I have posted something along these lines for the past several off seasons and it needs to be done again. The worst mistake you can make as a GM or anyone else for that matter is to overevaluate your roster.
We have to be realistic here and recognize what we have and don't have. Reese has made this mistake previously and I hope, despite the good season, he does not make the same mistake again. Clearly, a mistake has been made with Flowers. We have evaluated him as far better than his performance has shown. He must be moved to either RT or RG or the bench, whatever is best for the team. We need a major upgrade on the Oline and that will be difficult considering this is a weak OL draft.
I would definitely not overpay for JPP. He is a good football player but let's look at his play. 7 sacks, three of which came against Cleveland. He is an excellent run defender and has other attributes such as his ability to knock down passes and block field goals but his abilities as a pass rusher are overrated. He does not have a vast array of moves and is generally either a speed or bull rusher. Let's not forget, he has missed large portions of the last several seasons and always seems to be nicked up. And he is getting older...7 years with the Giants, only 1 full 16 game season. I want him back but not at all cost. Certainly, I would either transition or franchise tag him unless a deal can be reached.
At any rate, let's not make the mistake of thinking this roster is good enough. It isn't. At this point in his career, Eli needs a very good running game (he always did actually) and that means we need better running backs and a much better offensive line. JR's record on this is not impressive.
So by saying that we shouldn't make the mistake of overvaluing our roster all you are doing guessing, just like every other poster on BBI.
I guess Matthews' don't count if they came against Flowers?
:-)
1. Hate Reese
2. Hate Flowers
3. The team isn't good enough
4. Here are all my ideas that are better than Reese's at fixing the team
How many posts do you have to make to get your point across? We all get it man.
He has done the same with the offensive line...Flowers a mistake among many others. As I mentioned, this has to be an honest evaluation. FA should be to fill in holes not to build your team.
I'm pretty sure he knows our team needs to get better, just like Belichick did after going 18-1 and losing to us. No GM, good or bad, assumes their team is as good as it can possibly be.
He has done the same with the offensive line...Flowers a mistake among many others. As I mentioned, this has to be an honest evaluation. FA should be to fill in holes not to build your team.
You are fucking brutal. Like barb-wire up the pee-hole brutal.
Ok asshole. Let's see. Starters on offense:
Eli (drafted)
Beckham (drafted)
Shepard (drafted)
Cruz (undrafted FA)
Jennings and Perkins (FA, drafted)
Flowers (drafted)
Pugh (drafted)
Richburg (drafted)
Jerry (FA)
Newhouse/Hart (FA, drafted)
Defense:
JPP (drafted)
Hank (drafted)
Harrison (FA)
Vernon (FA)
Kennard (drafted)
Sheppard(FA)
Casillas/Robinson (FA)
Collins (drafted)
Thompson (drafted)
Jenkins (FA)
Apple (drafted)
DRC (FA)
By my count - that's 14 out of 22 starters on this team who were DRAFTED by Jerry Reese. Get your facts straight first before you start spreading shit that has no basis in reality. Reese builds the team through drafts and plugs holes via FA. He's ALWAYS done this.
As for Flowers, the scouting reports on him prior to his being drafted have been reflected by his play. I know he is young but it would appear, at this stage in his career, he is a hardhead and not willing to work to fix his technique which is his major problem.
The thing I am also trying to get people to look at is that we have a small window left with Eli and we have let the past 5 years slip by with our franchise QB getting older with little help from the GM. Now, these are facts...so if you think that is hating on Reese and Flowers, so be it. For me, this is unemotional...just looking at the performance of our GM on evidence based criteria.
As for Flowers, the scouting reports on him prior to his being drafted have been reflected by his play. I know he is young but it would appear, at this stage in his career, he is a hardhead and not willing to work to fix his technique which is his major problem.
The thing I am also trying to get people to look at is that we have a small window left with Eli and we have let the past 5 years slip by with our franchise QB getting older with little help from the GM. Now, these are facts...so if you think that is hating on Reese and Flowers, so be it. For me, this is unemotional...just looking at the performance of our GM on evidence based criteria.
We get it you dolt. How's this for performance? 11-5.
Haha, oh alright sorry man, 13 out of 22.
I strongly believe (just an educated guess) that you will see more and more teams do what the Giants did last year, that is, go after (if possible) players who have completed their FIRST contracts..
Give it time. I'm sure someone will come up with something dumber.
I've always wondered what BBI get-togethers were like: is it a bunch of people drooling on themselves? I have a hard time believing BBIers are as stupid in person. I'd have to leave the room.
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could be the dumbest thread I've ever seen in the history of this site, and that's saying something.
Give it time. I'm sure someone will come up with something dumber.
I've always wondered what BBI get-togethers were like: is it a bunch of people drooling on themselves? I have a hard time believing BBIers are as stupid in person. I'd have to leave the room.
lol you've been here long enough to know better. This board consists largely of stupid posters.
Cruz absolutely fell into their lap as somebody from a college in their area. They didn't scout him and unearth him as a original free agent find like they did with Kerry Wynn or Romeo Okwara.
Same has been done on offense and many of the players you reference have not performed such as Flowers and Kennard only started playing this year. Before that, he was an injury waiting to happen. As for our LBs generally, that is an area of weakness on our D, not a strength. Now, maybe Goodson can make a big step next year but we need a major impact player there. As for others like Thompson or Berhe, again, guys who get injured consistently are not guys I want on my team.
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could be the dumbest thread I've ever seen in the history of this site, and that's saying something.
Give it time. I'm sure someone will come up with something dumber.
I've always wondered what BBI get-togethers were like: is it a bunch of people drooling on themselves? I have a hard time believing BBIers are as stupid in person. I'd have to leave the room.
Ask about the Tater tots story
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In comment 13329922 ryanmkeane said:
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could be the dumbest thread I've ever seen in the history of this site, and that's saying something.
Give it time. I'm sure someone will come up with something dumber.
I've always wondered what BBI get-togethers were like: is it a bunch of people drooling on themselves? I have a hard time believing BBIers are as stupid in person. I'd have to leave the room.
Ask about the Tater tots story
Lol. Do I want to know?
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In comment 13329922 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
could be the dumbest thread I've ever seen in the history of this site, and that's saying something.
Give it time. I'm sure someone will come up with something dumber.
I've always wondered what BBI get-togethers were like: is it a bunch of people drooling on themselves? I have a hard time believing BBIers are as stupid in person. I'd have to leave the room.
lol you've been here long enough to know better. This board consists largely of stupid posters.
Has to 95%+
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In comment 13329930 drkenneth said:
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In comment 13329922 ryanmkeane said:
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could be the dumbest thread I've ever seen in the history of this site, and that's saying something.
Give it time. I'm sure someone will come up with something dumber.
I've always wondered what BBI get-togethers were like: is it a bunch of people drooling on themselves? I have a hard time believing BBIers are as stupid in person. I'd have to leave the room.
Ask about the Tater tots story
Lol. Do I want to know?
It was no biggie. It's taken on a life of its own
Right, perhaps. As in, he was basically the best defensive rookie in the league this year.
Cruz absolutely fell into their lap as somebody from a college in their area. They didn't scout him and unearth him as a original free agent find like they did with Kerry Wynn or Romeo Okwara.
Fell into their lap? Didn't they go out and make a FA offer to him? I am sure they had an evaluation of him.
You act like he showed up at Met Life doorstep and said give me a tryout.
They get credit for finding him.
As said in another thread, if you aren't getting better, you are getting worse.
Reese and the Giants know this...............
Spending money doesn't equate to success.
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Accorsi got Eli in a very expensive trade with San Diego.
Cruz absolutely fell into their lap as somebody from a college in their area. They didn't scout him and unearth him as a original free agent find like they did with Kerry Wynn or Romeo Okwara.
Fell into their lap? Didn't they go out and make a FA offer to him? I am sure they had an evaluation of him.
You act like he showed up at Met Life doorstep and said give me a tryout.
They get credit for finding him.
Some people will fight tooth and nail to not give Reese credit for anything ever. I hope he's GM for life just to see those people get annoyed around here.
The man is an OT only. This is not a weakness if he is a good one, but is a weakness if he is not.
Are his current problems caused by lack of minimum LT foot quickness, poor technique or both?
Naturally, if minimum foot quickness is the root of the problem, moving him to RT should solve the problem when combined with better hand placement and punch skills.
If minimum foot quickness is not the root of the LT problem, then moving him does what exactly?
Just maybe the coaches suck as teachers and motivators. I am not arguing this, but suggesting it is as much part of a JR master plan as just bringing in a different LT and claiming the problem is fixed.
It really isn't. He posts the same thing over and over again and disguises it with a new subject. This time it's a lecture on not over valuing our roster which is a ridiculous concept at this level of sport. It suggests Reese isn't trying to make this team better.
Reese has his warts but the undertones of the OP is so ridiculous.
For certain, a starting tackle needs to be added this off season. Whether it be a RT, or a LT and slide Flowers over. You mentioned guard. What have you seen that makes you think he could handle that?
My God. Acting like anyone who strays from towing the company line and praising the Giants top to bottom is a complete idiot and has no right to speak their mind is the definition of ignorant.
And you're all surprised the 45th President is Donald Trump.
My God. Acting like anyone who strays from towing the company line and praising the Giants top to bottom is a complete idiot and has no right to speak their mind is the definition of ignorant.
And you're all surprised the 45th President is Donald Trump.
There's a big difference in offering a reasonable, lucid opinion, and being ignorant. There's way too much of the latter here.
My God. Acting like anyone who strays from towing the company line and praising the Giants top to bottom is a complete idiot and has no right to speak their mind is the definition of ignorant.
And you're all surprised the 45th President is Donald Trump.
Did you read this entire thread? I posted plenty of reasons why the bullshit this guy says isn't rooted in any facts, whatsoever. Not unlike our next president, by the way.
You might overvalue people
Not sure how you over-evaluate people
My God. Acting like anyone who strays from towing the company line and praising the Giants top to bottom is a complete idiot and has no right to speak their mind is the definition of ignorant.
And you're all surprised the 45th President is Donald Trump.
Well done, Dan.
The OP makes some very valid points Some on here are too willing to give Reese a pass.
Wasn't it Reese who said "Offense is a mystery,"?
I believe that quite a few things are mysteries to Reese.
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OP has both good a debatable thoughts.
It really isn't. He posts the same thing over and over again and disguises it with a new subject. This time it's a lecture on not over valuing our roster which is a ridiculous concept at this level of sport. It suggests Reese isn't trying to make this team better.
Reese has his warts but the undertones of the OP is so ridiculous.
He made some good points and some debatable ones. Nobody has defended Reese or Spags as much as I have yet even I can see the mistakes.
He hasn't really said anything which isn't true.
That's where I would go. The guy is going to be 30 years old at this time next year. He likely just had hernia surgery.
Resign Hankins (the kid is a baby)
Top pick or picks should be OL. It's ridiculous to have 3 starters, one of which is likely out of place. They have two backups starting and nobody to back anybody up.
I've defended Reese forever. Let's be fair though, he had Watkins rated above OBJ and Bey rated higher than Nicks. The OL is what it is, there is literally no TE on the team and he just bought a lot on defense so this roster could finally make the playoffs.
He and this whole front office have to draft better and can't break the bank for anybody over 28 years old IMO.
Just looking back....
Steve Smith
Jay Alford... Not exactly a Pro Bowler but was coming along nicely before he blew his knee
Kevin Boss... Concussions ended his run with Giants & career soon after that
Goff... Was coming along too before he tore ACL/MCL in his knee
Terrell Thomas
Kenny Phillips
Nicks
Chad Jones... didnt even make it to his first camp
Cruz
David Wilson
Ballard
Like I said, maybe other teams had similar problems/number of injuries, but it definitely hurts trying to re-stock the roster when a bunch of decent players have career ending/altering injuries
The same question can be asked of people who continue to say "I wouldn't overpay for JPP"
What is that so called overpay number. Look at the salaries of the 4-3 DE and tell me what he should get:
M. Bennett, J. Odrick, E. Griffen, M. Williams, V. Curry all make 8.5M. C. jordan makes 11 and R. Quinn makes 14. JPP is better than all of them
Give him a 4 year deal 50M - give him 33 guaranteed (21 SB - more than Vernon) - that gets him the highest guaranteed money per year for a 4-3DE - there is his nugget. It is still worth it
What is that so called overpay number. Look at the salaries of the 4-3 DE and tell me what he should get:
Give him a 4 year deal 50M - give him 33 guaranteed (21 SB - more than Vernon) - that gets him the highest guaranteed money per year for a 4-3DE - there is his nugget. It is still worth it
You ask what the over pay number, give him the highest guarantee money over s short time yet it's $22 million short of Vernon's guaranteed money so it likely won't work (unless the $55 million Vernon money is incorrect).
Want to give a 29 yr old JPP $55 million in guaranteed cash coming off hernia surgery with 24/25 yr old Hankins due money and OBJ/Collins appears destined for a boat load within 3 years?
You may think that he's overrated as a pass rusher and you might be right. But the guy makes plays. Eight passes batted away at the line. No one else does that. Vernon had none. A key blocked field goal. And he plays the run well.
I don't want to make a big defense of him. I'm not sure myself what kind of a pass rusher he is now. In the first half of the season the defensive line was very disappointing with its pass rushing. It took talented backs like DRC and Collins to bring the pressure when needed. If you remember back then, Vernon's contract was beginning to be questioned.
Vernon ended up All-Pro and Pierre-Paul, it was disclosed, was going to be NFC East comeback player of the year before he was injured.
In the second half the pass rush picked up. JPP and company started chasing quarterbacks around, without bringing them down as often as they should have.
Did the defense just play better because of weak opposition, or did they just begin to gel after a half season of getting used to each other?
Anyway, the theme of this offseason that most seem to actually agree on is that we have to take our shot at another championship now because Eli's meter is running down. We have to keep JPP even if we end up overpaying him because we have no one remotely as good to replace him. Sometimes if you want to win you just have to throw the dice and hope that they don't come up boxcars.
Vernon guaranteed money is 40M fully guaranteed. The remainder is based upon 2018 and is not fully guaranteed.
Yes I am giving JPP that contract. Yes, he misses games - most do. What impact did Vernon have with his bad hand - none, and we all bitched about it.
You have to look at the market - he is a better player than guys making a lot of money.
Second, who are you replacing him with on a full time basis, because you do not want to pay him
Vernon guaranteed money is 40M fully guaranteed. The remainder is based upon 2018 and is not fully guaranteed.
Second, who are you replacing him with on a full time basis, because you do not want to pay him
Thank you. $40 million guaranteed is quite a difference from $55 million. That number is more reasonable.
Have to rotate the stock though. Can't have two DE's and two DT making a ton, keep Eli and soon pay OBJ and Collins within a few years. Crazy, it actually makes a year difference with Collins going #1 in Round 2 rather than #32 in Round 1.
Then we look at the OL. For years they've needed to draft more OL. IMO, for the 3rd year in a row I think they have to go back to back OL.
Pugh isn't even a given despite many of us likely ranking him as the best lineman. The guy has had concussion issues and he's nothing spectacular. Richburg, I like him a lot but he did have issues this year. Flowers? Have to find a better position for him. Jerry and Newhouse are backups who find themselves in starting roles b/c there is literally no depth. It's ridiculous. Then we have Hart, a 7th Rounder who the desperately needs b/c there are literally no other bodies.
It does kind of suck to give JPP all that guaranteed money in 2015 and 2016 but it would give the Giants one more year of his play and no more money after. I'm torn on this...it doesn't really make any financial sense to give JPP that guaranteed loot for only two years...really it's terrible. Can the Giants go 3 years 25 million guaranteed? Tell JPP he already got the FT money last year UP FRONT...
Tough call...another FT really sucks when you factor in all the guaranteed money JPP is getting for two seasons of play.
PLus, EVERY team spends a lot of money. You use this as some sort of way to condemn or complain about Reese. It's weak.
I'm always the last in on secrets. Why don't you like JPP? I mean, I wouldn't invite him to my daughter's wedding, but management was supposed to be very impressed when he returned for the last half of the 2015 season and contributed. They were also supposed to be impressed when he reported this year, with a good attitude, in excellent shape and with a strong work ethic.
I could be missing something..... When I was 12 I spent the whole 4th of July lighting firecrackers from a punk. You think that it would get boring. On the very last cracker of the night, it detonated while still in my hand. I very cautiously brought the numb appendage over to a porch light and was relieved to see that all of my fingers were still there.
Fortunately, they were only the small 1/2 inchers from Macau.
Maybe that's why I have good feelings about JPP.