...... This team may take a step back this year.....JPP and Hankins may not be here...Robinson may not be here....We need a FS.... Trying to fix the offense and defense, and also providing some sort of depth on both, may not be possible....

Doom - I respect your posts but I think you are being beyond pessimistic here.

I can guarantee that most teams, if you evaluate by your standards, are in deep trouble.

This will be the second year for the head coach, let's see how he evaluates what he just saw.

Add a WR, TE, and competition on the OL, and this team will be better. Record wise, sure you might not see it because this is the NFL. But they will be better.

to think this is some kind of mystery.

In comment 13329973 therealmf said:

Quote:

In comment 13329959 David in LA said: Quote: In comment 13329956 HomerJones45 said: Quote: In comment 13329924 SirLoinOfBeef said: Quote: In comment 13329511 Victor in CT said: Quote: 2) they did not replace Randle with a guy who had some size. Too many smurfs. Shepard is a better player, but his is small 3) no viable TE 4) no FB 5) no TE and FB made it impossible to help the OTs in pass pro and to have a consistent running game. Agreed. 3 4 and 5 were also the case last season. What was Nikita Whitlock then? We had a FB last year. Randle sucks, but defenses still respected his height. Let's bring in a viable #2, and I think the offense takes a significant step. So a DT converted to JAG FB and a WR so bad he was cut by the Eagles are the reasons for the offensive woes? Really?

I never claimed he was Moose Johnston, but we had FB on our roster. Maybe not a good one, but still makes a slight difference having one.

he sucks ass, and has bad wheels. He's still a taller receiver who would on occasion have good plays, and that in itself is more than what Cruz brought to the table playing outside. Again, Randle sucks, no one is arguing against that, but you look for guys with certain skillset and physical traits to compliment the other guys. A guy who can go up after balls, and use his body against the slant still holds some value.

In comment 13329984 David in LA said:

Quote:

he sucks ass, and has bad wheels. He's still a taller receiver who would on occasion have good plays, and that in itself is more than what Cruz brought to the table playing outside. Again, Randle sucks, no one is arguing against that, but you look for guys with certain skillset and physical traits to compliment the other guys. A guy who can go up after balls, and use his body against the slant still holds some value.

Whitlock holds some value agreed. RR, no I can't agree with, but for the sake of argument lets say had some value. Do those two instances of 'some' value add up to the huge drop off in offense? I don't buy it.

running the wrong route, and half assed attempts at balls were an issue, and cost us games. Still can do things our outside WR this year couldn't is what I'm saying, and that forces the defense to still account for him when he's on the field. No one is saying RR should be brought in, but a guy with his build would help us.

Cruz led the team in yards per catch and was 2nd on the team in 20+ yard catches (Beckham led the team with 20) but had the same number of targets as Will Tye. Was Eli not looking for him?

In comment 13330107 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

Cruz led the team in yards per catch and was 2nd on the team in 20+ yard catches (Beckham led the team with 20) but had the same number of targets as Will Tye. Was Eli not looking for him?

If Cruz were getting open, the coaches wouldn't have given a couple hundred of his snaps to Roger Lewis. And persisted in doing so even when Lewis wasn't producing either.

A stat I like for WRs is yards per offensive snap played. From recent history high to low:

OBJ: '14: 1.69
Cruz '11: 1.6
OBJ: '15: 1.45
OBJ: '16: 1.36
Cruz '12: 1.21
Cruz '13: 1.27
Randle '14: 0.98
Randle '15: 0.80
Parker/Cruz '14: 0.78
Cruz '16: 0.77
Shepard '16: 0.68
Harris '15: 0.64
Lewis '16: 0.47

For Cruz 2011, I have to estimate. Others are exact.

Cruz 2016 made some big plays on busted coverages and contested catches. He wasn't a consistent target. Why would Eli "not look for him" as he did in his prime years?

As for Shepard, I want to like him, and I'm very happy when he shows well, but he still has a lot to prove. Per snap is not impressive.

Giants will be fortunate to have a #2 receiver in 2017 who produces as well as 2014 Randle.

In comment 13329539 Go Terps said:

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In comment 13329520 Scuzzlebutt said: Quote: on offense last year and the O performed much better. That's what confuses me... and I assume that is what Reese meant. It doesn't work that way. This ain't Madden where you maintain a rating based on a scale of 1-100 from one year to the next. We would all be well advised to remember that in a few months if the same laissez-fare attitude is taken by the GM towards the defense in the offseason. You're either getting better or worse. There is no maintaining.

This is why the upcoming draft is so important for the direction of this team. You could add MLB, DE, FS, and CB to the list of needs of an already loaded defense.

Reese needs to make some smart moves in FA and find some playmakers in the draft -- offense and defense.

innnit.
Mystery!!! - ( New Window )

offensively.

Thats my take

offense this season and its very poor production but I'm in the minority here in that I think the OC and coaches should be held accountable for most of this mess, unless we are saying that we have drafted a bunch of payers with no talent and cannot be coached up and if thats true then we have to look at who drafted these guys...

which is somewhat necessary in the salary cap era. In the past (and right now), TE has been that position. Eli has made successful players out of nobodies, but hasn't been able to do it recently.

Now the offensive line is that area. Yes, there are 3 high draft picks (and Hart) on the o-line. But the other guys are free agents and they're depth guys, not big money/proven players. Only the Seahawks are spending less on their o-line and look what a mess that was. Just like with the TEs, Eli/Odell overcame the o-line the past 2 seasons, but couldn't do it again. There is no mystery... the o-line sucked to such a level it couldn't be overcome.

Quote:

Cruz 2016 made some big plays on busted coverages and contested catches. He wasn't a consistent target. Why would Eli "not look for him" as he did in his prime years?

He started off fine (including catching a td in his first game back) and then his targets fell off a cliff. So, what happened?

actually looked much sharper and productive (and quicker) in terms of yards and scores. The only problem is they barely had the ball...only 23 minutes but used that time really well. They even ran over 100 yards which was a rarity we came to see. There was nothing wrong with that Offense at all.

In the next couple games though (NO and Redskins) I think the Offense started getting much more careless in terms of turnovers, dumb penalties and inefficiencies in the redzone. They were still piling up yards but now started to show plenty of flaws. And I wonder if after that the internal mandate was to dial it back somewhat on Offense and start playing more cautious and limited formations.

Then they lost both Jennings and Vereen, and it was obvious for the next few games the O-line couldn't protect Eli very long as nobody was respecting the run and lack of formation variation made it easier to defend OBJ too. And this kept up all season...

is that all 4 teams left in the play offs have good offensive lines. You could even state with some conviction that other than the Dallas game, last weekend's games were won by the team with the better offensive line.

Yeah, but Reese isn't. He knows exactly what the problems are starting with his left tackle. He just isn't going to say anything because Flowers is his biggest problem and that one is 100% on him. After that, he has a talented but tempermental WR, a shaky veteran QB on his way down and pedestrian players almost everywhere else. So saying the offense is a mystery gets him out of having to provide further explanation because he really doesn't want to. He knows what he has and it showed all year.
First step in fixing the problem is move the LT to the right side of the line or the right side of the bench. Second step is sign a real LT. Third step is whack the current RG and sign a free agent. Fourth step is get a real NFL TE. Fifth step is get a true #2 WR and last, but by no means least, is whack the current starting RB and draft a big back who can handle 20 carries per game.
You catch all of that Jerry?

he was befuddled by the offense. Reeae is merely mystified by the offense.

But you have to think he knows exactly what the problems are on offense, he just isn't going to throw them under the bus in public. Whether he is up to the task of addressing the personnel issues is a different story.

In comment 13329485 MetsAreBack said:

Quote:

In comment 13329454 Marty866b said: Quote: OP,you have it right. O-line,tight end, fullback,and a legit#2 bigger receiver and the Reese's mystery would be solved. Yeah i dont even think you need all those things. Fixing LT, one interior lineman, and a stud TE (Cook?) probably gets us back to where we need to be considering we should still be a strong defense again next season.

When did Cook become a stud TE? I guess the declining NFL TV ratings are accurate - people truly aren't watching the games.

Cook made an amazing catch, no question. But that makes him a stud TE every bit as much as Manningham or Tyree was a stud WR.

Packer's Fullback, Aaron Ripkowski ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfigndgnPAc

2015 fullback Nikita Whitlock wasn't that good, but Whitlock's 2016 replacement (empty vacuum) is a lot worse.

(Randel vs. Cruz = Wash; 2015 O-line vs 2016 = Wash; 2015 tight ends vs 2016 tight ends = Wash)

2015 Offense vs 2016 Offense; 2015 Offense, 6th best (top 20th percentile), 2016 Offense 25th best (bottom 20th percentile)

Still a mystery, Jerry ?

In comment 13330333 joeinpa said:

Quote:

is that all 4 teams left in the play offs have good offensive lines. You could even state with some conviction that other than the Dallas game, last weekend's games were won by the team with the better offensive line.

yup

packers can pass protect that is for sure

In comment 13329469 Mike from SI said:

Quote:

Everyone on BBI from day 1 of the pre-season knew O Line was the problem. Fix it.

Everyone? Not too sure about that. Half of this asylum was telling the rest of us to relax because the pre season offense was just VANILLA

In comment 13330293 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

Quote: Cruz 2016 made some big plays on busted coverages and contested catches. He wasn't a consistent target. Why would Eli "not look for him" as he did in his prime years? He started off fine (including catching a td in his first game back) and then his targets fell off a cliff. So, what happened?

I would say that you are beginning with a small sample that in itself does not establish anything conclusive. Looking at the year as a whole, Cruz's targets and receptions really fell off after the ankle injury in the Week 9 Eagles game. Perhaps, as one contributing factor, it had some lingering effect.

For the year as a whole, though, I don't see any plausible explanation other than that he wasn't getting consistent separation. His big play in Week 2 that won the game could just as well have been an interception that lost the game. There are only so many times Eli is going to try that with a guy who is not Plaxico. The interception in the Week 14 Dallas game is an example of the bad result that can happen when you throw to someone the defense isn't respecting.

Also note that Cruz got a ton of targets (13) and eight receptions in the Week 16 Eagles game when Eli threw 63 times. But it didn't establish anything. When the Giants' season reached desperation time in Green Bay, it was OBJ returning kickoffs and Tavarres King taking Cruz's spot on the field. If the coaches thought a guy with a handful of career catches gave the Giants a better chance to win, that is a very telling bottom line.

And it was the coaches, n

He wasn't done. He scored a running TD (and could have had another one, if it wasn't for a low throw from Rogers at the Giants five ....

And had 24 yards (including 20 yard gain vs. Dallas.

In case you don't remember him (we need one of those ... The one that's dragging four NY Giants tacklers.

In comment 13330204 GloryDayz said:

Quote:

offensively. Thats my take

The 2016 line was worse. Injured 2015 Flowers was better than 2016 Flowers, and 2015 Richburg was vastly superior to 2016 Richburg.

The OL is garbage and has been for years. Eli at 36 is even more stationary than ever and a little gun shy from having to play behind a shit line for years. OBJ is the only weapon on offense.

It's really not rocket surgery Jerry.

In comment 13330469 EricJ said:

Quote:

In comment 13329469 Mike from SI said: Quote: Everyone on BBI from day 1 of the pre-season knew O Line was the problem. Fix it. Everyone? Not too sure about that. Half of this asylum was telling the rest of us to relax because the pre season offense was just VANILLA

And yet, somehow they won 11 games. How shitty that must have been for you.

In comment 13330528 Manny in CA said:

Quote:

In case you don't remember him (we need one of those ... The one that's dragging four NY Giants tacklers.

Yes, three posts later we know who you're referring to. And when Eli's mobility forces edge rushers to stay home and contain the way teams are forced to do when facing Rodgers, and when Eli's tackles keep a clean pocket the way Rodgers' do, we can worry about FB.

Whitlock was a nonfactor in 2015, when the offense was leaps and bounds better statistically. It's an interesting wrinkle to have, but it's really not the sort of position that you need to have for the sake of having one. And unless you identify one that can be useful beyond lead blocking, you're better off trying to find an H-back/TE/FB hybrid (like the Giants thought they had with Will Johnson) which is a much better use of the roster spot.

Ripkowski lead blocks very well (yes); runs, catches, AND plays special teams. I don't think the clip shows him pass blocking (but he does that too).

A good fullback is not going to stretch the field like an H-back (20 yards or more), but who cares, Eli should be throwing to better, faster targets.

A good powerful fullback is a great option to have on 1st down, 2nd and short, 3rd and short and 4th and short (and at the goal line). See how many opportunities you're cutting yourself off of ?

I'm NOT arguing that protecting Eli's blind side with a superior left tackle is A-1 priority, what I'm saying is that not having ANY fullback presence is the "fly in the soup" that Mr. Reese apparently doesn't recognize.

Happily, good fullbacks aren't very costly (I think the Packers picked up Ripkowski in the 6th round of the draft). My wish for the Giants is to find someone like the Panthers' Mike Tolbert.

Did not give me a whole lot of confidence

In comment 13330616 Manny in CA said:

Quote:

Ripkowski lead blocks very well (yes); runs, catches, AND plays special teams. I don't think the clip shows him pass blocking (but he does that too). A good fullback is not going to stretch the field like an H-back (20 yards or more), but who cares, Eli should be throwing to better, faster targets. A good powerful fullback is a great option to have on 1st down, 2nd and short, 3rd and short and 4th and short (and at the goal line). See how many opportunities you're cutting yourself off of ? I'm NOT arguing that protecting Eli's blind side with a superior left tackle is A-1 priority, what I'm saying is that not having ANY fullback presence is the "fly in the soup" that Mr. Reese apparently doesn't recognize. Happily, good fullbacks aren't very costly (I think the Packers picked up Ripkowski in the 6th round of the draft). My wish for the Giants is to find someone like the Panthers' Mike Tolbert.

Manny, I've read enough of your posts over the years to know that once you get an idea in your head, you're very difficult to sway. So, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think a dedicated FB is an efficient use of a roster spot within a scheme that doesn't utilize or require one in most standard situations. I think that the multi-purpose role that Will Johnson was supposed to fill is a far better use of limited resources in terms of roster spots.

You also have to remember that while the Packers are notorious for their effective use of the FB, this particular iteration should be contextualized - Green Bay is so depleted at RB that they're using Ripkowski more than they would otherwise.

Beyond that, if you honestly believe that a traditional FB would be a more impactful addition than OL reinforcements (x2), a TE upgrade, a dynamic RB, and a big, physical presence at WR, I'll go back to my original statement - we should agree to disagree.

In comment 13330107 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

Cruz led the team in yards per catch and was 2nd on the team in 20+ yard catches (Beckham led the team with 20) but had the same number of targets as Will Tye. Was Eli not looking for him?

I think the line was so bad he couldn't get through is progressions and get to him most times.

and blocking

a TE that at least garners some trepidation from DCs, & another WR.

In comment 13329841 x meadowlander said:

Quote:

In comment 13329823 Big Blue '56 said: Quote: In comment 13329814 RetroJint said: Quote: said last week that Eli was playing the back 9. Has he considered that Manning might be at the 19th Hole, instead? It is ridiculous how the deteriorating play of the QB is immune to discussion about the offense's regression. What changed from '15 to '16? 1. The schedule got easier. Flowers was healthy. The receiving unit was upgraded. What remained the same? McAdoo once again called the plays for the offense he installed. TE group: Same main two players. RBs: same performance level, if you liberally insert Perkins for Vereen. The only time Eli's deficiencies are considered is to mention the alleged contributing factors. In other words, the ass-wipe commentary, absolving him. The offensive line gets pissed on. Is there ever mention that they have to protect a near statue back there? Would they like blocking for Prescott or Wenz? Of course there are problems that are more design than performance. For instance , the psychotic belief that you can run without a fullback, blocking tight ends and a big wide receiver. But they better look at the Q. It's really important. Silly post pertaining to Eli..There is nothing wrong with Eli..He is the sme "statue" he's always been Disagree. The stone cold 4th quarter killer that Eli Manning was through 2011 is gone. PTSD from years of lousy OL play the cause. He still clearly has the tools, but the Mojo is gone.

Seriously there is an issue with how people are viewing this guy and its year 13 of his career...

Are you even aware that he had what..5? 5 game winning drives? This came while his LT was bad, the HC took his time using the RB who could run for more than 3 ypc and catch balls out of the backfield...no NFL caliber TE's...

Without exaggeration there is a persistent claim that Eli played a diminished game which cost his team, and yet who can say its not true that he had ZERO ability to hide the kind of [play he was running, had no RB who was a threat enugh to even run playaction (how many did we run all season? ) had no TE threat in the redzone or to block....

F that noise man...show me any QB who doesnt "like the tall target or TE". Show me any QB playing games where teams know he is passing but still won games by himself at times. Show me the missed time on the field from this aging player compared to his peers.

All myths. The RB shoud have been starting week 10, not week16. GiveEli a LT, a TE and a RB who MAY get you 5 yards, catch a screen pass or get a 3rd and 1 without issue. Lets see if he is old.

I didn't realize Eli had about the same stats as last year. Maybe the real mystery is *why* was the offense so productive last year? Going into this season, most of us all felt we upgraded or stayed at par across the board. Most of us (including me :)) were expecting something positive out of a Flowers/Pugh/Richburg side of the line.

To me, a lot of little things seemed worse. Both Eli & Odell didn't seem as sharp as last year, 2nd/3rd WRs seemed a bit lost, OL play was frankly a lot worse than last year (even from those we though would take a major step up), TEs were terrible (though nothing to write home about last year).

I actually agree w/ Jerry - the offense was a mystery on why it seemed *everyone* seemed to perform worse than last year when we though we made some upgrades.

In comment 13330469 EricJ said:

Quote:

In comment 13329469 Mike from SI said: Quote: Everyone on BBI from day 1 of the pre-season knew O Line was the problem. Fix it. Everyone? Not too sure about that. Half of this asylum was telling the rest of us to relax because the pre season offense was just VANILLA

Preseason means squat in terms of forecasting in-season performance..It just turned out that way..Did you ALSO SEE that the D would be be in the top 5(wound up top 2)? No you didn't. Because the same things that go on in the preseason on O (vanilla, very limited snaps, shuffling in and out of 500 players, etc.) also goes on with the D..Blind squirrel/acorn; you and others finally guessed right..End of story

Did I trivialize the importance of a good O-line, TE, RB or wide receiver; I don't think so ...

In Green Bay's case they have a very good left tackle David Bakhtiari, excellent tight end (Jared Cook), very good RB (Lacy, with good depth) and a solid corps of receivers (Cobb, Nelson, Adams). Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they are way better at each of these positions than us.

And, I'm NOT denying the effect of losing will Johnson, in many important ways, his loss to injury sunk the shaky boat, which was our offense; the complete void that existed by not having ANY accompanying presence in the backfield.