And the Rangers have a history of making struggling goalies look good.
They need this game badly. I usually don't like to put any big onus on 1 game of 82, but this is a time where a 3rd loss in a row could lead to a prolonged slump.
We have plenty of offense and to spare. Unfortunately outside Mac and possibly Skjei(jury still out) this defense is terrible. getting Staal back from concussion won't help as he's been as bad s the rest. I won't even mention the 'G' word as we all know the deal there.
Important to note that the Red shot areas when Girardi is on the ice are coming from his side. Thus teams make it a point to attack his side of the ice.
Yeah I understood not buying out Girardi last year
was just too many dead cap years to absorb... but now barring some sort of miracle expansion day draft/trade (if the Leafs figured out how to get rid of Clarkson anything is possible)... I don't see how he's not bought out this summer. He absolutely sucks.
and given our historical record against Carey Price, be careful what you wish for.
The place to be this year is 2 vs 3 in the Atlantic (likely 7 vs 8 seeds in East).
More important than who we face is getting #30 his confidence back, improving the D- personnel, keeping the forward group healthy, and getting back to playing the dominant hockey we saw through early November.
and given our historical record against Carey Price, be careful what you wish for.
The place to be this year is 2 vs 3 in the Atlantic (likely 7 vs 8 seeds in East).
More important than who we face is getting #30 his confidence back, improving the D- personnel, keeping the forward group healthy, and getting back to playing the dominant hockey we saw through early November.
Yeah, we have until April to get Hank right. Hoping that the offense that was scoring 5 a game will find it's way now that we are getting healthy.
Kreider will take care of Carey Price in Game 1...
the blind spot they have for Girardi is one of the most bizarre front
office blunders I've ever seen. There's no way to explain it away at this point.
It makes me wonder if this is one of the rare areas with the NYR where Dolan has intervened in things.
I know it's unlikely but it's just too hard to understand otherwise. I get that there are old timers in the league who don't like the new-dangled stats, but every fucking stat tells the same story. The stats aren't just making shit up that isn't happening on the ice.
RE: RE: the blind spot they have for Girardi is one of the most bizarre front
office blunders I've ever seen. There's no way to explain it away at this point.
It makes me wonder if this is one of the rare areas with the NYR where Dolan has intervened in things.
I know it's unlikely but it's just too hard to understand otherwise. I get that there are old timers in the league who don't like the new-dangled stats, but every fucking stat tells the same story. The stats aren't just making shit up that isn't happening on the ice.
What gives me hope is that Larry Brooks story on Girardi has changed from mocking the advanced stats on him in years past to acknowledging the drop off now. I do wonder whether right now it is mostly AV, and the fact that KK isnt good either. Nor is Staal. So he's sort of in a position where he needs to spread the pain.
More important than who we face is getting #30 his confidence back..
On the other hand surfing for the Caps-Pens game last night I did catch snippets of Henrik as a guest on Mario Batalli wearing a very handsome, white, open collar silk (so the wife told me) shirt, holding various implements with handles in the kitchen set...it was a red sauce based dish.
More important than who we face is getting #30 his confidence back..
On the other hand surfing for the Caps-Pens game last night I did catch snippets of Henrik as a guest on Mario Batalli wearing a very handsome, white, open collar silk (so the wife told me) shirt, holding various implements with handles in the kitchen set...it was a red sauce based dish.
Wearing a white shirt when making red sauce is just arrogance.
But how do you develop a blind spot for a guy who has basically sucked for your entire coaching tenure??
The Coughlin/Diehl thing was far more understandable for me.
They reached some impressive heights in 2014 and there's no doubt Girardi's personality/leadership/work ethic make a huge impression, especially when you're actually dealing with him on a day to day basis.
I also wouldn't rule out that their D analysis is just flawed (I think judging Dmen is really hard). Yandle should have been experimented with McDonagh last year on the top pair and it didn't happen, for example. It suggests AV has a type (to me).
Since breaking into the NHL in 2005, Henrik Lundqvist has guided the Rangers to 55 postseason victories including two Eastern Conference Finals and a Stanley Cup Final appearance.
Pretty good considering some of the defensive personnel he's played behind including: Marek Malik, Sandis Ozolinsh, Jason Strudwick, Thomas Pock, Bryce Lampman, David Liffiton, Ivan Baranka, Christian Backman, Wade Redden, Dmitri Kalinin, Derek Morris, Corey Potter, Erik Reitz, Matt Gilroy, Anders Eriksson, Bobby Sanguinetti, Ilkka Heikkinen, Bryan McCabe, Stu Bickel, Jeff Woywitka, Tim Erixon, Brendan Bell, Roman Hamrlik, Connor Allen, Justin Falk, Michael Kostka and Chris Summers.
Not exactly a Murderers' Row of defensemen.
Essentially Hank has carried this defense for years. The legitimately good defensemen he has played with can be counted on one hand (McD, Yandle, Staal before the injuries?). Now he's slowing down and while I think he's still better than his numbers have shown recently and will bounce back somewhat, the players around him need to start picking him up. I think we have the forwards to start doing that. Hopefully by next season we have the D Link - ( New Window )
More important than who we face is getting #30 his confidence back..
On the other hand surfing for the Caps-Pens game last night I did catch snippets of Henrik as a guest on Mario Batalli wearing a very handsome, white, open collar silk (so the wife told me) shirt, holding various implements with handles in the kitchen set...it was a red sauce based dish.
That Caps-Pens game last night was awesome (except the Pens winning of course!) 9 goals in the 2nd alone.... WOWZA!!
Pathetic. Just a pathetic team effort tonight against a team 18-27 on the 2nd of a back to back.
The defense sucks but watching the game from upper deck tonight - these stretch passes are ugly when the opponent is prepared for it. After the initial minute niemmi was able to take a nice nap back there
Sometimes the all world goalie needs to make a great stop when the defense breaks down. They call the goalie the last line of defense for nothing. He has not been that type of goalie for the most part this year.
He is misplaying everything. Even the blocker save early on was an adventure. Then the one off the post. Get his eyes checked...seriously. Say it ain't so King.
For some fuckin reason. Who was the defender that wiffed on the puck leading to second goal?
Jfc feel like I'm watching a high school team with these mistakes and goaltending And always looking to make stretch passes instead of working for goals.
But the good thing about hockey is your goalie just has to get hot in the playoffs. Hank may have some undisclosed injury but I think most of it is lack of focus. He will be his old self in the playoffs
But AV can say Hank is the number one but I think Raanta may be assuming that role once he comes back. It's gotten to the point where everytime the opposition shoots you think it's going to hit the back of the net
Pathetic. Just a pathetic team effort tonight against a team 18-27 on the 2nd of a back to back.
The defense sucks but watching the game from upper deck tonight - these stretch passes are ugly when the opponent is prepared for it. After the initial minute niemmi was able to take a nice nap back there
Hit the nail on the head MAB and I've mentioned it more than once this season. A lack of puck carrying Dmen and forcing 50 -100' stretch pasees is just too easy to defend.
Not even competitive out there. Guy is wide open in front of net on another D breakdown but Hank was too worried about a guy scoring from behind the goalline to notice him either.i
It's been a long time since the we've seen this bad a D and G combo
But AV can say Hank is the number one but I think Raanta may be assuming that role once he comes back. It's gotten to the point where everytime the opposition shoots you think it's going to hit the back of the net
We aren't winning a round or a cup with Raanta so what's the point. Might as well go get Steve Mason or Jimmy Howard is the goal is to make the first round of the playoffs.
Lundqvist is not anticipating very well and he is slow to react. He has got to be able to make the difficult save. He does not seem to have the capacity at the moment.
He looks like Niemi, maybe the worst stater in the league. He has no confidence at all right now and it's hard to see the team bouncing back from that one
with the big cap number. But harping on Hank alone is just completely missing the forest for the trees. The 5th goal was a joke on his part. And a lot of these he normally stops. But he's being completely hung out to dry out there. It could literally be 10-3 right now.
He propped up average defense for years. Now he can no longer do it anymore, and we're seeing the results. A disaster
with the big cap number. But harping on Hank alone is just completely missing the forest for the trees. The 5th goal was a joke on his part. And a lot of these he normally stops. But he's being completely hung out to dry out there. It could literally be 10-3 right now.
He propped up average defense for years. Now he can no longer do it anymore, and we're seeing the results. A disaster
100% agree. This defense is awful. They have one guy who you can convincingly say is a top four dman.
I agree with what Valiquette is saying on MSG right now.
What did valiquette say?
It's not all and none guys. Defense sucks but watching from up high tonight I've never seen 30 look this slow or clueless. If you need the best defense in the league in from of this guy to win in a cap era than forget it. The 5th goal was pure trash.
Let's not forget luongo fell apart under AV too. The system puts a lot of stress on goalies.
I agree with what Valiquette is saying on MSG right now.
What did valiquette say?
It's not all and none guys. Defense sucks but watching from up high tonight I've never seen 30 look this slow or clueless. If you need the best defense in the league in from of this guy to win in a cap era than forget it. The 5th goal was pure trash.
Let's not forget luongo fell apart under AV too. The system puts a lot of stress on goalies.
Something along the lines of Henrik putting the team on the map for 10 years and deserves better than how the fans are treating him.
I agree with what Valiquette is saying on MSG right now.
What did valiquette say?
It's not all and none guys. Defense sucks but watching from up high tonight I've never seen 30 look this slow or clueless. If you need the best defense in the league in from of this guy to win in a cap era than forget it. The 5th goal was pure trash.
Let's not forget luongo fell apart under AV too. The system puts a lot of stress on goalies.
Something along the lines of Henrik putting the team on the map for 10 years and deserves better than how the fans are treating him.
That's sentimental and all and I don't condone the sarcastic fans but sometimes mgmt needs a wake up call that we root for the jersey not the player. And no one put the rangers on the map the last 10 years - cmon it's an original 6 franchise not the Tampa lightning.
Just scored 4 goals. Amazing how often we lose in regulation with 4 goals.
I agree with what Valiquette is saying on MSG right now.
What did valiquette say?
It's not all and none guys. Defense sucks but watching from up high tonight I've never seen 30 look this slow or clueless. If you need the best defense in the league in from of this guy to win in a cap era than forget it. The 5th goal was pure trash.
Let's not forget luongo fell apart under AV too. The system puts a lot of stress on goalies.
He got on the fans for jeering Lundqvist. Said he put the team on the map.
that he's clearly struggling badly right now. Had numbers that on the 29 2-on-1's last season where the shooter shot he let in one goal. A 4th liner like Cracknell beating him on one there shows how badly he's struggling. But the crowd mocking him like that accomplishes nothing and he deserves better than that.
Dallas is so bad. We could have played one of our worst games and still won. Instead we played THE worst game in a long time.
I agree with what Valiquette is saying on MSG right now.
What did valiquette say?
It's not all and none guys. Defense sucks but watching from up high tonight I've never seen 30 look this slow or clueless. If you need the best defense in the league in from of this guy to win in a cap era than forget it. The 5th goal was pure trash.
Let's not forget luongo fell apart under AV too. The system puts a lot of stress on goalies.
Something along the lines of Henrik putting the team on the map for 10 years and deserves better than how the fans are treating him.
That's sentimental and all and I don't condone the sarcastic fans but sometimes mgmt needs a wake up call that we root for the jersey not the player. And no one put the rangers on the map the last 10 years - cmon it's an original 6 franchise not the Tampa lightning.
Just scored 4 goals. Amazing how often we lose in regulation with 4 goals.
I'm doubtful they make he playoffs more than a few times if they have an average goalie instead of him. He's made a ton of people who don't deserve it a lot of money.
with next to no time on the clock. Instead of a great comeback it just ends up being an embarrassing loss at home to a struggling team.
Can't really hope for any better chances than they got there. Literally got like 5 shots on net in 7 seconds.
Fun comeback, but doesn't obscure any of the defensive and goaltending problems and we don't get to play Niemi every game. Toronto will smoke us Thursday if it doesn't get fixed.
with next to no time on the clock. Instead of a great comeback it just ends up being an embarrassing loss at home to a struggling team.
Can't really hope for any better chances than they got there. Literally got like 5 shots on net in 7 seconds.
Fun comeback, but doesn't obscure any of the defensive and goaltending problems and we don't get to play Niemi every game. Toronto will smoke us Thursday if it doesn't get fixed.
I can hope for better chances in fact I was hoping they'd actually knot it up.
The simple truth is it has slowly deteriorated both in personnel and scheme since Torts was given the heave ho. Did I say awful? Embarrassing is more like it.
was the best Hank had. That was under AV and the blue line really controlled possession that season and obviously we went to the final. Hank struggled that season up until around this time if you remember, though it was nowhere near as bad as this.
The groundwork for this debacle was laid when they let Stralman walk in favor of Girardi. They could have undone some of that damage by giving Yandle more of a chance with big minutes. But alas, here we are.
I love where the offense is compared to the Torts years
To Kyle's point, it was really good in 13-14. I don't know if the decisions made would have changed.
My impression was that they sort of let Ulf walk because of the defense and now it's worse. Maybe my reading of the tea leaves was off, though, and he really did leave on his own accord.
I only watched 3 minutes of the game (or so) before and after the
7th goal was allowed. In that 3 minutes, the Stars EASILY could've scored 2 or 3 more goals. Because I didn't see 98% of the game, I can't say what percentage of this debacle needs to be on Hank. But in those few minutes I watched, the defense was an abomination.
A Star was able to chase a puck deep into Rangers' zone, somehow 10 feet ahead of the closest Ranger defender. 2 Rangers followed the opponent with 1 Star between them. Initially, neither man went after the guy chasing the puck. Then BOTH men went after the guy with the puck leaving the Star alone in front of the net. Hank, thankfully, made the save on that guy. That shit was embarrassingly bad.
People giving Hank the Bronx cheer was despicable. However, we saw Derek Jeter get booed so it can happen to anyone.
To Kyle's point, it was really good in 13-14. I don't know if the decisions made would have changed.
My impression was that they sort of let Ulf walk because of the defense and now it's worse. Maybe my reading of the tea leaves was off, though, and he really did leave on his own accord.
Agree it's the personnel. Piping in to remind people that Girardi was terrible in the playoffs that year. That was probably the best the D ever was, but far from DG's best.
are spot on. You really think Spock would pull this bullshit and start a Canadiens game thread. He knows I own those.
Seriously Davisian nailed it, I watched a lot of the game, Hank has no confidence, and he doesn't because the opponent is getting way too many quality chances and that's happening because not just the defensive breakdowns but the entire 5-man breakdowns.
defense in the NHL is almost like a CB in the NFL, when you F-up it's obvious, but a lot of it starts with the forwards. Not all of it, there is some bad D play, but a lot of it.
I'd shake things up, not change for the sake of change, but seems like players are too comfortable, which isn't unusual in a Vigneault, Therrien, or Julien team. It's their trademark.
I haven't read the entire thread so maybe someone already mentioned it.. but Hank's numbers have been downright ugly since the Eakin hit from the last time we played Dallas.
Is it possible he's hurt or was concussed?
I'd like to think the medical staff would have caught it if he was and he wouldn't have been playing this entire time, but this seems a little worse than just basic struggling on his behalf.
Obviously he wasn't lights out prior to that game either.. he's just seemed particularly lost since.
The play in our end has clearly been bad, too. So it's not all Hank. But either way.. they need to figure this out. It's ugly.
but IMO he's not really a huge upgrade and if you have to pay half of Nash I'd expect a better return. He's an upgrade, just not enough and I am just not a huge fan of the under 6' defenseman. Though Ellis is physical enough which is one concern they don't generally have the long stick to poke check the puck.
Plus with both Subban and Josi injured (even short-term) I'm not sure the Preds trade a defenseman.
Subban had a herniated disk, not sure those just heal. reliably.
I haven't read the entire thread so maybe someone already mentioned it.. but Hank's numbers have been downright ugly since the Eakin hit from the last time we played Dallas.
Is it possible he's hurt or was concussed?
I'd like to think the medical staff would have caught it if he was and he wouldn't have been playing this entire time, but this seems a little worse than just basic struggling on his behalf.
Obviously he wasn't lights out prior to that game either.. he's just seemed particularly lost since.
The play in our end has clearly been bad, too. So it's not all Hank. But either way.. they need to figure this out. It's ugly.
You never know, but he followed up that Dallas performance with very good games against Nashville and NJ. He also played really well at Philly just prior to the break.
upgrade to Girardi/Klein, but I also appreciate your point.
I am just a fan of a deal similar to this (maybe Ellis isn't exactly the player) where they acquire a decent RD without losing a Miller/Hayes/Stepan/Kreider etc while also freeing up some money to even further improve the D in the offseason.
It's a good mix of not getting too min worse right now while teeing up a bigger offseason revamp.
According to one well placed source at least, the Habs have been discussing a "Big buy that would rival the newsworthiness of the PK Subban trade. A deal that would be aimed at separating them from the rest of the pack in the East."
The Canadiens don't have the greatest track record in trades. Plus they have the best young talent they've had in 20 years. I feel a disaster coming.
the only names I hear are Shattenkirk, Shane Doan who isn't remotely in this class and he's 40, Landeskog (who I like but isn't a big name), and not much else.
Maybe Trouba?
RE: I think the defense is a personnel, not a coaching thing.
No question the personnel on the back line are limited as a group (and critically so in some individual cases) and are not playing well, but I think it goes beyond that: awareness, positioning, collective poor decision making. It was indeed tough watching HL in the post-game, trying to balance his comments between owning that he is playing poorly, but also assigning causality to play in front of him: he mentioned "structure" a few times, picked up on by MAB and davisian.
As poorly as Henrik has been playing--and he has let in many awful goals in recent weeks, replete from 5-hole gaffes, leaving gaps on the near post on sharp angles (Sharp's goal I think it was, to Valiquette's point on 24 two-on-ones last season), poor awareness and reaction in front, turning the wrong way on the last goal--but last night as well as against Montreal there were a series of collective shit shows in front and behind the net resulting in heavy traffic, scrums and pucks flipping up and around and bouncing the wrong way, pucks going in off skates (McD vs. Montreal). A keeper more on his game would certainly have had a better success rate, but right now team defense is obviously dreadful and HL's play is too.
shockeyisthebest above made what I think is a valid point, two defenders going back behind the net to try to trap the puck leaving huge voids in front; on the PK, I've seen the rotation go so far to the puck side that the two players manning the center ice side of the box are approximately in line with the near post (i.e., closest to the boards where the puck is being played) leaving gaping open ice on the far side and inability to rotate back far or fast enough; this was in part a problem vs. the Leafs.
Unfortunately, I think we're witnessing the worst of both worlds, personnel, and a breakdown in shape/structure, and the faster/harder the opponents' forward lines come, the more glaring the breakdowns. HL is pleading for cleaner ice in front and around him, of course every GK wants that.
In the good piece Kyle linked yesterday ("Kevin"'s analysis of #30), there was also a lot of back and forth about the tenacity of support in front of HL as compared to Cam, AR. It's a theme I've queried going back to last year. To MAB's question "what did Valiquette say?": he also mentioned that HL is obviously not seeing the puck well (game a couple of weeks ago, opening score from just inside the blue line, clear line of sight, flew by HL's glove: I mused maybe he needs vision tests), not reacting well, maybe it is just age. Someone mentioned AV's system being hard on keepers. Team needs to undertake some really uncompromising self-scouting on all fronts.
eh, not sure you can say it was getting run in Dallas that's hurt him
He was perfectly good in his first two games after that - allowed one goal in carrying them to a win in Nashville and two goals in a win over Jersey. Got bombed by Minnesota but bounced back against Colorado. Bad start against Buffalo, great start against Philly, and it's been a house of horrors since. 4+ goals allowed in six of his past eight appearances, and in two of those he didn't even play a full game.
According to one well placed source at least, the Habs have been discussing a "Big buy that would rival the newsworthiness of the PK Subban trade. A deal that would be aimed at separating them from the rest of the pack in the East."
The Canadiens don't have the greatest track record in trades. Plus they have the best young talent they've had in 20 years. I feel a disaster coming.
the only names I hear are Shattenkirk, Shane Doan who isn't remotely in this class and he's 40, Landeskog (who I like but isn't a big name), and not much else.
That's true, he has had a few good starts since. Although I don't know if those few starts would be enough evidence to totally rule out the possibility.
He's had bad stretches before, so it's not the first time we've ever seen him struggle. He's certainly not getting any help from the play in front of him, though.
Go figure, the year where we're scoring more goals than any team in the NHL, our world-class goaltender suddenly can't stop a beachball from getting through. Sigh...
Some bizarre goals being scored against us lately. A lot of it is awful defensive coverage. Henrik isn't playing well either. Add it all up and you see them giving up 4+ goals on a regular basis.
That's true, he has had a few good starts since. Although I don't know if those few starts would be enough evidence to totally rule out the possibility.
He's had bad stretches before, so it's not the first time we've ever seen him struggle. He's certainly not getting any help from the play in front of him, though.
Go figure, the year where we're scoring more goals than any team in the NHL, our world-class goaltender suddenly can't stop a beachball from getting through. Sigh...
That's true, he has had a few good starts since. Although I don't know if those few starts would be enough evidence to totally rule out the possibility.
He's had bad stretches before, so it's not the first time we've ever seen him struggle. He's certainly not getting any help from the play in front of him, though.
Go figure, the year where we're scoring more goals than any team in the NHL, our world-class goaltender suddenly can't stop a beachball from getting through. Sigh...
Henrik or me? :P
Maybe the real problem is that we have a bunch of ham n' eggers running the threads these days....
This is going into last night when the metrics got even worse. The Sharp goal for sure was low-danger. Several of the others (i'm guessing the 3rd and 6th goals) were medium risk...
Quote:
You know how Dallas started the game? With a 90-foot drive from the right boards by Stephen Johns. You think teams are unaware of the problems Lundqvist has had both right out of the hopper and on long ones? Think again.
...
Last year, Lundqvist allowed a sum of six low-danger goals on 642 shots, per Corsica. This year, he had already allowed eight on 306 shots before the puck was dropped Tuesday. Last year, Lundqvist allowed a total of 34 medium- and low-risk goals on 1,135 shots. This year, already 33 on 512 shots.
It is time to stop comparing this Lundqvist season to any that have come before. It is not like 2013-14. There has never been anything like it. And there hasnt been anything like it in New York for more than 11 years.
well, I know I'll get a ton of shit for this, but 2 years ago
a lot of folks, me included , posted that as great as Lundqvist was, it might make sense to trade him and keep Talbot. I was skewered for it. Reason being that they probably missed their window to win the Cup as constituted, that he was nearing the end of his peak, and that his cap hit would be an albtross as he aged. Well, here we are, he's 35 and giving up a ton of shit goals and not playing up to that contract anymore. Except now you can't trade him, he's too expensive and his play is suspect. Here are the remaining terms of his contract, which he will complete at age 37. The left side # is the salary, right side # is the cap hit:
2017-18 Contract details by year 34 $9,000,000 - - $8,500,000
2018-19 Contract details by year 35 $7,500,000 - - $8,500,000
2019-20 Contract details by year 36 $7,000,000 - - $8,500,000
2020-21 Contract details by year 37 $5,500,000 - - $8,500,000 Henrik Lundqvist CURRENT CONTRACT - ( New Window )
How would this help us? He doesn't play defense...
John GambadoroVerified account
@Gambo987
Teams interested in trading for Shane Doan - Montreal Canadians, NY Rangers, Washington Capitals.
and he's 106 years old
j
Fuck Him. He's had many chances to leave Phoenix for a shot at winning and passed on all of them to stay home and lose. Last thing the Rangers need is this corpse in uniform.
RE: Side note, Eric Staal has 39 points in 43 games.
has been linked to two Coyotes veterans, Doan - major pass - I see nothing he brings but a veteran presence and it's not like a Hossa or anything where he's got playoff experience and is an aging star - he's just a name a this point, and Martin Hanzal who I wouldn't mind as a rental, he's a UFA after the season and has size the Canadiens don't really have.
most of his duration here, exacerbated late in the year when his head was slammed into the ice off a face-off i think it was.
despite the injury which is of course bad luck, it was still easily Gorton's worst move since taking over as GM. Last year's team had no shot to win a Cup, so why did we trade assets?
RE: well, I know I'll get a ton of shit for this, but 2 years ago
but he's a huge reason we make the playoffs every year since he's been here.
He's also, as discussed here often, been a force defensively at least.
We all want more. But we're not getting Crosby or Seguin in trade for him, so ride it out... his contract is almost up. I wouldnt be surprised to see him dealt this summer to Toronto. He'd be a great fit for them i think.
is one guy who I don't think fans always fairly appreciate. He is so versatile, I'd deal him because no one is untouchable, but Nash can play PP, PK, excels defensively and is technically sound (or better) in all facets of the game.
I'd need a lot back to trade Nash. even though I acknowledge he's in decline.
most of his duration here, exacerbated late in the year when his head was slammed into the ice off a face-off i think it was.
despite the injury which is of course bad luck, it was still easily Gorton's worst move since taking over as GM. Last year's team had no shot to win a Cup, so why did we trade assets?
My issue was thinking Staal would fix the obvious issues - the defense. If they traded for a top four guy and failed, that would have been fine, but thinking Eric Staal was the solution to anything was dumb. And I like him as a player.
is one guy who I don't think fans always fairly appreciate. He is so versatile, I'd deal him because no one is untouchable, but Nash can play PP, PK, excels defensively and is technically sound (or better) in all facets of the game.
I'd need a lot back to trade Nash. even though I acknowledge he's in decline.
I 100% agree. I think he's really underrated by Ranger fans. I'm open to trading him for cap space/D help/youth, especially if NYR is still struggling at deadline time.
My issue was thinking Staal would fix the obvious issues - the defense. If they traded for a top four guy and failed, that would have been fine, but thinking Eric Staal was the solution to anything was dumb. And I like him as a player.
Largely agree, i think they thought he'd add a lot of scoring to the 3rd line which had been so brutal for us the prior playoffs, his overall Corsi% and face-off prowess would help us in the post-season, etc.
But anyone following the team with a basic understanding of metrics knew last year's team wasn't one player away. It was a Sather'esque move by Gorton - shocking for a first year GM trying to build something so he could have a career here -
also suffers because pretty sure he's still got a fairly small list of teams he'd agree to go to.
Summer probably makes the most sense as far as trade. I remember Toronto was on his 'would go to' list when we traded for him, and i dont see them in a rush to do this right now.
is usually +, be it even strength, PP, PK, as said; he's unselfish and I think he's a positive, steadying force on the bench and in the room for the young forwards, lots of intangibles, even at this stage. If he is dealt, I hope it is from a strong hand
I think Nash could fetch a first and a really good prospect. Something like the Yandle deal.
I am antsy ahead of this trading deadline. With the expansion draft, the Canadiens in contention but injured, and so many teams still on the fence for contention things could get crazy.
I don't know how to gauge the market for anyone (not that I ever really do) but this year in particular.
6 weeks and so much could change, but I see the most active trade deadline in a long time.
I think the Avalanche and the Coyotes are really the only teams legit out of playoff contention 6 weeks from the deadline (maybe that's not unusual, but with the expansion draft and the other factors I think it will be active)
But as MAB notes, the defense is almost certainly more than a Shattenkirk away from where it needs to be.
As of right now the Rangers are $9m+ under the cap for next year assuming flat cap. Call it $10m assuming a very modest bump in the cap.
Conservatively say $7m for Zib. (You can do it cheaper with a bridge but I hate the idea. No mas bridge please).
That leaves $3m for Lindberg/Pirri/Fast/Peumpel/Clendo. Not enough money.
So you trade away Klein or lose him to expansion and that gets you just under $6m. It would be generous to say that's enough to sign the aforementioned (or fill their roster spots), but let's be generous and say that gets it done. No money left.
Buy out Girardi - that gives you $2.9m of space.
Defense is better addition by subtraction, but you still aren't sniffing Shat money. Sure, there are ways to get there, but even then you've got to wonder if there is enough talent on D.
If your scenario were to play out, I'd argue the subtractions of Klein and Girardi and replacing them with Shattenkirk and I suppose more time for Clendening would be a major improvement to our D.
I suspect they're going to shop Stepan in the offseason
But as MAB notes, the defense is almost certainly more than a Shattenkirk away from where it needs to be.
As of right now the Rangers are $9m+ under the cap for next year assuming flat cap. Call it $10m assuming a very modest bump in the cap.
Conservatively say $7m for Zib. (You can do it cheaper with a bridge but I hate the idea. No mas bridge please).
That leaves $3m for Lindberg/Pirri/Fast/Peumpel/Clendo. Not enough money.
So you trade away Klein or lose him to expansion and that gets you just under $6m. It would be generous to say that's enough to sign the aforementioned (or fill their roster spots), but let's be generous and say that gets it done. No money left.
Buy out Girardi - that gives you $2.9m of space.
Defense is better addition by subtraction, but you still aren't sniffing Shat money. Sure, there are ways to get there, but even then you've got to wonder if there is enough talent on D.
hoya - I've got $9.85mm space on a flat cap, not 9mm. I think you can assume 11mm. Ziba should get 6mm, but ok on your conservatism there.
Leaves 4mm -- Fast unfortunately, barring a trade of (most likely Nash) before the expansion draft which probably means we dont get the greatest return... is likely the player taken by Vegas.
Frankly I'd prefer Grabner just because he'll be 30 and is a UFA in what will be a tough summer 2018... but figure you lose Fast.
You are carrying 14 forwards right now, you'll go into next season at 13... so Pirri (if he's even re-signed, we may find cheaper), Puempel, Lindberg and Clendening combined only need $4 million. I think that's do-able.
But yeah, to find the $6 mil/year for Shatty you'll need to unload/buy-out Girardi, move Klein and tweak in other areas like maybe trading Raanta and finding a goalie at half the cost. It's doable without trading Nash, but when I look at losing Fast for nothing PLUS having to make all these moves to afford Shattenkirk... yeah it does point to trading Nash before the Vegas draft.
With that said, perhaps a deal can be made for a younger top 4 D-man that won't cost $6-7mil a year on the wrong side of 30 too.... we've made these "shiny" FA acqs in the past, as much as i like Shattenkirk, there is a lot of risk there.
PS. Oh by the way, Yandle has not been very good for Florida this year. And its year one of that deal.
RE: I suspect they're going to shop Stepan in the offseason
I hope you're wrong. I would need a huge, huge haul.
That's one NMC I'm not even a little bit afraid of. He's 29 at the end of the deal and I think he's going to shatter his career point highs this season and next, especially seeing the way that he and Kreider are piling up stats together.
RE: I suspect they're going to shop Stepan in the offseason
I can see why from an asset allocation perspective - Stepan's had a really strong year. On pace for ~65 points I believe. I think he's a bit underrated league wide, I never understood why Ryan O'Reilly was perceived to be worth much more when they were both angling for extensions.
I'd rather trade Zucc than Stepan if I had to.
I watched more hockey this year than any other year
I'm with you. Unless we get a real sweetheart deal from Shat, I'm not a big cheerleader for just paying whatever it takes. I won't be sad if they decide to pass.
Shat or no shat, trading Nash is one way of possibly getting a defensement like the one you describe while also making the $ wiggle a little easier. Trading Zucc is the other. Return would be very good, doesn't free up as much money.
Definitely will be interesting to see what they do.
Hockey is the most fun sport to play fake-GM with, IMO.
They have quality young centers behind him in Zibby, Hayes, and Lindberg. That's a solid top 3. He's not that much older than those guys, but he IS older. His value is probably as high as it's going to be. Zucc won't bring as much in return and has the lower cap hit.
Gotta give to get, and I think Stepan likely will provide the most value to a trading partner and thus the best return. They have to create cap room to improve the defense, while also not taking too much from the offense. Gordon's got his work cut out for him.
Nash will be hard to replace though, since he fills so many roles
to trade Nash now with only 1 yr left on his deal. He may not score in the playoffs, but he definitely helps get you there and is a solid all-around player and person. I doubt Zucc brings much if anything in return. He fits on the Rangers, prob doesn't fit in many other places.
As many of you have said, the big fuck up that they are still paying for was letting Stralman go.
it drastically impacts our offense while allocating a never-ending increased cap dollars to a defense/goaltender situation that will still likely suck.
Dont forget Stepan is one of our best two way forwards too.
Ideal world Staal, G and Klein and their contracts are all gone next summer. I'm fine with Holden being Vegas' pick too -- he was a nice find by Gorton, but there's some puck luck in his scoring like we saw with Klein two years ago and Gorton can find those types every summer i think.
I'm also just not nearly as high on Lindberg as some on this board here are. To me he's JAG. Even before his injury late last year, they tried to trade him to Carolina for Staal and Carolina preferred 2nd round draft picks and the kid from Finland.
If the issue is the defense - then restructure the defense. What are we going to do - healthy scratch G and Klein next year? No... then get rid of them by any means necessary.
is i do think there are some systems out there he wouldnt look so bad / out of place in. Even if we ate half his contract in a deal, it'd be better for his career and for our long-term cap ramifications if he just waived his NMC and left already.
But as we've discussed before, who the fuck knows if this organization even wants to deal him.
You don't have the cap space and there is no defense. They need to free up money.
Thank goodness the city, not the Rangers, attracted Hayes and Vessy. My gosh this team doesn't want to part with anybody. Don't move Nash, Staal, Giarardi, Hank, etc. Let's lock them all up so we have no room and think we can somehow trade approx $900K for $5 million, keep everybody, stay under the cap, sign free agents, lose draft picks and, oh by the way, win.
They have to move out money or buy them out. The window slammed shut. Move some pieces rather dream that early offense was going to continue with wild cross ice passes and beautiful goals. Opponents shut the lanes down by Dec and realized the defense still stinks.
You want Hamilton? Then move out age and money rather than inexpensive youth.
Move some pieces rather dream that early offense was going to continue with wild cross ice passes and beautiful goals. Opponents shut the lanes down by Dec and realized the defense still stinks.
Goals scored, last ten games: 6, 4, 2, 5, 5, 1, 6, 6, 4, 4
But yeah, they can't score anymore. Terrific analysis.
For those more knowledgable than I am: Do you think Hank is losing his reflexes and quick-twitch so to speak, or does this seem more like a mental problem?
T
Move some pieces rather dream that early offense was going to continue with wild cross ice passes and beautiful goals. Opponents shut the lanes down by Dec and realized the defense still stinks.
Goals scored, last ten games: 6, 4, 2, 5, 5, 1, 6, 6, 4, 4
But yeah, they can't score anymore. Terrific analysis.
So they're out scoring opponents for win? Looked over the defense still stinks part and the salaries right? You enjoy what you think you're watching. It's our year right?
adds $3 million to the cap in 2017-2018, but is net neutral after that as Hayes will easily make $5.75 mil/year
Not saying Hamilton is the guy, but it makes sense from the standpoint of then being able to protect Fast as the 7th forward and forcing Vegas to choose from 1 year of Grabner (who will be 30+), Holden and/or Klein -- all of which i'm perfectly fine losing in an expansion draft.
we need to unload some of this dead-weight defensive cap money. Easier said than done.
I do think after last summer Gorton has earned some trust here. His only mistake IMO was not giving JT more term instead of a bridge deal and trading Klein to afford the higher salary, but what's done is done.
In an ideal world Staal, Girardi and Klein are all playing for other teams next year. Doubt it happens but it was hard to imagine trading Brassard and getting a better player back at cheaper money too.
They are still 28-17 despite Lundqvist having by a mile his worst professional season.
6. Is it possible St. Louis moves Kevin Shattenkirk, freeing up cap space to do something else? The Blues can handle it, with Alex Pietrangelo and Colton Parayko on the right side. Its a creative move and it makes sense, since Shattenkirk and the coaching staff dont always seem on the same page. What it also does is open up some short-term possibilities that might not otherwise exist.
Shattenkirk made it known he would not consider Edmonton long-term, but would he do it for a few months as the Oilers chase the playoffs? Why not? Montreal and Toronto would also make sense as teams that need a short-term burst. Think about it: Those clubs (or anyone else who would be interested) get a good rental. Shattenkirk gets a situation where hes going to play a big role and make himself look even better for his upcoming free agency. (Although, as Ive said before, other teams are convinced he wants to play for the Rangers.) Shattenkirk breaking out with Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner or Connor McDavid would be fun to see.
After the Eakin hit and before the bye week:
7 games, .900 sv%, 2.7 GAA
Post bye:
3 games, .789 sv%, 5.3 GAA
(by the way their 3.94 GAA i guess annualizes the Dallas, Montreal and Minnesota games in which he was pulled/came in late... I didnt for my GAA above because that's a good amount of work with minimal return)
Could it be that over a month after the collision Hank just now started having headaches and ramifications? Maybe, but its more likely just a slump + poor structure in front of him... hell maybe even missing the much maligned Marc Staal during this stretch is part of the problem.
It's a better theory i think than a month after a hit a goalie started to stink so that's gotta be the reason...
WRONG
They need this game badly. I usually don't like to put any big onus on 1 game of 82, but this is a time where a 3rd loss in a row could lead to a prolonged slump.
I am 100% convinced that the Rangers do not view Girardi as badly as the fans do.
Clearly. I mean they keep trotting him out on the first pair
Sign me up
The place to be this year is 2 vs 3 in the Atlantic (likely 7 vs 8 seeds in East).
More important than who we face is getting #30 his confidence back, improving the D- personnel, keeping the forward group healthy, and getting back to playing the dominant hockey we saw through early November.
The place to be this year is 2 vs 3 in the Atlantic (likely 7 vs 8 seeds in East).
More important than who we face is getting #30 his confidence back, improving the D- personnel, keeping the forward group healthy, and getting back to playing the dominant hockey we saw through early November.
Yeah, we have until April to get Hank right. Hoping that the offense that was scoring 5 a game will find it's way now that we are getting healthy.
Kreider will take care of Carey Price in Game 1...
It makes me wonder if this is one of the rare areas with the NYR where Dolan has intervened in things.
I know it's unlikely but it's just too hard to understand otherwise. I get that there are old timers in the league who don't like the new-dangled stats, but every fucking stat tells the same story. The stats aren't just making shit up that isn't happening on the ice.
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office blunders I've ever seen. There's no way to explain it away at this point.
It makes me wonder if this is one of the rare areas with the NYR where Dolan has intervened in things.
I know it's unlikely but it's just too hard to understand otherwise. I get that there are old timers in the league who don't like the new-dangled stats, but every fucking stat tells the same story. The stats aren't just making shit up that isn't happening on the ice.
What gives me hope is that Larry Brooks story on Girardi has changed from mocking the advanced stats on him in years past to acknowledging the drop off now. I do wonder whether right now it is mostly AV, and the fact that KK isnt good either. Nor is Staal. So he's sort of in a position where he needs to spread the pain.
Coughlin, a guy I thought was a great coach, had a huge blind spot for Diehl. I think it's closer to that than Dolan being involved.
The Coughlin/Diehl thing was far more understandable for me.
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More important than who we face is getting #30 his confidence back..
On the other hand surfing for the Caps-Pens game last night I did catch snippets of Henrik as a guest on Mario Batalli wearing a very handsome, white, open collar silk (so the wife told me) shirt, holding various implements with handles in the kitchen set...it was a red sauce based dish.
Wearing a white shirt when making red sauce is just arrogance.
The Coughlin/Diehl thing was far more understandable for me.
They reached some impressive heights in 2014 and there's no doubt Girardi's personality/leadership/work ethic make a huge impression, especially when you're actually dealing with him on a day to day basis.
I also wouldn't rule out that their D analysis is just flawed (I think judging Dmen is really hard). Yandle should have been experimented with McDonagh last year on the top pair and it didn't happen, for example. It suggests AV has a type (to me).
Pretty good considering some of the defensive personnel he's played behind including: Marek Malik, Sandis Ozolinsh, Jason Strudwick, Thomas Pock, Bryce Lampman, David Liffiton, Ivan Baranka, Christian Backman, Wade Redden, Dmitri Kalinin, Derek Morris, Corey Potter, Erik Reitz, Matt Gilroy, Anders Eriksson, Bobby Sanguinetti, Ilkka Heikkinen, Bryan McCabe, Stu Bickel, Jeff Woywitka, Tim Erixon, Brendan Bell, Roman Hamrlik, Connor Allen, Justin Falk, Michael Kostka and Chris Summers.
Not exactly a Murderers' Row of defensemen.
Essentially Hank has carried this defense for years. The legitimately good defensemen he has played with can be counted on one hand (McD, Yandle, Staal before the injuries?). Now he's slowing down and while I think he's still better than his numbers have shown recently and will bounce back somewhat, the players around him need to start picking him up. I think we have the forwards to start doing that. Hopefully by next season we have the D
Link - ( New Window )
Nash, Mika and Buch tonight - let's fucking go on a run... #LGR
"You don't have to be your best every night when he's back there." (Speaking about Hank)
Well guess what folks, that mentality needs to end and it needs to end immediately.
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More important than who we face is getting #30 his confidence back..
On the other hand surfing for the Caps-Pens game last night I did catch snippets of Henrik as a guest on Mario Batalli wearing a very handsome, white, open collar silk (so the wife told me) shirt, holding various implements with handles in the kitchen set...it was a red sauce based dish.
That Caps-Pens game last night was awesome (except the Pens winning of course!) 9 goals in the 2nd alone.... WOWZA!!
The defense sucks but watching the game from upper deck tonight - these stretch passes are ugly when the opponent is prepared for it. After the initial minute niemmi was able to take a nice nap back there
Terrible combo
Not over with the way the Stars defend either, but this is a pathetic start
Jfc feel like I'm watching a high school team with these mistakes and goaltending And always looking to make stretch passes instead of working for goals.
Nick Holden
But the good thing about hockey is your goalie just has to get hot in the playoffs. Hank may have some undisclosed injury but I think most of it is lack of focus. He will be his old self in the playoffs
The Rangers can't expose him in the expansion draft unless he waves his no move clause...is that correct?
AV doesn't seem interested
The defense sucks but watching the game from upper deck tonight - these stretch passes are ugly when the opponent is prepared for it. After the initial minute niemmi was able to take a nice nap back there
Hit the nail on the head MAB and I've mentioned it more than once this season. A lack of puck carrying Dmen and forcing 50 -100' stretch pasees is just too easy to defend.
It's been a long time since the we've seen this bad a D and G combo
We aren't winning a round or a cup with Raanta so what's the point. Might as well go get Steve Mason or Jimmy Howard is the goal is to make the first round of the playoffs.
That was pathetic.
Is anyone going to give it back to Benn?
I don't think we see Hank in the third period
He needs to sit for an extended amount of time whenever Raanta is back.
He propped up average defense for years. Now he can no longer do it anymore, and we're seeing the results. A disaster
Uh yuh yuy not good. Are we this bad? Or is this just "one of those stretches"?
That Columbus comeback was an eternity. I'll stick this game out but ooofa, this is not very good.
You're probably one of the morons in the crowd sarcastically cheering when he makes a save right now. Ridiculous
He propped up average defense for years. Now he can no longer do it anymore, and we're seeing the results. A disaster
100% agree. This defense is awful. They have one guy who you can convincingly say is a top four dman.
Although something has to be wrong with Hank. He NEVER let in softies at this rate before.
Pose in a new suit, get your hair done, some appearances, photos with the goalie, sign some autographs.
The guy needs more dirt to get his game back. He's lost his edge big time.
Pose in a new suit, get your hair done, some appearances, photos with the goalie, sign some autographs.
The guy needs more dirt to get his game back. He's lost his edge big time.
What's the point of embarrassing him? He knows he's awful right now.
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Who would you rather have right now? Or rather, NOT have?
You're probably one of the morons in the crowd sarcastically cheering when he makes a save right now. Ridiculous
I'm actually at hoe watching this debacle
Tanner Glass the DMAN or Goalie....... Dumb comment by Dugay.
What did valiquette say?
It's not all and none guys. Defense sucks but watching from up high tonight I've never seen 30 look this slow or clueless. If you need the best defense in the league in from of this guy to win in a cap era than forget it. The 5th goal was pure trash.
Let's not forget luongo fell apart under AV too. The system puts a lot of stress on goalies.
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Why not?
Pose in a new suit, get your hair done, some appearances, photos with the goalie, sign some autographs.
The guy needs more dirt to get his game back. He's lost his edge big time.
What's the point of embarrassing him? He knows he's awful right now.
Like a boxer who lost the street, he might need a change. Pulling or keeping him in hasn't changed anything for a while now.
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I agree with what Valiquette is saying on MSG right now.
What did valiquette say?
It's not all and none guys. Defense sucks but watching from up high tonight I've never seen 30 look this slow or clueless. If you need the best defense in the league in from of this guy to win in a cap era than forget it. The 5th goal was pure trash.
Let's not forget luongo fell apart under AV too. The system puts a lot of stress on goalies.
Something along the lines of Henrik putting the team on the map for 10 years and deserves better than how the fans are treating him.
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In comment 13330508 BrettNYG10 said:
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I agree with what Valiquette is saying on MSG right now.
What did valiquette say?
It's not all and none guys. Defense sucks but watching from up high tonight I've never seen 30 look this slow or clueless. If you need the best defense in the league in from of this guy to win in a cap era than forget it. The 5th goal was pure trash.
Let's not forget luongo fell apart under AV too. The system puts a lot of stress on goalies.
Something along the lines of Henrik putting the team on the map for 10 years and deserves better than how the fans are treating him.
That's sentimental and all and I don't condone the sarcastic fans but sometimes mgmt needs a wake up call that we root for the jersey not the player. And no one put the rangers on the map the last 10 years - cmon it's an original 6 franchise not the Tampa lightning.
Just scored 4 goals. Amazing how often we lose in regulation with 4 goals.
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I agree with what Valiquette is saying on MSG right now.
What did valiquette say?
It's not all and none guys. Defense sucks but watching from up high tonight I've never seen 30 look this slow or clueless. If you need the best defense in the league in from of this guy to win in a cap era than forget it. The 5th goal was pure trash.
Let's not forget luongo fell apart under AV too. The system puts a lot of stress on goalies.
He got on the fans for jeering Lundqvist. Said he put the team on the map.
Dallas is so bad. We could have played one of our worst games and still won. Instead we played THE worst game in a long time.
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In comment 13330529 MetsAreBack said:
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In comment 13330508 BrettNYG10 said:
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I agree with what Valiquette is saying on MSG right now.
What did valiquette say?
It's not all and none guys. Defense sucks but watching from up high tonight I've never seen 30 look this slow or clueless. If you need the best defense in the league in from of this guy to win in a cap era than forget it. The 5th goal was pure trash.
Let's not forget luongo fell apart under AV too. The system puts a lot of stress on goalies.
Something along the lines of Henrik putting the team on the map for 10 years and deserves better than how the fans are treating him.
That's sentimental and all and I don't condone the sarcastic fans but sometimes mgmt needs a wake up call that we root for the jersey not the player. And no one put the rangers on the map the last 10 years - cmon it's an original 6 franchise not the Tampa lightning.
Just scored 4 goals. Amazing how often we lose in regulation with 4 goals.
I'm doubtful they make he playoffs more than a few times if they have an average goalie instead of him. He's made a ton of people who don't deserve it a lot of money.
Second of the game. Sorry
Team scored 10 goals last two games including versus Carey price and came away with zero points.
Can't really hope for any better chances than they got there. Literally got like 5 shots on net in 7 seconds.
Fun comeback, but doesn't obscure any of the defensive and goaltending problems and we don't get to play Niemi every game. Toronto will smoke us Thursday if it doesn't get fixed.
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with next to no time on the clock. Instead of a great comeback it just ends up being an embarrassing loss at home to a struggling team.
Can't really hope for any better chances than they got there. Literally got like 5 shots on net in 7 seconds.
Fun comeback, but doesn't obscure any of the defensive and goaltending problems and we don't get to play Niemi every game. Toronto will smoke us Thursday if it doesn't get fixed.
I can hope for better chances in fact I was hoping they'd actually knot it up.
The groundwork for this debacle was laid when they let Stralman walk in favor of Girardi. They could have undone some of that damage by giving Yandle more of a chance with big minutes. But alas, here we are.
My impression was that they sort of let Ulf walk because of the defense and now it's worse. Maybe my reading of the tea leaves was off, though, and he really did leave on his own accord.
A Star was able to chase a puck deep into Rangers' zone, somehow 10 feet ahead of the closest Ranger defender. 2 Rangers followed the opponent with 1 Star between them. Initially, neither man went after the guy chasing the puck. Then BOTH men went after the guy with the puck leaving the Star alone in front of the net. Hank, thankfully, made the save on that guy. That shit was embarrassingly bad.
People giving Hank the Bronx cheer was despicable. However, we saw Derek Jeter get booed so it can happen to anyone.
You simple must defend as a 5 man unit in this league and their structure is shit.
Yes, bad defensemen make that difficult, but like structure overcoming bad oline play in the NFL, you need help from all on the ice.
Again, just a brutal fuckin thread by Anak.
My impression was that they sort of let Ulf walk because of the defense and now it's worse. Maybe my reading of the tea leaves was off, though, and he really did leave on his own accord.
Agree it's the personnel. Piping in to remind people that Girardi was terrible in the playoffs that year. That was probably the best the D ever was, but far from DG's best.
Seriously Davisian nailed it, I watched a lot of the game, Hank has no confidence, and he doesn't because the opponent is getting way too many quality chances and that's happening because not just the defensive breakdowns but the entire 5-man breakdowns.
defense in the NHL is almost like a CB in the NFL, when you F-up it's obvious, but a lot of it starts with the forwards. Not all of it, there is some bad D play, but a lot of it.
I'd shake things up, not change for the sake of change, but seems like players are too comfortable, which isn't unusual in a Vigneault, Therrien, or Julien team. It's their trademark.
It's a logical first step to having pairings next year of
McDonagh Shattenkirk
Staal Ellis
Skjei Holden
Clendening
Which is light years better than what they're trotting out there now.
Is it possible he's hurt or was concussed?
I'd like to think the medical staff would have caught it if he was and he wouldn't have been playing this entire time, but this seems a little worse than just basic struggling on his behalf.
Obviously he wasn't lights out prior to that game either.. he's just seemed particularly lost since.
The play in our end has clearly been bad, too. So it's not all Hank. But either way.. they need to figure this out. It's ugly.
Even better then.
But I think you'd be surprised. Ellis is a 26 year old RD, 2.5m cap hit for 2 more seasons, very solid at both ends, plays specials.
And I meant a pretty good pick / prospect. Not a 6th rounder or a 25 year old AHLer.
Even at 50% that deal saves NYR over $4m on the cap next year.
Plus with both Subban and Josi injured (even short-term) I'm not sure the Preds trade a defenseman.
Subban had a herniated disk, not sure those just heal. reliably.
Is it possible he's hurt or was concussed?
I'd like to think the medical staff would have caught it if he was and he wouldn't have been playing this entire time, but this seems a little worse than just basic struggling on his behalf.
Obviously he wasn't lights out prior to that game either.. he's just seemed particularly lost since.
The play in our end has clearly been bad, too. So it's not all Hank. But either way.. they need to figure this out. It's ugly.
You never know, but he followed up that Dallas performance with very good games against Nashville and NJ. He also played really well at Philly just prior to the break.
I think his confidence is shot.
I am just a fan of a deal similar to this (maybe Ellis isn't exactly the player) where they acquire a decent RD without losing a Miller/Hayes/Stepan/Kreider etc while also freeing up some money to even further improve the D in the offseason.
It's a good mix of not getting too min worse right now while teeing up a bigger offseason revamp.
The Canadiens don't have the greatest track record in trades. Plus they have the best young talent they've had in 20 years. I feel a disaster coming.
the only names I hear are Shattenkirk, Shane Doan who isn't remotely in this class and he's 40, Landeskog (who I like but isn't a big name), and not much else.
Maybe Trouba?
No question the personnel on the back line are limited as a group (and critically so in some individual cases) and are not playing well, but I think it goes beyond that: awareness, positioning, collective poor decision making. It was indeed tough watching HL in the post-game, trying to balance his comments between owning that he is playing poorly, but also assigning causality to play in front of him: he mentioned "structure" a few times, picked up on by MAB and davisian.
As poorly as Henrik has been playing--and he has let in many awful goals in recent weeks, replete from 5-hole gaffes, leaving gaps on the near post on sharp angles (Sharp's goal I think it was, to Valiquette's point on 24 two-on-ones last season), poor awareness and reaction in front, turning the wrong way on the last goal--but last night as well as against Montreal there were a series of collective shit shows in front and behind the net resulting in heavy traffic, scrums and pucks flipping up and around and bouncing the wrong way, pucks going in off skates (McD vs. Montreal). A keeper more on his game would certainly have had a better success rate, but right now team defense is obviously dreadful and HL's play is too.
shockeyisthebest above made what I think is a valid point, two defenders going back behind the net to try to trap the puck leaving huge voids in front; on the PK, I've seen the rotation go so far to the puck side that the two players manning the center ice side of the box are approximately in line with the near post (i.e., closest to the boards where the puck is being played) leaving gaping open ice on the far side and inability to rotate back far or fast enough; this was in part a problem vs. the Leafs.
Unfortunately, I think we're witnessing the worst of both worlds, personnel, and a breakdown in shape/structure, and the faster/harder the opponents' forward lines come, the more glaring the breakdowns. HL is pleading for cleaner ice in front and around him, of course every GK wants that.
In the good piece Kyle linked yesterday ("Kevin"'s analysis of #30), there was also a lot of back and forth about the tenacity of support in front of HL as compared to Cam, AR. It's a theme I've queried going back to last year. To MAB's question "what did Valiquette say?": he also mentioned that HL is obviously not seeing the puck well (game a couple of weeks ago, opening score from just inside the blue line, clear line of sight, flew by HL's glove: I mused maybe he needs vision tests), not reacting well, maybe it is just age. Someone mentioned AV's system being hard on keepers. Team needs to undertake some really uncompromising self-scouting on all fronts.
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According to one well placed source at least, the Habs have been discussing a "Big buy that would rival the newsworthiness of the PK Subban trade. A deal that would be aimed at separating them from the rest of the pack in the East."
The Canadiens don't have the greatest track record in trades. Plus they have the best young talent they've had in 20 years. I feel a disaster coming.
the only names I hear are Shattenkirk, Shane Doan who isn't remotely in this class and he's 40, Landeskog (who I like but isn't a big name), and not much else.
Maybe Trouba?
Interesting - where's it from?
No one trade is separating MTL from Pittsburgh or Washington.
No one trade is separating MTL from Pittsburgh or Washington.
I agree, unless the Stars are dealing Seguin (which I just made up).
it's from Eklund on Hockeybuzz
link - ( New Window )
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I assume that means Atlantic, PJ?
No one trade is separating MTL from Pittsburgh or Washington.
I agree, unless the Stars are dealing Seguin (which I just made up).
it's from Eklund on Hockeybuzz link - ( New Window )
Haha, Eklund. Now it's guaranteed not to happen.
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In comment 13330870 MetsAreBack said:
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I assume that means Atlantic, PJ?
No one trade is separating MTL from Pittsburgh or Washington.
I agree, unless the Stars are dealing Seguin (which I just made up).
it's from Eklund on Hockeybuzz link - ( New Window )
Haha, Eklund. Now it's guaranteed not to happen.
Good. He's wrong more than he's right, but every now and then he nails one.
He's had bad stretches before, so it's not the first time we've ever seen him struggle. He's certainly not getting any help from the play in front of him, though.
Go figure, the year where we're scoring more goals than any team in the NHL, our world-class goaltender suddenly can't stop a beachball from getting through. Sigh...
He's had bad stretches before, so it's not the first time we've ever seen him struggle. He's certainly not getting any help from the play in front of him, though.
Go figure, the year where we're scoring more goals than any team in the NHL, our world-class goaltender suddenly can't stop a beachball from getting through. Sigh...
Henrik or me? :P
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That's true, he has had a few good starts since. Although I don't know if those few starts would be enough evidence to totally rule out the possibility.
He's had bad stretches before, so it's not the first time we've ever seen him struggle. He's certainly not getting any help from the play in front of him, though.
Go figure, the year where we're scoring more goals than any team in the NHL, our world-class goaltender suddenly can't stop a beachball from getting through. Sigh...
Henrik or me? :P
Maybe the real problem is that we have a bunch of ham n' eggers running the threads these days....
You know how Dallas started the game? With a 90-foot drive from the right boards by Stephen Johns. You think teams are unaware of the problems Lundqvist has had both right out of the hopper and on long ones? Think again.
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Last year, Lundqvist allowed a sum of six low-danger goals on 642 shots, per Corsica. This year, he had already allowed eight on 306 shots before the puck was dropped Tuesday. Last year, Lundqvist allowed a total of 34 medium- and low-risk goals on 1,135 shots. This year, already 33 on 512 shots.
It is time to stop comparing this Lundqvist season to any that have come before. It is not like 2013-14. There has never been anything like it. And there hasnt been anything like it in New York for more than 11 years.
2017-18 Contract details by year 34 $9,000,000 - - $8,500,000
2018-19 Contract details by year 35 $7,500,000 - - $8,500,000
2019-20 Contract details by year 36 $7,000,000 - - $8,500,000
2020-21 Contract details by year 37 $5,500,000 - - $8,500,000
Henrik Lundqvist CURRENT CONTRACT - ( New Window )
@Gambo987
Teams interested in trading for Shane Doan - Montreal Canadians, NY Rangers, Washington Capitals.
@Gambo987
Teams interested in trading for Shane Doan - Montreal Canadians, NY Rangers, Washington Capitals.
and he's 106 years old
Jesper Fast is out 7-10 days with an upper body injury
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John GambadoroVerified account
@Gambo987
Teams interested in trading for Shane Doan - Montreal Canadians, NY Rangers, Washington Capitals.
and he's 106 years old
Fuck Him. He's had many chances to leave Phoenix for a shot at winning and passed on all of them to stay home and lose. Last thing the Rangers need is this corpse in uniform.
Amazing how linemates matter, isn't it?
Fire AV.
Good for him. Let's hope he can sell his employee the idea a change of scenery would be best for some old sticks and his brother.
despite the injury which is of course bad luck, it was still easily Gorton's worst move since taking over as GM. Last year's team had no shot to win a Cup, so why did we trade assets?
This organization is huge on "one more try" and pushing the limits on rotating the stock.
I've too have taken heat for Nash and years ago for Staal. They're working out well too.
#atleastifuckinghopeso
Oh by the way all these guys mentioned have NMCs but no biggie.
Seen the act for years.
He's also, as discussed here often, been a force defensively at least.
We all want more. But we're not getting Crosby or Seguin in trade for him, so ride it out... his contract is almost up. I wouldnt be surprised to see him dealt this summer to Toronto. He'd be a great fit for them i think.
I'd need a lot back to trade Nash. even though I acknowledge he's in decline.
despite the injury which is of course bad luck, it was still easily Gorton's worst move since taking over as GM. Last year's team had no shot to win a Cup, so why did we trade assets?
My issue was thinking Staal would fix the obvious issues - the defense. If they traded for a top four guy and failed, that would have been fine, but thinking Eric Staal was the solution to anything was dumb. And I like him as a player.
I'd need a lot back to trade Nash. even though I acknowledge he's in decline.
I 100% agree. I think he's really underrated by Ranger fans. I'm open to trading him for cap space/D help/youth, especially if NYR is still struggling at deadline time.
(I'm assuming Mika signs for $6 or 7 mil a year). The other RFAs are unlikely to get huge raises.
and the only way we bring in KS is if we can shed salary defensively next year -- be it Girardi, Staal, Klein... or better yet all of them.
We cant put ~$27 million into a defense next season that's still likely to be average at best even with Shatty.
The tough decisions get made in summer 2018 but by then Nash is off the books.
My issue was thinking Staal would fix the obvious issues - the defense. If they traded for a top four guy and failed, that would have been fine, but thinking Eric Staal was the solution to anything was dumb. And I like him as a player.
Largely agree, i think they thought he'd add a lot of scoring to the 3rd line which had been so brutal for us the prior playoffs, his overall Corsi% and face-off prowess would help us in the post-season, etc.
But anyone following the team with a basic understanding of metrics knew last year's team wasn't one player away. It was a Sather'esque move by Gorton - shocking for a first year GM trying to build something so he could have a career here -
...thankfully he redeemed himself last summer.
Agree. Market may suffer a little just because the biggest contenders are in-division.
Summer probably makes the most sense as far as trade. I remember Toronto was on his 'would go to' list when we traded for him, and i dont see them in a rush to do this right now.
I am antsy ahead of this trading deadline. With the expansion draft, the Canadiens in contention but injured, and so many teams still on the fence for contention things could get crazy.
I don't know how to gauge the market for anyone (not that I ever really do) but this year in particular.
6 weeks and so much could change, but I see the most active trade deadline in a long time.
I think the Avalanche and the Coyotes are really the only teams legit out of playoff contention 6 weeks from the deadline (maybe that's not unusual, but with the expansion draft and the other factors I think it will be active)
I'll opt for it again with Mike Fisher's time almost up. They have to go for it now.
But as MAB notes, the defense is almost certainly more than a Shattenkirk away from where it needs to be.
As of right now the Rangers are $9m+ under the cap for next year assuming flat cap. Call it $10m assuming a very modest bump in the cap.
Conservatively say $7m for Zib. (You can do it cheaper with a bridge but I hate the idea. No mas bridge please).
That leaves $3m for Lindberg/Pirri/Fast/Peumpel/Clendo. Not enough money.
So you trade away Klein or lose him to expansion and that gets you just under $6m. It would be generous to say that's enough to sign the aforementioned (or fill their roster spots), but let's be generous and say that gets it done. No money left.
Buy out Girardi - that gives you $2.9m of space.
Defense is better addition by subtraction, but you still aren't sniffing Shat money. Sure, there are ways to get there, but even then you've got to wonder if there is enough talent on D.
McD Shat
Skjei Holden
Staal Clendo
Or whatever pairs you want to make from it. Throw Graves in there too if you're bullish.
better, but I still worry about that group.
But as MAB notes, the defense is almost certainly more than a Shattenkirk away from where it needs to be.
As of right now the Rangers are $9m+ under the cap for next year assuming flat cap. Call it $10m assuming a very modest bump in the cap.
Conservatively say $7m for Zib. (You can do it cheaper with a bridge but I hate the idea. No mas bridge please).
That leaves $3m for Lindberg/Pirri/Fast/Peumpel/Clendo. Not enough money.
So you trade away Klein or lose him to expansion and that gets you just under $6m. It would be generous to say that's enough to sign the aforementioned (or fill their roster spots), but let's be generous and say that gets it done. No money left.
Buy out Girardi - that gives you $2.9m of space.
Defense is better addition by subtraction, but you still aren't sniffing Shat money. Sure, there are ways to get there, but even then you've got to wonder if there is enough talent on D.
hoya - I've got $9.85mm space on a flat cap, not 9mm. I think you can assume 11mm. Ziba should get 6mm, but ok on your conservatism there.
Leaves 4mm -- Fast unfortunately, barring a trade of (most likely Nash) before the expansion draft which probably means we dont get the greatest return... is likely the player taken by Vegas.
Frankly I'd prefer Grabner just because he'll be 30 and is a UFA in what will be a tough summer 2018... but figure you lose Fast.
You are carrying 14 forwards right now, you'll go into next season at 13... so Pirri (if he's even re-signed, we may find cheaper), Puempel, Lindberg and Clendening combined only need $4 million. I think that's do-able.
But yeah, to find the $6 mil/year for Shatty you'll need to unload/buy-out Girardi, move Klein and tweak in other areas like maybe trading Raanta and finding a goalie at half the cost. It's doable without trading Nash, but when I look at losing Fast for nothing PLUS having to make all these moves to afford Shattenkirk... yeah it does point to trading Nash before the Vegas draft.
With that said, perhaps a deal can be made for a younger top 4 D-man that won't cost $6-7mil a year on the wrong side of 30 too.... we've made these "shiny" FA acqs in the past, as much as i like Shattenkirk, there is a lot of risk there.
PS. Oh by the way, Yandle has not been very good for Florida this year. And its year one of that deal.
I hope you're wrong. I would need a huge, huge haul.
That's one NMC I'm not even a little bit afraid of. He's 29 at the end of the deal and I think he's going to shatter his career point highs this season and next, especially seeing the way that he and Kreider are piling up stats together.
I can see why from an asset allocation perspective - Stepan's had a really strong year. On pace for ~65 points I believe. I think he's a bit underrated league wide, I never understood why Ryan O'Reilly was perceived to be worth much more when they were both angling for extensions.
I'd rather trade Zucc than Stepan if I had to.
very underwhelmed with Shattenkirk. I know he's the big name out there but I'd pass on him.
He just doesn't create enough offense IMO for an offensive defenseman.
I'd rather make a trade that hurts a little for a Dougie Hamilton or a guy like that, someone with some grit with their offensive game.
I'm with you. Unless we get a real sweetheart deal from Shat, I'm not a big cheerleader for just paying whatever it takes. I won't be sad if they decide to pass.
Shat or no shat, trading Nash is one way of possibly getting a defensement like the one you describe while also making the $ wiggle a little easier. Trading Zucc is the other. Return would be very good, doesn't free up as much money.
Definitely will be interesting to see what they do.
Hockey is the most fun sport to play fake-GM with, IMO.
Gotta give to get, and I think Stepan likely will provide the most value to a trading partner and thus the best return. They have to create cap room to improve the defense, while also not taking too much from the offense. Gordon's got his work cut out for him.
As many of you have said, the big fuck up that they are still paying for was letting Stralman go.
Dont forget Stepan is one of our best two way forwards too.
Ideal world Staal, G and Klein and their contracts are all gone next summer. I'm fine with Holden being Vegas' pick too -- he was a nice find by Gorton, but there's some puck luck in his scoring like we saw with Klein two years ago and Gorton can find those types every summer i think.
I'm also just not nearly as high on Lindberg as some on this board here are. To me he's JAG. Even before his injury late last year, they tried to trade him to Carolina for Staal and Carolina preferred 2nd round draft picks and the kid from Finland.
If the issue is the defense - then restructure the defense. What are we going to do - healthy scratch G and Klein next year? No... then get rid of them by any means necessary.
I'd trade Hayes + for Hamilton.
Hayes does not create offense, he's the beneficiary of offense created by others.
and I wouldn't worry about Vesey being in NY because of Hayes, I haven't been too impressed with Vesey, but he's a rookie so I'll give him some time.
But as we've discussed before, who the fuck knows if this organization even wants to deal him.
I'd trade Hayes + for Hamilton.
.
You don't have the cap space and there is no defense. They need to free up money.
Thank goodness the city, not the Rangers, attracted Hayes and Vessy. My gosh this team doesn't want to part with anybody. Don't move Nash, Staal, Giarardi, Hank, etc. Let's lock them all up so we have no room and think we can somehow trade approx $900K for $5 million, keep everybody, stay under the cap, sign free agents, lose draft picks and, oh by the way, win.
They have to move out money or buy them out. The window slammed shut. Move some pieces rather dream that early offense was going to continue with wild cross ice passes and beautiful goals. Opponents shut the lanes down by Dec and realized the defense still stinks.
You want Hamilton? Then move out age and money rather than inexpensive youth.
Goals scored, last ten games: 6, 4, 2, 5, 5, 1, 6, 6, 4, 4
But yeah, they can't score anymore. Terrific analysis.
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Move some pieces rather dream that early offense was going to continue with wild cross ice passes and beautiful goals. Opponents shut the lanes down by Dec and realized the defense still stinks.
Goals scored, last ten games: 6, 4, 2, 5, 5, 1, 6, 6, 4, 4
But yeah, they can't score anymore. Terrific analysis.
So they're out scoring opponents for win? Looked over the defense still stinks part and the salaries right? You enjoy what you think you're watching. It's our year right?
Not saying Hamilton is the guy, but it makes sense from the standpoint of then being able to protect Fast as the 7th forward and forcing Vegas to choose from 1 year of Grabner (who will be 30+), Holden and/or Klein -- all of which i'm perfectly fine losing in an expansion draft.
I do think after last summer Gorton has earned some trust here. His only mistake IMO was not giving JT more term instead of a bridge deal and trading Klein to afford the higher salary, but what's done is done.
In an ideal world Staal, Girardi and Klein are all playing for other teams next year. Doubt it happens but it was hard to imagine trading Brassard and getting a better player back at cheaper money too.
They are still 28-17 despite Lundqvist having by a mile his worst professional season.
worth every penny by the way. That was awesome.
Now if he could just stop running goalies when we were going to score anyway...
Shattenkirk made it known he would not consider Edmonton long-term, but would he do it for a few months as the Oilers chase the playoffs? Why not? Montreal and Toronto would also make sense as teams that need a short-term burst. Think about it: Those clubs (or anyone else who would be interested) get a good rental. Shattenkirk gets a situation where hes going to play a big role and make himself look even better for his upcoming free agency. (Although, as Ive said before, other teams are convinced he wants to play for the Rangers.) Shattenkirk breaking out with Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner or Connor McDavid would be fun to see.
30 thoughts - ( New Window )
After the Eakin hit and before the bye week:
7 games, .900 sv%, 2.7 GAA
Post bye:
3 games, .789 sv%, 5.3 GAA
(by the way their 3.94 GAA i guess annualizes the Dallas, Montreal and Minnesota games in which he was pulled/came in late... I didnt for my GAA above because that's a good amount of work with minimal return)
Could it be that over a month after the collision Hank just now started having headaches and ramifications? Maybe, but its more likely just a slump + poor structure in front of him... hell maybe even missing the much maligned Marc Staal during this stretch is part of the problem.
It's a better theory i think than a month after a hit a goalie started to stink so that's gotta be the reason...