with next to no time on the clock. Instead of a great comeback it just ends up being an embarrassing loss at home to a struggling team.
Can't really hope for any better chances than they got there. Literally got like 5 shots on net in 7 seconds.
Fun comeback, but doesn't obscure any of the defensive and goaltending problems and we don't get to play Niemi every game. Toronto will smoke us Thursday if it doesn't get fixed.
I can hope for better chances in fact I was hoping they'd actually knot it up.
The simple truth is it has slowly deteriorated both in personnel and scheme since Torts was given the heave ho. Did I say awful? Embarrassing is more like it.
was the best Hank had. That was under AV and the blue line really controlled possession that season and obviously we went to the final. Hank struggled that season up until around this time if you remember, though it was nowhere near as bad as this.
The groundwork for this debacle was laid when they let Stralman walk in favor of Girardi. They could have undone some of that damage by giving Yandle more of a chance with big minutes. But alas, here we are.
I love where the offense is compared to the Torts years
To Kyle's point, it was really good in 13-14. I don't know if the decisions made would have changed.
My impression was that they sort of let Ulf walk because of the defense and now it's worse. Maybe my reading of the tea leaves was off, though, and he really did leave on his own accord.
I only watched 3 minutes of the game (or so) before and after the
7th goal was allowed. In that 3 minutes, the Stars EASILY could've scored 2 or 3 more goals. Because I didn't see 98% of the game, I can't say what percentage of this debacle needs to be on Hank. But in those few minutes I watched, the defense was an abomination.
A Star was able to chase a puck deep into Rangers' zone, somehow 10 feet ahead of the closest Ranger defender. 2 Rangers followed the opponent with 1 Star between them. Initially, neither man went after the guy chasing the puck. Then BOTH men went after the guy with the puck leaving the Star alone in front of the net. Hank, thankfully, made the save on that guy. That shit was embarrassingly bad.
People giving Hank the Bronx cheer was despicable. However, we saw Derek Jeter get booed so it can happen to anyone.
To Kyle's point, it was really good in 13-14. I don't know if the decisions made would have changed.
My impression was that they sort of let Ulf walk because of the defense and now it's worse. Maybe my reading of the tea leaves was off, though, and he really did leave on his own accord.
Agree it's the personnel. Piping in to remind people that Girardi was terrible in the playoffs that year. That was probably the best the D ever was, but far from DG's best.
are spot on. You really think Spock would pull this bullshit and start a Canadiens game thread. He knows I own those.
Seriously Davisian nailed it, I watched a lot of the game, Hank has no confidence, and he doesn't because the opponent is getting way too many quality chances and that's happening because not just the defensive breakdowns but the entire 5-man breakdowns.
defense in the NHL is almost like a CB in the NFL, when you F-up it's obvious, but a lot of it starts with the forwards. Not all of it, there is some bad D play, but a lot of it.
I'd shake things up, not change for the sake of change, but seems like players are too comfortable, which isn't unusual in a Vigneault, Therrien, or Julien team. It's their trademark.
I haven't read the entire thread so maybe someone already mentioned it.. but Hank's numbers have been downright ugly since the Eakin hit from the last time we played Dallas.
Is it possible he's hurt or was concussed?
I'd like to think the medical staff would have caught it if he was and he wouldn't have been playing this entire time, but this seems a little worse than just basic struggling on his behalf.
Obviously he wasn't lights out prior to that game either.. he's just seemed particularly lost since.
The play in our end has clearly been bad, too. So it's not all Hank. But either way.. they need to figure this out. It's ugly.
but IMO he's not really a huge upgrade and if you have to pay half of Nash I'd expect a better return. He's an upgrade, just not enough and I am just not a huge fan of the under 6' defenseman. Though Ellis is physical enough which is one concern they don't generally have the long stick to poke check the puck.
Plus with both Subban and Josi injured (even short-term) I'm not sure the Preds trade a defenseman.
Subban had a herniated disk, not sure those just heal. reliably.
I haven't read the entire thread so maybe someone already mentioned it.. but Hank's numbers have been downright ugly since the Eakin hit from the last time we played Dallas.
Is it possible he's hurt or was concussed?
I'd like to think the medical staff would have caught it if he was and he wouldn't have been playing this entire time, but this seems a little worse than just basic struggling on his behalf.
Obviously he wasn't lights out prior to that game either.. he's just seemed particularly lost since.
The play in our end has clearly been bad, too. So it's not all Hank. But either way.. they need to figure this out. It's ugly.
You never know, but he followed up that Dallas performance with very good games against Nashville and NJ. He also played really well at Philly just prior to the break.
upgrade to Girardi/Klein, but I also appreciate your point.
I am just a fan of a deal similar to this (maybe Ellis isn't exactly the player) where they acquire a decent RD without losing a Miller/Hayes/Stepan/Kreider etc while also freeing up some money to even further improve the D in the offseason.
It's a good mix of not getting too min worse right now while teeing up a bigger offseason revamp.
According to one well placed source at least, the Habs have been discussing a "Big buy that would rival the newsworthiness of the PK Subban trade. A deal that would be aimed at separating them from the rest of the pack in the East."
The Canadiens don't have the greatest track record in trades. Plus they have the best young talent they've had in 20 years. I feel a disaster coming.
the only names I hear are Shattenkirk, Shane Doan who isn't remotely in this class and he's 40, Landeskog (who I like but isn't a big name), and not much else.
Maybe Trouba?
RE: I think the defense is a personnel, not a coaching thing.
No question the personnel on the back line are limited as a group (and critically so in some individual cases) and are not playing well, but I think it goes beyond that: awareness, positioning, collective poor decision making. It was indeed tough watching HL in the post-game, trying to balance his comments between owning that he is playing poorly, but also assigning causality to play in front of him: he mentioned "structure" a few times, picked up on by MAB and davisian.
As poorly as Henrik has been playing--and he has let in many awful goals in recent weeks, replete from 5-hole gaffes, leaving gaps on the near post on sharp angles (Sharp's goal I think it was, to Valiquette's point on 24 two-on-ones last season), poor awareness and reaction in front, turning the wrong way on the last goal--but last night as well as against Montreal there were a series of collective shit shows in front and behind the net resulting in heavy traffic, scrums and pucks flipping up and around and bouncing the wrong way, pucks going in off skates (McD vs. Montreal). A keeper more on his game would certainly have had a better success rate, but right now team defense is obviously dreadful and HL's play is too.
shockeyisthebest above made what I think is a valid point, two defenders going back behind the net to try to trap the puck leaving huge voids in front; on the PK, I've seen the rotation go so far to the puck side that the two players manning the center ice side of the box are approximately in line with the near post (i.e., closest to the boards where the puck is being played) leaving gaping open ice on the far side and inability to rotate back far or fast enough; this was in part a problem vs. the Leafs.
Unfortunately, I think we're witnessing the worst of both worlds, personnel, and a breakdown in shape/structure, and the faster/harder the opponents' forward lines come, the more glaring the breakdowns. HL is pleading for cleaner ice in front and around him, of course every GK wants that.
In the good piece Kyle linked yesterday ("Kevin"'s analysis of #30), there was also a lot of back and forth about the tenacity of support in front of HL as compared to Cam, AR. It's a theme I've queried going back to last year. To MAB's question "what did Valiquette say?": he also mentioned that HL is obviously not seeing the puck well (game a couple of weeks ago, opening score from just inside the blue line, clear line of sight, flew by HL's glove: I mused maybe he needs vision tests), not reacting well, maybe it is just age. Someone mentioned AV's system being hard on keepers. Team needs to undertake some really uncompromising self-scouting on all fronts.
eh, not sure you can say it was getting run in Dallas that's hurt him
He was perfectly good in his first two games after that - allowed one goal in carrying them to a win in Nashville and two goals in a win over Jersey. Got bombed by Minnesota but bounced back against Colorado. Bad start against Buffalo, great start against Philly, and it's been a house of horrors since. 4+ goals allowed in six of his past eight appearances, and in two of those he didn't even play a full game.
According to one well placed source at least, the Habs have been discussing a "Big buy that would rival the newsworthiness of the PK Subban trade. A deal that would be aimed at separating them from the rest of the pack in the East."
The Canadiens don't have the greatest track record in trades. Plus they have the best young talent they've had in 20 years. I feel a disaster coming.
the only names I hear are Shattenkirk, Shane Doan who isn't remotely in this class and he's 40, Landeskog (who I like but isn't a big name), and not much else.
That's true, he has had a few good starts since. Although I don't know if those few starts would be enough evidence to totally rule out the possibility.
He's had bad stretches before, so it's not the first time we've ever seen him struggle. He's certainly not getting any help from the play in front of him, though.
Go figure, the year where we're scoring more goals than any team in the NHL, our world-class goaltender suddenly can't stop a beachball from getting through. Sigh...
Some bizarre goals being scored against us lately. A lot of it is awful defensive coverage. Henrik isn't playing well either. Add it all up and you see them giving up 4+ goals on a regular basis.
That's true, he has had a few good starts since. Although I don't know if those few starts would be enough evidence to totally rule out the possibility.
He's had bad stretches before, so it's not the first time we've ever seen him struggle. He's certainly not getting any help from the play in front of him, though.
Go figure, the year where we're scoring more goals than any team in the NHL, our world-class goaltender suddenly can't stop a beachball from getting through. Sigh...
That's true, he has had a few good starts since. Although I don't know if those few starts would be enough evidence to totally rule out the possibility.
He's had bad stretches before, so it's not the first time we've ever seen him struggle. He's certainly not getting any help from the play in front of him, though.
Go figure, the year where we're scoring more goals than any team in the NHL, our world-class goaltender suddenly can't stop a beachball from getting through. Sigh...
Henrik or me? :P
Maybe the real problem is that we have a bunch of ham n' eggers running the threads these days....
This is going into last night when the metrics got even worse. The Sharp goal for sure was low-danger. Several of the others (i'm guessing the 3rd and 6th goals) were medium risk...
Quote:
You know how Dallas started the game? With a 90-foot drive from the right boards by Stephen Johns. You think teams are unaware of the problems Lundqvist has had both right out of the hopper and on long ones? Think again.
...
Last year, Lundqvist allowed a sum of six low-danger goals on 642 shots, per Corsica. This year, he had already allowed eight on 306 shots before the puck was dropped Tuesday. Last year, Lundqvist allowed a total of 34 medium- and low-risk goals on 1,135 shots. This year, already 33 on 512 shots.
It is time to stop comparing this Lundqvist season to any that have come before. It is not like 2013-14. There has never been anything like it. And there hasnt been anything like it in New York for more than 11 years.
well, I know I'll get a ton of shit for this, but 2 years ago
a lot of folks, me included , posted that as great as Lundqvist was, it might make sense to trade him and keep Talbot. I was skewered for it. Reason being that they probably missed their window to win the Cup as constituted, that he was nearing the end of his peak, and that his cap hit would be an albtross as he aged. Well, here we are, he's 35 and giving up a ton of shit goals and not playing up to that contract anymore. Except now you can't trade him, he's too expensive and his play is suspect. Here are the remaining terms of his contract, which he will complete at age 37. The left side # is the salary, right side # is the cap hit:
2017-18 Contract details by year 34 $9,000,000 - - $8,500,000
2018-19 Contract details by year 35 $7,500,000 - - $8,500,000
2019-20 Contract details by year 36 $7,000,000 - - $8,500,000
2020-21 Contract details by year 37 $5,500,000 - - $8,500,000 Henrik Lundqvist CURRENT CONTRACT - ( New Window )
How would this help us? He doesn't play defense...
John GambadoroVerified account
@Gambo987
Teams interested in trading for Shane Doan - Montreal Canadians, NY Rangers, Washington Capitals.
and he's 106 years old
j
Fuck Him. He's had many chances to leave Phoenix for a shot at winning and passed on all of them to stay home and lose. Last thing the Rangers need is this corpse in uniform.
RE: Side note, Eric Staal has 39 points in 43 games.
has been linked to two Coyotes veterans, Doan - major pass - I see nothing he brings but a veteran presence and it's not like a Hossa or anything where he's got playoff experience and is an aging star - he's just a name a this point, and Martin Hanzal who I wouldn't mind as a rental, he's a UFA after the season and has size the Canadiens don't really have.
most of his duration here, exacerbated late in the year when his head was slammed into the ice off a face-off i think it was.
despite the injury which is of course bad luck, it was still easily Gorton's worst move since taking over as GM. Last year's team had no shot to win a Cup, so why did we trade assets?
Quote:
with next to no time on the clock. Instead of a great comeback it just ends up being an embarrassing loss at home to a struggling team.
Can't really hope for any better chances than they got there. Literally got like 5 shots on net in 7 seconds.
Fun comeback, but doesn't obscure any of the defensive and goaltending problems and we don't get to play Niemi every game. Toronto will smoke us Thursday if it doesn't get fixed.
I can hope for better chances in fact I was hoping they'd actually knot it up.
The groundwork for this debacle was laid when they let Stralman walk in favor of Girardi. They could have undone some of that damage by giving Yandle more of a chance with big minutes. But alas, here we are.
My impression was that they sort of let Ulf walk because of the defense and now it's worse. Maybe my reading of the tea leaves was off, though, and he really did leave on his own accord.
A Star was able to chase a puck deep into Rangers' zone, somehow 10 feet ahead of the closest Ranger defender. 2 Rangers followed the opponent with 1 Star between them. Initially, neither man went after the guy chasing the puck. Then BOTH men went after the guy with the puck leaving the Star alone in front of the net. Hank, thankfully, made the save on that guy. That shit was embarrassingly bad.
People giving Hank the Bronx cheer was despicable. However, we saw Derek Jeter get booed so it can happen to anyone.
You simple must defend as a 5 man unit in this league and their structure is shit.
Yes, bad defensemen make that difficult, but like structure overcoming bad oline play in the NFL, you need help from all on the ice.
Again, just a brutal fuckin thread by Anak.
My impression was that they sort of let Ulf walk because of the defense and now it's worse. Maybe my reading of the tea leaves was off, though, and he really did leave on his own accord.
Agree it's the personnel. Piping in to remind people that Girardi was terrible in the playoffs that year. That was probably the best the D ever was, but far from DG's best.
Seriously Davisian nailed it, I watched a lot of the game, Hank has no confidence, and he doesn't because the opponent is getting way too many quality chances and that's happening because not just the defensive breakdowns but the entire 5-man breakdowns.
defense in the NHL is almost like a CB in the NFL, when you F-up it's obvious, but a lot of it starts with the forwards. Not all of it, there is some bad D play, but a lot of it.
I'd shake things up, not change for the sake of change, but seems like players are too comfortable, which isn't unusual in a Vigneault, Therrien, or Julien team. It's their trademark.
It's a logical first step to having pairings next year of
McDonagh Shattenkirk
Staal Ellis
Skjei Holden
Clendening
Which is light years better than what they're trotting out there now.
Is it possible he's hurt or was concussed?
I'd like to think the medical staff would have caught it if he was and he wouldn't have been playing this entire time, but this seems a little worse than just basic struggling on his behalf.
Obviously he wasn't lights out prior to that game either.. he's just seemed particularly lost since.
The play in our end has clearly been bad, too. So it's not all Hank. But either way.. they need to figure this out. It's ugly.
Even better then.
But I think you'd be surprised. Ellis is a 26 year old RD, 2.5m cap hit for 2 more seasons, very solid at both ends, plays specials.
And I meant a pretty good pick / prospect. Not a 6th rounder or a 25 year old AHLer.
Even at 50% that deal saves NYR over $4m on the cap next year.
Plus with both Subban and Josi injured (even short-term) I'm not sure the Preds trade a defenseman.
Subban had a herniated disk, not sure those just heal. reliably.
Is it possible he's hurt or was concussed?
I'd like to think the medical staff would have caught it if he was and he wouldn't have been playing this entire time, but this seems a little worse than just basic struggling on his behalf.
Obviously he wasn't lights out prior to that game either.. he's just seemed particularly lost since.
The play in our end has clearly been bad, too. So it's not all Hank. But either way.. they need to figure this out. It's ugly.
You never know, but he followed up that Dallas performance with very good games against Nashville and NJ. He also played really well at Philly just prior to the break.
I think his confidence is shot.
I am just a fan of a deal similar to this (maybe Ellis isn't exactly the player) where they acquire a decent RD without losing a Miller/Hayes/Stepan/Kreider etc while also freeing up some money to even further improve the D in the offseason.
It's a good mix of not getting too min worse right now while teeing up a bigger offseason revamp.
The Canadiens don't have the greatest track record in trades. Plus they have the best young talent they've had in 20 years. I feel a disaster coming.
the only names I hear are Shattenkirk, Shane Doan who isn't remotely in this class and he's 40, Landeskog (who I like but isn't a big name), and not much else.
Maybe Trouba?
No question the personnel on the back line are limited as a group (and critically so in some individual cases) and are not playing well, but I think it goes beyond that: awareness, positioning, collective poor decision making. It was indeed tough watching HL in the post-game, trying to balance his comments between owning that he is playing poorly, but also assigning causality to play in front of him: he mentioned "structure" a few times, picked up on by MAB and davisian.
As poorly as Henrik has been playing--and he has let in many awful goals in recent weeks, replete from 5-hole gaffes, leaving gaps on the near post on sharp angles (Sharp's goal I think it was, to Valiquette's point on 24 two-on-ones last season), poor awareness and reaction in front, turning the wrong way on the last goal--but last night as well as against Montreal there were a series of collective shit shows in front and behind the net resulting in heavy traffic, scrums and pucks flipping up and around and bouncing the wrong way, pucks going in off skates (McD vs. Montreal). A keeper more on his game would certainly have had a better success rate, but right now team defense is obviously dreadful and HL's play is too.
shockeyisthebest above made what I think is a valid point, two defenders going back behind the net to try to trap the puck leaving huge voids in front; on the PK, I've seen the rotation go so far to the puck side that the two players manning the center ice side of the box are approximately in line with the near post (i.e., closest to the boards where the puck is being played) leaving gaping open ice on the far side and inability to rotate back far or fast enough; this was in part a problem vs. the Leafs.
Unfortunately, I think we're witnessing the worst of both worlds, personnel, and a breakdown in shape/structure, and the faster/harder the opponents' forward lines come, the more glaring the breakdowns. HL is pleading for cleaner ice in front and around him, of course every GK wants that.
In the good piece Kyle linked yesterday ("Kevin"'s analysis of #30), there was also a lot of back and forth about the tenacity of support in front of HL as compared to Cam, AR. It's a theme I've queried going back to last year. To MAB's question "what did Valiquette say?": he also mentioned that HL is obviously not seeing the puck well (game a couple of weeks ago, opening score from just inside the blue line, clear line of sight, flew by HL's glove: I mused maybe he needs vision tests), not reacting well, maybe it is just age. Someone mentioned AV's system being hard on keepers. Team needs to undertake some really uncompromising self-scouting on all fronts.
Quote:
According to one well placed source at least, the Habs have been discussing a "Big buy that would rival the newsworthiness of the PK Subban trade. A deal that would be aimed at separating them from the rest of the pack in the East."
The Canadiens don't have the greatest track record in trades. Plus they have the best young talent they've had in 20 years. I feel a disaster coming.
the only names I hear are Shattenkirk, Shane Doan who isn't remotely in this class and he's 40, Landeskog (who I like but isn't a big name), and not much else.
Maybe Trouba?
Interesting - where's it from?
No one trade is separating MTL from Pittsburgh or Washington.
No one trade is separating MTL from Pittsburgh or Washington.
I agree, unless the Stars are dealing Seguin (which I just made up).
it's from Eklund on Hockeybuzz
link - ( New Window )
Quote:
I assume that means Atlantic, PJ?
No one trade is separating MTL from Pittsburgh or Washington.
I agree, unless the Stars are dealing Seguin (which I just made up).
it's from Eklund on Hockeybuzz link - ( New Window )
Haha, Eklund. Now it's guaranteed not to happen.
Quote:
In comment 13330870 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
I assume that means Atlantic, PJ?
No one trade is separating MTL from Pittsburgh or Washington.
I agree, unless the Stars are dealing Seguin (which I just made up).
it's from Eklund on Hockeybuzz link - ( New Window )
Haha, Eklund. Now it's guaranteed not to happen.
Good. He's wrong more than he's right, but every now and then he nails one.
He's had bad stretches before, so it's not the first time we've ever seen him struggle. He's certainly not getting any help from the play in front of him, though.
Go figure, the year where we're scoring more goals than any team in the NHL, our world-class goaltender suddenly can't stop a beachball from getting through. Sigh...
He's had bad stretches before, so it's not the first time we've ever seen him struggle. He's certainly not getting any help from the play in front of him, though.
Go figure, the year where we're scoring more goals than any team in the NHL, our world-class goaltender suddenly can't stop a beachball from getting through. Sigh...
Henrik or me? :P
Quote:
That's true, he has had a few good starts since. Although I don't know if those few starts would be enough evidence to totally rule out the possibility.
He's had bad stretches before, so it's not the first time we've ever seen him struggle. He's certainly not getting any help from the play in front of him, though.
Go figure, the year where we're scoring more goals than any team in the NHL, our world-class goaltender suddenly can't stop a beachball from getting through. Sigh...
Henrik or me? :P
Maybe the real problem is that we have a bunch of ham n' eggers running the threads these days....
You know how Dallas started the game? With a 90-foot drive from the right boards by Stephen Johns. You think teams are unaware of the problems Lundqvist has had both right out of the hopper and on long ones? Think again.
...
Last year, Lundqvist allowed a sum of six low-danger goals on 642 shots, per Corsica. This year, he had already allowed eight on 306 shots before the puck was dropped Tuesday. Last year, Lundqvist allowed a total of 34 medium- and low-risk goals on 1,135 shots. This year, already 33 on 512 shots.
It is time to stop comparing this Lundqvist season to any that have come before. It is not like 2013-14. There has never been anything like it. And there hasnt been anything like it in New York for more than 11 years.
2017-18 Contract details by year 34 $9,000,000 - - $8,500,000
2018-19 Contract details by year 35 $7,500,000 - - $8,500,000
2019-20 Contract details by year 36 $7,000,000 - - $8,500,000
2020-21 Contract details by year 37 $5,500,000 - - $8,500,000
Henrik Lundqvist CURRENT CONTRACT - ( New Window )
@Gambo987
Teams interested in trading for Shane Doan - Montreal Canadians, NY Rangers, Washington Capitals.
@Gambo987
Teams interested in trading for Shane Doan - Montreal Canadians, NY Rangers, Washington Capitals.
and he's 106 years old
Jesper Fast is out 7-10 days with an upper body injury
Quote:
John GambadoroVerified account
@Gambo987
Teams interested in trading for Shane Doan - Montreal Canadians, NY Rangers, Washington Capitals.
and he's 106 years old
Fuck Him. He's had many chances to leave Phoenix for a shot at winning and passed on all of them to stay home and lose. Last thing the Rangers need is this corpse in uniform.
Amazing how linemates matter, isn't it?
Fire AV.
Good for him. Let's hope he can sell his employee the idea a change of scenery would be best for some old sticks and his brother.
despite the injury which is of course bad luck, it was still easily Gorton's worst move since taking over as GM. Last year's team had no shot to win a Cup, so why did we trade assets?